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Thread: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

  1. #1
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    Default Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Hi guys,

    It was suggested that now that I've started actually building rather than talking about building, I should create a build thread. So here goes.

    This is where I'll post stuff on my first ever boat, a Welsford navigator sloop. My goal is a reasonably fast cruiser that we can easily trailer to interesting spots, with enough room aboard for overnight trips.

    First thing I did was make a model from the plans, to gain some familiarity with them and try out a centerboard mod that I'd like to do, based on http://lukefoster.com/dauntless/

    The process I followed was straightforward - draw the bulkheads and spine using straight lines and arcs, then pull them to make 3d sheets, position each part in 3d where it will end up, and then draw arcs between the bulkheads where the stringers will go. Then I sectioned the arcs and made triangles to represent the planking. It's hard work with sketchup, as there is no spline tool and you can't pull a curved surface, but with patience and perseverence you can make a pretty decent model. Here's an early pic showing much of the hidden detail that allows me to model curves from straight lines:



    And here's where the model is now:



    The navigator has such pretty lines. This shows my proposed centerboard case mods, as well as a slimmed down rowing thwart and missing rear thwart. My plan is to open up the cockpit a little, create a more comfortable place to row from, and also give me somewhere to put a sleeping bag on the floor...

    A cutaway shows some of the construction detail:



    So yesterday I went and bought some ply, and ordered epoxy and filler. I took the ply home and went to work on the spine:





    It's been a really long time since I've done woodwork. I'm loving it.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Suzy hi, I admire your abilities with sketchup. Dunno if the cat will appreciate going sailing though. Now can you just run me by the reason you feel the need to mod the centreboard?

  3. #3
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    Default

    I love the Navigator design so I'll enjoy following this thread. Go well with the build and keep up with the photos.


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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Wonderful to see you've made a start Suzie, I'm really looking forward to following your build
    Larks

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    Suzy hi, I admire your abilities with sketchup. Dunno if the cat will appreciate going sailing though. Now can you just run me by the reason you feel the need to mod the centreboard?
    I'm thinking my actual cat will enjoy sleeping forward of bulkhead 1, where he can ambush me while I'm working. Sailing, not so much.

    The centerboard stuff has got its own thread.

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...reboard-design

    In summary, I don't fancy sitting on the tall centerboard case to row, so plan on reworking the centerboard a little to lower the case. Dauntless (http://lukefoster.com/dauntless/) also has a modified centerboard, and appears to go pretty well...

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Nice work! When lowering all or parts of the CB case, be aware that this sort of mod can put the top below the outside waterline when heavily loaded with gear, crew -- or when heeled over. That means water inside the boat. Don't ask me how I know this...
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Hi Suzy--I'll be watching this build. I am working on a Pathfinder. Good luck and please be gentle as you pass my slow progress!
    “It doesn’t matter how slowly you go -- so long as you do not stop.”
    -Confucius

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Congrats on your start. I really like the navigator/pathfinder boats. If I hadn't already started my Fulmar, I'd probably be building one too. In looking at the model on your blog, just one thing you may already know. Your centerboard uphaul seems to be attached to your mast but you will need to pull the mast for trailering while still keeping the centerboard hauled.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Well done. Regarding sleeping aboard, I think I once saw or read that you can use plywood cutouts that fill in the space inside the forward seating area to get a forward sleeping platform. Depends on how tall you are, but just a thought. Might be worth measuring it on your model. Weight is good low down, but off the floor is usually cleaner.

    Ed

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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    My blog about my time as a boat building student, a rigger apprentice and Journeyman http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/

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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    That's a very attractive little sloop and a nice size. I'll be looking forward to this.
    Chuck Thompson

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by John How View Post
    Congrats on your start. I really like the navigator/pathfinder boats. If I hadn't already started my Fulmar, I'd probably be building one too. In looking at the model on your blog, just one thing you may already know. Your centerboard uphaul seems to be attached to your mast but you will need to pull the mast for trailering while still keeping the centerboard hauled.
    Ooh! Good point. I haven't really thought the mast arrangement through very much yet, as building it is a long way away. Given the mast height is 6.1m, and my garage is 5.5m long, I imagine I'll have to be splitting it at some point to get things to fit. Perhaps the go would be to split it just under the boom, that way the stump could stay permanently attached to the boat, holding the centerboard up, and the rest would be shorter than 5.5m.

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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Now I see where the term "catboat" comes from.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Good catch John. You can't get anything by these guys.
    Chuck Thompson

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    What a sweet project!

    Can you post a pic of the model with the whole rig?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop



    I love this angle... it looks narrower and less "stumpy" in the bow... than other drawings I have seen of this design. The plumb stem is hidden in this perspective... It really looks sweet here...

    A little water ballast and you have an extremely capable design... obviously not a raid boat that can be rowed....but so nice and capable of carrying plenty of sail.
    Sweet!!!


    RodB

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Bit more progress on the weekend. I cut out bulkheads 1 and 2, along with their doublers, and started on bulkhead 3.

    I deviated from John's plans here with the doublers. John's plans are very economical on plywood. I was shockingly wasteful, cutting out whole bulkheads from both 9 and 6mm ply, then cutting away most of the 9mm ply to make doublers.



    I figure it'll make assembling more straightforward and will make it cleaner and easier to paint and clean.

    My cat's not impressed.



    It becomes 3D (and starts to take up significant room) quite quickly.




    Finally here's a picture showing the whole model thus far, including some crude sails.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    I'm going to watch this ! Not only are you great at Sketchup but you are off to a flying start on you build ..... and I really like John Welsford's work .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Second weekend of work. I finished bulkhead 3 (actually I started again after I found a stuff-up in the original piece), did bulkhead 4, bulkhead 5, doublers for the spine under the mast step, the centerboard case sides, and got the timber together for laminating the centerboard case itself.

    Here's how I'm doing the join between the back of the spine and the front of the centerboard case. I want to ensure the centerboard case won't move tip over when there are big loads on the board, so I've locked the front of it into the spine doublers, through bulkhead 4.



    The sides of the centerboard case are 6mm ply. I'll construct the rest from "Tasmanian oak", which is neither Tasmanian nor oak, but is nice timber.

    I'm doing the centerboard itself from laminations of western red cedar, which smells lovely but dings easily. I've got a bloody big chunk of jarrah on the leading edge which I'll use to bludgeon anything that gets under the boat. I reckon that 30mm of jarrah accounts for about 30% of the weight of the centerboard thus far.



    Here's what the whole lot is looking like thus far, after about 30 hours work:

    Last edited by suzyj; 05-11-2014 at 03:49 AM.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    This is going to be very enjoyable build..thanks for documenting it here. On your blog, those appear to be some very high quality bike frames to boot! It's very nice to have such talented people on board.

    Oh, and as I build away on my back verandah, I must say I am also very envious of your workshop!!
    Flat bottomed boats, you make the rockin' world go round.............

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Looking good! Nice progress.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Looks good, but when are you going to be painting the black spots on the cat? Must follow the plans carefully, you know. I don't think an all-white cat is going to cut it.

    Tom
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  24. #24
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Looks good, but when are you going to be painting the black spots on the cat? Must follow the plans carefully, you know. I don't think an all-white cat is going to cut it.

    Tom
    I never was any good at following plans.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    It'd be nice if you keep track of the number of hours you rack up.

    Good luck and I'll check in regularly on your thread.
    R
    R
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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Gads, my thread has fallen off the first page.

    I've done a bit of work over the last few weeks. I restored a nice Stanley no. 4 plane, had a horrid time trying to get lead out of an old battery (I ended up buying flashing for most of my lead, as the battery route is just way too messy), and laminated the my centerboard together, with my 5kg lead brick in the middle. Sounds so easy when I write it like that.

    Here's the lead brick. No pictures of the process of making it, because I'm really not proud of that.



    Here's the super secret "let's hide a chunk of lead in the centerboard" photo:



    And here's the whole lot gooped up with bote cote epoxy and glue powder, using up most of my clamps:



    I've been gluing doublers to bulkheads, too:



    I can see the two things limiting build speed are the total area of horizontal surface on which to put things while they set up, and the total number of clamps at your disposal. Every time I visit the hardware store I leave with another half dozen clamps. I can see I'm going to have many dozen by the time I'm done.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Suzy, you are doing an outstanding job there, wonderful!

    May I suggest that you test the weighting of the centerboard before installing it, being such light wood its going to need more weight than it would otherwise need.
    My suggestion is that you built it to to the undercoat stage, including coating the hole for the pin, put a rope through it and take it down to the wharf and lower it over the side. If it floats, then you need to put more weight in there, sorry to say you'd be melting more lead but hey, practice makes perfect. Tyre balance weights from the tyre people might be a good source, a half dozen tinnies on a hot friday afternoon is a good persuader.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    An easier way to make a centerboard "brick" is to cut out the cavity with a jigsaw, fill it to the brim with lead shot, then pour in epoxy to seal. The surfaces on both sides can be sanded smooth and flush with the surrounding wood.

    For anyone in the Puget Sound area, Non Ferrous Metals Inc. sells "reclaimed" lead shot at a relatively reasonable price.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by suzyj View Post
    I can see the two things limiting build speed are the total area of horizontal surface on which to put things while they set up, and the total number of clamps at your disposal. Every time I visit the hardware store I leave with another half dozen clamps. I can see I'm going to have many dozen by the time I'm done.
    I was expecting to buy a lot of clamps, but found that just using screws to hold parts for gluing worked fine. Most of the screws are left in, they are not visible. Planks got temporary screws with holes filled later. Bright finished boats may need clamps, but a painted Welsford not so much. With screws, all the bulkheads with doublers can cure up on the floor with weights to keep them flat.

    Rick

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    Suzy, you are doing an outstanding job there, wonderful!

    May I suggest that you test the weighting of the centerboard before installing it, being such light wood its going to need more weight than it would otherwise need.
    My suggestion is that you built it to to the undercoat stage, including coating the hole for the pin, put a rope through it and take it down to the wharf and lower it over the side. If it floats, then you need to put more weight in there, sorry to say you'd be melting more lead but hey, practice makes perfect. Tyre balance weights from the tyre people might be a good source, a half dozen tinnies on a hot friday afternoon is a good persuader.

    John Welsford
    This is my motivation to get the foil nice and slender. Otherwise I'll have to add lead, and I really don't want to go there again. I calculated my slightly modified board has about 70% of the volume of the standard one, so my 5kg of lead is equivalent to around 7kg in the standard board...

    Great idea about sinking it on a bit of rope to be sure it sinks. I'll definitely do that.

    Today I let my OCD take over, and planed until I couldn't plane any more. I think I sharpened the iron about five times. Here's my trusty Stanley no. 4 near the start of my descent into madness:



    And here's the pile of shavings I made today:



    The foil is most of the way there. I'll remove a little more material in the coming days.





    Anyway, for now I'm well and truly knackered.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Impressive ! You're much more patient than me and that's why my motor plane covers my shop in horrible little chips .... but I do finish with a No.4

    Nicely done !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    More work on the centerboard.

    I finished shaping it, added an uphaul pivot made from jarrah, then added strips of 200 gsm unidirectional carbon fibre, for strength and some 400 gsm fibreglass tape down the leading edge for abrasion resistance.



    Then I gooped it with epoxy and went at it with 80 grit emery:



    Yesterday I put the first coat of undercoat on. While waiting for the various layers of epoxy to dry I fabbed up the case. This is frames with 42x19 Tasmanian oak, with 6mm ply sides. It's held together with no less than 48 8g bronze screws.



    The pivot isn't done yet - the 10mm hole in the board is just for mocking things up. I've bought some 19mm ID, 25mm OD bronze flanges that I'll epoxy in the board, then stick a 19mm OD, 12mm ID bronze tube in that as the pivot, and secure the lot with a 12mm stainless bolt.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by suzyj View Post



    The navigator has such pretty lines. This shows my proposed centerboard case mods, as well as a slimmed down rowing thwart and missing rear thwart. My plan is to open up the cockpit a little, create a more comfortable place to row from, and also give me somewhere to put a sleeping bag on the floor...
    Just on the subject of modification - one thing that has me scratching my head is that none built (that I know of) have changes to the gap between bulkhead five (front of cb case) and bulkhead three.
    I wonder, is there something I'm missing, thinking that perhaps carrying the side seat a bit forward of bulkhead five may be an option, with an arc to the seat, and for some extra dry storage.
    I am currently wrapping up the cad drawings for a 105% navigator build, and I am tempted to reduce the openness of that particular space. I really should email John, but anyways.....Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Sayla; 06-17-2014 at 04:12 AM.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Dauntless extended the seats about 10cm forward of bulkhead 5.

    I reckon you could go as far forward as you like. Especially if you don't have the forward thwart extending back along the centerboard case, like in the plans.

    I quite like a bit of open hull. I can see myself keeping a couple of ortlieb stuff sacks in that space.

    a 105% navigator sounds quite cool. I reckon it might be fun to scale up even further vertically.
    Last edited by suzyj; 06-17-2014 at 08:22 AM.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Elena, a Welsford Navigator cruising sloop

    Great craftmanship!
    Don't worry I'm happy

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    Justice is sometimes harder to achieve."

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