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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #1646
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Rodney Cavalier wrote a book on this abt 4 years back. Latham is just reprising what anyone with half an idea of politics ready knows.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Which brings us to Latham and his pretty clear story about Party aperatchiks from both sides, the ones who talk to each other an seldom anyone else. He said political party membership runs at .04% of the population, the real elites but strangely enough no one wants to join and spend 10 years brown nosing the functionary who runs the branch .... so no one does. The political bubble.
    Last edited by purri; 08-03-2014 at 03:23 AM.
    Xanthorrea

  2. #1647
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Can you really take Mark Latham seriously Peter??
    Yes, since he's outside the tent his critiques of both parties are pretty accurate. Actually this morning's talk pretty closely reflected our Jeff's remarks on both sides and their distance from reality.

    Here's the audio link Greg, tell me what you think. http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...egment/5640148
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  3. #1648
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Seems apposite --

    Mike
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  4. #1649
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Latham as commentator has a better grasp on the reality of the current political 'jobs for the boys' scenario than most, and he's not afraid to say it like it is either, unlike many. Greg I have always wondered what Labour would have been like as a govt under Latham, but I expect, like many ex pollies, he would only prepared to be so brutally frank after he's out of the game. In govt he would probably have toed the factional line like the rest of them.

  5. #1650
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Latham as commentator has a better grasp on the reality of the current political 'jobs for the boys' scenario than most, and he's not afraid to say it like it is either, unlike many. Greg I have always wondered what Labour would have been like as a govt under Latham, but I expect, like many ex pollies, he would only prepared to be so brutally frank after he's out of the game. In govt he would probably have toed the factional line like the rest of them.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  6. #1651
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    Exactly my point. Incompetence at vast cost to the taxpayer and environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    There are lots of bush regen operations around here and they pay good wages for good work, now they will have to compete against a lot of semi trained and going on precedent, largely disinterested Green Army "volunteers" competing with them being paid $300 to $500 per week. Wonderful. another few small business votes down the tube.


    Not too many comments on the new proposed gas pricing regime ? Our 40 kg bottles are $120 now , the international market price will put them to $360 per bottle . $1000 per year for most houses around here that use gas for cooking and hot water. It could be a lot more down south with gas heating.
    Xanthorrea

  7. #1652
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    Quote Originally Posted by purri View Post
    Exactly my point. Incompetence at vast cost to the taxpayer and environment.
    Certainly very little interest in the energy costs of small business or households.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  8. #1653
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    A little comment on Hunt and Adani Coal , best mates .

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  9. #1654
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Welfare recipients aren't bludgers, and they deserve respect from Joe Hockey




    • inShar


    Anthony Albanese



    The search for a scapegoat, according to former US President Dwight D. Eisenhower, is the easiest of all hunting expeditions.
    As we learn more about the political narrative of the Abbott government, I worry that Tony Abbott’s zeal to appear tough is causing him to hunt those with the least power to defend themselves – pensioners and the unemployed.

    I’m losing count of this government’s attacks on people in receipt of a government benefit. Disability pensioners are being targeted regularly, with newspaper reports creating anxiety that they will be cast aside. At the same time the government is cutting health funding, something of critical interest to people with disabilities or chronic illness.
    Unemployed people are told they have to fill out 40 job applications a month or lose the dole. At the same time the government has reduced spending on training. Programmes like Youth Connections, that enabled disadvantaged young people to move through education to work, have been cut. Cuts to apprenticeship support are short-sighted and cost not just individuals; but the economy as a whole. A skilled workforce is a productive workforce.
    I’m sick of hearing Joe Hockey beat his chest and declare the end of “the age of entitlement’’. It’s a term that comes with the unspoken suggestion that recipients of government assistance are somehow conniving to receive something to which they are not entitled.
    The introduction of this type of scapegoat terminology – designed to malign all welfare recipients – has encouraged tabloid newspapers and radio shock jocks to resort to terms like “bludgers’’ and “rorters’’.

    The truth is that most welfare recipients are not bludgers but honest people doing their best in difficult circumstances. It’s time for a more serious debate on welfare – one that goes beyond dog whistling and demonisation of the poor.
    As a society, we owe it to ourselves to help people work if they can. There is dignity in work, as well as empowerment. Higher workforce participation reduces the call on the public purse and also generates greater economic growth – a benefit to the entire nation.
    However, we need to abandon the ugly rhetoric and start from the proposition that there are people who aren’t in the workforce through no fault of their own. If we put aside politics for just a moment, most people would accept that our shared values of decency demand that people down on their luck receive support rather than vilification.
    Maybe their marriage broke down and they are struggling to raise children alone. Maybe they are sick and genuinely unable to work. Maybe they have a mental illness. Maybe they are homeless. Perhaps they are over 50 years of age and have been made redundant and are unable to find anyone who will give them a shot at a second career.
    Whatever their circumstances, people receiving welfare deserve neither disrespect, nor this government’s transparent attempts to punish them for their misfortune, with ever more tests to maintain their payments.

    Hundreds of people in my electorate in Sydney’s inner west are on disability pensions because they are literally unable to work. Many sole parents would love to work but their circumstances and their responsibility to raise their children make work difficult. Such people endure a daily struggle to overcome their circumstances and raise their children to become educated so they can escape the poverty trap.
    That’s something to be applauded. Instead, the current rhetoric of the government tries to make people feel as though they’re lazy or burdensome. That’s just not fair. It is completely disrespectful. The approach of the current government appears to be punitive, rather than helpful. The very last thing elected representatives should do is encourage working Australians to treat welfare recipients with suspicion or hatred.
    The former Labor government faced the same issues about the structure of the workforce as those being grappled with now by Abbott. Sometimes Labor got it wrong – such as with the extension of the Howard government’s changes moving more single parents onto the Newstart program.
    Entrenched unemployment and welfare dependence are very difficult to address in a policy sense. Labor’s starting point was and remains that people who are disadvantaged need help, not character analysis from politicians looking for headlines.
    The role of government in this area is to provide opportunity through better education and training options, and ensure jobs are available through economic growth. Yet the Abbott government seems unable to discuss these issues without treating such people as cannon fodder in its rhetorical war against any and all government spending.
    Earlier in the year Hockey, anxious to demonstrate his desire to end the age of entitlement, complained that some single mothers could access up to $55,000 a year in benefits. As it turned out, the Department of Human Services refused to endorse the figure.
    In any event, one of the benefits the treasurer used to reach this figure was the jobs education and training child care fee assistance, worth up to $15,120 and designed to help single parents access child care while they attend university to make themselves employable.

    Hockey wants to have it both ways. He wants to attack single mums for being unemployed and then attack them again if they dare to access government benefits designed to make them employable. His unspoken message to these parents is that they should feel bad about trying to improve their circumstances.
    The treasurer seems to be more interested in promoting resentment of single mothers than in actually helping them into the workforce. Elected representatives need to understand that whenever they attack pension recipients in the hope that this will jolt them into the workforce, their comments have the reverse effect.
    Being told indirectly that you are a lazy piece of scum malingering on the public purse does little to improve a person’s confidence, so important to attaining employment. No-one deserves to feel attacked in this way. As another former US President, Bill Clinton once said: “‘We’re all in this together’ is a better philosophy than ‘you’re on your own’.”
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  10. #1655
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    An oldie from the Oz....

    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  11. #1656
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Looks like the one taken by a mate of mine in Alice, Scoop - AKA Steve Strike. Made him somewhat famous in photographic circles and had quite a positive impact on his business.
    Larks

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  12. #1657
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    An oldie from the Oz....

    What is this, Ian?

  13. #1658
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    That's Ayers Rock/Uluru in the rain, Glen. It's renowned for changing colour throughout the day and in different weather, Scoop's pic' of it being purple was a first and he was accused of using filters, post production tampering and so on, but it was all natural and as it appeared on the day.
    Last edited by Larks; 08-04-2014 at 01:04 AM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  14. #1659
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Thanks, Greg!

  15. #1660
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I like the way Uluru glows at night. (and other places that way)

    Greg, do you know Uncle Bob Randall or any of the Briscoes?
    Xanthorrea

  16. #1661
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I've never been to Uluru, the closest I've been in Andomooka and Arkoona station north of Port Augusta .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  17. #1662
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    Greg suggested I read a book called "The People Smuggler", it very good, the story of an Iraqi refugee , the horror that befalls his family and how he eventually finds himself as a refugee then that most reviled of all people , a people smuggler.

    Here's a review.http://www.penguin.com.au/products/9.../reading-notes

    Book Summary
    Ali Al Jenabi was just two years old when Saddam Hussein first became part of the Iraqi government. Like Hitler in his early days, Saddam initially improved life for many people, with free hospitals and education, better infrastructure. But by the time he became president, when Ali was nine, he was already a ruthless murderer.

    Ali's father, Hassan Pilot, was never a political man, but he had a strong sense of right and wrong and was unafraid of speaking his mind. It did not take long before he was imprisoned, tortured and mentally broken, after which he was forced into the army to kill fellow Muslims when Iraq invaded Iran.

    As a boy, Ali loved his father beyond measure, and was in many ways a chip off the paternal block. At the age of nineteen, Ali too found himself in one of Saddam's prisons, the notorious Abu Ghraib, along with his younger brother Ahmad. The torture they endured there is beyond imagining, and when Ali got out of jail he joined the resistance, determined to see Saddam deposed. But then a friend was caught by the secret police and executed, and Ali knew he was also in their sights.

    With his father by now incapable of looking after his family, it was left to Ali, as the oldest son, to find a way to get his mother and remaining siblings out of the country. As long as they were in Iraq all their lives were in danger. So began several years of seeking asylum in surrounding countries. Ali made illegal border crossings, past corrupt officials and over perilous mountains, in freezing, treacherous conditions. The family struggled by in poor lodgings with meagre supplies, or in refugee camps, with the youngest children unable to go to school. The future was uncertain and they agonised over two more of Ali's brothers they'd had to leave behind in an Iraqi prison.

    With all options in the Middle East and Europe exhausted, and their application to the United Nations for refugee status summarily rejected, Ali fell in with a countryman who was flying to Indonesia with a view to going to Australia by boat. Once in Australia, Ali planned, he would bring the rest of his family out. But the people organising the boats were concerned only with profit, and Ali found himself fleeced of his money and no closer to leaving. When a people smuggler offered to take Ali's family for free, one member per boat at a time, if Ali came to work for him, Ali agreed. But after observing the dangerous manner in which refugees were loaded onto unseaworthy boats, and determined that his family would not be put at such risk, he decided to organise his own. He had no intention of becoming a smuggler, he was seeking sanctuary for himself and his family, but there were so many desperate people lining up to get on a boat that was safe.

    One boat led to another. Life, too, got in the way, and Ali had his own family to think about – an Indonesian wife and a baby daughter. By now the Australian Federal Police were on his trail, and eventually they succeeded in extraditing him to Darwin to face criminal charges. Thus began what was in many ways Ali's greatest ordeal of all. He had to battle to convince the courts that he was not the evil monster the Australian government insisted he was; he had to battle the anguish of being separated from his wife and daughter, the latter too young to understand her father's absence; he had to battle the absurdity of completing his prison sentence only to be immediately incarcerated in Sydney's Villawood detention centre. And then he had to do battle with the Immigration Department . . .

    Today Ali lives with his mother and siblings, all of whom have been granted Australian citizenship as refugees, while he remains under constant threat of being deported to Iraq, where his life would still be in danger. He is unable to visit his wife and daughter. The People Smuggler tells Ali's story in gripping, powerful fashion. A cross between The Kite Runner and The Tall Man, it is a vivid, evocative account that shines light on a dark subject.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  18. #1663
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The Australian and Rupert play a devious game. They'll support anything and everything that seems to suit their long game, and repudiate it at the drop of a hat if it suits. Bipartisan support for a constitutional amendment will be very welcome, but I'll not hold my breath. Frankly I think it's just a stop gap, a treaty would be more appropriate.
    Neumann may not be the sharpest tool in a box that is mostly blunt anyhow I'll allow.

  19. #1664
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I'd say follow the money, getting on the good side of Land Councils has suddenly become a corporate enterprise as per Palmer in the NT. Not too many decades ago the corporate approach was to send in plod with batons to "resettle" the owners ... see New Mapoon in NQ. A very Serbian approach.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  20. #1665
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Yup, he reckons they could make a motza. Of course they'd be in control of the facility, but it can't leak much more than the mine in Kakadu now can it? Of course there's the transport problem…… Backloading on that fancy Queensland coal port maybe?

    I note that the Aus got a scoop from that 'secret' committee making future policy decisons on data retention by ASIO. If the committee or ASIO is that leaky what confidence should we have that the data would be? Not much I'd say.

  21. #1666
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Abbott has dropped his changed to 18C so racial bigotry will not be legal and encouraged as per Brandis . Well done Abbott , a moment of sanity.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  22. #1667
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Put it on waibella lands (if only on leasehold Western Division NSW for example) and see how Barnanaby "squeels laike a peeg".
    Last edited by purri; 08-06-2014 at 01:54 AM.
    Xanthorrea

  23. #1668
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Put it in Sydney, it's safe so why not.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  24. #1669
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    "Abbott has dropped his changed to 18C so racial bigotry will not be legal "
    Moment of reality is more like it. He's got enough troubles as it is. Then there's this,
    "CLIVE Palmer has declared Tony Abbott’s signature Paid Parental Leave Scheme is “dead in the water” and his party won’t let it become a reality."
    But Joe is still bleating plaintively on morning radio that no one will let him play with his budget toy. Of course having stuffed the process properly what good ideas were in are likely to go out with the bathwater like the rest.

  25. #1670
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    Poor Joe, he's really stuffed this up.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  26. #1671
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    So, who in the coalition has come up looking good? Malcolm……….. no chance. JB………….. looking pretty good but wrong gender for the RW. But she'd have cabinet quaking in their boots on a daily basis I reckon. Might be OK though.

  27. #1672
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I don't think you and I are well placed to judge Jeff, perhaps you should ask Ian, he seems intimately involved.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Irony becomes you………………….

  29. #1674
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Eh? Carr probably sold more books because of it, what did Byron say…… "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about". From what Brown said I'd say that unlike Carr, he's not courted the predictable reactions, politics being only 10% of the book.

  30. #1675
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Brown has lead a remarkable life, quite an unusual if highly effective politician. I find myself in agreement with him more often than not. Surprise, surprise.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  31. #1676
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    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  32. #1677
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The latest fortnightly Newspoll records a post-MH17 improvement in Tony Abbott’s personal ratings, but no dividend on voting intention.

    Stephen Murray tweets that the fortnightly Newspoll in tomorrow’s Australian shows no change on two-party preferred, with Labor maintaining its lead of 54-46, and next to no change on the primary vote, with the Coalition steady on 36%, Labor down one to 36%, the Greens up one to 12% and others steady on 16%. However, Tony Abbott is up five on approval to 36% and down seven on disapproval to 53%, and has drawn level on preferred prime minister at 38-38 after Bill Shorten led 41-36 a fortnight ago. Bill Shorten’s personal ratings are also improved, his approval up four to 38% and disapproval down two to 41%.

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludg...46-to-labor-4/
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  33. #1678
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    Meh, means nothing because there's no election in the wind. Just pollsters keeping themselves employed.
    "The latest fortnightly Newspoll" says it all.

  34. #1679
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    (Just so that I can have my little "I told you so" moment) Does anyone remember the debates in OzPol Mk1 re Labour's Broadband rollout??? I remember clearly expressing my concern that there appeared to be no business case and no cost benefit analysis or VFM studies done to justify the decision to go ahead with it:

    In a devastating critique into the formation of Australia’s biggest infrastructure projects, former Productivity Commission head Bill Scales has found the NBN Co set up to develop the high-speed internet network was given a job that only a “well-functioning, large and established” telecommunications company could do under the tight time*tables for the rollout. For a start-up, it was an “impossible assignment”.
    Mr Scales said he was told that some of those involved in the first 12 months of the NBN Co were “making it up as they went”, while others related a “salutary anecdote” that, in the early days of NBN Co, ‘‘all we had (to guide us) was the press release and a bunch of business cards”.
    In a move that will reignite political debate over the NBN, the Coalition late yesterday tabled the 186-page audit into the process that led to the formation of Labor’s NBN. It is significant as it contains sweeping recommendations on what future actions Canberra should take when considering major projects such as the network. It also comes ahead of an independent cost-benefit analysis into broadband and the regulatory *arrangements for the NBN.
    The audit examined the original “Mark I” NBN policy — based on 2007 election promises by then opposition leader Kevin Rudd of $4.7bn public funding towards building a fibre-to-the-node network — and the vastly more ambitious $43bn Mark II policy that replaced it.
    Both were developed under the Rudd Labor government. In April 2009, after the world’s economy was rocked by the financial crisis, the original proposal was replaced with a $43bn plan for the government to go it alone and build a fibre-to-the-premise network.“By contrast, with NBN Mark I, the public policy process for developing NBN Mark II was rushed, chaotic and inadequate,” it says.
    The plan got just 11 weeks’ consideration and “there is no evidence that a full range of options was seriously considered”.
    “There was no business case or any cost-benefit analysis, or independent studies of the policy undertaken, with no clear operating instructions provided to this completely new government business enterprise, within a legislative and regulatory framework still undefined, and without any consultation with the wider community,” the report says.

    (The rest here
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-1227013441446
    Last edited by Larks; 08-05-2014 at 10:07 PM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  35. #1680
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Rudd………… are you surprised? I'm not. Rudd reminded me of Joh actually, "Don't you worry about that".
    Nonetheless I still think that the NBN is more than just a good idea, but fibre to 'every household' was always just an election stretch. We are having a similar 'election stretch' regarding a very expensive freight transport tunnel that can't take hazardous materials. Local politics.

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