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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #27826
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    What does woke mean? I keep coming across it.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  2. #27827
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Trendy buzz word……….

    Usually used as a perjorative by the right as far as I can tell.

  3. #27828
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    There was a thread on it a while back. I hadn't heard it either. Kind of newly sensitive and aware. In a piss weak kind of way.

  4. #27829
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    "Woke, Late' sipping Chardonnay drinking…………"
    That's usually the context……………..

  5. #27830
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Language is an evolving beast……………'gay'…………….'imflammable'…………'liberal'……… …..'conservative'.
    And then there's the concept of the word 'lie', depends who you are talking about,politician or prole…………….
    I think more to the point the word 'fact' is up for debate these days....

    Lesson;
    Learning(s) means - predictable f#ck up(s). Just interchange those words and everything will make sense.

    Exercise;
    The collapse of social services due to under funding is a learning.
    The poor outcomes due to under funding services, persistent denigration and continual othering of social service recipients are learnings.

    See what i mean?



    ah - but you're talking about 'woke'....
    Someone for whom the penny has dropped and they want to tell everyone.

    In my experience it is also used somewhat pejoratively/cynically/jovially by the groups to whom someone has 'woken' up to.
    Last edited by gypsie; 05-21-2020 at 07:51 PM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  6. #27831
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Woke is a synonym for aware. Awareness is the state preceding panic or despair.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  7. #27832
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I participate in Flutracker. Flu infections seem to be very much lower this year than normal. It'll be interesting to see if that's affected much by easing of restrictions. I suspect it won't be much because there's so little international travel.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  8. #27833
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    So a heap of businesses wrote in the money they wanted for job keeper instead of the number of jobs they wanted supported. According to Patricia Karvelas this is a terrible error by the treasurer. Job keeper is going to cost 60 billion less than previously estimated. Patricia wants it spent anyway. Patricia thinks that the idea that this is actually good news is spin. The treasurer can’t be trusted and he ought to spend all that money to restore our trust.
    The woman is certifiable. Now Albanese is wanking on about it too.

  9. #27834
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Albanese is not supposed to say anything about a $60B accounting error?

    According to gov, 1000 employers overstated their job losses by 3,000,000. So that's 3,000/employer. Seems very likely .....
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  10. #27835
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Lib minister Littleproud says corporate Australia has lost its way, morally.

    Really ...
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  11. #27836
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I don’t think you could call it an accounting error. The treasurer made provisional estimate of the cost based on the numbers reported from the applications for jobkeeper. I hardly need point out that the treasurer didn’t read the forms himself. The numbers written in the box were scanned by a computer and he’s told 6.5 million applications.
    Turns out, when a human had a look it is 3.5 million.
    Albanese is looking for some place to be relevant, because there has been nothing to make him relevant for the last 2 months. He’s still not relevant, and should stick to the internal punchups over 1980s Labor reforms which have been occupying him.
    As to believability, just over 500 businesses seeking jobkeeper for 1 employee wrote 1500 (for dollars) instead of 1 for jobs. Some claimants for 2 jobs wrote 3000. There would only be 1000 odd such mistakes in amongst applications for 3.5 million jobkeeper claims, so it is perhaps not hard to see that it would take a while to identify.

  12. #27837
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    This is in fact what I was getting at the other day when commenting I hardly knew anyone on jobkeeper, and lots of businesses seemed to be open. Could half the workforce actually be on jobkeeper? I expect the tax office or treasury actually noticed this error when the money actually being claimed didn’t seem to add up to their estimate.

  13. #27838
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    When in opposition the libs screamed economic incompetence whenever Labour showed a possible vulnerability.

    I think it fair game for Labour to have a go on this one. Actually I thought Albo was very funny in his response i heard,along the lines of........."this mistake in economic forecasting is so big you could see it from the moon!
    ....and...... they're trying to run the economy? They couldn't run a bath!! He got a laugh out of me on the drive home from work.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    If trump loses the election he will be like a balloon that after it's inflated is let go without tying the knot and it farts about the room bouncing off walls, ceiling and windows, in a fatally erratic implosion! Those near him will be blown away!

  14. #27839
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Right, we shouldn't expect the treasurer to notice that half the workforce isn't actually out of work? If it's not an accounting error, what would you call it?
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  15. #27840
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Last I heard unemployment was still under 10%. Back in the 70s I think at one stage 10% was the going rate.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  16. #27841
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    About 10.5 million Australians are usually employed. Before CV unemployment was around 5% we’re unemployed. So that’s about 11 million in the workforce or seeking work. There are about 5 million over 60 who might be retired and 7 million who survive...some other way.

  17. #27842
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I might just mention that the definition of paid employment is one hour per week.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  18. #27843
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I’d call it a stuffup, of the most excellent kind Rick.
    I’m hopeful that many of those on jobkeeper will be off it way before 6 months too.
    That should make the bill we all have to pay even cheaper.
    I doubt whether anyone in Canberra has the faintest idea of what’s actually happening in the rest of the country. They looked at the forms.
    I was puzzled myself as to what I could see around me, but looking for places where There might be more affected.
    Albanese just said you could see this mistake from space, so why didn’t he notice it?

  19. #27844
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    News.com agrees with me. They headline it “60 billion dollar stuffup: treasurer admits huge mistake...

    We need more of these stuff ups.

  20. #27845
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Poor old Clive, got knocked back on being allowed to travel to WA, now he's threatening a High Court challenge.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-...osure/12276368
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  21. #27846
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by shamus View Post
    I’d call it a stuffup, of the most excellent kind Rick.
    I’m hopeful that many of those on jobkeeper will be off it way before 6 months too.
    That should make the bill we all have to pay even cheaper.
    I doubt whether anyone in Canberra has the faintest idea of what’s actually happening in the rest of the country. They looked at the forms.
    I was puzzled myself as to what I could see around me, but looking for places where There might be more affected.
    Albanese just said you could see this mistake from space, so why didn’t he notice it?
    Probably because he's not in space and also he has no access to the data until it's publicly available. Unlike the treasurer.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  22. #27847
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Poor old Clive, got knocked back on being allowed to travel to WA, now he's threatening a High Court challenge.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-...osure/12276368
    Palmer (a) lives up to his name, and (b) is a turd.
    Rick

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  23. #27848
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I agree with that Rick, Albo was never going to get a heads up from the Treasurer about this!.

    I note that the taxation bods concede that the form "could have been better designed".

  24. #27849
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    No Rick, all any of us had to do, including Albo, was say ‘what? 65% of the workforce is on jobkeeper, really?’
    Like most mistakes, it’s obvious in hindsight.
    Despite his glee, Albo is as dumb as the rest of us, or maybe a little bit dumber, since its actually his job to question the government.
    If he had any brains he’d shut up before we realise how slack he’s been.

  25. #27850
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    So the opposition leader who is not allowed to be briefed by any of the ATO is more responsible for the stuffup than the treasurer who has access to all of the ATO, all of their data, and actually has the statutory responsibility to manage our money. I can see how News Ltd would agree with you!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  26. #27851
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    You’re just being ridiculous.
    Everyone had the data. It has been publicly available for weeks. Do you think the treasurer goes and looks at applications?
    He asks tha ATO. They say 6.5 million. It’s all over the media. Josh says ‘ok treasury how much will that be?’ Treasury says 130.
    Josh says ‘ok, find me 130.’

    Then the money going out doesn’t seem enough to our fine public servants. So our fine public servants have a bit of a look and get to the bottom of it and tell Josh. Josh tells us.

    Albo says it was so obvious, you could see it from the moon.
    Which makes him look like an idiot, because he missed the biggest scoop an opposition could hope for, even though it was, according to him, blindingly obvious.

  27. #27852
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Hi. I know one person who was laid off as soon as the job keeper scheme was announced. The firm applied for the jobkeeper allowance and was told they did not qualify as their turnover had not fallen by more than 30percent but they had laid off almost 50 percent of the staff. This could say something about the management of the organization. This person who was laid off had to apply for the jobseeker payments and to do that needed forms signed by his employer but they wanted the jobkeeper payments and signing the forms would let the cat out of the bag. Catch 22 for the employee. I think the whole scheme was put together by spin doctors with the view to the 24 hour news cycle. I find it difficult to believe the heads of the government departments would sign off on this scheme without the pressure from the spin doctors working in the PM department.

    Bruce

  28. #27853
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Hi. I know one person who was laid off as soon as the job keeper scheme was announced. The firm applied for the jobkeeper allowance and was told they did not qualify as their turnover had not fallen by more than 30percent but they had laid off almost 50 percent of the staff. This could say something about the management of the organization. This person who was laid off had to apply for the jobseeker payments and to do that needed forms signed by his employer but they wanted the jobkeeper payments and signing the forms would let the cat out of the bag. Catch 22 for the employee. I think the whole scheme was put together by spin doctors with the view to the 24 hour news cycle. I find it difficult to believe the heads of the government departments would sign off on this scheme without the pressure from the spin doctors working in the PM department.

    Bruce

  29. #27854
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    As far as I know, there was no requirement to keep all staff on job keeper. My DIL was kept on jobkeeper, while some other staff were laid off. I know the laid off ones got all their paperwork, because she is the HR manager, and used my printer to print the stuff while working from home.

  30. #27855
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Something doesn't add up, ( pun intended ) with the excuse the bean counters have given for the error in saying that employers, when filling in the section that asked how many workers they would need to place on jobkeeper instead interpreted the question and answered as how much money they required for jobkeeper payments???
    No no bright spark picked that up and somehow the result was the whole scheme would cost twice as much as the reality of the situation in the real world application of said scheme. Der....let's see, they are all qualified professionals, in statistical analysis, economics, accounting etc yes? Get paid much more that us teachers and techs and ordinary professionals, yes? Public servants working with Govt advisors, heads of departments and relevant Govt ministers, Yes? And the result? A stuff up of the proportions of the great wall of China, visible from the Moon...!!!??? Ha ha aha ha ha.. good work boys and girls. Glad you're on the ball for.... wait for it......
    TEAM AUSTRALIA. ha ha ha!
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    If trump loses the election he will be like a balloon that after it's inflated is let go without tying the knot and it farts about the room bouncing off walls, ceiling and windows, in a fatally erratic implosion! Those near him will be blown away!

  31. #27856
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I agree it seems an odd mistake to make, but also it seems only a small proportion actually made the mistake, and they have said the form could have been better designed. I suppose we’ll see a copy of it shortly.

  32. #27857
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    ATO Second Commissioner Jeremy Hirschhorn said it appeared those applicants misunderstood the question on their application forms.
    He said that no extra money was paid to businesses, as the question that was misunderstood by some was not linked to payments.
    "We ask a question for analytical purposes only, not for payment purposes," he said.
    "It made not one difference to the amount we paid."

    However, it looks to me as though this only explains part of the difference. In fact it looks as though the 130 billion was an initial estimate from treasury modelling when they thought the epidemic here would be worse than it turned out to be. As things have turned out it’s really good news all round.
    Last edited by shamus; 05-22-2020 at 06:22 AM.

  33. #27858
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    News Ltd world: When there's a stuff-up, it's the fault of the public servants and the opposition who should have been monitoring the performance of the treasurer. The treasurer is merely a naive, disinterested observer whose job it is to announce things. When a scheme actually works, well, then the treasurer is a genius!! who whipped those evil public servants into shape and made it all happen!
    Rick

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  34. #27859
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Let's see, if I needed someone to do reasonably complex accounting work for my business, which of the following would I choose to make sure it was all done appropriately and honestly:

    Joe Hockey
    Scott Morrison
    Chris Bowen
    Josh Frydenberg
    Jim Chalmers

    Hmm .....

    And if my business was making some fairly substantial investments, I wonder which of them would keep an eye on them for me?
    Last edited by RFNK; 05-22-2020 at 06:32 AM.
    Rick

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  35. #27860
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Meanwhile, now that China has made it's move on Hong Kong it would be reasonable to assume that much of its recent diplomatic attack on Australia is a diversionary tactic. They've got their little spat with the USA that also provides a diversion. I think this weakens their position with respect to negotiating trade with oz.
    Also given the UK's stance that the Sino British Joint Declaration is a legally binding agreement that must be honoured, how is Boris going to flex some British muscle over this slap in the face by China? Will this be his " Winston Churchill moment? ..... i doubt it . Somehow I don't think he or the Brits have got it in them to come up with a coherent response. Yet another 'exit stage left' moment for the UK.
    Rather humiliating situation for them.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    If trump loses the election he will be like a balloon that after it's inflated is let go without tying the knot and it farts about the room bouncing off walls, ceiling and windows, in a fatally erratic implosion! Those near him will be blown away!

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