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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #1751
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    The war on radical Islam will only be won by not handing members of that religion golden excuses on red velvet cushions, such as the US continuing to support Israel, the whole criminal and human rights debacle in Iraq, so on and so forth. Soft power used to be valued; not much more these days. To my mind the twisted versions of Islam being preached by these nut-cases is like a fire: Starve it of oxygen and it will go out.
    Sorry Duncan, but I think that's a rather idealistic view of this issue.
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  2. #1752
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Proably so Greg, but freedoms lost or relinquished are seldom reinstated willingly by the parties that benefit.

  3. #1753
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    How do you fight an idea Greg? I'd think that ensuring the idea has no, or very little basis in any fact would be a terrific start.

    I'm sure you wouldn't doubt that the actions of Western nations over the past 100 years in the Middle East have come home to roost in the form of Islamic fundamentalism. By ignoring the realities of tribalism of that region we've only done ourselves a great disservice. TE Lawrence was brilliant at reading this social landscape and it seems we've had too few of any influence on Western foreign policy since who have been able to do as well as he did.

    The decision to invade Iraq was an almighty cluster root of Biblical proportions. I was in Doha in 2003 and talked to locals (a very multi-cultural mob) and they basically said that Iraq would fragment and be a conflict zone for decades, and this is precisely what has happened. IMHO Obama is correct for keeping his distance as much as possible and I'd think that air strikes will be very limited and very strategic in their scope. I note that they're being conducted in concert with humanitarian aid drops.

    If I were to use another analogy, Islamic fundamentalism is a bit like a virus: There's no 'cure' as such and the illness has to run its course. But giving up our freedoms, in particular habeas corpus and the right to a presumption of innocence, is a bridge too far. Way too far.
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  4. #1754
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Looks like Tony has his 'war' but some think it may outlast him. But it make any questioning of the security powers extensions very difficult for anyone in opposition.
    "The former Chief of the Australian Army, professor Peter Leahy, has warned that Australia needs to prepare itself for a century-long war, both overseas and at home, against radical Islamic militants."

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz39vuSAMyU

    I expect that our C130's will be joined by whatever the US asks for and seeing we were part of the 'coalition of the willing' that broke it we certainly own it, or rather Howard does. Question now of course is what happens to a couple of hundred thousand more refugees?

  5. #1755
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I think I've said a few times about Iraq, go for three generations or don't start. We started .
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  6. #1756
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Just a little window on the up and coming Liberal Party input in Victoria . http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mi...809-3dfhw.html Definitely born to rule .



    Young Liberals at one the country's most elite universities have posted racist, crude and misogynist comments on social media, describing women as ''sluts'', Muslims as ''degenerates'' and saying all feminists are ugly.
    Only days after two Liberal candidates were forced to quit ahead of November's state election over a series of derogatory posts on Facebook and Twitter, the party has been rocked again by offensive behaviour in its ranks.

    In a series of screenshots of Facebook messages leaked to Fairfax Media, the Melbourne University Liberal Club members attack feminist and alumni Germaine Greer, take aim at homosexuality, and repeatedly demean women.
    Club treasurer Stefan Eracleous describes Ms Greer as a ''lying f---ing c-m guzzling slut … and a union member''.
    ''She doesn't believe in God. No kids not married … what do you [e]xpect from a melb uni educated former socialist c---,'' he wrote.
    He also refers to London as ''the gay capital of the world'' and appears to hit out at Muslims, telling a friend: ''Just be careful of those mussrats. A lot of them are [a] bunch of Third World degenerate c---s.''

    The club's vice-president, Charlie Cartney, said in a Facebook message in January that a venue was ''definitely worth a visit'' because it had a Mexican restaurant and an upstairs bar with ''lots of sluts'', saying in another post: ''Get some sluts for me.''
    Other members of the group referred to former prime minister Julia Gillard as a ''twat'' and said ''Tara Moss should only be on TV if she is in a bikini''.

    The posts are another embarrassing blow for the Liberals - surfacing days after party chiefs warned MPs and candidates to act appropriately on social media - and have fuelled Labor's claims of a broader cultural problem within Liberal ranks.
    The Young Liberals and university Liberal clubs often are seen as a starting point for people interested in politics, with Melbourne University alumni including state treasurer Michael O'Brien, federal senator Scott Ryan and federal Higgins MP Kelly O'Dwyer.
    The Melbourne University Liberal Club's Facebook page also shows members campaigning for the state election with candidates and MPs, including Attorney-General Robert Clark and backbenchers Clem Newton-Brown and Neil Angus.

    Club president Michael Sabljak said he was not aware of the comments until The Sunday Age contacted him because they were not on an official Melbourne University Liberal forum, but denied the club had a homophobic, sexist or misogynistic culture.
    Mr Eracleous refused to provide any comment despite being contacted by The Sunday Age a number of times. Mr Cartney said he was not prepared to provide a response without evidence. Despite being given the relevant material, he still had not commented.

    The revelations follow the resignation of two Liberal candidates for the state election in recent days over offensive social media posts. Bendigo West candidate Jack Lyons quit last week after it was revealed he wrote dozens of offensive Facebook posts, including racist comments about people from China and Africa.

    Former Young Liberals president Aaron Lane, who had been endorsed as the party's candidate for Western Region in the upper house, resigned the previous week after he was exposed for tweeting a barrage of crude comments which included the derogatory term ''faggot''.
    Dr Lauren Rosewarne, a senior lecturer at Melbourne University's school of social and political sciences, said it was impossible for the Liberal Party to control its message in the era of social media.
    ''Social media is a very, very tricky game for people who haven't been trained in media and communications,'' Dr Rosewarne said.
    She said nothing was private on social media and if candidates or clubs aligned with the party went ''off message or rogue'', the party was responsible for reining them in.

    ''It's really damaging to the political party brand.''
    State director Damien Mantach declined to comment.




    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mi...#ixzz39wR6XOGi
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  7. #1757
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    There are still a few weird arsed bigots in the Labor Party who usually find themselves getting chucked out, but the Liberals seem to have more than their fair share and then they usually try and hush it up, until it's all too late.
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  8. #1758
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Speaking at the World Families Conference you will find Social services Minister Andrews - also their 'international ambassador", Vic. State AG Robert Clarke, MP Bernie Finn whose address will be chaired by Rosalie Crestani, a state election candidate for the Rise Up Australia Party, which is also anti-abortion, against the word "multiculturalism" and opposed to same-sex marriage. Also speaking is Larry Jacobs. Dr Jacobs has been a strong supporter of Russian laws banning gay pride demonstrations and "homosexual propaganda".
    Abetz and Bernardi are listed as sponsors. There's whole list of 'interesting' supporters to this event here.
    http://www.endeavourforum.org.au/new...melbourne.html

  9. #1759
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    "Liberal" has become newspeak of ultra conservative.
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  10. #1760
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    BTW, a mid 1700's Chinese coin has been found on Elco Island. Stand by for a territorial claim.
    But wait, in the 1940's 1000 year old African coins were found nearby. A counter claim no doubt.

  11. #1761
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Speaking at the World Families Conference you will find Social services Minister Andrews - also their 'international ambassador", Vic. State AG Robert Clarke, MP Bernie Finn whose address will be chaired by Rosalie Crestani, a state election candidate for the Rise Up Australia Party, which is also anti-abortion, against the word "multiculturalism" and opposed to same-sex marriage. Also speaking is Larry Jacobs. Dr Jacobs has been a strong supporter of Russian laws banning gay pride demonstrations and "homosexual propaganda".
    Abetz and Bernardi are listed as sponsors. There's whole list of 'interesting' supporters to this event here.
    http://www.endeavourforum.org.au/new...melbourne.html
    The whole thing is an obscenity.
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  12. #1762
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Life family... And I love this bit, freedom.
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  13. #1763
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    1730 IIRC , I wonder if this will put us under the eye of a Chinese, "we were there first claim"?
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  14. #1764
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    I see the Young Liberals have been exercising their IQs again.
    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mi...809-3dfhw.html
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  15. #1765
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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I see the Young Liberals have been exercising their IQs again.
    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mi...809-3dfhw.html
    I posted about that this morning ... just what you need in young political wannabes, racist, homophobic and misogynist. New Liberalism.
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  16. #1766
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I posted about that this morning ... just what you need in young political wannabes, racist, homophobic and misogynist. New Liberalism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Portland View Post
    It could be worse.
    They could be lefty bludgers !.
    Ya reckon . Your choice.
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  17. #1767
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Whatever Rob .
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  18. #1768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portland View Post
    The previous government welcomed these turkeys in , no affective border control , no affective checking of their true identity , and what have we got ?.
    Its alright for the lefty bludgers to point the finger at other people , but what is THEIR legacy ?.
    Are you saying the Victorian Young Liberals are new immigrants ? I didn't know .
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  19. #1769
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    University student politicians ? Working ? Really !

    You have high expectations .
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  20. #1770
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Mine too but they weren't politicians

    Student politicians spend their time arguing , organising and in the case of the boys under discussion , practicing their racism, homophobia and misogyny . Charming fellas.
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  21. #1771
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    Bye Rob, I'll bid you a pleasant good night .
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  22. #1772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portland View Post
    It could be worse.
    They could be lefty bludgers !.
    What are they somehow different to righty bludgers?
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  23. #1773
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Well Tony has offered humanitarian support and air transport, and we owe that. But do you really think that this will actually be where it stops? I don't as it happens.

  24. #1774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portland View Post
    Obviously .
    Even you should be able to figure that out.
    People who have spent a major part of their life bludging on the taxpayer shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.
    They should be forced to get off their blot , and work !.
    Pay taxes , contribute to the country they live in.
    In one period of my life I was living out of a 2 man tent , but I was working !.
    And paying my share of taxes.
    For over 30 years I payed enough tax to support 2 bludgers !.
    And who is going to put their life on the line , facing off terrorists ?.
    It won't be the free loaders , that is for sure.
    Interesting, did you know that when war was declared in 39 a lot the blokes that volunteered were on the dole.
    Also the number of people unemployed is five times greater than the total number of vacant jobs. I think you are being a tad rabid Rob.
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  25. #1775
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    Gary , your PM box is full.
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  26. #1776
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Gary , your PM box is full.
    Not now it's not:-)
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  27. #1777
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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Interesting, did you know that when war was declared in 39 a lot the blokes that volunteered were on the dole.
    Also the number of people unemployed is five times greater than the total number of vacant jobs. I think you are being a tad rabid Rob.
    Are you sure about that Gary?? When I was at school we learned that the first National unemployment scheme was introduced in Australia in 1945.
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  28. #1778
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    It was called the Suso Greg, Sustenance Allowance and just enough to keep body and soul together, 10/- a week for a single man IIRC. A wage then was around 3 pound a week, that what my maternal grandfather paid his carpenters.

    Dad joined in 1939, the first real job for 10 years, 3 meals a day and new boots.
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  29. #1779
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    In the 20s it was called the "susso" .
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  30. #1780
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    It was called the Suso Greg, Sustenance Allowance and just enough to keep body and soul together, 10/- a week for a single man IIRC. A wage then was around 3 pound a week, that what my maternal grandfather paid his carpenters.

    Dad joined in 1939, the first real job for 10 years, 3 meals a day and new boots.
    So nothing like being on the dole then.
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  31. #1781
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Very much like it, $173 is considerably less than half the average rent and about the same percentage of average weekly earnings for a carpenter today as the susso.
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  32. #1782
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Very much like it, $173 is considerably less than half the average rent and about the same percentage of average weekly earnings for a carpenter today as the susso.
    However, I suspect Rob is referring to the stereotypical "dole bludger", that group of people with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement and belief that the "system owes them" and others who are otherwise quite capable of employ but who are happier to take a prolonged tax payer funded holiday and have no qualms about sticking their mugs in front of the camera's of whatever second rate current affairs program wants to show them up for what they are.

    As opposed to those people who really are in need of social support and "sustainment", who struggle to put enough food on the table for the kids and to pay their essential services bills. Those who must make a decision about whether it will be better this week to put $10.00 of fuel in the car so that they can get to the shops and drop their kids at school and then go to Centrelink to please their need, or to put the $10.00 into a gift for their child's birthday.
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  33. #1783
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The 'stereotypical' dole bludger is largely a media product. Many who may fit the mould have other issues, not least generational unemployment, drug and mental problems, no accommodation, be abuse victims. There are very few "...with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement and belief that the "system owes them" And then of course if you're over 45 there's another problem, qualifications or no.


    BTW, I see the Defence minister has not ruled out "military involvement' in Iraq "if the US requests it" of course. Personally I think that that is inevitable. And we could be involved for a very long time.

  34. #1784
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    The 'stereotypical' dole bludger is largely a media product. Many who may fit the mould have other issues, not least generational unemployment, drug and mental problems, no accommodation, be abuse victims. There are very few "...with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement and belief that the "system owes them" And then of course if you're over 45 there's another problem, qualifications or no.
    Have a chat with Kate at the next WBS Jeff, you'll change your opinion on this quickly enough.
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  35. #1785
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Have a chat with Kate at the next WBS Jeff, you'll change your opinion on this quickly enough.
    I have no doubt of that, if Dad's unemployed , all the brothers and sisters , in fact everyone of acquaintance it takes a remarkable person to get out of the hole and largely the long term unemployed aren't remarkable.... that's why they are long term unemployed. Of course if you are laid off at over 50 and your skills became obsolete with the industry that just went OS you better be remarkable or you will be a dole bludger to quote Rob's charming phrase, for a long time.

    The youth unemployment rate is around 16% depending on the area. The best get jobs, those that don't and get into their 20s with no experience ... and I don't mean bloody work for the dole, are in trouble long term. Being on a work for the dole scheme has proven a negative factor in gaining a job long term. Don't blame the unemployed , the jobs aren't there.

    We need a real government funded full, time properly paid "Green Army", real jobs , real wages, real careers because the business community isn't providing them and it's a failure of capitalism . If these young people aren't given the opportunity to work and to learn how to work they WILL be life time unemployed.

    Blaming dole bludgers is so easy and so damn stupid !
    Last edited by PeterSibley; 08-10-2014 at 08:37 PM.
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