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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #23031
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I wonder if SLOMO wrote Rudd a ''thanks for the good idea'' card?
    Naaaah .....it was all his idea ....

  2. #23032
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I see the next move is to save Molan from last position on the senate paper……………….
    The right attempting to ensure that their members survive the coming storm.

  3. #23033
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Labor backs Greens plan to block Coalition from underwriting coal power

    Labor and the Greens will attempt to prevent the Morrison government from underwriting new coal-fired power as the energy policy battle moves into its next phase.

    Labor on Tuesday resolved to support a Greens bill stopping the commonwealth from providing financial assistance to coal-fired power plants, and there is an effort to secure the requisite parliamentary numbers for an upset as the Morrison government moves ahead with its controversial energy package.

    Negotiations are under way with crossbenchers in both chambers.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ing-coal-power

  4. #23034
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Kerryn Phelps wins Labor support for refugee transfers but negotiations continue

    Labor has agreed to support the independent MP Kerryn Phelps’ bill for emergency medical transfers from offshore detention, but has demanded changes that would keep a ministerial power to refuse transfers.

    Phelps has reiterated that “clinicians rather than bureaucrats” should make medical decisions about transfers but said she was open to “ministerial oversight”.

    The Phelps bill requires the temporary transfer of all children and their families from offshore detention to Australia for the purpose of medical or psychiatric assessment.

  5. #23035
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    It would seem pretty clear that every last one of the poor buggers would be suffering from serious psychological harm and be in need of treatment that is not available on Manus. Indeed no treatment will be effective for as long as they are in endless detention.

  6. #23036
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    It would seem pretty clear that every last one of the poor buggers would be suffering from serious psychological harm and be in need of treatment that is not available on Manus. Indeed no treatment will be effective for as long as they are in endless detention.
    The harm done to these people will be permanent .

    Phelps has reiterated that “clinicians rather than bureaucrats” should make medical decisions about transfers but said she was open to “ministerial oversight”.

    Not while Dutton is in charge !

  7. #23037
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Albo with some insights.
    I like Albo.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...s-coup-culture

    “If everyone just talks to everyone they agree with right now, by definition, change will not occur.”
    “A critical component of progress is engaging with people you don’t agree with – everything else is the status quo.”

    Reminds me of a book, from a few years back, on how the rise of polarisation in politics coincided with the reduced use of the parliamentary bar for after work drinking.
    'Order Order' it was called.
    Philip K. Dick — 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

  8. #23038
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I like Albo too.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  9. #23039
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  10. #23040
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Yep , and he will vote soon. Those kids can see right through the BS.

  11. #23041
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I imagine some sections of the commercial press will now say that Albo is after Bill's job before the election………………...

  12. #23042
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Probably ..... but Labor won`t bite .

  13. #23043
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Australians no longer trust their democracy, survey finds.

    The public’s satisfaction with the way democracy works in Australia has crashed, prompting fears that future governments could be perceived as illegitimate by most voters.

    A new survey has captured the dark mood of Australia’s electorate, with voters fuming that politicians are rarely held to account for breaking promises, barely one in three voters saying they trust the federal government, and the majority of Australians saying they dislike the conflict-driven politics of federal parliament and want a different system.

    In 2007, 86% of voters were satisfied with Australia’s democracy, but that figure dropped to 72% by 2010 (where it plateaued for three years) and then went into freefall from 2013, plummeting from 72% to 41% between 2013 and 2018.

    The top five reforms favoured in the survey include 1: limiting money donated to parties and spent in elections; 2: the right for voters to recall ineffective local MPs; 3: giving all MPs a free vote in parliament; 4: co-designing policies with ordinary Australians; and 5: citizen juries to solve complex problems that parliament can’t fix.

    Reforms aimed at improving the practice of representative politics were the most popular, followed by reforms aimed at giving citizens a greater say.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...y-survey-finds

  14. #23044
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I say, I say BM, we can't have that. Direct democracy? No political parties? (well the constitution is on side there). And as for limiting the political bribes???? Sacrilige!!
    Any more of that and the public might decide to sack all of them!!

  15. #23045
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)]WITH JONATHAN PEARLMAN
    https://www.australianforeignaffairs.com/afa-weekly
    [/COLOR]
    Rising seas diplomacy

    [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)]Off the northern tip of the Pacific nation of Tuvalu, an anti-aircraft gun emplacement juts above the surf. Built by American troops during World War II to fight the Japanese, the concrete installation was originally on land but is now offshore, a tiny island created by the rising seas and changing shorelines. Today, as new regional rivalries disrupt the Pacific, local leaders are pointing out the obvious: the seas now pose a greater threat than guns.
    During a visit to Australia this week, Tuvalu’s prime minister, Enele Sopoaga, warned Scott Morrison that a failure to address climate change risked undermining the so-called “Pacific pivot”, Canberra’s efforts to bolster ties in the area to prevent powers such as China gaining influence. Australia has recently boosted its Pacific aid budget, promised deeper military cooperation and announced plans for a naval base in Papua New Guinea. However, as Mr Sopoaga told ABC News, “We cannot be regional partners under this step-up initiative, genuine and durable partners, unless the government of Australia takes a more progressive response to climate change.”
    Leaders such as Mr Sopoaga want Canberra to scrap plans for Adani’s new coalmine in Queensland. He said that his nation, whose atolls and reefs are on average two metres above sea level, could be “totally destroy[ed]” without urgent action on climate change. Fiji has already begun relocating communities affected by coastal erosion and flooding. But in minuscule countries such as Tuvalu, where sea levels are rising four millimetres a year and land masses are constantly changing, threatened communities have nowhere to go. New Zealand has proposed introducing a special visa for climate change refugees, but Pacific nations have largely rejected the idea because they would prefer to keep living in their homes. “Tuvaluans want to continue to be Tuvaluans,” Golriz Ghahraman, a New Zealand MP, said in August.
    Tuvalu’s appeal to Australia came as delegates from almost 200 countries gathered in Poland to discuss the climate change commitments agreed to in Paris three years ago. Australia will be represented by the environment minister, Melissa Price, who is attending despite Morrison telling 2GB last month: “I’m not going to spend money on global climate conferences and all that nonsense.” He also suggested he would end Australia’s contribution to the global Green Climate Fund, which helps developing countries respond to climate change. (Per capita, Australia is the fourteenth-largest donor, but has the second-highest emissions of the forty-three donor nations.) Morrison has insisted that Australia will easily meet its Paris emissions targets without further action, even though government data has repeatedly indicated that it will not. The latest figures, released last Friday, showed that emissions increased last year and were at their highest levels since 2011.
    When Kevin Rudd, as prime minister, pressed for global action on climate change, the Coalition claimed that Australia should not try to lead the way. Now, Australia is a laggard. In September, the Pacific Islands Forum, an organisation of Pacific nations that includes Australia, released a statement declaring climate change to be “the single greatest threat” to Pacific people. But Australia allegedly tried to water down the wording, to the consternation of Pacific leaders.
    Australia’s approach to climate change is crucial to its future, but it also has international ramifications. In Poland, Australia is reportedly planning to join other Pacific nations in producing a joint statement calling for action on climate change. For Australia, which is concerned about the growing influence in the region of countries such as China and Russia, this act would be an important display of solidarity with its neighbours. For Pacific leaders, Australia’s support is likely to be just as important as whether China or some other nation buys its wharves, or funds its undersea cables, or builds its next set of gun emplacements.


    [/COLOR]
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  16. #23046
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I say, I say BM, we can't have that. Direct democracy? No political parties? (well the constitution is on side there). And as for limiting the political bribes???? Sacrilige!!
    Any more of that and the public might decide to sack all of them!!
    Or can we ? I really Like this one :

    2: the right for voters to recall ineffective local MPs;

  17. #23047
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I imagine some sections of the commercial press will now say that Albo is after Bill's job before the election………………...
    Dont you learn? Leadership changes happen after the election.

  18. #23048
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I see that Freydenberg is involved in a dodgy approval for a development on a RAMSAR wetland. By the Walker Corp., a big Lib/Nat, and labour, Donor.

    Who'd a thunk it eh?

    Dodgy deals in Queensland?

  19. #23049
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Dont you learn? Leadership changes happen after the election.

    Leadership questions and speculation by the press are an all time favorite during slow news week......

  20. #23050
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)]WITH JONATHAN PEARLMAN
    https://www.australianforeignaffairs.com/afa-weekly
    [/COLOR]
    Rising seas diplomacy

    [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)]Off the northern tip of the Pacific nation of Tuvalu, an anti-aircraft gun emplacement juts above the surf. Built by American troops during World War II to fight the Japanese, the concrete installation was originally on land but is now offshore, a tiny island created by the rising seas and changing shorelines. Today, as new regional rivalries disrupt the Pacific, local leaders are pointing out the obvious: the seas now pose a greater threat than guns.
    During a visit to Australia this week, Tuvalu’s prime minister, Enele Sopoaga, warned Scott Morrison that a failure to address climate change risked undermining the so-called “Pacific pivot”, Canberra’s efforts to bolster ties in the area to prevent powers such as China gaining influence. Australia has recently boosted its Pacific aid budget, promised deeper military cooperation and announced plans for a naval base in Papua New Guinea. However, as Mr Sopoaga told ABC News, “We cannot be regional partners under this step-up initiative, genuine and durable partners, unless the government of Australia takes a more progressive response to climate change.”
    Leaders such as Mr Sopoaga want Canberra to scrap plans for Adani’s new coalmine in Queensland. He said that his nation, whose atolls and reefs are on average two metres above sea level, could be “totally destroy[ed]” without urgent action on climate change. Fiji has already begun relocating communities affected by coastal erosion and flooding. But in minuscule countries such as Tuvalu, where sea levels are rising four millimetres a year and land masses are constantly changing, threatened communities have nowhere to go. New Zealand has proposed introducing a special visa for climate change refugees, but Pacific nations have largely rejected the idea because they would prefer to keep living in their homes. “Tuvaluans want to continue to be Tuvaluans,” Golriz Ghahraman, a New Zealand MP, said in August.
    Tuvalu’s appeal to Australia came as delegates from almost 200 countries gathered in Poland to discuss the climate change commitments agreed to in Paris three years ago. Australia will be represented by the environment minister, Melissa Price, who is attending despite Morrison telling 2GB last month: “I’m not going to spend money on global climate conferences and all that nonsense.” He also suggested he would end Australia’s contribution to the global Green Climate Fund, which helps developing countries respond to climate change. (Per capita, Australia is the fourteenth-largest donor, but has the second-highest emissions of the forty-three donor nations.) Morrison has insisted that Australia will easily meet its Paris emissions targets without further action, even though government data has repeatedly indicated that it will not. The latest figures, released last Friday, showed that emissions increased last year and were at their highest levels since 2011.
    When Kevin Rudd, as prime minister, pressed for global action on climate change, the Coalition claimed that Australia should not try to lead the way. Now, Australia is a laggard. In September, the Pacific Islands Forum, an organisation of Pacific nations that includes Australia, released a statement declaring climate change to be “the single greatest threat” to Pacific people. But Australia allegedly tried to water down the wording, to the consternation of Pacific leaders.
    Australia’s approach to climate change is crucial to its future, but it also has international ramifications. In Poland, Australia is reportedly planning to join other Pacific nations in producing a joint statement calling for action on climate change. For Australia, which is concerned about the growing influence in the region of countries such as China and Russia, this act would be an important display of solidarity with its neighbours. For Pacific leaders, Australia’s support is likely to be just as important as whether China or some other nation buys its wharves, or funds its undersea cables, or builds its next set of gun emplacements.


    [/COLOR]
    Good post Peter.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  21. #23051
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  22. #23052
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    There is no way we will meet our Paris targets, and the Coalition couldn’t care less

    On Friday the government released the latest quarterly greenhouse gas emissions figures.
    For once the government did not try to bury the news, but they certainly were not eager to highlight the figures which show that our emissions continue to rise.

    We are nowhere near a path towards reaching our Paris commitment to reduce emissions by 26% from 2005 level by 2030.



    https://www.theguardian.com/business...ldnt-care-less

  23. #23053
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I am undecided whether Labour and the cross bench got rolled, or not last night. But better to fight and run away, and live to fight another day I suppose.

  24. #23054
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I am undecided whether Labour and the cross bench got rolled, or not last night. But better to fight and run away, and live to fight another day I suppose.


    In the desperation of the final sitting day, Scott Morrison and Bill Shorten sacrifice dignity in favour of reality TV politics

    The only tool or tactic in the prime ministerial arsenal, as it turned out, given the numbers were against him in both chambers, and not for turning, was running down the clock.


    Not very dignified perhaps, this grim, last-day-of-school attrition; the spectre of Cory Bernardi, the Liberal defector, helming your filibuster for you in the Senate. But any port in a storm, and Thursday was a typhoon.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...rity-is-waning

  25. #23055
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I don't think that will win politicians any more fans, and the sewer that is the Lib/Nat/Bernardi faction even less so.

  26. #23056
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    17 of 21

    Newest

    Newer


    Older
    Oldest


    20h ago11:48
    Thank you for all the messages you have sent through about your standouts from the 2018 Australian political year – and thank you for your well-wishes. I’m not repeating them here, because it’s a bit like retweeting a compliment, but we do appreciate them.
    Allan: What stood out for me in 2018: In the positive: Gay marriage finally getting through with such a majority from the plebiscite. So despite the best attempts by the RWNJ’s to railroad it the people saw through the smoke and mirrors and voted for it.
    In the negative: There is so much that could be listed, but it would fill more than a page. Really it can best be summed up with my amazement that despite everything that this government does and stands for that something like 46% of my fellow citizens still want to vote for this mob. I genuinely stand in despair that this could be so.
    Christa and John: 2018 will be remembered as the year when the country narrowly avoided being taken over in an authoritarian nationalist coup led by Peter Dutton and Tony Abbott, which was made a possibility by the ravages visited on society by decline and death of neoliberalism – and the naked self-interest it conditions in politicos.

    And hopefully the year will be remembered as the year when finally the country reversed course and started to recover its soul which had been sacrificed to regressive economic policy that increased inequality, to the persecution of refugees for political gain, and to the far-right ideological fixation that destroyed the possibility of effective climate change and energy policy.
    Rohan: Two moments struck me this year are the following: ONE: Malcolm Turnbull appearing on Q&A after his ejection from the leadership of the Liberal party. He claimed that his government was responsible for the marriage equality vote, eliciting a mixture of scoffs and applause from the audience. His rewriting of history was brazenly false – he and his party found every possible excuse to kick the can of marriage equality down the road – but it also completely minimised the work by marriage equality advocates such as Dr Kerryn Phelps, Magda Szubanski, the ALP, Greens and many others. I nearly spat out my dinner! As Catherine Tate’s Nanwould say ... “What a load of old ****!” TWO: Prime Muppet Scott Morrison (I refuse to call him Scomo – a term of endearment perhaps for someone who is playing on your team, and thus, has a shared goal) claiming that he would remove the ability for schools to use religious discrimination of LGBT students within two weeks. A few months later, and the LNP are kicking the can down the road again … but not before taking time our to shore up their own safety with anti-copy party motions to prevent Morrison being ejected by his party members.
    David: Peter Dutton putting in a huge effort and thinking his numbers men could count, ordering a new chair for the PMs office, booking his whole family to fly first class to Canberra for his ascension, only to discover that Turnbull had developed a cunning plan and Scott Morrison was now PM. Only comparable event I can think of is Malcolm Fraser calling an election to thrash Bill Haydenonly to get back from Government House to discover Bob Hawkewas now opposition leader.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...b04e8ca0923cb8


    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  27. #23057
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    From Waleed Aly, the Age

    "I’ve been thinking about institutions a lot lately. About how if there is anything that characterises our current political moment of disillusionment, anger and a rampant, destructive cynicism, it is that we no longer seem to believe in any institutions at all.
    Try to name one; it’s more difficult than you’d think. Our trust in politics – even in democracy itself – is at an all time low. Whatever belief we once had in the idea that business, for all its self-interest, was aligned with some trickle-down social interest has been blown up by whichever scandal takes your fancy: the banking royal commission; the rapacious practices that delivered the financial crisis; the Libor episode back in 2012, in which small numbers of people easily manipulated interest rates for their own gain.
    The church? See the Royal Commission into child sex abuse. The media? It’s almost embarrassing to have to explain the level to which its trust has eroded. That we now have a US President in open war with journalistic accountability, who has weaponised “fake news” as a way of discrediting whatever very true news he doesn’t like, and that he only profits politically from this, says everything necessary about the media’s standing.
    The High Court? Traditionally, that has been about as esteemed as it gets, but even its trust is eroding. An Essential Survey from 2011 found that 72 per cent of Australians trusted it. This year it was at 61 per cent, which is roughly where it has been for a few years now.
    Perhaps the only thing bucking the trend is our trust in the police – both federal and state – now the most trusted institutions in our country. A Royal Commission might change that, such as the one called in Victoria after this week’s “Lawyer X” or "informer 3838" scandal, in which police were revealed to have used an underworld lawyer as an informant and which may well compromise the prison sentences of some of Victoria’s most notorious criminals.
    But the fact is it has hardly been a scandal-free era for police, anyway. There was the officer who’d posted violent and racist comments under a false name on Facebook, who was meant to be the chief officer in charge of professional standards. There was the suite of appalling videos of unnecessary police brutality, such as the one showing them using capsicum spray and repeated baton blows against a disability pensioner who was defenceless and apparently mentally ill. And there’s the fact that such conduct was cleared upon investigation because, frankly, there is no truly independent investigations process. So far, trust in police has been immune to all this.
    In the maelstrom of the moment I can’t claim to know for sure why this is. My embryonic theory, though, is that our trust is slowly becoming militarised.

    That is, we’re more prepared to trust hard power than we are to trust institutions that guard something more abstract, like rights or systems of government.

    There are very few places in our public square that allow us to reason from principles, rather than gut. As a result we’re less used to thinking this way, less inclined to see how something like the presumption of innocence must be upheld even if it means guilty people go free because of what a society becomes if it starts finding exceptions to this.
    Look, for instance, at how readily we give up on the importance of something like privacy for the sake of security, without even requiring the security benefit being explained to us, as will happen this week with the passage of federal laws to weaken encrypted messaging services. We won’t even have a proper debate about whether the legislation is fit for purpose or whether it will invite awful unintended consequences. There is only pragmatic urgency. It’s why we so repeatedly hear naively circular statements like, “If you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear."
    No doubt, decades of tabloid campaigning about judiciaries being soft on crime have contributed to this, as has the near complete absence of any serious civics education in our society. But the result is that these things – which are the foundations of our entire system of government and justice, things like the confidentiality that exists between lawyer and client – simply lack purchase the way a police force doing “whatever it takes” does.


    In this world of Guantanamo-style reasoning, you convict the bad guys using whatever tools you can: if they don’t fight fair, why should we? The answer, of course, is that police are given the awesome power of state violence and if they are freed from the obligation to fight fairly, then many innocent people will ultimately suffer. But in a world of only concrete outcomes and not of abstract rights, there are no innocent people. An arrest is quickly conflated with guilt. And when your window onto this is terrorism suspects or some underworld figures, you eventually become conditioned to see only the concrete case in front of you. All else is quaint."
    TBC

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    Continued.
    "So, for all the High Court’s bluntness in declaring the police “guilty of reprehensible conduct”, which “corrupt(ed) the criminal justice system”, I’d not be remotely surprised if lots of people who aren’t lawyers or journalists – you know, people from the kinds of elite institutions we no longer trust – don’t understand the fuss.
    I suspect many would lend a sympathetic ear to the unrepentant detective involved in the informer 3838 case who said: “Too bad, we were dealing with an underworld war. People were dying and we were never going to turn our backs on an intelligence source, no matter who they were.”
    That is very much the language of the age. And I suspect that’s because, after all, who will defend the ability of crooks to talk secretly with their lawyers? Who will explain that without this right, a fair trial becomes all but impossible? Those kinds of arguments require us to trust the kinds of institutions that represent them. And really, who’ll do that?

    Waleed Aly is a presenter on The Project."

  29. #23059
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.


    Baseless Liberal fear-mongering.
    About all the LIbnats are really capable of.


    As The Guardian's Greg Jericho writes:

    'It is clear that the Government’s chief weapon for winning the next election is fear and there is zero surprise about it. It is such a well-worn tactic by conservative parties around the world that of course, it is the one which a party led by Scott Morrison would pursue.'


    Fear is everywhere from negative gearing, power prices and power blackouts. Fear that you won’t be able to retire because Labor will steal your money and of course the fear of immigration and terrorism.


    The conservatives have a long history of frightening people. Those of my vintage will well remember Robert Menzies’ “Reds under the beds” campaign. “We are to be invaded by the red hordes from the north,” he shouted loud and clear in every election campaign.

    I remember as a young boy seeing pictures on posters in trams, in the newspapers and shorts at the cinema with pictures depicting the Communist hordes thrusting their way towards us.
    There were others with thousands of Chinese rolling across Sydney Harbour Bridge in their rickshaws with guns and Communist flags.


    The Liberals had conducted a scare campaign about budget deficits and government debt, but in government, Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey forgot all about it.

    The conservatives have been running scare campaigns for decades. Who will forget former Immigration Minister Philip Ruddock demonising asylum seekers, always referring to them as illegals? Never in their scaremongering did the Liberals have the dignity or decency to treat these folk as human beings.

    Ruddock even told us that refugees were so evil and inhuman and violent that they throw their own children overboard. He went on to say that they were bringing diseases to our country. Nothing was left out in their putrid zest for demonising these people.


    Scott Morrison, the Hillsong Christian, at one time even went out of his way to encourage his party to be more destructive with their damnation. Praise the Lord!
    Had Abbott continued in office, their smearing of Muslims may well have reached its zenith during the 2016 Election campaign. However, it is a scare campaign that in its longevity has shown the conservatives to be the Masters of Scare.

    John Howard, together with Bush and Blair, with the use of blatant lies scared the world into believing that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. The consequences of the scare campaign are well known. We are constantly reminded by the right about terrorists and, of course, Muslims.

    More recently, Liberal anti-everything backbenchers conducted a scare campaign against the "Safe Schools" program.
    We have been told that Labor’s negative gearing proposal would wreck the property market and during the election, that a Labor/Greens alliance would be one of chaos.
    Their extravagance of language in these matters knows no bounds. Which of course makes their accusation of a Labor Medicare scare campaign in the 2016 Election bereft of historical conscience

    .

    https://independentaustralia.net/pol...of-scare,12165


  30. #23060
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    To a Tee.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The voters will be struggling to find an institution that hasn't lost it's reputation and authority now.

    There's an opening for a demagog there………..

  32. #23062
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Little thing that really annoys me about the Greens. They've obviously had an "away day" and come up with some ideas. One is to refer to climate change as "Dangerous Climate Change". Straight out of the major parties play book. Let's have a slogan and repeat it ad nauseum. That will convince the voters.

  33. #23063
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    Jan 2002
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The Greens, though in principle I support their basic ideals, are somewhat of a loose cannon given more importance by the vacating of the middle ground by the Conservative side. There's a collection of conflicting ideas there, and some opportunism by candidates. It's too early to see if they become an effective 3rd force.

  34. #23064
    Join Date
    May 2016
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    Pacific drifting
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    The Greens, though in principle I support their basic ideals, are somewhat of a loose cannon given more importance by the vacating of the middle ground by the Conservative side. There's a collection of conflicting ideas there, and some opportunism by candidates. It's too early to see if they become an effective 3rd force.
    They are in a very difficult position.

    First, Rudd made no effort to keep the Greens onside when it mattered .(Quite the opposite).
    Second, hindsight is 20/20 – who could honestly have predicted the all-out culture war that would erupt over climate policy?
    Finally, critics rarely mention that in January 2010 the Greens
    proposed an interim carbon tax until policy certainty could be achieved, but could not get Labor to pay attention.

    The bigger problem for the Greens – indeed, for anyone contemplating sentencing themselves
    to 20 years of boredom, for trying to change the system from within – is the problem of balancing realism with fundamentalism.

    How many compromises do you make before you are fatally compromised, before you become the thing you previously denounced? How long a spoon, when supping with the devil?

    You’re damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. Focus too hard on environmental issues (imagining for a moment that they really are divorced from economic and social ones) and you can be dismissed as a single-issue party for latte-sippers. Pursue a broader agenda, as current leader Richard Di Natale has sought to do, and you stand accused of forgetting your roots.



    Little thing that really annoys me about the Greens. They've obviously had an "away day" and come up with some ideas. One is to refer to climate change as "Dangerous Climate Change". Straight out of the major parties play book. Let's have a slogan and repeat it ad nauseum. That will convince the voters.


    Can the circle of environmental protection and economic growth ever be squared? How do you say “we warned you about all this” without coming across as smug , or alarmist ?

  35. #23065
    Join Date
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    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
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    51,978

    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    "Can the circle of environmental protection and economic growth ever be squared? How do you say “we warned you about all this” without coming across as smug , or alarmist ?"

    Or, when the s**t really hits the fan, becoming blamed for not being more insistent. Because there will be blame allocating and shifting a-plenty in the near distant future.

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