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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #23941
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Really Ian, statistics have never been your strength, have they? Emissions have risen at a steady level but not because the population has grown. The per capita figure is down because the population has grown at a faster rate than emissions.

    But, in any case, while Australia should be setting a much better example and helping ourselves and our neighbours by actually reducing emissions, it is our hell-bent mission to maximise coal exports that is the real issue and our government's failure to invest in development and manufacture of alternatives.

    Rick
    So - you kick off with a personal attack, yet at other times ie when you aren't doing it; you rail against such attacks.

    Then you say emissions have increased for reasons other than population increase.

    But then you say emissions are decreasing because of population growth.

    Ha ha. I'm so glad you've given up your day job.

    BTW - I'm about to start today's day job - after I hang the ex's washing for her. At the end of the day, I'll bill over $4,500 for the day's work. It involves analysis - some of it statistical. Slag away all you like - I'll take my client's vote of confidence over yours.

  2. #23942
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I then wonder why you fail to see the irony in your description of the Afghanistan incident as 'old news' then. If we did not have whistleblowers and journalists with the courage and wherewithal to expose such matters, what brakes would we have on further atrocities? Are you really so naive to think that our governments and agencies are inherently beyond reproach and we did not need investigative journalism and protection of whistleblowers? Australia is too rapidly developing into a paranoid, secretive, police state with a population too scared by irresponsible media and politicians to respond. Time to wake up.

    Rick

  3. #23943
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    So - you kick off with a personal attack, yet at other times ie when you aren't doing it; you rail against such attacks.

    Then you say emissions have increased for reasons other than population increase.

    But then you say emissions are decreasing because of population growth.

    Ha ha. I'm so glad you've given up your day job.

    BTW - I'm about to start today's day job - after I hang the ex's washing for her. At the end of the day, I'll bill over $4,500 for the day's work. It involves analysis - some of it statistical. Slag away all you like - I'll take my client's vote of confidence over yours.
    Pretty much in a nutshell why no reasonable person would bother discussing anything with you.

    Rick

  4. #23944
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I then wonder why you fail to see the irony in your description of the Afghanistan incident as 'old news' then. If we did not have whistleblowers and journalists with the courage and wherewithal to expose such matters, what brakes would we have on further atrocities? Are you really so naive to think that our governments and agencies are inherently beyond reproach and we did not need investigative journalism and protection of whistleblowers? Australia is too rapidly developing into a paranoid, secretive, police state with a population too scared by irresponsible media and politicians to respond. Time to wake up.

    Rick
    You're back in the 50's with that sort of thinking.

    The IoT thread has some relevance to this.

  5. #23945
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Pretty much in a nutshell why no reasonable person would bother discussing anything with you.

    Rick
    Presumably you define yourself as "reasonable"? Bye bye then..

    Incidentally, the post you made earlier, about statistics, wasn't reasonable. Far from it in fact, so maybe there's still room for discussion. Look at it again. Look at the energy intensity issue. I posted the data. Can you analyse it?

  6. #23946
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I then wonder why you fail to see the irony in your description of the Afghanistan incident as 'old news' then. If we did not have whistleblowers and journalists with the courage and wherewithal to expose such matters, what brakes would we have on further atrocities? Are you really so naive to think that our governments and agencies are inherently beyond reproach and we did not need investigative journalism and protection of whistleblowers? Australia is too rapidly developing into a paranoid, secretive, police state with a population too scared by irresponsible media and politicians to respond. Time to wake up.

    Rick
    Pretty much in a nutshell why no reasonable person would bother debating with you - any actual attempt to read and understand a post seems impaired by your apparent inability to get past your prejudices so I guess I can understand your fallback of simply reverting to personal insults.

    Also pretty much why I gave up on this thread and on much of the forum itself - the sad and narrow minded prejudices of small minded and angry individuals who can’t engage in rational discussion.
    Larks

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  7. #23947
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    You two really make me laugh. You typically enter a discussion with terms like 'bleating', you demonize everyone who disagrees with you on anything, you make no attempt to understand any response and then you pick up the stumps and go off squealing to mummy when anyone calls out your own offensive statements! Grow up!!

    Rick

  8. #23948
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    This is like car crash TV - you know you shouldn’t go back and look but just can’t help it..........
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  9. #23949
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    This is like car crash TV - you know you shouldn’t go back and look but just can’t help it..........
    It's hilarious. The lefties bleat away non-stop.... never bringing anything sensible to the table. Reminds me of the Greens - nothing but "tear it down"... never anything sensible to contribute. Never anything that will actually work. Never compromise... it's just all wrong as far as they're concerned.

  10. #23950
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.




  11. #23951
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    This is like car crash TV - you know you shouldn’t go back and look but just can’t help it..........
    Nice to see you back Greg, I may not agree with you on a few things but as my youngest daughter said at the age of 3-4, that’s just the way life is.
    The social contract that bestows authority — both moral and legal — on our political leaders is struck on the trust that they know what they are doing and will always act in our best interests:

  12. #23952
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Did someone suggest the Libs are less that pure?
    Silly Rabbit.

    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  13. #23953
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    It's hilarious. The lefties bleat away non-stop.... never bringing anything sensible to the table. Reminds me of the Greens - nothing but "tear it down"... never anything sensible to contribute. Never anything that will actually work. Never compromise... it's just all wrong as far as they're concerned.
    Outrageous hypocrisy. Your mob took us into Iraq in a lie, is actively expanding our coal exports in the belief that coal is good, is defying every decent energy company and economist in the country in trying to expand domestic coal-fired power, in the face of looming extinctions and drowning neighbours, can think of no better solution to refugee management than imprisoning them indefinitely and are driving the economy into a ditch - but we're the bad guys.

    And read your own posts and see how offensive you really are.

    Rick

  14. #23954
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Is there really such a thing as 'car crash TV'?

    Rick

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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    And read your own posts and see how offensive you really are.
    I've been ruminating on the prospect of self awareness for people like BF.
    Generous as your intention is Rick, I'd put it in the futile basket.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...d-power-plants

    I remember hearing Peter Singer (not the animal rights one) describe a lecture he gave to US Airforce Pilots on the efficacy of drones. One spotty teenager in a remote control station in the USA had more successful missions than all combat pilots combined during the early months of the Iraq war. You can imagine their reaction. He likened it to how the knights of old must have felt when they heard about guns.

    Change doesn't come easily when your invested hard and fast in something.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  16. #23956
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    hahahahahahaaaaa

    Al Gore thinks even the Australian government will change course on its policy of supporting coal mines, because it is common sense!!!!!
    It was common sense 20 years ago.
    What is he talking about?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...fuel-dinosaurs


    But that is good;
    “So, they are kind of in the position of Wily E Coyote whose legs are moving furiously, even as he goes off the cliff, waiting for the pull of gravity to pull him down into the canyon below.
    Last edited by gypsie; 06-06-2019 at 11:08 PM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  17. #23957
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Even John Hewson, who knows a little about economics - and integrity, states that it is incredibly stupid for any new coalmines to be started in Australia.

    Rick

  18. #23958
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Nice to see you back Greg, I may not agree with you on a few things but as my youngest daughter said at the age of 3-4, that’s just the way life is.
    thanks Gary - though I guess I must have tripped and fallen down a hatch somewhere, it’s still a little too dark, dank and grubby down here for my gentle disposition, please excuse me while I try and find my way back out....
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  19. #23959
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Australia's actual emissions rose over the last year and continue to rise. They are now at record level and we have a government committed to doing nothing about it.

    Rick
    Rick, tell me what the thinking is on this, because I really don't get it. Australia's emissions make no difference, really, do they? And if that's true, then why do we think it so urgent that we get them down? Is it just symbolic? If so, why all the heat?

    Regards,
    John.
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

  20. #23960
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I think it's symbolic to some extent but the point is that it will take a fully-blown international effort to avoid catastrophic warming. If we who can choose not to do our bit then how can we expect others to do so? In any case, pollution is pollution and every little bit does damage. The steps we should be taking are really not very difficult. We just need to stop being so damned selfish and paranoid.

    Rick

  21. #23961
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    As I've said many times, the more significant contribution Australia can and should make is in innovation and leadership on renewables. We have taken in bucketloads of income from coal exports and we should be using that windfall to fund meaningful development here and elsewhere. There was a time when Australia strived to be a really good global citizen. That is now long gone, sadly and I see little prospect of us taking such a role with today's pathetic excuse for political leadership.

    Rick

  22. #23962
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Rick, what if instead of being a selfish pig, you're just not convinced that radical action is warranted, especially not radical action that costs a significant amount?

    Watch this and you'll see what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN_oynx1D8w (Ignore the title of the video, it's just rational and informed guys giving what appear to be sincere opinions.).

    Regards,
    John.
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

  23. #23963
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    thanks Gary - though I guess I must have tripped and fallen down a hatch somewhere, it’s still a little too dark, dank and grubby down here for my gentle disposition, please excuse me while I try and find my way back out....
    That's exactly how I feel!
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

  24. #23964
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    When the major scientific bodies across the planet tell us that action on climate change is urgent and essential then I'm convinced. Sorry, but I've looked at a lot of information on this over a long time and am really well and truly over all the pretenders wishing to challenge those views, for whatever reason. I love this planet and its wildlife and cultures. I do expect people to avoid wrecking it.

    Rick

  25. #23965
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    Rick, what if instead of being a selfish pig, you're just not convinced that radical action is warranted, especially not radical action that costs a significant amount?

    Watch this and you'll see what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN_oynx1D8w (Ignore the title of the video, it's just rational and informed guys giving what appear to be sincere opinions.).

    Regards,
    John.
    What price do you put on survival? What price do you put on preventing low lying countries being inundated?
    The social contract that bestows authority — both moral and legal — on our political leaders is struck on the trust that they know what they are doing and will always act in our best interests:

  26. #23966
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    thanks Gary - though I guess I must have tripped and fallen down a hatch somewhere, it’s still a little too dark, dank and grubby down here for my gentle disposition, please excuse me while I try and find my way back out....
    How about we see you a bit more often upstairs then?
    The social contract that bestows authority — both moral and legal — on our political leaders is struck on the trust that they know what they are doing and will always act in our best interests:

  27. #23967
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I've been 'off air' for a couple of days, central NSW has some net connections that my Mac did not recognise.

    "I think it's symbolic to some extent but the point is that it will take a fully-blown international effort to avoid catastrophic warming."
    …..and i doubt that we are at all capable as a species of any effective such actions. We are too short term thinking. And those in power? I don't think they are at all interested, only in power and the perks it brings. After all they'll be dead soon and don't care……………………… "Lets just dictate some soporific press release. In the meantime, another glass of of Pol Roger please……………."
    Last edited by skuthorp; 06-07-2019 at 04:27 AM.

  28. #23968
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    And as for 'press freedom', forget it, both majors will rubber stamp anything that shields them in power from investigation.

    And the Murdoch organisation complaining of that which they have supported and promoted for decades….?


  29. #23969
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Jeff, when did countries first start meeting for talks on climate, was it in the 80s? What has been achieved? A world wide campaign to deny the science, a carefully worded document and an action plan that doesn’t actually commit anyone to doing anything.
    Disaster movies are all correct in one detail, they all start with a scientist being ignored.
    The social contract that bestows authority — both moral and legal — on our political leaders is struck on the trust that they know what they are doing and will always act in our best interests:

  30. #23970
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    How about we see you a bit more often upstairs then?

    I'm trying Gary.....just not getting much time lately and haven’t really had much inspiration to spend time back on a computer when I’m away from work, particularly when there’s been so much more to do down here around the Snowies - but I’m hoping to be done here and back home and back on to the H28 full time by Christmas, or very shortly afterwards

    .........now I’ve just got to find that slimy slippery ladder out of here......
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  31. #23971
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post

    Watch this and you'll see what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN_oynx1D8w (Ignore the title of the video, it's just rational and informed guys giving what appear to be sincere opinions.).

    Regards,
    John.
    Thanks John, interesting and thought provoking.

    In terms of radical action though - I for one would much rather see much more of it more focused on getting rid of all plastics and cleaning up the ocean.

    But the cynic in me wonders if that doesn’t get the traction that climate change does because there’s no denying that we as a race are causing the issue so there’s no "research industry" in it, such as there is in the climate change debate.

    It seems that as long as scientists can argue back and forward about an issue and never actually resolve it they can continue to justify and get funding from someone somewhere who wants to prove their side of the issue.

    It also seems that every "save the world from climate change" solution comes with considerable expense to most and tremendous profit to someone, unless the solution is to stop the demand for transport, communications, food, entertainment etc completely and go back to absolutely complete self sustainment. (I wonder how many of those students recently protesting for the environment would have been prepared to give up their IPhones, iPads, laptops, LED TV’s and dreams of a new car?).
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  32. #23972
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    When the major scientific bodies across the planet tell us that action on climate change is urgent and essential then I'm convinced.
    Watch the video, those scientists are not naysayers. You haven’t answered my question. It was not, should China and the USA reduce their emissions, it was why should we, if they aren’t? And even if your answer is, “to set an example,” then why all the heat? Is it so criminally irresponsible not to agree that setting a (probably hopeless) example at significant cost is an urgent priority?

    Actually, I reckon I love nature and its creatures, and people, more than most others I know, so let’s dispense with the “because I care” claim. And I’ve already got nine descendants, and none of them even have children yet, so I reckon I’ve more interest in the future than any DINK or Yuppie greenie, so we can dispense with that line as well. Just the actual reasoning, Rick, let’s hear it.

    Regards,
    John.
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

  33. #23973
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I’ve also personally planted hundreds of trees, which I reckon is hundreds more than most Greens voters. Just sayin’.
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

  34. #23974
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Jeff, when did countries first start meeting for talks on climate, was it in the 80s? What has been achieved? A world wide campaign to deny the science, a carefully worded document and an action plan that doesn’t actually commit anyone to doing anything.
    Disaster movies are all correct in one detail, they all start with a scientist being ignored.
    In fact a lot has been achieved. Many countries are well ahead of us in reducing emissions and other forms of pollution and several countries are investing very heavily in development of renewables. We should be with that group.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The social contract that bestows authority — both moral and legal — on our political leaders is struck on the trust that they know what they are doing and will always act in our best interests:

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