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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #26671
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Here's a bit of a summation of the effect of those laws; https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-hear-about-it
    It's embarrassing; blatantly designed to protect politicians specifically.

    Witness K lawyer says pretty much the same thing; https://www.theguardian.com/australi...-nowhere-to-go
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  2. #26672
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    And the stumps re-elected the government……………...

    Serves them all right.

  3. #26673
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I see that water trading by non-land holding entities is under scrutiny at present.

    https://www.accc.gov.au/focus-areas/...arkets-inquiry

    Meanwhile farmers are asking the government about 'exit packages', and Agricultural Economics is talking of areas no longer viable for agriculture at all, and uninsurable.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 10-22-2019 at 04:18 PM.

  4. #26674
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Interesting discussion on RN this morning about un-notified unsafe uninsurable and uninhabitable buildings and the risks to workers carrying out mitigation work. I wonder what Workcover says about it? If a single, anonymous, undocumented, uncorroborated complaint can get a site closed down, and it can, then how woul work on a cracked or fire risk building be regarded?
    Last edited by skuthorp; 10-23-2019 at 04:19 AM.

  5. #26675
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I see that water trading by non-land holding entities is under scrutiny at present.
    Bout time.
    Its absurd that farmers have to compete in a 'market' with speculators.
    The other challenge is how to prevent the big multinational enterprises outbidding small farmers and decimating communities.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  6. #26676
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Interesting discussion on RN this morning about un-notified unsafe uninsurable and uninhabitable buildings and the risks to workers carrying out mitigation work. I wonder what Workcover says about it? If a single, anonymous, undocumented, uncorroborated complaint can get a site closed down, and it can, then how woul work on a cracked or fire risk building be regarded?
    What happened to building inspectors...oh that's right government in it's infinite wisdom decided to let the building industry regulate itself...in NSW anyway.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  7. #26677
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    What happened to building inspectors...oh that's right government in it's infinite wisdom decided to let the building industry regulate itself...in NSW anyway.
    This was law in the 90s.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-...-laws/11631874
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  8. #26678
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I wonder how that will trickle into recourse to the law if things go wrong.
    Submitting plans is fine.
    Obtaining as built drawings is another.
    Having an entity to sue is another again.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  9. #26679
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Here's a thought; relationship between inequality and the Hong Kong riots.........

    record breaking price for a parking space - $1 million dollars!

    1million.JPG
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  10. #26680
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Here's a thought; relationship between inequality and the Hong Kong riots.........

    record breaking price for a parking space - $1 million dollars!

    1million.JPG
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  11. #26681
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    "Having an entity to sue is another again."

    The guns for hire will have a picnic, another generation of their kids through private school.

  12. #26682
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    I wonder how that will trickle into recourse to the law if things go wrong.
    Submitting plans is fine.
    Obtaining as built drawings is another.
    Having an entity to sue is another again.
    The process use to be inspections at each stage of construction. Concrete samples for each load were sent for testing.


    I hear Lambie has said if you want stuff passed it will cost you a federal ICAC...hope it's true.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  13. #26683
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Here's a thought, Nauru detention centre repurposed as a political prisoner camp, featuring Morrison, Dutton & Co.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  14. #26684
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Not a thought with much value Gary, Morrison, Dutton & Co. just got re-elected by the stumps.



  15. #26685
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Crown Casino investigation hots up.
    https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.co...airs-heats-up/
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  16. #26686
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Crown Casino investigation hots up.
    https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.co...airs-heats-up/
    money makes the world go round cabaret
    I expect that there will be some administrative excuse, a few scapegoats, and the visa for cash trade will continue by more discrete means.

  17. #26687
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Witnesses are encouraged to come forward

    The ACLEI, has urged anyone with information which may assist the inquiry to come forward
    So we know who they are and they can be put in jail under some of the anti-terrorism laws.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  18. #26688
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I think this is turning out, for Labour in the longer term, a good election to lose. Not so much for Australia I think, but the voters were bought, scared or persuaded and we'll see where it all goes.

  19. #26689
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I think this is turning out, for Labour in the longer term, a good election to lose. Not so much for Australia I think, but the voters were bought, scared or persuaded and we'll see where it all goes.
    Worse than the Whinging Wendy adverts and even more repetitious.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  20. #26690
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Dutton and the Surveillance State.
    Saturday paper November 1

    Long but worth it.

    We’ve all seen it in some American police drama: the line-up from which a victim of crime is asked to pick out the perpetrator among a range of suspects.
    Now envision a situation where those suspects are selected by an algorithm capable of scanning the biometric data of almost every citizen of the country, held on a single central government database. Where we are all potential suspects, all the time, and, unlike those in an old-fashioned line-up, are completely unaware of it. Where any one of us – particularly if we are female or a person of colour – could be falsely identified on the basis of a picture taken as we go about our daily life, on the street or at the football. Where the state could go after dissenters, in the style of the crackdown on protesters in Hong Kong.
    In summary, you have the basis of a regime of mass surveillance, enabled by artificial intelligence. And you have the future as envisioned by Peter Dutton’s Department of Home Affairs.
    “The perpetual line-up” is how Emily Howie, legal director at the Human Rights Law Centre, describes the consequence of two pieces of legislation proposed by the government. It’s a phrase borrowed from academic researchers at Georgetown University in Washington, DC, who in 2016 compiled a paper on the threats posed to personal privacy and civil liberties by the widespread use of facial recognition technology.
    They were alarmed to find that one in two Americans was in a law-enforcement facial recognition database. But what is proposed in the Identity-matching Services Bill 2019 and the Australian Passports Amendment (Identity-matching Services) Bill 2019 is even more wide-ranging. Here, the database would include anyone who has a passport, driver’s licence or other photographic identification held by federal, state or territory governments. That is to say, almost everyone.
    Unsurprisingly, a long list of legal and technical experts and human rights organisations have expressed concern about the plan.
    The Law Council of Australia not only raised red flags about the wide net of the database, but also expressed doubts about the accuracy of the system in identifying individuals; the adverse impacts of false matches on their privacy; the undermining of the notion of informed consent; the potential for targeting on the basis of race, ethnicity or religion; the prospect of using the technology in cases of trivial offences; the lack of safeguards; weak oversight; the prospect of misuse by not only the government but also the private sector; the lack of penalties for such unauthorised use; and the open possibility that the rules could be changed “to expand the scope and operation of identity-matching services” in future.
    The government’s own Human Rights Commission submitted that “the Bill would impinge on a number of human rights in ways not demonstrated to be necessary and proportionate to achieving its objectives”.
    “Rights that are particularly likely to be limited are the right to privacy, freedom of movement, the right to non-discrimination, and the right to a fair trial, though this is not an exhaustive list,” the commission summarised.
    “The Commission reiterates its principal recommendation that the Bill not be passed.”
    It is not uncommon for such organisations to offer criticism of proposed legislation, particularly in the case of national security legislation, which is often highly contentious. Sometimes amendments are made as a result. But seldom have bills been so roundly criticised on so many grounds.


    However, what is really extraordinary is what happened on Thursday morning when the parliamentary joint committee on intelligence and security (PJCIS) – long distinguished for its seriousness of intent, non-partisanship and unanimity – substantially agreed with those critics in their submissions and evidence.
    It recommended the bills be dumped, redrafted in their entirety.
    Almost two decades on from September 11, 2001, after the passage of 75 separate pieces of national security legislation – with negative impacts on civil liberties, government accountability and press and other freedoms – the PJCIS determined this was finally a bridge too far.
    In tabling the report, the committee’s chair, Liberal MP Andrew Hastie, was circumspect in his language.
    He noted that “the genesis of the bill came from the need to combat the growing incidence of identity crime” and that “many participants to this review expressed broad support for the underlying objectives and rationale of the bill”.
    But, he said, the committee also shared the concerns raised by participants who said the legislation lacked “robust safeguards” and “appropriate oversight mechanisms”.
    A redrafted bill, he said, must be “built around privacy, transparency and subject to robust safeguards … subject to parliamentary oversight, and reasonable proportionate and transparent functionality”. It must, he added, be referred again to the PJCIS for review.

    (Continued)

  21. #26691
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Continued from #26690

    The shadow attorney-general, Mark Dreyfus, QC, also a member of the committee, was more blunt in his assessment.
    “The Identity-matching Services Bill purports to facilitate the exchange of identity information pursuant to the objectives of an intergovernmental agreement reached by COAG in October 2017, but it includes none of the limitations or safeguards anticipated by that agreement. The bill includes almost no limitations or safeguards at all,” he said.
    Under the “face identification service” provided for in the bill, Dreyfus said, “a law-enforcement agency could submit a facial image for matching against a database of facial images contained in government identification documents, such as a database containing every driver licence photo in Australia. In return, the agency would receive a small number of matching or near-matching facial images from the database. The agency could then access biographical information associated with those images.”
    Dreyfus noted that many submissions to the inquiry raised “the potential for such a service to be used for mass or blanket surveillance – such as CCTV being used to identify Australians going about their business in real time”.
    He continued: “The Australian Human Rights Commissioner, for example, submitted that the bill ‘appears to contemplate intrusive surveillance of persons or, indeed, of the community at large before any crime has been committed and indeed, potentially, before there is any reason to believe that a particular crime will be committed’.
    “… If there is no intention for the proposed identity-matching services to be used to engage in mass surveillance activities, the government should not object to amending the bill to ensure that those services cannot, as a matter of law, be used in that manner.”
    The shadow attorney-general noted in particular that there was nothing in the bill to prohibit authorities from using the proposed face-matching services to identify people exercising their right to protest.
    That would be concerning at “the best of times”, Dreyfus said, but was all the more pressing given what he described as “the authoritarian disposition” of the minister in charge: Peter Dutton.
    “It was only this month that the minister for Home Affairs, the minister responsible for this very bill, called for mandatory prison sentences for people who engage in protest activity, called for the same people to have their welfare payments cancelled, and also called for them to be photographed and publicly shamed,” Dreyfus said.
    It was a tough speech, but still, in the view of some, too charitable – for Dreyfus suggested the government did not intend mass surveillance and that Dutton and his department had not considered the implications of the proposed legislation.
    But as Labor’s Anthony Byrne, the deputy chair of the PJCIS, points out, the government’s first attempt to establish an all-encompassing database was in 2014.
    “It was as part of an omnibus bill, the counterterrorism and foreign fighters bill. They tried to sneak through a regime by which they could have anything, in terms of biometrics and facial recognition, just by regulation [i.e. without the need for further legislation],” says Byrne. “It was hidden away in the explanatory memorandum.”
    The PJCIS rejected that attempt. It said that if the government wanted such collection of biometric information, it should bring legislation – setting out clearly what powers were sought – and proceed only after consulting on privacy concerns and referring the bill back to the committee.
    In October 2017, the Coalition won agreement from the states for a regime of data sharing and identity matching. It was sold largely as a means to combat identity fraud, but the legislation subsequently produced was very broad and omitted agreed safeguards.
    It was referred to the PJCIS, which took submissions and evidence from various groups, including those already mentioned, about the possible implications, described by Emily Howie as “Orwellian”.
    The legislation lapsed with the calling of this year’s election, before the PJCIS could deliver its report. But the government couldn’t have been unaware of the serious concerns raised.
    Yet a few months ago, the bills came back in identical form. The PJCIS is the most heavyweight and bipartisan of committees. Only on the rarest of occasions over decades have its recommendations not been adopted by government – until this government.
    This suggests there was nothing unintended in the original legislation, and raises the prospect that this week’s rebuke by the PJCIS will not necessarily be the end of the matter.
    In July, the government ignored a series of recommended changes to another piece of security legislation: the foreign fighters bill. And Dutton signalled his intention to continue to ignore PJCIS recommendations he did not consider to be in the interests of national security.
    During debate on that bill, the Home Affairs minister launched an unprecedented attack on the committee, calling it “a management tool for the member of Isaacs” – Mark Dreyfus.
    Through the committee, Dreyfus “waters every bill down”, Dutton claimed. He declared he would not allow security agencies to be “stymied” by the shadow attorney-general.
    The tirade was widely seen as an insult not only to Dreyfus, but to the entire committee, on which the government has a majority. There are no soft lefties here. Hastie, the PJCIS chair, is a former SAS soldier and is generally considered a hardliner on security matters. Tasmanian hard-right senator Eric Abetz is also a member.
    This is not to say the decision to reject the recent legislation was driven by the umbrage committee members felt, although some of them might have enjoyed slapping Dutton down.
    It may have affected the timing of the report’s tabling, during an already difficult sitting week in which the government has been under attack for its undermining of democratic freedoms, particularly freedom of the press.
    The committee was due to hear from witnesses last week, but the hearings were cancelled at short notice. They reportedly had already heard enough from opponents of the bills, and from Dutton.
    Human rights advocates who were lobbying against the bills suggest world events may also have served to underline to committee members the inherent threats in the bills.
    Continued

  22. #26692
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Continued from #26691

    “I think the China factor is a real concern for some committee members. It might have concentrated some minds,” says Emily Howie, pointing to recent events in Hong Kong, where Carrie Lam sought to ban the wearing of face masks so dissidents could be identified by facial recognition technology, as one example.
    “We have seen what can happen, at the dystopian end, in the control the Chinese government has over the Uygur people, or its social credit system,” says Howie.
    She notes that Hastie, in particular, has been an outspoken critic of the Chinese government’s surveillance program.
    “I’m not saying that we’re anything like China at the moment, but we need to stop and grapple with what kind of society we want,” says Howie.
    “It is not insignificant that three cities in the United States, including San Francisco, the home of Silicon Valley, have actually decided to ban facial recognition.”
    While Dutton’s proposal may not have led to omnipresent, real-time video monitoring of the citizenry, as is the case in China, Ed Santow, the human rights commissioner, explains to The Saturday Paper that it is worth understanding what it would enable.
    “Assume a police officer has a photo of someone, perhaps taken in a crowded sports stadium. They suspect that person of having committed a crime, but they don’t know that person’s identity,” he says. “Essentially, they can put the photo of that person [into the system], and it will spit out a gallery of photos of people who might be that person.
    “The police might narrow that down to a shortlist of say, half a dozen. Then the system will provide a whole swath of personal information – biographical and sensitive personal information – about the people on the shortlist.
    “At least five of the six people in that hypothetical are not actually suspects, and quite possibly six of them, actually,” he says.
    After all, artificial intelligence is still very prone to error, Santow explains.
    He points to a trial run last year by the London Metropolitan Police. “They put a series of photographs of people who they were actively looking for through a very sophisticated facial recognition application. And they came up with 104 matches. The bad news was that 102 of those matches were incorrect – a false-positive rate of about 98 per cent.”
    Other studies, notably the Gender Shades project by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Media Lab, found facial recognition technology was particularly prone to mistakes when trying to identify women and people of colour. The darker the skin of the subjects scanned, the higher the error rate.
    This uncertain technology would not only be available for use in what Santow describes as a “ticking time bomb” situation – time-sensitive cases where extreme measures may be warranted – but for “a very, very large range of purposes”.
    “It can be used for what the government calls ‘crime prevention’, and when you look into what crime prevention means, it is incredibly broad,” he says.
    “The bill is not limited to law enforcement in any way. So there are various other government bodies that can request identity-matching services, but also some companies, banks, those sorts of bodies would all be able to make requests.”
    No one suggests there are no advantages to be won from data matching, properly safeguarded. But facial recognition technology is already in use in Australia with little oversight. Recently, the city of Darwin used federal money to buy 138 CCTV cameras, equipped with facial recognition technology – which it has promised not to enable, yet.
    Earlier this year, Stadiums Queensland followed the lead of New South Wales and Victoria, quietly trialling CCTV with facial recognition at its venues. The stadiums displayed no warnings such technology was in use. The move set off privacy fears, particularly that spectators’ biometric data could be shared with state and federal police and other government agencies.
    Legislation is urgently needed, say the lawyers and civil libertarians.
    But not what is planned by Peter Dutton. Not the sort that puts us all in a digital line-up.

    But then the stumps, including Ian elected them again. Serves them right.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 10-25-2019 at 05:26 PM.

  23. #26693
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Bloody near unreadable. For someone who had a career in advertising, I thought you'd understand the value of layout.... but, no
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  24. #26694
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    LOL!
    "Questions have been raised about the accuracy of the citizenship declaration made by Scott Morrison in the aftermath of the constitutional eligibility crisis that engulfed the last parliament.
    On Friday the New Zealand Department of Internal Affairs confirmed advice from citizenship law experts that Morrison was entitled to be a New Zealand citizen at the time of his birth – but that to take it up his mother would have had to apply for him to be registered.
    "

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...D=ansmsnnews11

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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Bloody near unreadable. For someone who had a career in advertising, I thought you'd understand the value of layout.... but, no
    C&P can stuff up formatting, you of all people should know that.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  26. #26696
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    LOL!
    "Questions have been raised about the accuracy of the citizenship declaration made by Scott Morrison in the aftermath of the constitutional eligibility crisis that engulfed the last parliament.
    On Friday the New Zealand Department of Internal Affairs confirmed advice from citizenship law experts that Morrison was entitled to be a New Zealand citizen at the time of his birth – but that to take it up his mother would have had to apply for him to be registered.
    "

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...D=ansmsnnews11
    Is it too late to send him back?
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  27. #26697
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    C&P can stuff up formatting, you of all people should know that.
    The reading problem is the length of the line in relation to type face and line spacing. The eye wanders where 'gutters' occur. But it's information, not an ad.

  28. #26698
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Meanwhile a phosphate mining company on Christmas Island has been handed a $20 million contract to manage the detention center there. Which by the way is housing a single family from a town in Queensland that actually wants them back...despite what Herr Reichsmarchall Dutton says.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  29. #26699
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Some interesting work on the increasing frequency of bushfires.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...3/#!po=63.7931

    A lot of it is over my head but I understand the result of the study.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  30. #26700
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    A combination of educated estimations from those with knowledge of bush fire behaviour and likely flashpoint conditions. And results of scientific analysis of collected data from standard observations that can track departures from a set norm.
    That's what I got from a quick read. I understand that the government recently cut funding for fire research.
    Then there's neglect of maintenance. Carelessnes and ignorance. Pro active activity pre fire. Climate change and the accelleration and increasing frequency of conditions condusive to fire.
    And arson.

    And by iplication there are people, (like us) who live in places that maybe we shouldn't. It was that 6-8 weeks a year it was risky. Now it's likely 4 months, more like 6 in other places.

  31. #26701
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    C&P can stuff up formatting, you of all people should know that.
    So, fix it, or treat your potential audience like ****. It reflects on the poster - badly. Shows that they have little regard for the reader.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  32. #26702
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    And the theme of 4 corners tonight is…..
    there's a sucker youtube

    and a lot of con artists out there to help yo along.

  33. #26703
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    So, fix it, or treat your potential audience like ****. It reflects on the poster - badly. Shows that they have little regard for the reader.
    Didn't worry me I could read it.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  34. #26704
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    4 corners. Drought and the MDC. The politicians are irrelevant, it really needs one authority to manage, not 4 states and the commonwealth. It also highlights overallocation and the wrong crops for the changing circumstances, and the possibility that agriculture will have to retreat. The CSIRO said as much
    quite a long time ago, but it was not politically acceptable. But basically at present if it doesn't rain then all else is piss in the wind

    I wonder where Surveyor Godyer would consider putting his line now?
    Last edited by skuthorp; 10-28-2019 at 06:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    240 scientists write to say there's an Australian species extinction crisis. Morrison says it's not happening.
    Of course one species is doing very well………………….. so far………...

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