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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #2101
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Labor might do quite well in Newcastle! Federally they're just standing around, hands in pockets watching Tony and Joe do their work for them .

    August 17, 2014

    NSW Liberal Party Chooses not to Contest Looming By-elections

    The NSW Liberal Party has announced it will not be contesting the looming by-elections in Charlestown and Newcastle. As the Liberal Party won both seats at the 2011 election, choosing not to defend them at by-elections creates historyin NSW politics.
    (Click here for by-election profiles of the two electorates.)
    While it has become common for parties not to contest by-elections in its opponent's safe seats, to not contest by-elections in one of its own seats is extra-ordinary.
    The most recent case I can think of took place in Tasmania at the 2009 Pembroke Legislative Council by-election. The last in NSW were the Blayney by-election in 1907 and Moree in 1903.
    Importantly, both Pembroke and Blayney followed scandals involving the sitting member, situations similar to the embarrassment felt by the NSW Liberal Party stemming from revelations at the current ICAC inquiry.

    The Tasmanian Legislative Council is a sleepy chamber largely made up of Independent members. One of the few Labor member in 2009 was Allison Ritchie, who held the eastern Hobart seat of Pembroke. In 2009 a series of scandals arose concerning Ritchie's employment of relatives and employing staff beyond entitlement after leaving ministerial office. She resigned her seat in mid-2009, and at the by-election in August 2009, the Labor Party chose not to nominate a candidate. The by-election was won by Liberal Vanessa Goodwin, becoming the first Liberal member of the Tasmanian Legislative Council in two decades.
    In NSW you need to go back to 1907 to find the last occasion at which a party did not contest a by-election in a seat it won at the previous election.

    http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/...elections.html



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  2. #2102
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    See all the data on how Australia's refugee intake compares with other countries.


    • Refugees resettled: Australia ranks 2nd in terms of the number of refugees it takes through the UN humanitarian program.
    • Refugees recognised: Australia ranks 32nd in terms of the number of people who are found to be refugees after arriving in Australia seeking asylum.
    • Total intake: Australia ranks 22nd in terms of its total refugee intake.


    The Federal Government says Australia's overall refugee intake consists of "offshore resettlement" refugees and "onshore protection" refugees.
    The offshore category refers to the refugees Australia takes through the UN humanitarian program. These are people not already in Australia, who have been identified as refugees by the UN and who typically come from refugee camps around the globe.
    The onshore category refers to people who are found to be refugees after arriving in Australia seeking asylum.
    The refugee council's media release that Ms O'Dwyer's office cites as the source of her information highlights the point that the overall refugee intake consists of both categories. The release says it was issued in response to "political claims and media reports... that Australia takes more refugees per capita than any other nation in the world".
    It said this only referred to offshore resettlement.
    "While Australia has one of the most generous [offshore] refugee resettlement programs, it is false to then claim that it is more generous in receiving refugees [in total] than any other nation."
    VIDEO: Watch John Barron present the facts. (ABC News)
    The council pointed out that very few refugees are processed via resettlement from other countries.
    "Less than one per cent of the world's refugees get access to resettlement in any year, with the bulk of the global protection of refugees being carried out through asylum processes."
    Australia's total refugee intake

    Australia's total annual intake of refugees in 2012 also included 8,367 people who had come to Australia by boat or plane seeking asylum and were recognised as refugees.
    The very next line of the table in the media release that Ms O'Dwyer's office refers to adds the resettled refugees and the recognition refugee numbers together.
    It shows that in 2012, Australia took in 14,304 refugees in total and was ranked 22nd in the world on a per capita basis.
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  3. #2103
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Isn't Fact Check a bitch .
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  4. #2104
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I'm not sure that I'm understanding the statistics properly, but do we perhaps take it that legitimate refugees, like those from Syria, Iraq and other troubled areas, are missing out because we are sidetracked with dealing with the sector of economic refugees from non troubled areas who are trying to get in under the guise of legitimate refugees?

    Aside from that, I suggest that geography might also have something to do with the statistics.
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  5. #2105
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    No. We used to honour obligations but have ceased to do that. Once Immigration used to decide who was a genuine refugee , now we have a politician making blanket calls on no basis but politic polls and whim.
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  6. #2106
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Tony gets better and better. Hard to see his objection seeing the Scots are having a referendum . He's a funny fella.

    Scotland's first minister has said the Australian prime minister's comments on Scottish independence were "foolish, hypocritical and offensive".
    Alex Salmond was speaking after Tony Abbott told the Times it was "hard to see how the world would be helped by an independent Scotland".
    Mr Abbott said those who would like to see the UK break up were "not the friends of justice... [or] freedom".
    The first minister said this was offensive to the people of Scotland.
    Voters in Scotland will go to the polls on 18 September.
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  7. #2107
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I don't really trust statistics without knowing the full details of what they are showing and what they are comparing and those refugee statistics seem a little obscure to me Peter: "lies lies and damn statistics".

    I'd be interested in a comparison of how refugees are treated around the world in their places of refuge and what sort of funding might be allocated for that support - i.e. for legal aid, health, accommodation, translation services. Are some countries that are accepting larger numbers of refugees (such as neighbouring countries to a place of conflict) providing any aid for them, or perhaps relying on UN and other foreign aid agencies and foreign aid funding support, such as is provided by Australia?

    Would it be better in Australia to try and increase the intake and dilute funding per refugee, or maintain an intake number based on available or allocated funding and available support and infrastructure? I'm sure a study of how refugees are fairing around the world based on number of intake and national funding allocation would be valuable.
    Larks

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  8. #2108
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Peter, it appears that Fact Check has a "bitch".

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Isn't Fact Check a bitch .
    Xanthorrea

  9. #2109
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Despite the incoherent mumblings of the ignorant, my comments re refugee statistics are aimed at trying to generate some sensible discussion on the topic. However I am yet again reminded that sensible discussion is well and truly beyond your capability Purri.
    Larks

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  10. #2110
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    I don't really trust statistics without knowing the full details of what they are showing and what they are comparing and those refugee statistics seem a little obscure to me Peter: "lies lies and damn statistics".

    I'd be interested in a comparison of how refugees are treated around the world in their places of refuge and what sort of funding might be allocated for that support - i.e. for legal aid, health, accommodation, translation services. Are some countries that are accepting larger numbers of refugees (such as neighbouring countries to a place of conflict) providing any aid for them, or perhaps relying on UN and other foreign aid agencies and foreign aid funding support, such as is provided by Australia?

    Would it be better in Australia to try and increase the intake and dilute funding per refugee, or maintain an intake number based on available or allocated funding and available support and infrastructure? I'm sure a study of how refugees are fairing around the world based on number of intake and national funding allocation would be valuable.

    I'd rather like to see the overall refugee intake increase but you know my position after 5 or 6 years of stating and restating so frankly, let's let it be eh ?

    I'm just tired of banging my head against a wall.

    Australia has made commitments yet under Labor and the Libs has wriggled and wormed , anything to avoid what we signed up for.

    Morrison apparently wants to abrogate the Refugee Convention and I applaud his honesty. He doesn't care and is happy to say so, more honesty would nice. Then we can build a big concrete wall along the Northern coastline.

    Maybe I'm tired tonight and can't be bothered replaying the whole script.
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  11. #2111
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    "sectarian Muslim"!

    What did I miss while I've been watching Bran Ferry vids on Utube?
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  12. #2112
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Must admit, I was going to post something, but couldn't be bothered once he'd started in.

    One of the issues I've encountered, Greg, is that some countries don't recognise refugees. There's a couple of hundred thousand Burmese refugees in Thailand, but Thailand won't call them refugees. A friend of mine in Thailand has a 64 year gaol sentence hanging over his head in Burma. There is no doubt he'd be arrested and tortured if he went back. He can't apply for resettlement because, with Thailand refusing to recognise them as refugees (since IIRC 2006) then the UNHCR won't register them as refugees.

    The situation now is that the army has said they are going to push them back over the border. The UN is complicit in it and has cut food supplies to the camps.
    Perhaps we could take them ? If Australia recognises their refugee status that may even be enough... issue them visas and travelling money.
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  13. #2113
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Ring Morrison and ask him, you can put a good case. You've got your mates in there now so no excuses .
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  14. #2114
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I'd rather like to see the overall refugee intake increase but you know my position after 5 or 6 years of stating and restating so frankly, let's let it be eh ?
    If anyone has actually paid attention to any of my posts on the topic, you might recall that I agree entirely with Peter's position on increasing the refugee intake and that I've also suggested a number of times that we should be looking at this as an opportunity, not as an impost on our resources and infrastructure. (However I' aware that I have been tagged here as a conservative, rightly or wrongly, so am pretty sure my comments would have been pretty much ignored.....)

    There's a lot more to considering our position on refugees and a future direction than I think anyone in this or the previous Government or any other party sniping in the wings is capable of grasping.


    Edited to add, I meant to say earlier, but considering those stats were from 2012, I'd be very interested in seeing how they compare now.
    Larks

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  15. #2115
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Have a go Ian, you've told us about these people for years, now you have your mob in you probably have an ear to talk to. Don't put it off.
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  16. #2116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    If anyone has actually paid attention to any of my posts on the topic, you might recall that I agree entirely with Peter's position on increasing the refugee intake and that I've also suggested a number of times that we should be looking at this as an opportunity, not as an impost on our resources and infrastructure. (However I' aware that I have been tagged here as a conservative, rightly or wrongly, so am pretty sure my comments would have been pretty much ignored.....)

    There's a lot more to considering our position on refugees and a future direction than I think anyone in this or the previous Government or any other party sniping in the wings is capable of grasping.


    Edited to add, I meant to say earlier, but considering those stats were from 2012, I'd be very interested in seeing how they compare now.
    I take what you say seriously Greg but I'm not up to much detailed policy discussion tonight .... in fact I'm off to bed.
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  17. #2117
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    Re the 'editing' of the thread. It's getting to the point that I'll have to start filing each days posts to keep a proper record!
    But I still wonder what is so important, or maybe so actionable that anyone would bother. And I also wonder if Scot is the source of these edits, or WB lawyers, or someone closer to the politics? I somehow doubt it's button pushing by current posters, but there could always be a 'silent' member watching on. I remember comments re the extraordinary number of views on the old one.

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  18. #2118
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    Greg re Tone's comments re the Scots. It seemed to me at the time to be a bit more than just an unwise answer to a question. I think he has an opinion on everything. David Marr has a wonderful very tongue in cheek theory involving inciting the Scots to vote yes and thereby ensuring that the Queen and her successors remain heads of state of Australia forever. (Don't ask me to explain, email him).
    Last edited by skuthorp; 08-17-2014 at 07:23 AM.

  19. #2119
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Can someone explain to me how we have no objection to authorities stopping people attempting come here by hiding in the undercarriage of an aircraft and possibility falling or freezing to death but protest loudly when authorities put in place measures to stop people attempting to come here in leaky and un-seaworthy boats and possibility drowing at sea.

  20. #2120
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I posit that in this case your opinion(s) are fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Re the 'editing' of the thread. It's getting to the point that I'll have to start filing each days posts to keep a proper record!
    But I still wonder what is so important, or maybe so actionable that anyone would bother. And I also wonder if Scot is the source of these edits, or WB lawyers, or someone closer to the politics? I somehow doubt it's button pushing by current posters, but there could always be a 'silent' member watching on. I remember comments re the extraordinary number of views on the old one.

    Don't you just love a good conspiracy theory?
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  21. #2121
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I'm looking forward to Ian's updates on his success in helping those Burmese refugees now that he has his mates in office.
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Greg re Tone's comments re the Scots. It seemed to me at the time to be a bit more than just an unwise answer to a question. I think he has an opinion on everything. David Marr has a wonderful very tongue in cheek theory involving inciting the Scots to vote yes and thereby ensuring that the Queen and her successors remain heads of state of Australia forever. (Don't ask me to explain, email him).
    David Marr probably has a better feel for what makes Tony Abbott tick than anyone else outside of his family and immediate circle of friends. Reading his book you get the feeling that he wants to dislike Abbott and sets out to prove or endorse his dislike, but in the end can't quite hide his grudging admiration for him.
    Larks

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  23. #2123
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I think that if I knew Abbott personally I might like some aspects of his personality, I like his athleticism for a start but as a Prime Minister I'm not impressed . Hmmm ... athleticism isn't really a personality trait .... oh well.
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    BTW, we had 70 mm in that patch of rain the other day, very welcome !
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I think that if I knew Abbott personally I might like some aspects of his personality, I like his athleticism for a start but as a Prime Minister I'm not impressed . Hmmm ... athleticism isn't really a personality trait .... oh well.

    I don't know Peter, one of the things that I admire about athletic people (who are not being paid or getting grant funding to be athletes) is the sense of discipline that is required to keep fit and active. Especially as we get older and everything starts to ache, injuries are more easily acquired and take longer to heal and we have so many other things that we need to be doing or would rather be doing.
    Larks

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  26. #2126
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    BTW, we had 70 mm in that patch of rain the other day, very welcome !
    90mm at home apparently......and we needed it. Even with Kate home alone our tank was well down.
    Larks

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  27. #2127
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I'm hoping for the knock on effect: Longer grass on stupidly steep hillsides that all needs me to cut it.

    WRT the refugees from either "official" corridors, or irregular maritime arrivals, my position is that we should be working with Indonesia, encouraging that country to sign up to the Refugee Convention and having much greater processing capacity in that nation. Surely it would have to be cheaper to do that than create far-flung detention camps that appear to serve no other purpose than to throw people into political and legal limbo, whether they're "economic" or genuine refugees.

    I seem to remember I very different policy during Malcolm Fraser's government: Not popular and not without its own problems, but in the end, really worthwhile.
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  28. #2128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    I don't know Peter, one of the things that I admire about athletic people (who are not being paid or getting grant funding to be athletes) is the sense of discipline that is required to keep fit and active. Especially as we get older and everything starts to ache, injuries are more easily acquired and take longer to heal and we have so many other things that we need to be doing or would rather be doing.
    but staying fit has it's own self rewarding feedback loop and for someone who has chosen a career path like Abbott the physicality it offers must be very welcome. It's hard to worry about things and ride a bike uphill, that's for down hill and flats . I'm actually surprised how few of the Canberra boys and girls follow that path.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    I'm hoping for the knock on effect: Longer grass on stupidly steep hillsides that all needs me to cut it.

    WRT the refugees from either "official" corridors, or irregular maritime arrivals, my position is that we should be working with Indonesia, encouraging that country to sign up to the Refugee Convention and having much greater processing capacity in that nation. Surely it would have to be cheaper to do that than create far-flung detention camps that appear to serve no other purpose than to throw people into political and legal limbo, whether they're "economic" or genuine refugees.

    I seem to remember I very different policy during Malcolm Fraser's government: Not popular and not without its own problems, but in the end, really worthwhile.
    The money is immaterial Duncan, it's all electioneering .
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    Julie Bishop is looking better and better compared to the turkeys calling the Govt's.ideological shots at present. Wouldn't be surprised to see her playing a much bigger domestic role in salvaging the Govt's. reputation.
    Meantime down here electioneering is ramping up between one set of aparatchiks and another. Possibly the best thing going for the Libs is that Napthine was a working vet. Rob has good things to say about him as his local member.

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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    It's hard to worry about things and ride a bike uphill
    That should be on a desk calendar Peter
    Larks

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    It's been something of a mantra for me and part of the reason I weigh 3 kg more than I did at 30.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I'm actually surprised how few of the Canberra boys and girls follow that path.
    Crikey Peter, there are lots of trail-bike riders here. And lots of trails for them to ride on as well, out in the Stromlo forest and elsewhere.

    I think you might be confusing Canberrans with politicians -- hardly any Canberran is a politician, and hardly any politician is a Canberran....

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    For those with memory problems, I'll say it one more time.

    The one individual who has done more good for the people of Burma than any other is Kevin Rudd. He was the first Foreign Minister (not just from Australia, but from the developed nations) to go in there and persuade the military rulers of the benefits of opening up the society. The side benefit from that is the oppression gets a light shone on it.... and its just like sunlight on a crappy nappy....
    Excellent but now you have a golden opportunity to help get them out of those bloody border camps and down here. Use some of your undoubted influence with your mate Morrison.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    The purpose of the far flung detention camps was part of trying to dissuade migration aspirants from dying at sea. Labor and the Greens put themselves between a rock and a hard place on that one. Not to worry, the compassionate Libs have come to the rescue and stopped the deaths.
    I'm with Palmer on this one, send a boat or fly them in. Lives saved , Convention obligations fulfilled. Red neck votes lost. oooops.
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