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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #24326
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Cool - as a non-viewer i'm curious; what do you think of the way the Lib pollies respond to Sky by the minute. Is the coverage good and unbiased enough to be taken that seriously?
    Like I said (implied?) - I don’t believe any news coverage on any channel is unbiased enough to be taken seriously......but as far as Sky goes I admit that I do somewhat like watching and thinking about Credlins alternative but generally quite well considered views to balance the picture. I don’t watch her often but when I have watched her I have appreciated her approach and articulation in presenting her alternative to mainstream media and popularist opinion as a way of making me think more laterally about issues and of appreciating the disparity of opinions.
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  2. #24327
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Re: https://www.theguardian.com/australi...-ringside-seat

    “The part that gets missed for people outside Canberra … is when you are in Parliament House, our side of politics spends their whole time in their offices with Sky News playing in the background, and you are watching colleagues going head-to-head with Labor on policy, but once it gets to 6pm, it goes from panel-style shows to commentary shows.
    “Look that’s [Sky’s] business model, it isn’t sour grapes, they are entitled to do this, they are trying to go the Fox News, US-style controversial rightwing shake-it-up … and a lot of my colleagues take what they say as gospel.”

    All I can think is what a bunch of immature tossers they must be to be hanging on every mood swing of the Sky broadcasters! ........and if there was a Labour equivalent I'd say the same, but I seriously don't think there is.
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  3. #24328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    Re: https://www.theguardian.com/australi...-ringside-seat

    “The part that gets missed for people outside Canberra … is when you are in Parliament House, our side of politics spends their whole time in their offices with Sky News playing in the background, and you are watching colleagues going head-to-head with Labor on policy, but once it gets to 6pm, it goes from panel-style shows to commentary shows.
    “Look that’s [Sky’s] business model, it isn’t sour grapes, they are entitled to do this, they are trying to go the Fox News, US-style controversial rightwing shake-it-up … and a lot of my colleagues take what they say as gospel.”

    All I can think is what a bunch of immature tossers they must be to be hanging on every mood swing of the Sky broadcasters! ........and if there was a Labour equivalent I'd say the same, but I seriously don't think there is.
    Well thank you for your comments. It's a pity you don't appear to know what you are talking about. Richo. Ever heard of him, or the various other Labor luminaries that Sky use to balance their coverage?
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  4. #24329
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-...lower/11247518

    Whistleblowers in Queensland's worst contamination scandal have accused the State Government of raising the risk that a burgeoning coal seam gas (CSG) industry will spread toxic chemicals left by Linc Energy's failed gas project.
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  5. #24330
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/env...huLC8HuRzHCb04

    The highest amounts of total support to coal consumption were identified in Indonesia at US$2.3 billion per year, Italy and Australia, both about US$870 million, the US at US$708 million, and the UK with US$682 million, it reported.
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  6. #24331
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  7. #24332
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Yes - dog with bone and all that.
    The paper suggesting there is no drop in krill numbers just didn't sit well. So a bit of sniffing around.

    https://scholar.google.com.au/schola...tic+krill&btnG

    So Krill exists thorughout the oceans. But most of it is in the high latitudes.
    The krill in the south Atlantic (deep ocean krill) are possible doing okay - but that is not indicative of krill numbers in the Antarctic. The deep ocean krill have a whole other set of enviornmental pressures and are not dependent on sea ice. They need ocean shelves..... (you can never have enough storage - boom boom!).
    It is not only krill studies that are proving radical drops in krill bio-mass. Studies in why penguin, petrel and other seabird numbers are dropping and such, are also pointing at this. Penguin starvation is also an indicator of the reduced sea ice - because they can't get to the most productive seas to eat.

    Basically it is sea ice. The algae baby krill lives on, lives on sea ice. The Antarctic is warming faster than anywhere else - which i didn't know. I thought it was all about Greenland...... Sea ice is changing and krill are not surviving. Baby krill need to find a stable food supply within 10 days of hatching on the ocean floor. They rise up and hey presto - no sea ice, they fall back down.

    Studies back to 1996 are showing the drop in bio-mass - it's not a recent thing.
    All good, but not the picture presented by the claim that was being disputed, and further, the disputed claim was obviously fishy (boom boom) from the beginning, but the usual suspects didn't seem to notice, or perhaps they did...

    It's like Greenland melting. You know this happened in the 1930s as well? It's not unprecedented, and the 1930s warm period was not Greenhouse related, it wasn't human caused. Indeed, the entire first half of the twentieth century warming was not human caused, as all acknowledge, except some Greenies and people on this thread, for some reason.

    Cheers,
    John.
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  8. #24333
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Speaking of news etc. I can't watch TV, haven't been able to for decades, it's just too, too, bad. Well, except for cricket, as long as Andrew Strauss isn't commentating...

    I have also given up reading all Australian news except the ABC Web site, which I check a couple of times a day, and generally don't click on more than one article. All the rest are crap, and tabloid to boot. The ABC hired an ex-commercial producer guy to run their Web site last year, and he's been busily making all their headlines into clickbait "narrative" hangers, to try and get people to click on more links, as well as bringing in more of the tabloid crap that the commercial services are addicted to, so I don't know how much longer I'll be able to tolerate Aunty either.
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  9. #24334
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    All good, but not the picture presented by the claim that was being disputed, and further, the disputed claim was obviously fishy (boom boom) from the beginning, but the usual suspects didn't seem to notice, or perhaps they did...

    It's like Greenland melting. You know this happened in the 1930s as well? It's not unprecedented, and the 1930s warm period was not Greenhouse related, it wasn't human caused. Indeed, the entire first half of the twentieth century warming was not human caused, as all acknowledge, except some Greenies and people on this thread, for some reason.

    Cheers,
    John.
    You've been looking at data up to but not including 2010. Try looking at maximum temperatures around the planet for the last 10-15 years.
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  10. #24335
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    No Gary, I'm looking at two things - Greenland's 1930s melt, and the scientific consensus, as far as I can tell, on the warming from 1900 to around 1940 - not human caused.

    If Greenland melted in the 'thirties, and it wasn't human-caused, then it's just another event like countless others, which are not necessarily part of a pattern, even a natural one, let alone a human-caused one.

    It could still be the case that human-caused global warming is happening, and it's a problem. What is not the case is that Greenland melting is "yet another proof" of same. It simply isn't.

    Regards,
    John.
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  11. #24336
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    No Gary, I'm looking at two things - Greenland's 1930s melt, and the scientific consensus, as far as I can tell, on the warming from 1900 to around 1940 - not human caused.

    If Greenland melted in the 'thirties, and it wasn't human-caused, then it's just another event like countless others, which are not necessarily part of a pattern, even a natural one, let alone a human-caused one.

    It could still be the case that human-caused global warming is happening, and it's a problem. What is not the case is that Greenland melting is "yet another proof" of same. It simply isn't.

    Regards,
    John.

    ..........it might be?
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  12. #24337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    ..........it might be?
    No, not "might be" proof. Perhaps you mean, might be caused by human-caused greenhouse warming?

    And sure, Hallam, might be, as the current rainy period in Perth might be, but probably isn't, or the dryer than usual May we just had. I recall five years of terrible drought in the late 'seventies in Morawa on our farm, which as far as anybody knew was unprecedented, and people were starting to think it was a permanent climate change (not human caused, just a long-term cycle that we didn't know about because we'd only started records less than a hundred years before). The climate is variable, and incredibly complex, more complex than most people seem to realise. I mean, mind-bogglingly complex. Why do the scientists have such varying views, after all? (I mean, the scientists, actual ones, who disagree on lots of this stuff, not the confected "97%" mythical ones.)

    So, let's put this in clear terms: Logically, if you want to say something is evidence for a particular thesis, you have to have a basis for that. Something being unprecedented would be some kind of basis for claiming that it is due to some other unprecedented cause (human-caused CO2 emissions) now present. Something being precedented would be even better, if the same cause was present in both cases. In this case, we have an event which has occurred before, and we don't know why it happened last time, but we do know that there was not much in the way of human-caused CO2 emissions present. I reckon we can't say anything about it except, hey look, Greenland's going green, again.

    After all, it's called Greenland because it used to be green.

    Regards,
    John.
    Last edited by Aquinian; 06-27-2019 at 12:32 AM.
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  13. #24338
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    G'day, back on air, neigbours builders dug up the cable, twice, and didn't notify anyone.

    15 houses effected.

    I've read a page or two, I'll take a raincheck. But any sign of Government's actions to deal with the consequences of climate change up your way?
    Regardless of cause it's happening.

  14. #24339
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Spain, 40C and bushfires, Germany 37+C, highest ever, Switzerland 40C and France 40C, expecting 45C tomorrow. Hmmm, so yeah nothing to see here.
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  15. #24340
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Greg, regarding plastic you should like this story.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-...hands/11249628
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  16. #24341
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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Greg, regarding plastic you should like this story.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-...hands/11249628
    Thanks Gary and, yes, indeed I do like it - a great initiative and so pleasant to read something positive being shared on here for a change
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  17. #24342
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    Great story Gary!
    An excellent use of a waste resource!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    [snip]..I mean, mind-bogglingly complex. Why do the scientists have such varying views, after all? (I mean, the scientists, actual ones, who disagree on lots of this stuff, not the confected "97%" mythical ones.)
    They don't, and the 97% figure is based on multiple studies:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey...climate_change

    I reckon we can't say anything about it except, hey look, Greenland's going green, again.

    After all, it's called Greenland because it used to be green.
    What a total load of complete and utter old cobblers.

    The ice sheets of Greenland have remained pretty stable for the past 2.5 million years. Only the smallest of coastal margins have had any kind of greenery, and even then much of the coast is too dry for anything to grow.

    Erik the Red's recruitment of others to settle in Greenland has been characterized recently as a land scam, the scam (and the name) portraying Greenland as better farm land than in Iceland
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland

    Sounds familiar...

    John. There are no such things as 'alternative facts'. Get used to it, and don't try them on us here. You just appear silly. Seriously.
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  18. #24343
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    In a world of lies there will always be an alternative fact.

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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    https://www.mamamia.com.au/israel-folau-acl-fundraiser/

    My secretary had to stop answering the phone because she was just getting so sick of the abuse. I had one that I’ve passed on to the police that was threatening to cut my throat.”However, he felt it was important, as a religious leader, to give an alternative view to Folau’s.
    “Honestly, there is nothing in the scriptures that condemns what we now understand as same-sex attracted people,” he says. “Infidelity is condemned. They don’t know what same-sex attraction is. It’s a very complex thing.
    “Bad biblical scholarship always leads to human suffering, and that’s exactly what we’re seeing in this case.”
    Fr Bower says he would love to sit down and talk to Folau.
    “I would like to say, ‘Look mate, I understand you actually believe that you are offering hope and help to LGBTI people, but what I need you to do is listen to their voice and hear how they’re receiving what you’re saying. They’re hearing condemnation and marginalisation and vilification. I just hope you can hear their voice.’”
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    I'm looking at two things - .....
    Cherry picking means ignoring an awful lot of other stuff; https://skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=47
    The simple plain fact is since 1950 the global temperatures have increased at a stupid rate that is completely unprecedented. There is no 'other side' to this story.



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    For a video version with data updated through 2016, click here.One of the most common misunderstandings amongst climate contrarians is the difference between short-term noise and long-term signal. This animation shows how the same temperature data (green) that is used to determine the long-term global surface air warming trend of 0.16°C per decade (red) can be used inappropriately to "cherrypick" short time periods that show a cooling trend simply because the endpoints are carefully chosen and the trend is dominated by short-term noise in the data (blue steps). Isn't it strange how six periods of cooling can add up to a clear warming trend over the last 4 decades?

    https://skepticalscience.com/global-...y-advanced.htm
    Last edited by gypsie; 06-27-2019 at 11:28 PM.
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  21. #24346
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    Aquinian strikes me as one of those who reckon that god will one day put his foot out of heaven and make all the damage we've done right again. I know he hasn't said so of course but that's where, after you dump the dross, the argument goes.
    Frankly I'd welcome it, maybe a reset somewhere back in the Permian for a start.

    And Folau? Best way to handle that sort of crap is with laughter and derision.
    He certainly has the right to say most things he likes, but the consequences come along with the rights. Take away the rugby and the money and he's just another fringe living fanatic.

  22. #24347
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    And Folau? Best way to handle that sort of crap is with laughter and derision.
    Just for you Jeff:

    Todaywas the first day for Dr. Laura Schlessinger and her "no-nonsense" advice on satellite radio. In her radio show, Dr. Laura has said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. An enquiry into other Bibilical admonitions raises some key questions. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura from James M. Kauffman, Professor Emeritus at the University of Virginia.

    Dear Dr. Laura:


    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.


    I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.


    1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?


    2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?


    3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual "uncleanliness" - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.


    4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?


    5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?


    6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there degrees of abomination?


    7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?


    8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?


    9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?


    10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.


    Your adoring fan.


    James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus, Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education, University of Virginia.


    PS (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian)
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    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.




  24. #24349
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    This Folau and religious 'freedom to be spiteful' is painful.
    It's watching the whole anti-gay marriage, last desperate gasp to protect what exactly, all over again.

    The guy blurts out his missionary style statement commanding people to act a certain way (that he considers appropriate), while surreptitiously calling them names, and its an expression of faith?
    An expression of teenage embarrassing cringe.

    As for the zealots forking in $2million - maybe someone hasn't mentioned the homeless to them?
    Christian my a$$
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    Great story Gary!
    An excellent use of a waste resource!


    They don't, and the 97% figure is based on multiple studies:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey...climate_change
    No, it's a trick. The way it's done is to frame the question a certain way, omit the total of the scientists asked from the results, and then present the number as though it represents something it doesn't.

    So, the alarmist says, "we must act now, in serious and large scale ways, to address climate change." Very few scientists will agree with that. But to support it, you ask scientists if they agree that there is climate change, and that it is due in part to human activity. Different question, and says nothing about the level of alarm, or even the level of change, or how much of it is due to human activity.

    And, you ask ten thousand scientists, and two thousand respond. Which ones? The self-selecting cohort who are most interested. 97% of those who respond turn out to agree with the proposition above, not the proposition that the alarnmist political activists are actually selling, and which they use the "97%" figure to support. From that Wikipedia article, "97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are contributing to global warming."

    So, do we know that 97% of climate scientists agree that human-caused global warming is a crisis? No, we know that 97% of those who responded, agree that
    humans are contributing to global warming.

    See through it now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    What a total load of complete and utter old cobblers.

    The ice sheets of Greenland have remained pretty stable for the past 2.5 million years. Only the smallest of coastal margins have had any kind of greenery, and even then much of the coast is too dry for anything to grow.

    "Erik the Red's recruitment of others to settle in Greenland has been characterized recently as a land scam, the scam (and the name) portraying Greenland as better farm land than in Iceland"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland
    I see. Let's read the very next sentence of the Wikipedia article. "The Norse settlements, such as Brattahlíð, thrived for centuries but disappeared sometime in the 15th century, perhaps at the onset of the Little Ice Age."

    Oh, so it got colder, like the rest of Europe.

    And then, a little further down: "Interpretation of ice core and clam shell data suggests that between 800 and 1300, the regions around the fjords of southern Greenland experienced a relatively mild climate several degrees Celsius higher than usual in the North Atlantic,[40] with trees and herbaceous plants growing, and livestock being farmed. Barley was grown as a crop up to the 70th parallel.[41] What is verifiable is that the ice cores indicate Greenland has had dramatic temperature shifts many times over the past 100,000 years."

    Greenland has melted many times, most recently in the 1930s. None of it was human-caused, and the record suggests that Greenland has an unique climate, dependent upon or influenced by factors that are different from those that affect Europe or the Arctic generally.

    Climate is complex.

    The reality is that the current melt in Greenland is proof of... nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    Sounds familiar...

    John. There are no such things as 'alternative facts'. Get used to it, and don't try them on us here. You just appear silly. Seriously.
    Yes, there are "alternative facts" - like the "97%" one. It's a "political fact" used in "consensus science".

    Cheers,
    John.
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geftb View Post
    In a world of lies there will always be an alternative fact.
    In a world of lies, the most revolutionary thing you can do is to tell the truth. No matter what it costs.
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  27. #24352
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Christian my a$$
    Not sure how you're defining "Christian" but let me say one thing only - I agree that he is not, in fact, a Christian. Whatever the Protestant and American religions are (including Pentecostalism), and without meaning any offence, they are not very much like Christianity at all. They are about as like Christianity as a portrait of Bob Hawke with the face erased is a "portrait of Bob Hawke."

    This is easy to see if you take a look at historical Christianity, such as Catholicism or Greek Orthodoxy or Coptic Christianity, or anything else older than Luther's revolt. All of them have the holy sacrifice of the mass and seven sacraments. More importantly, these things are the very heart of the religion, around which the entire religious activity of the Christian turns. Without them you're not just missing some elements or other of the real thing, you're missing the guts of it. It would be like inventing a game and calling it "cricket" but without bowling or batting, just fielders throwing the ball to each other and at the stumps. The field positions could all exist (cover, point, third man, whatever) and there could be furious debates over whether slips are really necessary, because you know, there's no batting...

    So, that's that. As for what he's doing, none of it accords with historical Christian behaviour either. Not one element. He's being a loudmouth about religion when the traditional approach would be to judge prudently that nothing is to be gained by speaking, and much to be risked; he's not doctrinally traditional anyway; he is going directly contrary to the Gospel, which instructs us, "Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you." He's being "torn" and he's blaming the attackers, instead of reflecting on what he's done to bring it on.

    There's no Christianity involved here, but of course Christ will wear the hatred, as always. But that part, at least, isn't new.

    Regards,
    John.
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

  28. #24353
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    There you go thinking for yourself again John.
    Even if I don't agree with all of it. Hear hear!

  29. #24354
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    This Folau and religious 'freedom to be spiteful' is painful.
    It's watching the whole anti-gay marriage, last desperate gasp to protect what exactly, all over again.

    The guy blurts out his missionary style statement commanding people to act a certain way (that he considers appropriate), while surreptitiously calling them names, and its an expression of faith?
    An expression of teenage embarrassing cringe.

    As for the zealots forking in $2million - maybe someone hasn't mentioned the homeless to them?
    Christian my a$$

    I worked at Ozenam House in my youth work years in the early 80's.
    It's run by St Vinnies: https://www.vinnies.org.au/
    They do a serious job providing quality service without the look at us ho har. I post this as a juxtaposition to the sad and misguided actions of Folau and his financial supporters.

    Ozanam House $47 million redevelopment a boost for homeless people in Melbourne | Herald Sun

    The new centre — the biggest homelessness facility in Australia — will for the first time be open to women and LGBTIQ people.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.




  30. #24355
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    No, it's a trick. The way it's done is to frame the question a certain way, omit the total of the scientists asked from the results, and then present the number as though it represents something it doesn't.

    So, the alarmist says, "we must act now, in serious and large scale ways, to address climate change." Very few scientists will agree with that. But to support it, you ask scientists if they agree that there is climate change, and that it is due in part to human activity. Different question, and says nothing about the level of alarm, or even the level of change, or how much of it is due to human activity.

    And, you ask ten thousand scientists, and two thousand respond. Which ones? The self-selecting cohort who are most interested. 97% of those who respond turn out to agree with the proposition above, not the proposition that the alarnmist political activists are actually selling, and which they use the "97%" figure to support. From that Wikipedia article, "97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are contributing to global warming."

    So, do we know that 97% of climate scientists agree that human-caused global warming is a crisis? No, we know that 97% of those who responded, agree that
    humans are contributing to global warming.

    See through it now?



    I see. Let's read the very next sentence of the Wikipedia article. "The Norse settlements, such as Brattahlíð, thrived for centuries but disappeared sometime in the 15th century, perhaps at the onset of the Little Ice Age."

    Oh, so it got colder, like the rest of Europe.

    And then, a little further down: "Interpretation of ice core and clam shell data suggests that between 800 and 1300, the regions around the fjords of southern Greenland experienced a relatively mild climate several degrees Celsius higher than usual in the North Atlantic,[40] with trees and herbaceous plants growing, and livestock being farmed. Barley was grown as a crop up to the 70th parallel.[41] What is verifiable is that the ice cores indicate Greenland has had dramatic temperature shifts many times over the past 100,000 years."

    Greenland has melted many times, most recently in the 1930s. None of it was human-caused, and the record suggests that Greenland has an unique climate, dependent upon or influenced by factors that are different from those that affect Europe or the Arctic generally.

    Climate is complex.

    The reality is that the current melt in Greenland is proof of... nothing.



    Yes, there are "alternative facts" - like the "97%" one. It's a "political fact" used in "consensus science".

    Cheers,
    John.
    There are facts and there is spin, alternate facts are spin. Global warming is fact, the evidence overwhelmingly points to a human cause. The only point of conjecture is just how bad it will be and how fast it will happen.
    I take issue with your statement that factors affecting the climate of Greenland are different to factors affecting Europe and the Arctic. It’s all linked we live in a closed system...it’s called the earths atmosphere. The only factors that cause variables are geography, ocean currents and atmospheric temperatures.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  31. #24356
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    No, it's a trick. The way it's done is to frame the question a certain way, omit the total of the scientists asked from the results, and then present the number as though it represents something it doesn't. So, the alarmist says, "we must act now, in serious and large scale ways, to address climate change." Very few scientists will agree with that. But to support it, you ask scientists if they agree that there is climate change, and that it is due in part to human activity. Different question, and says nothing about the level of alarm, or even the level of change, or how much of it is due to human activity.And, you ask ten thousand scientists, and two thousand respond. Which ones? The self-selecting cohort who are most interested. 97% of those who respond turn out to agree with the proposition above, not the proposition that the alarnmist political activists are actually selling, and which they use the "97%" figure to support. From that Wikipedia article, "97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are contributing to global warming."So, do we know that 97% of climate scientists agree that human-caused global warming is a crisis? No, we know that 97% of those who responded, agree that humans are contributing to global warming. See through it now?I see. Let's read the very next sentence of the Wikipedia article. "The Norse settlements, such as Brattahlíð, thrived for centuries but disappeared sometime in the 15th century, perhaps at the onset of the Little Ice Age."Oh, so it got colder, like the rest of Europe.And then, a little further down: "Interpretation of ice core and clam shell data suggests that between 800 and 1300, the regions around the fjords of southern Greenland experienced a relatively mild climate several degrees Celsius higher than usual in the North Atlantic,[40] with trees and herbaceous plants growing, and livestock being farmed. Barley was grown as a crop up to the 70th parallel.[41] What is verifiable is that the ice cores indicate Greenland has had dramatic temperature shifts many times over the past 100,000 years."Greenland has melted many times, most recently in the 1930s. None of it was human-caused, and the record suggests that Greenland has an unique climate, dependent upon or influenced by factors that are different from those that affect Europe or the Arctic generally. Climate is complex.The reality is that the current melt in Greenland is proof of... nothing. Yes, there are "alternative facts" - like the "97%" one. It's a "political fact" used in "consensus science".Cheers,John.
    There are facts and there is spin, alternate facts are spin. Global warming is fact, the evidence overwhelmingly points to a human cause. The only point of conjecture is just how bad it will be and how fast it will happen.I take issue with your statement that factors affecting the climate of Greenland are different to factors affecting Europe and the Arctic. It’s all linked we live in a closed system...it’s called the earths atmosphere. The only factors that cause variables are geography, ocean currents and atmospheric temperatures.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  32. #24357
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I wonder how much heavenly real estate they imagine a couple of million Aussie bucks will buy?

  33. #24358
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    My secretary had to stop answering the phone because she was just getting so sick of the abuse. I had one that I’ve passed on to the police that was threatening to cut my throat.”However, he felt it was important, as a religious leader, to give an alternative view to Folau’s.
    “Honestly, there is nothing in the scriptures that condemns what we now understand as same-sex attracted people,” he says. “Infidelity is condemned. They don’t know what same-sex attraction is. It’s a very complex thing.
    “Bad biblical scholarship always leads to human suffering, and that’s exactly what we’re seeing in this case.”
    Fr Bower says he would love to sit down and talk to Folau.
    “I would like to say, ‘Look mate, I understand you actually believe that you are offering hope and help to LGBTI people, but what I need you to do is listen to their voice and hear how they’re receiving what you’re saying. They’re hearing condemnation and marginalisation and vilification. I just hope you can hear their voice.’”
    I am reposting this because you need to read it. You can’t just ignore these people by saying they aren’t true Christians.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  34. #24359
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    My secretary had to stop answering the phone because she was just getting so sick of the abuse. I had one that I’ve passed on to the police that was threatening to cut my throat.”However, he felt it was important, as a religious leader, to give an alternative view to Folau’s.
    “Honestly, there is nothing in the scriptures that condemns what we now understand as same-sex attracted people,” he says. “Infidelity is condemned. They don’t know what same-sex attraction is. It’s a very complex thing.
    “Bad biblical scholarship always leads to human suffering, and that’s exactly what we’re seeing in this case.”
    Fr Bower says he would love to sit down and talk to Folau.
    “I would like to say, ‘Look mate, I understand you actually believe that you are offering hope and help to LGBTI people, but what I need you to do is listen to their voice and hear how they’re receiving what you’re saying. They’re hearing condemnation and marginalisation and vilification. I just hope you can hear their voice.’”
    I am reposting this because you need to read it. You can’t just ignore these people by saying they aren’t true Christians.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  35. #24360
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Sorry about the double posts it’s not intentional.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

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