Oz Politics.

[Lugs]

Peta and News Corp...well there's an unbiased news source.

I guess it was too much to hope that someone would actually look at the issue.

I've actually learnt a bit on this thread. mr Hallam's personal information on Pell added to my knowledge. I'd not heard that the ABC had admitted their fault on the Alice town meeting... which they didn't point out had attracted an audience of 3,000... until I was pointed to Peta by someone. Maybe you should widen your news scan?

[WX]

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...-battered-town

[skuthorp]

It's been boiling up since 1788 Gary, and exasservated by generations of misunderstanding deliberate and otherwise. It won't cool down very easily. It's not a problem that can be arrested away. In fact it may spread.
Ever heard the word Karma?

[WX]

We're just another bunch of whitfellas claiming we know what is best for a bunch of blackfellas , who probably haven't been asked what they think.

[Lugs]

We're just another bunch of whitfellas claiming we know what is best for a bunch of blackfellas , who probably haven't been asked what they think.

It's a ten year old figure of Warren Mundine's (checked as right by Factcheck) that we were spending over $30 billion a year on half a million indigenous people. More than twice as much as on the wider Oz population.

Here's a thought... let's fund all these remote settlements a set amount. Gather the names of all the adults, count 'em up.... funds supplied to some VoICE organisation (eg like a local council, that they organise themselves) in that area... and yeah, fund 'em at double the Australian average... and they organise how, when and where those funds are spent. Run out of funds.... tough. They say that they have the answers... let 'em deliver the solutions. Time for them to pee or get off the pot.

[WX]

It's a ten year old figure of Warren Mundine's (checked as right by Factcheck) that we were spending over $30 billion a year on half a million indigenous people. More than twice as much as on the wider Oz population.

Here's a thought... let's fund all these remote settlements a set amount. Gather the names of all the adults, count 'em up.... funds supplied to some VoICE organisation (eg like a local council, that they organise themselves) in that area... and yeah, fund 'em at double the Australian average... and they organise how, when and where those funds are spent. Run out of funds.... tough. They say that they have the answers... let 'em deliver the solutions. Time for them to pee or get off the pot.

How about asking them first? That's just white guys telling them what to do again.
Also what's with the weird spelling of VoICE?

[Lugs]

How about asking them first? That's just white guys telling them what to do again.
Also what's with the weird spelling of VoICE?

Telling them what to do? Hell no, it's saying "here... take double what we spend, sort out your priorities, spend it wisely, because you know best"

Weird spelling? Not weird at all. A racist proposal is most certainly a VICE.

This whole VoICE thing is at the worst end of the nationalistic debate. If we want to survive as a species, nationalistic behaviour has to go. We are one people on one planet. Dividing the people by race, religion or even nationality is a nonsense.

[Lugs]

How about asking them first? That's just white guys telling them what to do again.
Also what's with the weird spelling of VoICE?

Let's add to that.

There are multiple indigenous bodies and voices advising the Government but that perhaps the reason they feel they need the VoICE is because the advice on what is really needed doesn’t gel with their lefty whitefella ideals and they don’t want to hear it.

It’s not Whitefella voices who are trying to direct Indigenous policy - it’s Blackfella voices and they are being ignored......perhaps the ultimate example of racism really, after all what would they know, we know better, eh?

Here’s an example of who is currently available to the Gov’t to advise them on Indig’ issues and policies:

· Human Rights Committee
· Torres Strait Regional Authority
· Murdi Paaki Regional Assembly
· Prime Minister’s Indigenous Advisory Council
· ACT Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Elected Body
· National Aboriginal Community Controlled Health Organisation
· National Congress of Australia’s First Peoples
· Prescribed Bodies Corporate
· Aboriginal Land Councils (multiple Australia wide)

Within Parliament, we have:

· Senator Dorinda Cox, Western Australia
· Senator Patrick Dodson, Western Australia
· Senator Jacqui Lambie, Tasmania
· Senator Kerrynne Liddle, South Australia
· Senator the Hon Malarndirri McCarthy, Northern Territory
· Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, Northern Territory
· Senator Jana Stewart, Victoria
· Senator Lidia Thorpe, Victoria
· The Hon Linda Burney MP, Member for Barton
· Dr Gordon Reid, Member for Robertson
· Ms Marion Scrymgour, Member for Lingiari

The reality is that there is an incredible level of frustration within the NT at Albo and NT Chief Minister Fyle's commitment to ignoring the legitimate Indigenous voices in Alice and Darwin - ie Indig elders and community leaders - who are screaming for direct action. It is palpable. They completely ignored everything that was told them on Albo’s flit into the Alice where he didn’t even bother getting out to meet with anyone in the community but met only with a hand-picked group - all of whom he and Fyles have so far ignored anyway.....

Does that help explain the spelling of VoICE?

[WX]

The reality is that there is an incredible level of frustration within the NT at Albo and NT Chief Minister Fyle's commitment to ignoring the legitimate Indigenous voices in Alice and Darwin - ie Indig elders and community leaders - who are screaming for direct action. It is palpable. They completely ignored everything that was told them on Albo’s flit into the Alice where he didn’t even bother getting out to meet with anyone in the community but met only with a hand-picked group - all of whom he and Fyles have so far ignored anyway....

Did you miss the bit where I mentioned white people ignoring black people?

[Lugs]

Did you miss the bit where I mentioned white people ignoring black people?

Can you bring yourself to admitting that includes the proponents of the VoICE?

[Lugs]

Just to clear this up, if the Labor Federal and State Governments, your “white people” who most need to listen, can’t or won’t listen to all of those informed Indigenous voices available now, what on earth difference could another “voice” make to anyone other than to allow Albo to virtue signal what a great bloke he is (and perhaps to give a bunch of middle class urban Aboriginal mates of the Labor Gov't another handsome pay-cheque)?

Then again, maybe this VoICE will replace all those other organisations?

[WX]

Can you bring yourself to admitting that includes the proponents of the VoICE?

That's just tin foil hat conspiracy theory stuff. I imagine Dutton believes it though.

[WX]

Compassion. In all of the discussion about the Indigenous Constitutional Voice that is the one word missing. In all of the column inches, in the voices on the airwaves where is compassion?On Q+A this week we devoted an hour to the many and varied views on the Voice, from no to yes, from sovereignty and treaty to justice and law and politics, but not once did anyone utter the word compassion.
Without compassion how can we begin to bear the weight of Australia's great sin? How can we begin to move toward healing, truth or forgiveness without first compassion?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-...eded/101928250

[Lugs]

That's just tin foil hat conspiracy theory stuff. I imagine Dutton believes it though.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. What is tinfoil conspiracy stuff? The fact that there are a massive number of voices to Parliament already? Can you please endeavour to enlighten me on what you're talking about?

[Lugs]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-...eded/101928250

That is a woeful piece from Stan. The telling part of the story is that the largest image accompanying his "pity me" piece is that the largest image is of Superstud Stan. Says it all.

Compassion has been the overwhelming factor in "invader"/indigenous relations since 1788 and still is. The fact that Stan focuses on making the VoICE vote one about compassion, rather than giving any consideration to the wider arguments shows that he thinks the referendum is in trouble. He's looking for pity rather than consideration of what needs to be done in order for indigenous people to be able to close the gap themselves. Give me, rather than, look out, here I come.

[WX]

That is a woeful piece from Stan. The telling part of the story is that the largest image accompanying his "pity me" piece is that the largest image is of Superstud Stan. Says it all.

Compassion has been the overwhelming factor in "invader"/indigenous relations since 1788 and still is. The fact that Stan focuses on making the VoICE vote one about compassion, rather than giving any consideration to the wider arguments shows that he thinks the referendum is in trouble. He's looking for pity rather than consideration of what needs to be done in order for indigenous people to be able to close the gap themselves. Give me, rather than, look out, here I come.

spilling-spits.jpg

[Lugs]

So, Gary, the hundreds of years of charitable acts towards the less fortunate in the indigenous communities, they weren't acts of compassion?

Sure - there were massacres a century and more ago. Both sides. They died, along with your grandfather's era. Move on, or get classed as a dinosaur.

I give everyone a fair go, until I see them trying to stiff me. Lidia Thorpe got reclassified by me, as soon as she stuck her hand out and said "pay up". A bit like the Lismore flood "victims". Absolutely no-one who has bought in Lismore could be unaware of the flood history. What is it now, something like 35 major floods since 1885? Now they want the public to to pay? Buy cheap, then plead compassion? Is that the go these days?

Meanwhile... from the ABC, even they have realised how much of a dud Albo is...

Shadow Attorney-General Julian Leeser, a leading supporter of the Voice to Parliament among Liberal ranks, said Mr Albanese's comments were disappointing.
"He's made this issue into a political one by talking about culture wars. The prime minister needs to convince not castigate, his job as our national leader is to explain and persuade.
"Detail builds confidence, detail actually helps the proponents."
Mr Leeser said the questions posed by Mr Dutton were ones he commonly received when talking to ordinary Australians, and would have to be answered for people to be convinced to support the Voice.
Liberal frontbencher Paul Fletcher said the prime minister should focus on answering the Opposition's questions, rather than making attacks.
"It's not unreasonable to say, 'OK, how is it going to work? What are the details going to be?'," he said.
"And it is curious he is now going down this alternative line of argument, which is to say, 'Oh, well, it's all right-wing extremists on social media.'
"Let's put the political rhetoric to one side, let's come together in good faith."

[WX]

So, Gary, the hundreds of years of charitable acts towards the less fortunate in the indigenous communities, they weren't acts of compassion?

Sure - there were massacres a century and more ago. Both sides. They died, along with your grandfather's era. Move on, or get classed as a dinosaur.

I give everyone a fair go, until I see them trying to stiff me. Lidia Thorpe got reclassified by me, as soon as she stuck her hand out and said "pay up". A bit like the Lismore flood "victims". Absolutely no-one who has bought in Lismore could be unaware of the flood history. What is it now, something like 35 major floods since 1885? Now they want the public to to pay? Buy cheap, then plead compassion? Is that the go these days?

Meanwhile... from the ABC, even they have realised how much of a dud Albo is...

The Coniston massacre, which took place in the region around the Coniston cattle station in the then Territory of Central Australia (now the Northern Territory) from 14 August to 18 October 1928, was the last known officially sanctioned massacre of Indigenous Australians and one of the last events of the Australian Frontier Wars.

Funny how no one expects the Jews to forget the Holocaust. Imagine the uproar if the Germans decided to dismantle the concentration camps and museums. And yet the Australian aborigines are expected to...just get over it.

A bit like the Lismore flood "victims". Absolutely no-one who has bought in Lismore could be unaware of the flood history. What is it now, something like 35 major floods since 1885? Now they want the public to to pay? Buy cheap, then plead compassion? Is that the go these days?

Are you saying that should apply to every town on a flood plain that was devastated by floods in 2022? What about bushfires Ian, nothing for the victims because they shouldn't have built in fire prone areas?
I am going to be polite and assume you are indulging in your usual well known trolling.

[Lugs]

Funny how no one expects the Jews to forget the Holocaust. Imagine the uproar if the Germans decided to dismantle the concentration camps and museums. And yet the Australian aborigines are expected to...just get over it.


Are you saying that should apply to every town on a flood plain that was devastated by floods in 2022? What about bushfires Ian, nothing for the victims because they shouldn't have built in fire prone areas?
I am going to be polite and assume you are indulging in your usual well known trolling.

Don't ever forget, but yes, get over - just like the world's Jews have. The current Indig have nothing they need to get over, except a percentage of the "stolen generation" who (some of) were taken into State care in a way that was inappropriate. Others, quite possibly a majority of them were saved from bad situation. I seem to remember that there are more Indig kids in state care now than there were in the "stolen generation" were. That's because the kids were in danger when taken into state care (are they stolen?).

Don't put words into my mouth, so to speak. I said Lismore... where everyone who has bought property there in the last 100 years knows that it floods every few years.

[Hallam]

As counter to Tony Abbots eulogy this is informative reading. (Let me know, if there is interest and I will post here the results of my looking into the US right wing connections referred to in passing in this article on Pell by a fellow seminarian)

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/...ls-sendoff#mtr

[WX]

Don't ever forget, but yes, get over - just like the world's Jews have. The current Indig have nothing they need to get over, except a percentage of the "stolen generation" who (some of) were taken into State care in a way that was inappropriate. Others, quite possibly a majority of them were saved from bad situation. I seem to remember that there are more Indig kids in state care now than there were in the "stolen generation" were. That's because the kids were in danger when taken into state care (are they stolen?).

Don't put words into my mouth, so to speak. I said Lismore... where everyone who has bought property there in the last 100 years knows that it floods every few years.

Council approved developments.

[WX]

Don't ever forget, but yes, get over - just like the world's Jews have. The current Indig have nothing they need to get over, except a percentage of the "stolen generation" who (some of) were taken into State care in a way that was inappropriate. Others, quite possibly a majority of them were saved from bad situation. I seem to remember that there are more Indig kids in state care now than there were in the "stolen generation" were. That's because the kids were in danger when taken into state care (are they stolen?).

Don't put words into my mouth, so to speak. I said Lismore... where everyone who has bought property there in the last 100 years knows that it floods every few years.

What garbage, bulldoze Auschwitz and see how over it they are. Germany has dealt with it's past, Australia has yet to do that. Several thousand people walking across Sydney harbour Bridge saying sorry doesn't really cut it.

[WX]

Don't put words into my mouth, so to speak. I said Lismore... where everyone who has bought property there in the last 100 years knows that it floods every few years.

Your focus on Lismore shows just how little you understand what happened last February.
BTW, what happened to your pub in Thailand, how come you are living in Coffs Harbour?

[Lugs]

Council approved developments.

In a known flood zone.

[Lugs]

What garbage, bulldoze Auschwitz and see how over it they are. Germany has dealt with it's past, Australia has yet to do that. Several thousand people walking across Sydney harbour Bridge saying sorry doesn't really cut it.

Your analogy is silly. There's nothing to bulldoze and we've dealt with our history. We've more than doubled, near tripled the life expectancy of Indig people. There's some things they need to do for themselves.

[Lugs]

Your focus on Lismore shows just how little you understand what happened last February.
BTW, what happened to your pub in Thailand, how come you are living in Coffs Harbour?

Do you need bank account details too? I'm in Sydney these days. Coffs is my connection to country.

[WX]

In a known flood zone.

Yep. NSW government planning dept over rides any objections to a development by local councils, that it wants to go ahead. Look it up.

[Lugs]

Yep. NSW government planning dept over rides any objections to a development by local councils, that it wants to go ahead. Look it up.

Are you trying to say that people didn't know Lismore was a flood zone? Caveat Emptor.

[WX]

Your analogy is silly. There's nothing to bulldoze and we've dealt with our history. We've more than doubled, near tripled the life expectancy of Indig people. There's some things they need to do for themselves.

I can see the analogy went right over your head.
Auschwitz still exists, the Russians even used it to hold political prisoners after the war.

[Lugs]

I can see the analogy went right over your head.
Auschwitz still exists, the Russians even used it to hold political prisoners after the war.

So spell it out. What is the link between Auschwitz buildings and Australia?

[WX]

Are you trying to say that people didn't know Lismore was a flood zone? Caveat Emptor.

Up until Feb 28 2022 most floods were manageable, though 2017 was bad. Feb 28 2022 was an order of magnitude far worse than any flood previous. It wasn't just Lismore though, it was every town, village etc on the Clarence, Richmond and the Tweed.
This lists some of areas affected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_e...stralia_floods
This lists more areas and states affected by devastating floods last year.
https://floodlist.com/australia/floo...-november-2022

[WX]

So spell it out. What is the link between Auschwitz buildings and Australia?

You claimed the Jews had gotten over the holocaust and moved on. I said, bulldoze Auschwitz and see how over it they are.

[Lugs]

Up until Feb 28 2022 most floods were manageable, though 2017 was bad. Feb 28 2022 was an order of magnitude far worse than any flood previous. It wasn't just Lismore though, it was every town, village etc on the Clarence, Richmond and the Tweed.
This lists some of areas affected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_e...stralia_floods
This lists more areas and states affected by devastating floods last year.
https://floodlist.com/australia/floo...-november-2022

https://lismore.nsw.gov.au/files/Lis..._1870-2017.pdf

Caveat Emptor

[WX]

I think we're done here.
Anyone else got something to talk about?

[Chip-skiff]

Is he back?