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Thread: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    Boats are still built without epoxy. Good, cost effective, beautiful, hardworking boats. Not that you would know by reading the (ply)wooden boat forum. Or looking at the "launchings" section of the magazine.

    Some days I think its good because it leaves the local boatbuilding woods for those of us who need them.

    Most days I just think its sad.
    If there was such a thing as cost effective, local boat building wood in my area (and the rest of the middle of the country) I suspect the picture would be different. It was a bit of a shock when I found out I literally cannot get clear, straight grained softwood without having it shipped from 500+ miles away. For example, I called every single yard for 100+ miles around. Not a single one carries Douglas fir. If I want to build anything out of rot prone hardwoods then I'm good to go. The middle of the U.S. is the land of professional furniture makers, not professional boat builders, and that's where a lot of those small boat builders live.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Junkyard Dog, I've had exactly the opposite experience with MAX BOND epoxy aka polymer composites. I've used four types of epoxy very happily on this project, but that stuff you mention was very thick even when warmed and its strength left a lot to be desired. U.S. Composites is a much better deal and it's a pleasure to use. West was the nicest, but pricey.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Capefox,

    That's very interesting. I'm in Houston where it's typically pretty warm to begin with, but I agree that the even the low viscosity resin is pretty thick. that said, I've had no issues with wetting out and fiberglassing.

    The company recommends thinning with acetone up to 5% for sealing wood, which I've done with good results. I've not thinned any for fiberglassing. As for the strength, I've not experienced any issues, but as stated above I've not done any direct comparison tests with other products.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    I worked with MAX BOND/Polymer Composites resin in temperatures ranging from 40 F to 105 F and found it virtually unusable below 70 F. Heating the bottles in hot water or warming the workpieces with a heat gun helped make it more viscous, but as you say it is substantially thicker than the RAKA, U.S. Composites, and West epoxies. Thinning the epoxy with acetone will make it more viscous, but I've heard that when the solvent evaporates during the curing process it will create pores or pits in the epoxy -- weaker and less resistant to moisture. Perhaps some engineer can confirm this for me. Still, if were stuck with a big order of it, I would take that route to make it workable. If the moisture can get in it can get out, right (assuming the boat spends much of its time out of the water)?

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Ditto Paul's epoxy.
    Chuck Thompson

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by capefox View Post
    I worked with MAX BOND/Polymer Composites resin in temperatures ranging from 40 F to 105 F and found it virtually unusable below 70 F. Heating the bottles in hot water or warming the workpieces with a heat gun helped make it more viscous, but as you say it is substantially thicker than the RAKA, U.S. Composites, and West epoxies. Thinning the epoxy with acetone will make it more viscous, but I've heard that when the solvent evaporates during the curing process it will create pores or pits in the epoxy -- weaker and less resistant to moisture. Perhaps some engineer can confirm this for me. Still, if were stuck with a big order of it, I would take that route to make it workable. If the moisture can get in it can get out, right (assuming the boat spends much of its time out of the water)?
    Well there you have me. I haven't attempted to work with it below 70 degrees. If it's colder than that here in Houston, it's probably raining and I pretty much have to work outside in the driveway. If it's raining, I'm working on something else or napping...

    As for the thinner, I think any epoxy should be thinned with a solvent that evaporates extremely quickly. This gets rid of the solvent before the curing process really gets started. Acetone and MEK are the most used I believe. I use small amounts of Acetone because MEK is extremely toxic.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by capefox View Post
    I worked with MAX BOND/Polymer Composites resin in temperatures ranging from 40 F to 105 F and found it virtually unusable below 70 F. Heating the bottles in hot water or warming the workpieces with a heat gun helped make it more viscous, but as you say it is substantially thicker than the RAKA, U.S. Composites, and West epoxies. Thinning the epoxy with acetone will make it more viscous, but I've heard that when the solvent evaporates during the curing process it will create pores or pits in the epoxy -- weaker and less resistant to moisture. Perhaps some engineer can confirm this for me. Still, if were stuck with a big order of it, I would take that route to make it workable. If the moisture can get in it can get out, right (assuming the boat spends much of its time out of the water)?
    I assume you mean less viscous. The higher the viscosity, the thicker the liquid. Lower viscosity means runnier. Viscosity almost always lowers with increasing temperature.

    Cheers,

    Bobby

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiefan View Post
    I assume you mean less viscous. The higher the viscosity, the thicker the liquid. Cheers,
    Bobby
    Right, you are. I confused myself.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Good thing that my new project doesn't need any epoxy.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Epoxy use makes boatbuilding CHEAPER.
    It allows for the use of less than top quality timber and galv instead of bronze.
    how much sandpaper, awl grip, etc, one wants to use ...

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Wizbang makes sense. Would you say that strip planking is another economical approach though? I'm talking WRC strips glued together with TiteBond and glassed on both sides as Schade Suggests.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by capefox View Post
    Wizbang makes sense. Would you say that strip planking is another economical approach though? I'm talking WRC strips glued together with TiteBond and glassed on both sides as Schade Suggests.
    WRC is nice because it's lightweight but you can strip build with many, many, woods. Depending on where you are Redwood or some other light softwoods or even lighter something like Paulownia can be found quite cheap.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    What makes epoxy for marine use exclusive?
    If one were to build a larger boat and uses 50-60 gallons, it is possible to order a batch from factories for cheaper price.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    In industry, ie/ boat building, carbon fibre & epoxy are used. They definitely purchase epoxy in 45 gallons contents. They have a different price, not retail.
    Last edited by sailcanoefan; 06-19-2017 at 04:02 PM.
    ''The work is teaching you the work'' : Bernard Moitessier.

    Single-handed Sailor, 1968-1969 Golden Globe Challenge, 1st around the world sailing race.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Save money: Don't build a boat.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Epoxy is expensive because they are charging a premium to people who want to build a boat "out of a can."

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    "Adding solvent is a quick, simple method of thinning epoxy, but unlike using heat to thin it, the strength and moisture resistance of the cured epoxy are drastically affected."

    "The addition of more than 5% solvent results in an excessively flexible cured material. Thinning epoxy with solvent causes enough loss of strength that we (and most other reputable epoxy formulators) cannot recommend using it as a structural adhesive."

    These are from a technical paper from Gougeon Brothers, based on their tests. Considering that they well may be the only folks doing this sort of testing as it may relate to epoxy boatbuilding, anyone considering home-brew thinning their epoxy would be wise to read and understand the article before doing so. It can certainly be done, but there will be some trade-offs to consider.

    http://epoxyworks.com/index.php/thin...-system-epoxy/

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Epoxy Resin, $99 a Gallon Plus Resin? Que? What are some "Natural" Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim907 View Post
    Okay, so now that they are just now pulling the defibrillator off my chest from me having just heard that epoxy resin goes for at least $100 a gallon, it leaves me in aftershock. I will not mention any names of any specific ship's chandlery, however, I just got off the phone with me mates over there at "Best Sardine."

    After you stick and glue her and puddy in the epoxy paste along your seams, what are your natural alternatives, or, as you are putting fiberglass sheets and fiberglass tape, that is the process, so they sort of have you by the monkey fists, all do respects, of course.

    You clever old salts, what else could lay over that fiberglass sheet? $99 is just one gallon, and that would just about do the plywood duck that I made for my bathtub.
    The natural alternative is to build a boat with chine logs, so it doesn't require much goo. If you're going to build stitch & goo, you have to bey epoxy.

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