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Thread: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

  1. #1
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    Default Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Or will they break their treaty with the Ukraine?

    A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if President Putin's troops cross into the country.
    Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine - agreed to the The Budapest Memorandum as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
    Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2um62TnBu

    Ukraine pleads for Britain and US to come to its rescue as Russia accused of 'invasion'
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-invasion.html

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    No.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    The USA? With 0 as CiC?
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

    Grieving love unsaid. | Tomorrow will fail someday. | Tell them today, OK?

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    No.
    There is no treaty. Treaties must be approved by Congress.
    A "memorandum" was signed by the US, UK, and Russia.
    Not sure what constitutes a memorandum, or what the legalities are.
    Last edited by Jim Bow; 03-01-2014 at 11:01 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Hope not. The main goal of getting nukes out of the Ukraine has long happened. There's a long and confusing history down in that area but right now the parts where Russia is posturing are the parts that turn towards Russia and are rejecting the provisional government anyway. Bad stuff happens in nations that let their ethnic tensions get the upper hand and that's where Ukraine is at just now. If Russia acts to protect civilians from some form of terror, not a bad thing. If, as is probably more likely given Putin, Russia uses this as a way to annex part of the Ukraine, a part that was a thousand or so years ago the real start and heart of the Russian kingdom, then things will get very messy.

    But western military intervention is nuts. Even if we had a clue as to how to make things better, which we have not, there is no way we can get armed forces into any useful position.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    I would hardly think so.

    But the more Putin follows his own agenda tactically, the worse off for Russia strategically, as in reduced business investment, etc.

    Putin has allowed his KGB innards to get control of his faculties. Obama told him already that we recognize their strategic interests and there are venues for hashing it all out. Putin's willful actions will not play well in the UN.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Would you like that?

    Wars offer a great many business opportunities.

    Just ask Dick Cheney.

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    What would Romney have done?
    Not go to war I'd say. Maybe look at the business side though………………..

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Will Geng find peace?

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Need to keep an eye on the situation. if Russia escalates the crisis with drone strikes,, rendition, water boarding, collateral damage,.....then something must be done.

    I see a russia ship has just made a port call in Cuba..they say to pick up supplies...perhaps surplus water boards.

    Be alert

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by slug View Post
    Need to keep an eye on the situation. if Russia escalates the crisis with drone strikes,, rendition, water boarding, collateral damage,.....then something must be done.

    I see a russia ship has just made a port call in Cuba..they say to pick up supplies...perhaps surplus water boards.

    Be alert
    Irony becomes you slug…………..

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Would you like that?

    Wars offer a great many business opportunities.

    Just ask Dick Cheney.
    It's pretty obvious Russia doesn't have any Weapons of Mass Destruction otherwise the Right would be baying for war.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    I certainly hope not, Geng.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    The USA? With 0 as CiC?
    0, you say?
    You just aren't used to a Commander in Chief who might consider diplomacy as a primary tool.

    Your heros lie and provoke to get into battle for the riches, while pushing our youth into the meat grinder.

    Obama has his hands full keeping the hawks off the lawn, screeching for blood.
    Study Peace

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    There is no treaty, nothing was ever ratified by the Senate. There is simply a memorandum of understanding, surely no military obligation.

    This is moronic, are you really pining for WWIII? Nuclear holocaust? You had better damned well hope that "O" does nothing.
    Steve Martinsen

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    The solution seems simple, however. Just as Czechoslovakia did after the Soviet Union collapsed; form two separate countries. The West with it's cultural ties can go the path to the EU, the East with it's Russian ties can align with Russia. People seem to be as politically and culturally gregarious as cattle at feeding time.

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by HeliPilot View Post
    The solution seems simple, however. Just as Czechoslovakia did after the Soviet Union collapsed; form two separate countries. The West with it's cultural ties can go the path to the EU, the East with it's Russian ties can align with Russia. People seem to be as politically and culturally gregarious as cattle at feeding time.
    You are assuming Putin will go along with having 2 countries.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    True, but even a former KGB agent with natural 'hawkish' tendencies must realize that dealing with some sort of on-going insurrection in western Ukraine would not be in Russia's, or anyone else's, best interests.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Gee...what about the Hungarian Ukrainians...will they get their own country to ?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    If Putin wants to put himself, his military, political and financial assets in the midst of a civil war, let him. He learned as much from Russia's experience in Afghanistan as we learned from ours in Vietnam - nothing.
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    If Putin wants to put himself, his military, political and financial assets in the midst of a civil war, let him. He learned as much from Russia's experience in Afghanistan as we learned from ours in Vietnam - nothing.
    The Ukraine is mostly open spaces easy to control.
    Afghanistan is mostly mountains hard to control.
    Vietnam is mostly jungle also hard to control.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Query: would Medvedev have pulled this? For some reason I think he is more rational than Putin.

    The more Putin pushes, the greater the blowback economically and diplomatically. It's not going to be fun to be Russian for awhile.
    Gerard>
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    RESIST. FIGHT THE POWER.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    The Ukraine is mostly open spaces easy to control.
    Afghanistan is mostly mountains hard to control.
    Vietnam is mostly jungle also hard to control
    Geography isn't demographics. I see you've learned nothing as well.
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by slug View Post

    Be alert
    There are already too many lert's in the world.
    Stay calm, be brave....wait for the signs. Possibly precariously prevaricating.
    .

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    I heard on the BBC that America may retaliate with the Magnitsky Act, applying it to Russian politicians who authorized the intrusion into Ukraine

    G8 meeting in Russia looks canceled.

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    I hope not, we haven't the forces to do anything.

    It appears to me that Putin has defined his own version of the Monroe Doctrine, Russia can do whatever it deems necessary within it's sphere of influence.

    Nick

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    If Russia enters the Ukraine lets invade Cuba.
    We get beaches and rum, and it's all 90 miles from Key West.

    Seems like a good trade.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    No, the US and UK will not go to war with Russia. What are you, crazy?

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    bump

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    No, the US and UK will not go to war with Russia. What are you, crazy?
    I also do not think the US or the UK will go to war with Russia.

    I just wonder now many people knew we had a treaty (or agreement) with the Ukraine and the world is going to view us as weak and not trustworthy.

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    I also do not think the US or the UK will go to war with Russia.

    I just wonder now many people knew we had a treaty (or agreement) with the Ukraine and the world is going to view us as weak and not trustworthy.
    The world already views the US as untrustworthy. Unless you meant you personally

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Accidental war is the danger but I wouldn't put it past Putin to stage a 'Gulf of Tonkin' type charade to justify interference. In fact he may have already. I don't think shooting war will not be to the Ukranian's advantage in the long term but it depends on whether they are content to be patient. Russia may be working on the 'possession is 9/10 of the law' principle.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    The notion that we and the Brits would have obligated ourselves to go to war for Ukraine shows a slim grasp of how things work. asking how medvedev would have handled this is really telling. Medvedev was holding the seat for Putin.

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    Default Re: Will the US and the UK go to war with Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    If Russia enters the Ukraine lets invade Cuba.
    We get beaches and rum, and it's all 90 miles from Key West.

    Seems like a good trade.
    You tried that once and blew it.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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