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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #1716
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    That's your opinion. You are welcome to it

    I spend a bit of time on the water. I might try for some more time on the Mekong.... before they stuff it totally
    That's unregulated capitalism for you.:-)
    The social contract that bestows authority — both moral and legal — on our political leaders is struck on the trust that they know what they are doing and will always act in our best interests:

  2. #1717
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    Hey, come on Ian. I confess I haven't been to Laos, but in the other three capitalism is thriving these days -- evidence of it everywhere. The main difference between us is that the people can't vote for parties, only individuals.

    There's a nice bit of family history in that blanket, by the way. Congratulations on it.

    Mike
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  3. #1718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Boat Fittings View Post
    WHAT? Erica? Good god! He's got just enough legal sense to know that Ken Henry would probably have sued him if he'd continued with his intention of calling him a liar in a Senate Estimates hearing a while back.

    No, Erica's just an idiot with adenoids.

    When you look at them, they're really a pretty shonky lot, aren't they? Erica, Brandis the Bigot, Poncy Pyne, the Great Misogynist, fat Joe who couldn't produce a satisfactory budget for a school tuckshop, that arch-bully Morrison... the list just goes on. Turnbull's probably their only good performer (and one I'd believe) but he doesn't have the ticker to either to stand up to the Mad Monk, or to abandon him and stand as an independent.

    The problem for Australia is that Labor doesn't have too many shining lights at the moment either.

    Mike
    In a nutshell , a pretty unpleasant lot. I'd take Gillard any day of the week.
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  4. #1719
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    I see that in desperation the Govt has called in the AFP and ASIO to explain their 'security' policy. Risking in the process thoroughly politicising both, except that ASIO has been a conservative organisation from the beginning.
    Not a glorious front bench is it? I wonder if there's some talent out the back?
    I see Joe has called himself, 'the most unpopular man in Australia'. Diddums………...
    But I have to agree with Mike, "The problem for Australia is that Labor doesn't have too many shining lights at the moment either." Sad state of affairs.

  5. #1720
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    Tony just slapped Abetz, well deserved and it couldn't happen to a nicer guy..


    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Abetz really has a habit of putting his foot in his mouth.

    Senator Eric Abetz denies suggesting link between abortions and breast cancer


    By political reporter Karen Barlow
    Updated 2 minutes agoFri 8 Aug 2014, 8:32am
    Video: Abetz discusses link between abortion and breast cancer (ABC News)
    Photo: Leader of the Government in the Senate Eric Abetz. (AAP: Daniel Munoz, file photo)
    Map: Australia

    Cabinet minister Eric Abetz has denied drawing a credible link between abortions and breast cancer, but he says the proponent of the theory is qualified and has a right to express her views.
    The leader of the Government in the Senate has been criticised after speaking of the link on Channel Ten program The Project last night while discussing his involvement with the World Congress of Families event being held in Melbourne this month.
    While appearing on the program, Senator Abetz was asked by panellist Mia Freedman whether he agrees with controversial American surgeon and Congress speaker, Dr Angela Lanfranchi, who promotes the theory that abortion can lead to breast cancer.
    Freedman: "What about the fact that one of the speakers at this conference promotes the factually incorrect statement that abortion leads to breast cancer. Do you believe that?"
    Abetz: "I think the studies, and I think they date back from the 1950s, assert that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer."
    Freedman: "It is conclusively and scientifically incorrect in the same way that linking immunisations and autism are incorrect. So when this scientific non-information is being put out there, how can you be comfortable being part of something that promotes this non-science?"
    Abetz: "Well I don't know what your scientific expertise is to be able to run that commentary, I must confess I don't have that ... "
    Freedman: "It's not me. It's the Australian Medical Association."
    Abetz: "Well there are other organisations that have differing views as some of these speakers are clinical professors ... "
    The country's peak medical body, the Australian Medical Association (AMA), says Dr Lanfranchi's theories are rubbish and has labelled the Senator's comments irresponsible and ideological.
    "I think he should stay out of these debates if you're quoting evidence from the 1950s, I think that's in line with the attitudes he's putting forward," AMA president Associate Professor Brian Owler said.
    Video: Cancer Council chief rejects link between breast cancer and abortions (ABC News)

    "It's not the sort of thing that he should be putting out and certainly not the role a senior Government member should be taking on what is an important health issue.
    "I think it's very dangerous when senior members of government get involved in these types of conferences and give credence to topics that have no scientific merit and which really can be dangerous in terms of the health of women."
    Senator Abetz - who is openly anti-abortion - denies he suggested a link between abortions and breast cancer, saying the body of medical opinion is clearly opposed to the idea.
    In a statement, Senator Abetz said he "studiously avoided" drawing a link between abortion and breast cancer.
    "[I] was cut off before being able to acknowledge that Dr Angela Lanfranchi's views on this topic were not the accepted medical view," he said.
    "As I pointed out, I am associating myself with the Families Conference, the broad aims of which I support. This does not mean that I endorse the views of every single speaker.
    "Notwithstanding this, Dr Lanfranchi is a breast cancer surgeon and a clinical assistant professor of surgery. She is the surgical co-director of the Sanofi-Aventis Breast Care Centre and the Steeplechase Cancer Centre in New Jersey.
    "She has spoken at hospitals and universities around the world and she has the right to free speech in Australia. I accept the AMA has a right to disagree with Dr Lanfranchi's views."

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-0...cancer/5656832
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  6. #1721
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Then there's Andrews, World Ambassador to the 'World Congress of Families', with their well publicised views and beliefs………….. and Australia's Minister for Social Services as well. If that isn't a conflict of interests, if not beliefs, what is.

  7. #1722
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    RIP Peter Sculthorpe.
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  8. #1723
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    NSW Liberals are beginning to look very much like Labor when it comes to donations from developers.
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  9. #1724
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    Yeah I noticed that, they might find that they can't raise a quorum between them both by the end. Maybe the ICAC commissioner should get the guernsey as NSW Premier?

  10. #1725
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    RIP Peter Sculthorpe.
    Yes, we have been privileged as a country to have his talents. Did you hear the story re his childhood piano teacher? He was composing at 10 and when he played a piece of his own his teacher rapped him over the knuckles saying "Stop doing that, all the good composers are dead".

  11. #1726
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Yeah I noticed that, they might find that they can't raise a quorum between them both by the end. Maybe the ICAC commissioner should get the guernsey as NSW Premier?
    Now there's an idea with merit !
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  12. #1727
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Yes, we have been privileged as a country to have his talents. Did you hear the story re his childhood piano teacher? He was composing at 10 and when he played a piece of his own his teacher rapped him over the knuckles saying "Stop doing that, all the good composers are dead".
    Shudder.
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  13. #1728
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    Took the Mac out today Peter, lovely if a little chilly and not another boat in sight.

  14. #1729
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    Well done ! I'm very much looking forward to getting JIM in the water, winters are pretty damn pleasant up here, perfect sailing weather. The southern end of Moreton Bay is like that most of the time, a beautiful sailing ground right next to a city and it's unusual to see another boat out there.
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  15. #1730
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    And on tonight's news Turnbull finally stepped in and said succinctly and accurately in thirty seconds what Bigot Brandis stuttered over for three minutes, unsuccessfully, the other night. <rolls eyes>

    And yeah, Erica got rolled by his boss too....

    Gawd help us.

    Mike
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  16. #1731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Boat Fittings View Post
    And on tonight's news Turnbull finally stepped in and said succinctly and accurately in thirty seconds what Bigot Brandis stuttered over for three minutes, unsuccessfully, the other night. <rolls eyes>


    Mike
    That's why they had Brandis trying to explain a url, um, it must be .... Brandis looking stupid instead of a competent Turnbull?

    I guess they just hate Turnbull.
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    Please forgive me in advance if this is as silly a question as it seems to me.....................but I just have to ask it anyway.......


    If we are supporting sanctions against Russia, meaning we don't want to sell them stuff and we don't want to buy any of their stuff - why the heck do we care if they don't actually want our stuff???
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  18. #1733
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    Peter -- Turnbull's the sharpest knife in the Liberal drawer. I think having turfed him out of the leadership (albeit by only a vote), and also probably feeling inferior to him anyway (which of course they are), they feel obliged to dislike him. So they 'put him in his place'. Then when they found out they actually needed him after all, they trundled him out again. And of course he immediately showed them just how much they do need him....

    Turnbull on metadata today

    A pity about the lack of ticker. If he started his own party he could do to the Greens what the Greens did to the Democrats.


    Greg -- we don't care particularly, I don't think. And I think Putin made a silly decision in imposing his sanctions on us, especially for twelve months. In twelve months many of our producers will have found new markets for their products and won't necessarily want to start selling them to Russia again.

    Mike
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  19. #1734
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    Heh You'll love the headline on the Saturday Paper today, "The Madness of King George".

    Good article from Rob Oakeshott inside too, 'Deep Pickpockets".

  20. #1735
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    I agree that the matter does need to be resolved, in a court if necessary. I do not agree however with your estimation of the Australian's editorial quality. I guess that's to be expected both ways.

  21. #1736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Please forgive me in advance if this is as silly a question as it seems to me.....................but I just have to ask it anyway.......


    If we are supporting sanctions against Russia, meaning we don't want to sell them stuff and we don't want to buy any of their stuff - why the heck do we care if they don't actually want our stuff???

    A very good question, I can't really work out why Abbott has slapped sanctions on Russia, it's not going to do ANY harm at all to Russia but kills $400m worth of Australian farm exports .... which they will just source else where. So much for the farmers because there will be no assistance to those farmers ....... but Abbott gets to stand with the big boys for half an hour.

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  22. #1737
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    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  23. #1738
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    "I think Ian is displaying anti ABC bias ."
    As I said before, that is to be expected. And as for "Did they ever do that to Labor?" Labor aren't in government and there isn't a fed. election in the offing.

  24. #1739
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    The logic of Ian's criticism is that a broadcaster can't introduce a new critical assessment tool for the public ....ever because at any one time one or other party would be in power and thus would be disadvantaged by well documented and backed up criticism of it's BS. He ignores the Fact that criticism of all parties is illustrated above and there is plentiful BS from all comers to criticise.

    Fail Ian.

    Can do better.
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  25. #1740
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    Hartcher sums up a weekus horibilis for the Government, along with a good critique of its competency to govern:

    Tony Abbott told us in March that “the point of being prime minister is that you've got to be a national leader, not just a tribal chief.” It hadn’t happened on election day. But has he made the transformation this week?Several commentators have told us so. And every patriotic Australian, regardless of how we happen to vote, must want the nation’s leader to transcend politics and govern for the success of the country as a whole. Is that what happened this week?


    Abbott has worked exceptionally hard in responding to the attack on MH17, as he should. The government effort so far has been exemplary. As part of it, Abbott declared a national day of mourning for the victims this week.
    It wasn’t all about him; he gave a fine eulogy at the all-faith service in Melbourne’s St Patrick’s Cathedral but it was a national, civic and bipartisan event, not a political one.
    And he abandoned an ideological indulgence, his promised change to the Racial Discrimination Act. The reason? “I don’t want to do anything that puts our national unity at risk at this time,” he said at his Tuesday press conference. This involved some political cost.


    He instead announced a suite of policies to counter terrorism, a fight that demands national cohesion: “The highest priority of government is the safety of our community and I want to ensure the Australian people that we will leave no stone unturned to ensure that our community is as safe as it can be.”
    He promised to provide confidential intelligence briefings to the opposition, keeping it bipartisan. This does indeed look like a picture of a national leader, not a tribal chief. Unfortunately, it’s not the full picture.
    Three telltale signs suggest that we still have a tribal chief running the country. While Abbott’s conduct over MH17 is impeccable, the counterterrorism exercise this week displayed underlying tribalism that jeopardises the project.


    First was the internal animosity, the personal distrust at the heart of the government. The National Security Committee of the cabinet agreed to the counterterrorism measures on Monday. They were to be presented to a meeting of the full cabinet on Tuesday.


    But cabinet ministers were surprised to wake up on Tuesday morning and find that the prime minister’s office had leaked to The Daily Telegraph one of the most controversial elements - the decision to force telecommunications companies to keep records of customers’ phone and internet activities for two years so they could be used to seek out terrorist threats.
    This is the so-called metadata, the records of the “who, where, when and how” of communications without including the “what”. It’s what Abbott has called “the front of the envelope” information, as distinct from the content of the letter.


    A number of ministers were concerned that the leak was premature. The NSC decision was only an “in-principle” one. There was no detail. This would soon become glaringly obvious to the entire country as the Prime Minister and his Attorney-General, George Brandis, took to the airwaves to explain their plans only to contradict each other.


    But no minister was more surprised, or more dismayed, than Malcolm Turnbull. The Communications Minister is not a member of the NSC; no communications minister ever has been. But the NSC routinely brings into its deliberations ministers whose portfolios might be affected by matters on the agenda. Immigration Minister Scott Morrison, for instance, is a frequent participant.
    Turnbull spoke out in the cabinet meeting to point out the lack of detail for the telecommunications industry and the public, the uncertainty that would be created, and the room for confusion. He was the only cabinet minister to register any unhappiness. But, as one of his cabinet colleagues remarked, “It’s not just one person, it’s Malcolm.”


    “Malcolm’s agenda,” said another cabinet minister, “is to get himself onto the NSC. That’s what it was really about.” Turnbull would, no doubt, welcome the invitation. He is not a man who holds his own opinions in low esteem.
    He might even have something useful to offer. It’s an era where “cyber warfare is the current battlefield, not in some future time but right now, today” in the words of US Marine Corps General Richard Simcock when he spoke to reporters in Canberra in June.


    But to Turnbull it appeared to be a calculated effort by the Prime Minister’s office to humiliate him. A decision in his portfolio had been made, and announced by leak, without any hint to the minister. That made it a fait accompli.
    It was not the first time that Turnbull felt himself to be the victim of paranoid pathology in the Prime Minister’s office. The government announced last month that it had made appointments to the ABC and SBS nominations committee, the four-member body that recommends directors for the public broadcasters.


    The announcement was news to Turnbull, the minister who oversees both organisations. There were two tribal appointments to the panel, the conservative commentator Janet Albrechtsen and former Liberal deputy leader Neil Brown. The process was too tribal to include Turnbull.


    Technically, Turnbull did not need to be consulted on either matter. But the decision to exclude the most popular member of the government, and one of its most articulate performers, was petty politics. It was also counterproductive.


    The idea of requiring the telecoms firms to keep the data is not revolutionary. The police and intelligence agencies have been routinely searching mobile phone and computer metadata since the technologies first came into use. This is status quo.


    The independent senator for South Australia, Nick Xenophon, raised privacy concerns about this in May last year. “Is it the case under the Australian legislation,” Xenophon asked the Federal Police commissioner Tony Negus in a Senate committee hearing, “that, in order to obtain the phone records and the phone data and also presumably the Facebook and Google data of a person, you do not actually need to get a warrant?”
    Negus replied: “Non-content data - that is correct. We do not need a warrant.” The police and intelligence agencies need internal authorisation from senior managers to get access to the data, and they check about 300,000 records a year, but no warrant.


    So what’s new? Some phone companies no longer keep all the records the agencies need. They’re starting to switch their billing systems to charge customers for blocks of time instead of numbers of calls. The government simply wants them to continue with the old practice. “We’re shoring up the status quo,” as one senior official put it. The telecoms firms are unhappy because it will cost them money, not because it involves any new privacy breach.


    If this had been clearly grasped and properly explained from the outset, the government would not have descended into the debacle of the week. Its counterterrorism announcement created confusion and fear and controversy where none need have existed.


    The leaked decision precluded any work on the detail; the exclusion of Turnbull shut out the government’s most expert communications spokesman. It was boneheaded management based on the pettiest of tribal division.
    The second telltale sign was Abbott’s decision to name the Muslim community in his appeal for national unity. “When it comes to counterterrorism everyone needs to be part of ‘Team Australia’” said Abbott. Yet he singled out the Muslim community. We are “determined to engage in ever closer consultation with communities including the Australian Muslim community.”


    Muslim Australians were, understandably, angry. It was tantamount to naming them as a terrorist threat. Some are. But that’s why the wider Muslim community is a vital resource for managing them. If Abbott wants their co-operation, why gratuitously antagonise them? This, again, is not the act of a national leader.


    Cont...


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  26. #1741
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    "I think Ian is displaying anti ABC bias ."
    As I said before, that is to be expected. And as for "Did they ever do that to Labor?" Labor aren't in government and there isn't a fed. election in the offing.

    That isn't absolutely written in stone , a DD may yet end up being Abbott's last card.
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    ...
    And his magnanimous act in abandoning his planned revision to the Racial Discrimination Act? It was a dead letter in any case. It was adamantly opposed by every ethnic group in the land. It divided the Liberal party room and the Abbott cabinet. It was opposed by an astonishing 88 per cent of the public. It had no chance of getting through the Senate.

    Well-connected ethnic communities had been authoritatively assured for over two months now that the change to 18C would be dumped. It was just a matter of finding the opportunity that involved the least loss of face, they were told.


    The third telltale sign was the priority the government put on winning bipartisan support for the counterterrorism measures. While it said it was happy to extend classified briefings to the opposition, Labor soon got the impression that it was a low priority.


    Abbott made the announcement on Tuesday. The government arranged for intelligence chiefs to give the media a background briefing on Tuesday afternoon. They gave the media a second briefing on Wednesday. On Friday the government sent senior officials of ASIO and the federal police into a press conference to try to clarify the confusions about retaining metadata. Only on Friday afternoon was Labor afforded a briefing. A government serious about winning bipartisan support, and serious about getting its measures through Parliament, would have brought Labor into the room at the very outset. Certainly before leaking it to a newspaper.
    But Labor can at least take some consolation that its exclusion was bipartisan. These three telltales show us that Abbott has not yet got, in his own definition, “the point of being prime minister.”


    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/tony-a...#ixzz39rYWsujR
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    That isn't absolutely written in stone , a DD may yet end up being Abbott's last card.
    I wouldn't hold my breath, I don't reckon Clive would risk it. But then I suspect that only one of 'his' senators are welded on.

    The deliberate and public snub to Turnbull, and the preclusion by leak of any serious modification of the legislation might appeal to the strong revenge slant to this government, but i the long run will get up and bite them. Similarly with the pursuit of Gillard, it's got more to do with the Libs rage at their time in opposition than it has to any matter of justice, though I allow that there may actually have been some funny business. .

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    I don't actually know what Palmer wants beyond revenge on the Lib Nats for his Qld humiliation so as far as I can see he is VERY loose cannon and will do as much damage as he can. I don't think he expects his "party " to last long but as long as it causes the Nats pain, he's happy.

    If he wants to hang around he can probably collect quite a following of anti government , a curse on both your parties conservative old Labor types with a few hunters and fishers thrown it. Then there's all those confused Paulines needing a messiah, it's a rich fishing ground .
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    ...it's got more to do with the Libs rage at their time in opposition than it has to any matter of justice....
    Yes, ever since Pig-Iron Bob, the Libs have believed in their 'divine right to rule', haven't they? I have no idea where they got it from, but it's certainly part of their collective ethos.

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    The right school old chap, what else !
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    Hh'mm... I think it's more than that, Peter. It's a sort of religion with them -- unquestioning, doctrinal... Some bigotry. Superciliousness. And always so dogmatic about it all, too.

    In fact, all the things that a true liberal is not.

    If they wanted to be brutally honest about it (which of course they wouldn't -- they don't want to be even a little bit honest about anything much), maybe they should change their name to the 'Divine Right Party'?

    BTW I went to one of those 'right' schools myself, but I was never a member of the Libs (or any other political party for that matter) and I've been a swinging voter since my teens. But then, I don't claim to be religious either....

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    I went to a C of E grammar and the underlying current and the body of lectures to the assembled was , prepare to rule . Adelaide was old school and old money .... very much Downer and such. The attitude remains.
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The war on radical Islam will only be won by not handing members of that religion golden excuses on red velvet cushions, such as the US continuing to support Israel, the whole criminal and human rights debacle in Iraq, so on and so forth. Soft power used to be valued; not much more these days. To my mind the twisted versions of Islam being preached by these nut-cases is like a fire: Starve it of oxygen and it will go out. The "war" will cost less in both lives lost and cash and more likely be over sooner. I refer to the way such ferment ended in the Algerian desert, with various factions killing each other over who had the most "pure" version of Islam. Life of Brian got it all those years ago.

    “They should advance a narrative that explains that radical Islamism and the terrorism it breeds at home and abroad will remain a significant threat for the long term, it will require considerable effort, the expenditure of blood and treasure and it will, of necessity, restrict our rights and liberties,” he said.
    In that case the terrorists have won already. Benjamin Franklin summed it up nicely with, ”He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.”
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
    Mirror 30141
    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  35. #1750
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,976

    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    bin Laden won handsomely.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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