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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #9416
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    We don't know how lucky we are....

  2. #9417
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I note that the Nationals leadership are officially not convinced that climate change is real……………… and neither is Brandis……..

    And further to the subject………..
    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-pol...0160421-gobk58
    Last edited by skuthorp; 04-23-2016 at 05:42 AM.

  3. #9418
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Strange that they don't seem to view all other science with same skepticism, OK, not so strange. Follow the money.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  4. #9419
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  5. #9420
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  6. #9421
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.


    It's a serious problem and not a lot seems to be being done about it.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  7. #9422
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    nor ever has been.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #9423
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Something of a hope ??It's certainly going to be needed! There was mention of this on David Attenborough's "Great Barrier Reef" this evening .

    http://www.abc.net.au/science/articl...26/4261169.htm
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  9. #9424
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.


  10. #9425
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Yes, well I was looking for good news but there is lots of bad on the climate change front.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  11. #9426
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    A bit of political commentary on our class based society. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-2...istory/7344962
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  12. #9427
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The big policy divide over property, negative gearing or not, will be interesting to observe.
    The geared wealthy vs those shut out. And it's not a clear divide, the negatively geared have children who are shut out. Of course they could give their kids a property…………….

  13. #9428
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    The big policy divide over property, negative gearing or not, will be interesting to observe.
    The geared wealthy vs those shut out. And it's not a clear divide, the negatively geared have children who are shut out. Of course they could give their kids a property…………….
    Maybe they will, eventually, if the value of their retirement investment isn't chewed up by the cost of their nursing-home care.
    We don't know how lucky we are....

  14. #9429
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    The big policy divide over property, negative gearing or not, will be interesting to observe.
    The geared wealthy vs those shut out. And it's not a clear divide, the negatively geared have children who are shut out. Of course they could give their kids a property…………….
    My concern is the likelihood ...or not, of my kids ever being able to afford housing. In real terms city housing is at least x3 what it was for we boomers, in wage corrected terms.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  15. #9430
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I'm finding it very easy to get very tired , such is life.

    From the political cartoon thread, it seems to fit Australia rather well.... when I think about the Reef and the Carmichael Mine in particular.

    It's a great cartoon, and the Reef is in dire straits, but don't worry about the Carmichael mine. It's not going to happen. The version I agree with, because it makes sense, is that Qld Labor knows perfectly well that the mine will never be opened, and only approved it because it was politically expedient for them to not be seen as "anti-jobs". So, from their perspective, they get the kudos for being all gung ho about hauling FNQ out of the stone age, without having to actually worry about any climate impacts.

  16. #9431
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    and Greg Hunt approves it too.... I hope the damn thing doesn't go ahead and Hunt and Qld Labor are just playing a dud jobs card.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  17. #9432
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Oh I have no doubt that the Coalition would have orgasms if it went ahead. Hunt is as concerned about climate change as sloths are about competing in the Olympic hurdles, and half the LNP senators and MP's are Deniertardus rex.

    The thing is that there is no Indian market for Australian thermal coal. There's not even an Indian market for Indian thermal coal. They have masses of the stuff and it's damned near worthless. Renewables are already cheaper than local coal for power generation in India. If you can't even sell Indian coal to Indians, there's no hope of mining Australian coal and shipping it all the way to India at a profit. Adani know this too.

  18. #9433
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Even better, their bankers know it.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  19. #9434
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Yup. The only way coal mining in the Galilee will go ahead is if the Qld and/or Feds literally pay some company to dig the stuff up and take it away. I doubt that even the Nationals are quite that stupid.

  20. #9435
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    "I doubt that even the Nationals are quite that stupid."
    Err……….. are you sure?

    It's about perceptions. I instance the US's anti missile defence system. I cannot work, not enough time, but that is not what it's about, it's just to give the appearance of working.
    Similarly it doesn't matter to the Lib/Nats if the mine goes no where, as long as they can blame someone else for it's non appearance. And sadly Queensland labour is running the same line.

  21. #9436
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I meant that I doubt that even the Nationals are stupid enough to fully fund the costs of getting someone to dig the stuff up and ship it to India.

  22. #9437
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Actually I think the previous Qld government offered to build the railway.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  23. #9438
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Previous Lib Qld. govt was going to build the rail line and port I think……… jobs……...

  24. #9439
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Yup, I know. But even that wouldn't be enough incentive now.

  25. #9440
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Q&A is stuffed with clergy persons tonight. The subject, religion (duh).
    Could be fun, could be a bore. Depends on how feral the audience is allowed to be……..

  26. #9441
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Now, now Jeff. Cut them some slack....except when they tell the rest of us how to live..... or die.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  27. #9442
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Oh yeah, I saw that advertised the other day and thought "Meh".

  28. #9443
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Now, now Jeff. Cut them some slack....except when they tell the rest of us how to live..... or die.
    Oh I always enjoy the argument, and a common belief was likely advantageous in the ascent of our species, but it's our weakness as well when dogma conflicts become deadly. Being outside the tent so to speak is a definite advantage but I cannot ever escape the feeling that it's all just a bit ridiculous and based on nothing.

    Interesting and boring all at once. Somewhat anally retentive though. Very much 'in house'.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 04-25-2016 at 07:05 AM.

  29. #9444
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Did anyone else get a giggle out of Mirabella's massive case of foot in mouth disease the other day?

  30. #9445
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The hospital cash was likely one of Tony's picks……………… remember Launceston
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-2...centre/6488096

  31. #9446
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Yeah it may have been down to Captain Budgie Smuggler, but Mirabella was an idiot to shoot her mouth off the way she did. She's pretty much ensured the Libs won't get that seat back for yonks.

  32. #9447
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Here's a good piece in today's SMH about the whole nature of Mirabella leaving a bloody stump in place of her nose and machine-gunning her foot to a pulp, as well as a suggestion about what should be done:

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/sophie...24-godp9x.html

    Sophie Mirabella: pork barrelling on its way to IndiDate April 24, 2016 - 10:33PM
    Tim Dick





    If Sophie Mirabella is "the most honest politician in Australia" - as Crikey called her on Friday - then the widespread malaise with Australian politics is well founded. We're all rooned.


    Her honesty, even if the label was ironic, was confessing that $10 million of public money was not given to a local hospital by the Coalition because the voters of Indi picked someone else.


    "I had a commitment for a $10 million allocation for the Wangaratta Hospital that, if elected, I was going to announce a week after the election," she said. "That is $10 million that Wangaratta hasn't had because [independent] Cathy [McGowan] was elected."


    A confession doesn't need to be intended by the confessor as a confession; confessors often don't realise their words have proved their guilt.



    And taking Mirabella at her word, this confession is something else, admitting to a galling example of a political offence rather than a criminal one, the gangrenous pork barrelling which infects Australian politics, which in this case presumably hurt only the sick people of her former electorate. Beyond Indi, the gangrene floods marginal electorates with taxpayers' money, diverting spending on public services according to the political interests of political parties.
    That Mirabella felt so comfortable saying what she did on national television indicates how routine it is. Yet the preference for spending based on electoral marginality rather than demonstrated need is utterly improper.


    It's something legitimately to be considered outrageous, even if it's so everyday that Mirabella's confession has already started to fade away.
    It remains a big deal. Her clear words show an accepted attitude to public money which is fundamentally wrong, no matter how common it might be. It is one influenced by the private interests in the electoral success of a candidate, and one that is dispiritingly widespread.


    This is not just a problem for the former member for Indi, who will hopefully remain dumped from national politics given both her attitude to our money and her other flights of personal fancy, like making sex offenders' registers public so Australia can Google its way to vigilante justice.


    Most Australians, who don't live in marginal electorates, cop the consequences when the projects they need get shoved down the list by those desired by the minority of voters who do. Those in this minority are who decide the government.


    Only this month, the Grattan Institute demonstrated how transport funding is swayed by the marginal seats. Its analysis of budget papers found too much money was spent on the wrong projects in the wrong places.


    "Governments have spent up big in electorates where federal elections are won and lost, funding roads that are not very important to the economy, but are popular with local voters," it said. "In some cases return on investment has been staggeringly low: project evaluation showed one highway upgrade yielded a return of eight cents for each dollar spent."


    That eight-cents-for-a-dollar loser was for part of the Princes Highway in the marginal Victorian electorate of Corangamite. Almost half a billion dollars was spent on a stretch between Geelong to Colac, a town of 12,000 people, with little traffic to justify such a grand road to somewhere tiny.


    Unless, that is, governments think it legitimate to take into account the perilous position of the local member, who was Labor's Darren Cheeseman under the Rudd-Gillard governments, and is now the Liberal, Sarah Henderson. Corangamite has a margin of 3.9 per cent, a "key" seat in this year's election.
    There is a way to reduce the temptation of key seats: remove them, remove the importance of marginal seats entirely.


    Rather than having 150 mini-elections across the country, which discounts the importance of most electors who live in safe seats, there is a way to return power to all voters.


    Allocating seats by the share of the total vote won, proportional representation, would remove much of this marginal seat malfeasance, and inject a shot of fairness into the electoral system. There are types of PR which still allow for local MPs and independents; New Zealand, for instance, has both.
    Its form of PR tightly reflects the share of votes a party gets, by filling their share first with the winners of local races then, if required, allocating seats from a party ticket. If Labor wins 48 per cent of the vote, it gets 48 per cent of the seats. The votes in one constituency are as important as any other. It's the national vote which determines the government.


    The usual argument against PR for the lower house is the difficulty in one party winning a majority and that would lead to instability. Yet since 2000, Australia has had six governments, and New Zealand just two.
    I like this comment below it as well:

    Good Lord - Copy some good idea from NZ? What a heresy! What's next? Lawyerless ACC accident compensation that NZ pioneered in 1975 and which both delivers decent no fault compensation at a fraction of the cost of Australias primitive adversarial system but is also applauded by employers and employees alike? Abolition of the States(provinces) done by NZ in 1855? Passing a coherent town planning and resource management law - the 1991 RMA which eliminates 99% of the litigation and blatant political corruption that bedevils Australian development proposals while sustainably managing natural and physical resources. Heresy I say. The little brothers across the Tasman are to be looked down on, generally ignored (even on ANZAC Day) - Certainly not seen as providing any kind of useful idea to we superior Australians. Heresy I say!
    Sean may have comment on this comment! I'll await our learned colleague's opinion on the above!
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

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    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  33. #9448
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Scary idea there. If we start going down that road, before you know it we'll be saying "eh?" all the time and apologising at the drop of a hat.

  34. #9449
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    ...

    The commenter did leave off triple skin, double diagonal Un Zid kauri planking off the list. Must've been a silly mistake!
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
    Mirror 30141
    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  35. #9450
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The Kiwis already refer to Australia as the West Island. They have plans for world domination. I'm sure of it. Be very afraid.

    Triple skin kauri is good stuff though. They also make some good beers, so they're not all bad.

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