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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #1401
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    "……………….something about incompetence".
    Maybe he should go straight into politics………………..
    I think he's already in and up to his neck.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  2. #1402
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    I see that the ABC has done some rapid re-editing to remove coverage of its journalist rummaging through personal items from the downed MH17. Sack him. Sack the editorial staff too.
    From what I saw the items had been well and truly rummaged. The removal of footage was most likely out of concern for the feelings of family that may see it.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  3. #1403
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    From what I saw the items had been well and truly rummaged. The removal of footage was most likely out of concern for the feelings of family that may see it.
    Looted is probably a more accurate word.

  4. #1404
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Hockey was on the box tonight pleading for the Senate to recognise his "mandate", it raises interesting questions about the responsibility of members of both houses to represent the views of the people who voted for them. How can Labor members or Green members be expected to vote against the wishes of those who voted for them ? Their job is to represent their electors.

    I can't comment on the PUP as I don't know what policies they took to the election .

    It seems to me that the mandate thing is purely hyperbole, a party either has the numbers to pass it's bills or it hasn't and Joe hasn't.

    What comes next?
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  5. #1405
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Sauce for the goose etc. What goes around comes around. And of course Joe thought he'd be the PM now didn't he?
    Parties win elections by appealing to their supporters and enough of the floaters to make it. But when they are the government, they are, or should be, the government for the nation. Those who voted for them and those who didn't, and even those who didn't vote at all. This government is not a government for everyone. It's the Peter Reith model, 'why bother with those who aren't going to vote for us anyway'. This government, by it's obvious actions in appointments and priorities and pork is busy rewarding those it perceives as, or who could be in the future their supporters.

    Hockey bleating because he doesn't have control is no different to Labor under Gillard. Crocodile tears on the nightly news are just that. As a certain forumite says, "suck it up".

  6. #1406
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Is it just me or is it getting more polarised over the years ? Are we heading for the kind of polarisation the Yanks suffer or do we already have ?


    "suck it up"
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  7. #1407
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I think as regular if amateur 'commentators' in a closed loop we are too close to really know. We have a rusted on rightie (he'll object) and probably rusted on lefties. And at least one with no where to go. But the press like simplicity, complex explanations of complex matters cause people to turn the tele off and the advertisers wouldn't be pleased. Hence the long out of date 'left and right' labels. Many professional commentators, and their employers have aligned themselves permanently with one major or another and I get the impression that the independents, greens etc are an annoyance that makes their jobs harder, and their masters more difficult to satisfy.
    But I think that there'll nearly always be that 5% odd in the middle that normally determine whose in and whose out.
    But strategic voting, and targeted campaigns are making a difference, not always to the advantage of the majors either.

  8. #1408
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I wonder if Lib and Lab will try to get their Senate voting changes through , they'd certainly have the numbers together but Abetz might have been warned off if he wants the number to get much through this lot.
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  9. #1409
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Jeff, I've been following this thread sporadically, and I find I'm consistently in accordance with your views.

    Congratulations!

    Mike
    PS Abetz is a piece of s**t.
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  10. #1410
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    I try to be more or less objective now Mike, trying to be 'outside', but I still get tempted to reply when I shouldn't. I value Greg's input in particular as one with leanings to the centre right, as absolutist views either way do not help the discussion.
    Of course I do come from the centre left, and I have now very amusing memories of arguments with the Trotskyites in my union, who were effectively so far to the authoritarian left, they were extreme right.

  11. #1411
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    I understand that practice might well make perfect, given the frequency.

    Re "a simple yes/no question".... you'll get the same response every time you try the same bullying tactics.
    We have a character on our community who reckons I'm a bully. He even yelled it at me as he held me up against my fridge. Quite funny in hindsight.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  12. #1412
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I'm here to provide Green Left balance. Green issues are treated with contempt by the majors and of course the majors probably represent mass of city dwelling Australians for whom Green is the colour of their lawn.

    I'd talk to the Green Right but the only Green on the right is a hundred dollar bill.

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  13. #1413
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Here are the results of the ABC RN Dylan lyrics cooperative compilation

    Line 1: Every pleasure’s got an edge of pain, pay for your ticket and don't complain. - Bob Dylan, Silvio

    Line 2: There's no free ride on the edge of the sword, push past the pain for the greatest reward. - Jenny, Adelaide

    Line 3: Though the clerics and miners are driving this train, hear the toilers and paupers arising again. - Chris, Brisbane

    Line 4: From carriage to carriage they're passing the word, but up at the front the message is blurred. - Csilla, Canberra

    Line 5: You might think its random but driver beware, the future's for choosing, we all have a share. - John, Brisbane

    Line 6: The wise men approach with expressions controlled, they count their tobacco and smoke their gold. - Hannah, Sydney

    Line 7: A brain thief is fumbling with a worn out used quote, then shuffles on slowly with it stuffed in his coat. - Bob, Sydney

    Line 8: His footsteps are silent he cannot be seen, his direction a mystery but you know where he's been. - Michael, Brisbane

    Line 9: If you count on redemption you'd best hedge your bets, on this church there's a notice 'no trades, no regrets.' Noel, Brisbane

    Line 10: A thousand disciples bow down and manhandle me, tripping over the line between tribute and parody. Andrew, Sydney

    Line 11: As the wait of your words makes an unending pull, you clutch at a glass half empty, half Fool. Diane, Melbourne

    Line 12: Your poetry's splattered, the words are all red, Your dog's stone cold drunk, the revolution is dead. Tessa, Sydney

    Last Line: And so it ended with a puff not a bang, the poets sneaked off while the court jesters sang. Peter, Brisbane

    and it sounds pretty good when sung !

    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...rticle/5562580
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  14. #1414
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I've only seen this because Gary quoted it.

    Originally Posted by The BigfellaI understand that practice might well make perfect, given the frequency.


    Re "a simple yes/no question".... you'll get the same response every time you try the same bullying tactics.
    Diddums!

    You poor, fragile leela wall flower.

    If you think asking a question over and over because you refused to pony up with a satisfactory answer is "bullying" then I've got some flying pigs to sell you.

    Don't expect me to look at your reply, but by all means start tilting at windmills.
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  15. #1415
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Poor biggy complaining about being bullied again .... he's joking ! The passive aggressive master !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  16. #1416
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Oh look, now the bullies are ganging up.
    Yer a funny man Ian.
    You slag the Labor party, the Greens, the ABC while constantly pushing the Liberal party line. You constantly quote from the Oz while once again slagging any news reports from other papers. Most of your posts seem to be, judging by how they are worded, to be attempts at getting someone to bite.
    I've been accused of bullying by several people on this community over the years and it's usually because my opinion has not been in line with their own personal agendas. Maybe you should examine just why you post on this thread. Is it because you want to discuss Australian politics or do you just want to push Conservative ideology?
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  17. #1417
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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Is it because you want to discuss Australian politics or do you just want to push (insert your own flavour) ideology?
    You can ask that of pretty much everyone who posts here Gary.

    In the past whenever I have deemed to question anything or offer an opinion I've been accused of being a rampant Liberal or having a hotline to Ian (so that we could perhaps scheme and coordinate posts??) despite never ever in my life here having declared any allegiance to any party nor pushing any party line. It has gotten to the point that I dare not express an opinion and feel that I have to be incredibly careful in how I word anything lest it be interpreted to be something completely beyond the realms of what the words actually intend.

    The only reason that I still spend any time on this thread is because I have respect for most of the regular posters here, on both sides of the fence (and there is certainly only two sides, despite posturing - other than those of us who try to remain neutral) and because I do continue to learn from the thread - generally because it causes me to go and do my own research to the discussions held here.
    Last edited by Larks; 07-23-2014 at 12:10 AM.
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  18. #1418
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Greg , you, I and everyone but one are capable of criticising all the parties. I'll happily bag the Greens when they go over the top but there's one person absolutely rusted on and uncritical of one particular party.

    It gets a bit boring after the first 7 years.
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  19. #1419
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    As I joined abt 2009 the paternalist ideologue became boring soon thereafter.

  20. #1420
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    You forget my stated support for other than Abbott. Admittedly an inter-party issue, but one where I was, and still am, to a lesser degree, anti-Abbott and more pro-Turnbull.

    You forget my criticism of the election position of the Libs in relation to the boats? I'm far more supportive of them now though... now that they have stopped the loss of life at sea.

    Let's discuss your rusted on anti-mining approach then. What solutions do you have to the fact that there would be no money for welfare payments of any sort if your approach was adopted? Go for it... tell us how the country will be kept stable, the needy supported, the new energy programs funded. Lay it out...
    I'll respond Ian because it's a reasonable post ... thank you.

    I'll leave the Liberal inside stuff as there is nothing I can do about them. Turnbull would guarantee a Liberal win next time but I think the ideologues would rather loose.

    Mining ? I feel quite strongly that the imbalance in the Australian economy is doing a lot of damage, it's keeping the dollar horribly high to the detriment of every other sector. Farming suffers deeply, you only have to listen to the meat export commentators while the manufacturing story is obvious.

    I think that if the dollar was around 70 cents US the country would have a far better balance of industry and a much more profitable rural sector . The money would be there but from other income streams, one's that are dying right now.

    I'd enlarge but I have a few other tasks right now.
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  21. #1421
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I note a consistently reflexive paternalist syndrome, anyone?

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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Greg, I personally value your posts here. I'm not sure there is a rampant leftie here, at least not one who posts as such, but then maybe I'm not taking enough notice. I certainly try keep my comments to the politics, with I admit one exception and I know I should resist temptation there.
    We could do without Ian and purri sniping, but you just skim over that stuff.
    I presume the comment re 'posturing' was for me, and if so I assure you that the Rudd/Abbott choice was not one I could have on my conscience. We'll see what happens next time round. And I will vote in the State election.

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    BTW, I see that the TWU has been caught cooking thr books, the membership books. They evidently have under half the members that they have claimed. It makes a difference in the influence they have within the ALP. They're part of the NSW right, and that's evidently where the fraud has occured. So what's new, there's no honour amongst thieves. And fraud it is of course. Interesting looking at the names they've been the power base for, Arbib, Sheldon, Conroy and Della Bosca.

  24. #1424
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Greg, I personally value your posts here. I'm not sure there is a rampant leftie here, at least not one who posts as such, but then maybe I'm not taking enough notice. I certainly try keep my comments to the politics, with I admit one exception and I know I should resist temptation there.
    We could do without Ian and purri sniping, but you just skim over that stuff.
    I presume the comment re 'posturing' was for me, and if so I assure you that the Rudd/Abbott choice was not one I could have on my conscience. We'll see what happens next time round. And I will vote in the State election.
    Not at all Jeff, you've been quite clear about your "none of the above" stance and I have the impression that you'd happily vote either Liberal, Labour, Greens or Pup if you honestly felt that any one of them met your morality and capability expectations. I try to think that I'd be the same and have always attempted to follow my head when it comes time to vote. I'm not sure that I always succeed but at every election time I spend a lot of time considering the impact of my vote before I cast it, believing in the value of every vote.

    The only element that I think you and I don't see eye to eye on is that I have a different view and acceptance of the incredible value of our democracy and our freedom to vote, having spent time in countries who are denied that freedom and accept the obligation and responsibility of that freedom when it comes time to shyte or get off the pot.
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  25. #1425
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Oh I realise the rare privilege of having a vote and in a country where baring errors, you know that the process is honest and the electoral commission neutral. And that you know that there'll be no riots or armed guards at the poll.
    I just wish that the process we use, a small number of party officials mostly choosing who we democratically vote for, turned up men and women less interested in power, and more interested in the country. Less party aparatchiks and career politicians might be a good idea, too many debts owed and given long before they are officially preselected. Some in the ALP are proposing, against trenchant opposition, to give the membership a say, and I think that the Libs are ahead of them in this, though they also suffer from the parachute syndrome. The ALP has a long way to go.

  26. #1426
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Greg, FWIW I have no dramas discussing anything with you and have no dramas with people who have different opinions from mine. I'll quite happily converse with bobbys, Hanley Clifford, Sky Blue and a number of others who have views a considerable degree to the right of what I think yours are.

    I do, however, have a problem with Ian with all his "Oops" "Suck it up" "bullies" and other snide remarks that do nothing to edify his character. I dislike the way he's managed to alienate almost every woman on this forum, the latest gibes of "Astrid" directed at Changeng as if she were obviously Meli, simply because she's a strong leftist female. Fortunately she seems to have risen above the retorts that Meli fell for. I find such behaviour to be sexist and personally offensive to me as a human being. I find the way he disparages and dismisses my views to be insulting to my intelligence. He may find it interesting that I was raised as a Christian conservative and was so inclined until my late teens and early twenties, so it's not as if I've managed to come to my current philosophical and political inclinations by accident, rather than design and analysis. I find his postings to have become as shrill and as full of invective as any of the current crop of extreme right-wing shock jocks that dominate commercial talk-back radio.

    He may not have crossed Scot's line, but he's certainly crossed mine. I have no desire to be around him and if he stopped posting here I wouldn't miss him a jot. I've fed him and provided hospitality for him in my house and once considered him a good friend, but those days are long gone. I think it's fair to say he's a highly polarising character and is more than able to stir up the kind of reactions he wants. It's difficult to ignore him as he is a larger than life individual. He's very, very smart and I'm sure is a terrific management consultant. He just rubs me, and a whole pile of others here, up the wrong way. At the very least he deserves to read what my reasons are, and I sincerely hopes he takes note and treats them with the seriousness in the manner they've been offered.

    FWIW, if Turnbull hadn't been rolled by Abbott and we had an ETS in place now, I think Rudd, based upon his subsequent behaviours, would have soiled his own nest by the time his term was up and I might well have been voting for a Liberal candidate here. But there's no such thing as should've/could've/would've.
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I know very little about Oz politics but I do think Duncan's comments concerning Ian are accurate. Meli is alive and well on Facebook as is the skipper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    Greg, FWIW I have no dramas discussing anything with you and have no dramas with people who have different opinions from mine. I'll quite happily converse with bobbys, Hanley Clifford, Sky Blue and a number of others who have views a considerable degree to the right of what I think yours are.

    I do, however, have a problem with Ian with all his "Oops" "Suck it up" "bullies" and other snide remarks that do nothing to edify his character. I dislike the way he's managed to alienate almost every woman on this forum, the latest gibes of "Astrid" directed at Changeng as if she were obviously Meli, simply because she's a strong leftist female. Fortunately she seems to have risen above the retorts that Meli fell for. I find such behaviour to be sexist and personally offensive to me as a human being. I find the way he disparages and dismisses my views to be insulting to my intelligence. He may find it interesting that I was raised as a Christian conservative and was so inclined until my late teens and early twenties, so it's not as if I've managed to come to my current philosophical and political inclinations by accident, rather than design and analysis. I find his postings to have become as shrill and as full of invective as any of the current crop of extreme right-wing shock jocks that dominate commercial talk-back radio.

    He may not have crossed Scot's line, but he's certainly crossed mine. I have no desire to be around him and if he stopped posting here I wouldn't miss him a jot. I've fed him and provided hospitality for him in my house and once considered him a good friend, but those days are long gone. I think it's fair to say he's a highly polarising character and is more than able to stir up the kind of reactions he wants. It's difficult to ignore him as he is a larger than life individual. He's very, very smart and I'm sure is a terrific management consultant. He just rubs me, and a whole pile of others here, up the wrong way. At the very least he deserves to read what my reasons are, and I sincerely hopes he takes note and treats them with the seriousness in the manner they've been offered.

    FWIW, if Turnbull hadn't been rolled by Abbott and we had an ETS in place now, I think Rudd, based upon his subsequent behaviours, would have soiled his own nest by the time his term was up and I might well have been voting for a Liberal candidate here. But there's no such thing as should've/could've/would've.
    Do remind me please, who was it who had the major dust up with Allison? The one that saw her permanently banned.

    Do remind me please, who was it that pursued a whole yes / no line of rubbish? Wouldn't debate a topic, just wanted to act like a dog with a bone.

    The funniest one of the lot was this boatload of desperate Tamils, who turned out to be Singhalese.

    Take a spoonful of cement and harden up.
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  29. #1429
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Ian, snide stuff you've posted at me like "How's that Dragon going?" in the middle of arguing a line on something completely unrelated is the kind of obnoxious behaviour I'm referring too. It's uncalled for and unnecessary and is just plain nasty personal crap which gets my goat up. Stuff like calling Peter a POS because he had the temerity to make strident criticisms of Scott Morrison was uncalled for, unnecessary and just plain nasty.

    You know it, but you persist with it. Little, personal nasty jabs that you know will hurt and will get a rise, but generally go under the radar here.

    You call me a bully for asking a question over and over. I call that utter BS particularly after your spoonful of cement comment in the post above. I don't really care if the refugees were Tamils or Singhalese. The point was there was no proper assessment of their refugee claims. How sadly ironic then that they were all chucked into prison (including the 20 odd children) as soon as they were unloaded back in Sri Lanka! You do get it, but you choose not to acknowledge it.

    The whole Allsion thing was crap. She had it coming after both Greg and I told the pair of you to pull your socks up, and then she went postal at me. Scot banned her because she was conducting a nasty campaign against me by PM. I'm pretty sure Scot can read them as the admin here. You both behaved abysmally and were chasing each other around and slagging each other off. You may recall I ended up defending you against her wilder accusations during that whole episode.

    Anyway, I'm going to not respond at all to you any more. All I'm doing is giving you oxygen here and I'd rather not do that.
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    "I don't really care if the refugees were Tamils or Singhalese. The point was there was no proper assessment of their refugee claims. How sadly ironic then that they were all chucked into prison (including the 20 odd children) as soon as they were unloaded back in Sri Lanka! "

    Duncan the problem of their treatment is that labor or liberal, I don't see a practical difference, mostly because the polls still say that a majority supports it. There are times when governments should lead, and indeed so should oppositions. But power is a seductive mistress and that's what it's all about. And of course there is absolutely no point in raising principle when referring to our majors, that luxury is for the cross benches and greens.



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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    "I don't really care if the refugees were Tamils or Singhalese. The point was there was no proper assessment of their refugee claims. How sadly ironic then that they were all chucked into prison (including the 20 odd children) as soon as they were unloaded back in Sri Lanka! "

    Duncan the problem of their treatment is that labor or liberal, I don't see a practical difference, mostly because the polls still say that a majority supports it. There are times when governments should lead, and indeed so should oppositions. But power is a seductive mistress and that's what it's all about. And of course there is absolutely no point in raising principle when referring to our majors, that luxury is for the cross benches and greens.


    I agree Jeff. I was more than uneasy with the refugee policies of Gillard, but when Rudd got back in and instituted the key part of non-patriation to Australia of those coming by boat I was appalled. The conversation a like minded neighbour and I had, was that Rudd was doing his best impersonation of Abbott at the time.

    I still firmly believe that Gillard was effective at getting legislation through, and, on the whole was doing a reasonable, if somewhat underwhelming job. Maybe she'd have done a whole lot better if Rudd hadn't been conducting his vicious white-ant campaign and the last election result may have been markedly different. I did think that there wasn't much difference between the two majors, aside from climate policy, but I think now I was wrong. The current crop of conservatives in office are simpleton ideologues born of the IPA.

    I note the current critique of Hockey's budget from the AMA tonight. Not many of the peak industry bodies seem particularly happy with Abbott and Hockey and there appears to be the beginnings of internal liberal party rumblings. Turnbull is flawed, but he's a thinker and he'd be a million times better than Abbott and most of his current team. Unfortunately the Liberals are beset with the likes of Bernadi and Cash, and Bishop is making a ham-fist of being speaker.
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    Dragon KA93

  32. #1432
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    57,246

    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Turnbull has no chance, he's a frustrated ALP voters dream. Bishop is a partisan disgrace to the office, but I think she doesn't care at all, much like the Lib leadership in general. The speakers strictly neutral role may not survive this period.
    Re Morrison. I would not be surprised if, in the fullness of time, you'll find a retired Morrison musing on his 'private crises of conscience' during his role in this nasty period of Aussie history. Politicians in general like to re-write their role in history.

  33. #1433
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Above flood level, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    18,328

    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I've actually been rather pleased with Julie Bishop's performance over the last few days and think that maybe she's found her role as FM suits her well. Stranger things happen at sea!
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
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  34. #1434
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    30,405

    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    I've actually been rather pleased with Julie Bishop's performance over the last few days and think that maybe she's found her role as FM suits her well. Stranger things happen at sea!
    I thought the same, she has handled it very well.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  35. #1435
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,977

    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    She's doing this part of her job well but I still don't like her very much, that probably irrelevant though. I found Carr a shameless self promoter. I'm hard to please..... I'd rather have her on this than Carr.

    Abbott has finally found a job were the PM can sound like an Opposition leader and wind up the criticism at very low cost. Russia is a long way away and we have almost no trade. It's very low hanging fruit.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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