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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #15751
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.



    Future generations, priced out of education, housing and health and forced into low-paying jobs, where wages fall ever further behind the cost of living, are paying for Fizza Turnbull’s indecision, his blind determination to hang on to the Prime Minister’s office keys and his craven capitulation to the right-wing inside his own party.

    https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/ia-in-canberra-budget-2017-preview,10283

    So , how exactly does a young person plan for their future ?
    Take on debt for education , and hope to get lucky finding an underpaid job ?
    Forget about ever owning a house ?
    Pack their bags and education debt and head overseas ?

    Not exactly many options open to them is there ?
    Last edited by Wet Feet; 05-10-2017 at 03:32 PM.

  2. #15752
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    The education funding sucks, brought to you by politicians who got free university education.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  3. #15753
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    Can we trust the budget figures on wages growth? My eyebrow is raised

    The 2017 budget has been very quickly labelled a Labor-lite budget. Mostly that has been because instead of cutting their way to surplus the budget raises tax revenue. But the most Labor-like aspect of the budget might be its hope for a wages breakout – because without a big jump in wages growth, the longed for budget surplus will remain unachieved.

    And bear in mind, in early 2014, which was the last time wages were growing by just 2.5%, the then shadow employment minister Senator Abetz, was warning of a “wages explosion.”

    The budget papers would have us believe that a Liberal government would be now only too happy to see wages growth increasing at a time of flat employment growth?

    I would like to see that.

    It would also require a very big shift in the current relationship between unemployment and wages growth.

    As I have previously noted, because of underemployment, wages are currently growing by much less than you would expect given the current unemployment rate. Given our current unemployment rate you would expect wages to be growing by around 3.4% rather than the current 1.9%.

    Well never fear, despite the budget predicting unemployment will barely move over the next four years, wages will zoom back to growth levels actually above the historical average.

    So can we trust the budget figures?

    Well let’s just say no one should hold their breath waiting for that estimate of a budget balance four years away coming true.
    Since Treasury began four-year estimates in 2001-02 they have been wrong on the initial estimate by an average 2.2% of GDP.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-raised#img-1

  4. #15754
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    "So , how exactly does a young person plan for their future ?
    Take on debt for education , and hope to get lucky finding an underpaid job ?
    Forget about ever owning a house ?
    Pack their bags and education debt and head overseas ?

    Not exactly many options open to them is there ?"

    Anyone else remember Lee Kwan Yew's quote about 'the poor white trash of Asia'?

    And regarding the free uni. education these nasties got under labour, they don't want their own children to have competition from those of the rest of us.

  5. #15755
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    You guys all need some anti depressant medication. Life is bloody wonderful and our kids have so many options it's unbelievable!

  6. #15756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    You guys all need some anti depressant medication. Life is bloody wonderful and our kids have so many options it's unbelievable!
    The privileged ones Phil. The ones that can count on support.

  7. #15757
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    Yep, they live in Australia but housing wise it sucks .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #15758
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    I'm not depressed Phil. I'm one of the lucky generation. Born in Australia. Missed all the wars, bought houses when they were cheap, changed jobs at the drop of a hat, got headhunted a few times and kept up with the technology along the way. Travelled when it was easy. Didn't smoke or booze like a lot of my generation, inherited good genes and healthy amount of cynicism kept me from becoming politically rusted on. And didn't have kids so I've not got skin in the mess being made of the future.
    Oh yes, and avoided the obsession with football.

    I regard that as very lucky. Especially the last point
    Last edited by skuthorp; 05-10-2017 at 07:05 PM.

  9. #15759
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    When I think of the life I've led, debt and mortgage free, plentiful work when I was young and reasonable, even cheap real estate I get annoyed. A parliament full of housing speculators .... not investors, call a spade a spade, with no intention of doing themselves out of profits and devil take the generation coming on.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  10. #15760
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    Oh for the good old days, when a kid from the western suburbs could walk into a factory at 14, and if he managed to survive without getting maimed, walk out at 65 and get the pension. Sure he'd struggle all his life to do much more than put food on the table, but those were the days eh? Sure it's tough now if you want to buy a family home in the leafy suburbs as your first house. But actually it always was. There are affordable houses. There are jobs. There are overseas holidays and new cars and all sorts of nice things. I don't understand your daily negativity, it must be awful living inside your heads.

  11. #15761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    You guys all need some anti depressant medication. Life is bloody wonderful and our kids have so many options it's unbelievable!
    Bingo.

  12. #15762
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    I don't think either of you understand me at all.

    "Oh for the good old days, when a kid from the western suburbs could walk into a factory at 14, and if he managed to survive without getting maimed, walk out at 65 and get the pension. Sure he'd struggle all his life to do much more than put food on the table, but those were the days eh?"

    I knew some of those 'kids', they were survivors from the depression and returned men from both wars and my generations fathers and mothers.
    Round Port and Sth Melbourne they mostly paid rent to the churches for 1890's spec housing with cold water taps and in Port earth closet toilets.
    My generation has managed to do better.

  13. #15763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Oh for the good old days, when a kid from the western suburbs could walk into a factory at 14, and if he managed to survive without getting maimed, walk out at 65 and get the pension. Sure he'd struggle all his life to do much more than put food on the table, but those were the days eh? Sure it's tough now if you want to buy a family home in the leafy suburbs as your first house. But actually it always was. There are affordable houses. There are jobs. There are overseas holidays and new cars and all sorts of nice things. I don't understand your daily negativity, it must be awful living inside your heads.
    Oh for the good old days when if you saved a good part of an ordinary wage you could buy a house without a lifelong mortgage. A good if cheap house could be bought for one year's wage for a primary teacher , a house in a leafy suburb in Bris, Kenmore could be had for 3 years of her wage.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  14. #15764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wet Feet View Post
    Unemployment and under employment is growing , and will continue to .

    I`m sure most of us know someone that is unemployed. I do not for one moment believe that the vast majority of Newstart recipients are happy to lead a " bludger`s " life on the dole. It`s a complete misrepresentation and misconception. The fortnightly payments are so meager , that it would be hell to have to live like that for any extended period of time. I don`t know how some of these people can keep it together how they do . The poverty and growing lack of self esteem would be crushing.

    How smart is it to attack and vilify these people .Life is tough for them.
    Perhaps we should all spend a little more of our time lending a more compassionate ear to them instead.

    Just my humble opinion.
    They are targeted because they have no lobbying power.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  15. #15765
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    I listened to a very good interview with Geoff Mosley (Australian Conservation Foundation) today on the ABC. The underhanded way Lake Pedder was flooded was an eyeopener.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  16. #15766
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Oh for the good old days when if you saved a good part of an ordinary wage you could buy a house without a lifelong mortgage. A good if cheap house could be bought for one year's wage for a primary teacher , a house in a leafy suburb in Bris, Kenmore could be had for 3 years of her wage.

    Nobody of my generation " walked into a factory at 14 " Phil.

    In fact , it was already illegal to do so. And they did not have to.

  17. #15767
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    On Tuesday night I sat on my couch and waited. And waited.

    I was waiting to tick climate change off my budget bingo but I never got the chance. That’s because Scott Morrison delivered his budget speech without a single mention of climate change, the biggest long-term economic threat we face.

    But, hidden deep within the budget papers was the revelation that the Climate Change Authority had been stripped of almost two-thirds of its funding and confirmation that it will be wound up.

    The Climate Change Authority is charged with providing independent advice to the government on how to tackle climate change effectively. For example, it provides detailed analysis on what Australia’s emissions reductions should be and pathways for how to meet those targets.

    The disappearing Climate Change Authority means there will be one less group conducting vital research in Australia. We can’t accurately or effectively mitigate or adapt to climate change without the most up-to-date climate and energy analysis. This continues the Federal government’s pattern of cutting funding to climate research. First it was the Climate Commission, then it was CSIRO, and now the Climate Change Authority is on the cutting block.

    With the Government spending even less on science, and climate change research, we need to expand our work to ensure the community is informed. Can you chip in and support the future of climate science in Australia?

    The good news is that concern about climate change is now at the highest levels since 2008 (1). So this is the time to keep pushing.

    Let’s keep fighting - keeping the government honest and the community informed.
    Cheers,

    Amanda McKenzie
    Climate Council CEO
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  18. #15768
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I don't think either of you understand me at all.

    "Oh for the good old days, when a kid from the western suburbs could walk into a factory at 14, and if he managed to survive without getting maimed, walk out at 65 and get the pension. Sure he'd struggle all his life to do much more than put food on the table, but those were the days eh?"

    I knew some of those 'kids', they were survivors from the depression and returned men from both wars and my generations fathers and mothers.
    Round Port and Sth Melbourne they mostly paid rent to the churches for 1890's spec housing with cold water taps and in Port earth closet toilets.
    My generation has managed to do better.
    And the next will do even better.

  19. #15769
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wet Feet View Post
    Nobody of my generation " walked into a factory at 14 " Phil.

    In fact , it was already illegal to do so. And they did not have to.
    Pedant. I think that's called deflection.

  20. #15770
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    I don't think so Phil.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  21. #15771
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I don't think so Phil.
    I rest my case.

  22. #15772
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    "The disappearing Climate Change Authority means there will be one less group conducting vital research in Australia. We can’t accurately or effectively mitigate or adapt to climate change without the most up-to-date climate and energy analysis. This continues the Federal government’s pattern of cutting funding to climate research. First it was the Climate Commission, then it was CSIRO, and now the Climate Change Authority is on the cutting block."

    Maybe the French will offer them a job too.............


    The bank tax would make sense except it's a depositor and investor tax as the banks just pass it on
    The before tax house saving measure might be useful to someone on the verge of having a deposit, but for someone starting out given the penchant for governments to meddle, probably not such a good idea.

  23. #15773
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    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  24. #15774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Pedant. I think that's called deflection.
    You made a claim that is just plainly false Phil.
    Australia was a fairer place , for all Australians.

    What are you deflecting ?

  25. #15775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wet Feet View Post
    You made a claim that is just plainly false Phil.
    Australia was a fairer place , for all Australians.

    What are you deflecting ?
    I started my first paid job at 14. Pay was about that too... about $14 a week.

  26. #15776
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    I think I was selling papers at night and delivering before school at about 12 or 13. Then I got a saturday morning job in a fruit shop. Neither paid a lot but I was allowed to take as much fruit and veg as I could carry and it was my choice to do it. I remember the bike sliding on hailstones delivering morning papers once.
    I can't remember what I made, but it was more than my first year apprentice wages.

    I just remembered my best week ever. Riding to work early on a windy saturday a 5 pound note blew into my face. Probably 1956 or 7.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 05-11-2017 at 07:51 AM.

  27. #15777
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    I mowed lawns and did some gardening at that age. I don`t recall what money I made.

    I also pumped petrol and checked people`s tire pressures and cleaned their wind screens , the days when "service stations ' were still that .....

    The point is , it was not industrial revolution England , was it?

  28. #15778
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wet Feet View Post
    You made a claim that is just plainly false Phil.
    Australia was a fairer place , for all Australians.

    What are you deflecting ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wet Feet View Post
    I mowed lawns and did some gardening at that age. I don`t recall what money I made.

    I also pumped petrol and checked people`s tire pressures and cleaned their wind screens , the days when "service stations ' were still that .....

    The point is , it was not industrial revolution England , was it?
    Perhaps you should ask one or more of our indigenous members? It's a much fairer society now.

  29. #15779
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Perhaps you should ask one or more of our indigenous members? It's a much fairer society now.

    No argument there . It`s true.

    Long , long way to go though....

  30. #15780
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    White europeans stole the place in the beginning (and yes I know it's not that simple) and we have been denying that ever since. In some circles Terra Nullis is alive and well.

  31. #15781
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Perhaps you should ask one or more of our indigenous members? It's a much fairer society now.
    Ask a few women too.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  32. #15782
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wet Feet View Post
    You made a claim that is just plainly false Phil.
    Australia was a fairer place , for all Australians.

    What are you deflecting ?
    I don't think I'm deflecting anything. Deflecting in the sense of avoiding the thrust of a question or point brought up here by nitpicking at the detail. I don't think my initial point was about whether Australia is getting more or less fair, (I'd say it's a bit mixed-as noted, indigenous people and women are broadly doing better than ever since white settlement, however the super privileged are more privileged than ever, and by the way probably greater in number than ever).

    However, my point was more an objection to the daily dose of misery you guys bring here, everything's going downhill, it's the end of the world, there's no hope for the younger generation, all is lost. I just think that's crap. I see our generation (I'm mid 50s) as having greater opportunities than our parents, across the board. I see our children as having even greater opportunities than us.

    Housing crisis? My parents had to leave their homeland just to get a decent education and then change countries again to find a job. They both got academic university jobs here, but started off in supported migrant accomodation north of Gepps Cross. Already with 3 kids. I worked in a furniture factory for a while after I left school, more to avoid Uni than anything else-that was my gap year, didn't get to go backpacking in Europe, I was never going to spend my life in a factory, but I'm sure plenty of my coworkers at that factory did. OK they didn't start at 14, maybe 16, but life for them probably pretty much sucked for the next 35 years or so. SA is reeling from the closure of the car industry here. That great provider of employment and prosperity. Honestly? What sort of a life is that, working on a production line until your hearing is shot, your knees and back have given up, you have RSI in half your joints and your skin is covered in psoriasis sores. It just ain't that great.

    Kids these days have so much more freedom, so many choices, such amazing opportunities ahead of them. I hope our society will become less materialistic under their watch. I hope it will become fairer. I hope this very current and short term bout of xenophobia we are experiencing with will diminish. I fear climate change and nuclear war. I fear massive dislocation due to to famine and water shortage, and regional failure of agriculture.

    But I think we are pretty smart. I think our political system is difficult and although some of our politicians are incompetent and some are genuine criminals, most mean well. I am heartened when, as is now happening with a carbon price, our government fails to act, but is ultimately pressured not just by voters but by industry to get on and do something.

    I dont think it will be all smooth sailing, but I do think we will muddle through and that our children will lead exceptional lives.

  33. #15783
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    I hope you are right but things like the housing prices and seeing my girls paying $18 K a year to live in an apartment moderately close to work upsets me. I didn't have to do that, rent was cheap and so were properties. We'd bought, built and paid for our place by the time I was 30.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  34. #15784
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    Yeah but you live in a hippy Shack you built yourself out in the sticks

    Maybe not every family will aspire to own a home and garden in the future. Maybe a lot more people will work from home. Maybe the regions will flourish as we realise it's not neccesary for half the population to live within cooee of Sydney Harbour.
    Last edited by Phil Y; 05-11-2017 at 06:45 PM.

  35. #15785
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    OK, in cash terms we'd saved about $180K corrected for inflation to today's values. Not enough today to buy a house or even a house block...... but sufficient then.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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