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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #8891
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Oh Ian hears, he's not stupid. He just has other views and priorities.

  2. #8892
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I could do his decision matrix in a nanosecond.
    Xanthorrea

  3. #8893
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    Quote Originally Posted by purri View Post
    I could do his decision matrix in a nanosecond.
    .... and end up your usual 4,500 km away from the right answer, eh Mr Regional Music Expert?

    Remember your Ghana fiasco?

  4. #8894
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    Meanwhile Ruddock has been anointed as Special Ambassador/Minister of State for Whitebread Privileges. How predictable,. Old wood for new while the branches continue to be stacked by both the Concierges and Bromides protecting their respective turf.

    Just watched the newsfeed, what alter ego as Magister Maximus and "self deprecating" persona he projects is beyond me.
    Last edited by purri; 02-08-2016 at 12:02 AM.
    Xanthorrea

  5. #8895
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    You are pushing the Murdoch/Liberal RW line aren't you? He doesn't like the competition, they don't like the criticism.
    Geez, you want to get it just as wrong as old mate, eh? Here... read this one and see how your comment stacks up...


    It has become the regular date night of the nation’s political debate, Clive Palmer joining Tony Jones on Lateline. “Well we don’t want to give you all the headlines in one night, Tony,” said Palmer in April, 2013. “We want to come back — even though you’re the best journalist in Australia.”

    And he did come back, the dating continued again and again. “Thanks, Tony,” said Palmer, now an MP, after the election later that year. “You’re a great journalist, all the best.”


    Most characters in the media, as we know, are strangely devoid of the trait we call ego, yet even still there was some consternation to be heard about Palmer’s comparative assessment of journalistic merit. “Tony Jones is not even the best journalist in his own household,” someone quipped at The Australian’s daily editorial meeting, which was wryly amusing and deliberately no slight at all given Jones is married to Sarah Ferguson of Four Corners, 7.30, Killing Season and Hitting Home fame.


    Truth was that Palmer got an easy ride from the ABC. He was an irritant on the conservative side of politics, a breakaway whose barbs were indulged rather than questioned. And the self-declared billionaire portrayed himself as a victim of the evil Murdoch empire. He even claimed green credentials by staging a photo op with Al Gore. So by hurting Tony Abbott, attacking Rupert Murdoch and pretending to save the planet, Palmer endeared himself to Auntie, even though he was a former National Party operative and would-be coal magnate who had fallen out with the Queensland LNP because it wouldn’t do his commercial bidding.


    Late in 2013 The Australian’s Gold Walkley-winning journalist Hedley Thomas became frustrated. He was reporting on holes in Palmer’s claims and problems in his business empire, yet watched the Palmer United Party founder and leader sail through ABC interviews where he wasn’t pressed. “While spruiking his madcap plans to stimulate the economy, he was not asked to explain anything of his own apparent failure to currently operate any profitable business in Queensland (his nickel refinery in Townsville and resort at Coolum seem to be sinking like the Titanic),” wrote a prescient Thomas, detailing his annoyance. It was as though the ABC interviewers hadn’t even read Thomas’s reports. Instead, Palmer sat, like Lord Muck, at Mark Scott’s table at the Parliamentary Press Gallery’s Midwinter Ball. We only need to ask how we think the ABC might have reported all these revelations if Palmer had remained with the LNP and turned up at parliament in a Rolls Royce to serve as a billionaire government backbencher.


    Still, slowly the ABC, and 7.30’s Conor Duffy in particular, began to follow up on some of Thomas’s revelations. A month after the ball, in July 2014, Palmer granted another ABC interview, this time to Ferguson on 7.30. When she pushed the Member for Fairfax on allegedly unauthorised use of one company’s funds for his political campaigning, he stormed out. “Well I’m not answering any more for you,” he snapped, perhaps regretting he’d agreed to an interview with the woman married to the man he considers Australia’s best journalist.


    He did the same five months later on Lateline, with Emma Alberici. Baiting Clive has now become a national sport. His absurdities about Chinese spies and media conspiracies have been laid bare, and many journalists have started to realise that the proper management of his companies and questions about entitlements owed to workers axed from his Townsville nickel refinery are of more interest to the public than his silly political jibes.


    And so Clive was back with Jones on Wednesday night’s Lateline with the host probing why the refinery had been able to funnel upwards of $10 million into Palmer’s political party while the business was descending into administration. Jones pushed Palmer on whether he had used a pseudonym when allocating company funds or whether he would personally guarantee the entitlements of workers, all to no avail. “You’re just reading Hedley Thomas,” was Palmer’s retort. And he was clearly on the money.


    Lisa Wilkinson, too, sparred with Palmer on Nine’s Today last week. We look forward to more scrutiny as this political juggernaut runs out of control. And we feel we can give the PUP boss one assurance — all his interviewers will have been reading Hedley Thomas.

  6. #8896
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    That Ian thinks the ABC is far left is proof of the pudding, so ridiculous it doesn't bear consideration.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  7. #8897
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    That Ian thinks the ABC is far left is proof of the pudding, so ridiculous it doesn't bear consideration.
    Of course you would say this, wouldn't you. In ignorance of the facts, of course.

    This from a 2013 university survey of journalist's voting intentions and political leanings

    The national broadcaster has repeatedly been attacked for having a seemingly leftist bias, while others have accused News Limited - and particularly its flagship newspaper The Australian - of being overly conservative in its political views.

    At first glance, the findings do not support this assumption, with no significant differences in the way journalists from the ABC and News rate their political views on a scale of 0 (left) to 10 (right).

    However, 41.2% of the 34 ABC journalists who declared a voting intention said they would vote for the Greens, followed by 32.4% for Labor and 14.7% for the Coalition.


    In contrast, 46.5% of 86 News Limited journalists who answered this question said they would vote for Labor, 26.7% for the Coalition, and only 19.8% for the Greens. As well as The Australian, the News stable includes some of the country’s best-selling tabloids such as the Herald Sun, Daily Telegraph, Courier-Mail, Northern Territory News and the Adelaide Advertiser, and some suburban newspapers.


    Among the 86 Fairfax Media journalists who responded, Labor was by far the most popular party at 54.7% support, followed by the Coalition and the Greens, both on 19.8%. The Fairfax journalists came from outlets including the Sydney Morning Herald, The Age, The Canberra Times, a range of regional and suburban newspapers, and metropolitan radio stations.

  8. #8898
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    You are pushing the Murdoch/Liberal RW line aren't you? He doesn't like the competition, they don't like the criticism.
    Quote Originally Posted by purri View Post
    ^why bother talking to cloth ears?
    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Oh Ian hears, he's not stupid. He just has other views and priorities.
    Quote Originally Posted by purri View Post
    I could do his decision matrix in a nanosecond.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    That Ian thinks the ABC is far left is proof of the pudding, so ridiculous it doesn't bear consideration.

    Ha ha.... like a pack of squealing puppies... yap, yap... all a-tither, a content-free zone.

  9. #8899
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    Ah"Bronny-mides", yer beyond the Pale...
    Xanthorrea

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Of course you would say this, wouldn't you. In ignorance of the facts, of course.

    This from a 2013 university survey of journalist's voting intentions and political leanings

    The national broadcaster has repeatedly been attacked for having a seemingly leftist bias, while others have accused News Limited - and particularly its flagship newspaper The Australian - of being overly conservative in its political views.

    At first glance, the findings do not support this assumption, with no significant differences in the way journalists from the ABC and News rate their political views on a scale of 0 (left) to 10 (right).

    However, 41.2% of the 34 ABC journalists who declared a voting intention said they would vote for the Greens, followed by 32.4% for Labor and 14.7% for the Coalition.


    In contrast, 46.5% of 86 News Limited journalists who answered this question said they would vote for Labor, 26.7% for the Coalition, and only 19.8% for the Greens. As well as The Australian, the News stable includes some of the country’s best-selling tabloids such as the Herald Sun, Daily Telegraph, Courier-Mail, Northern Territory News and the Adelaide Advertiser, and some suburban newspapers.


    Among the 86 Fairfax Media journalists who responded, Labor was by far the most popular party at 54.7% support, followed by the Coalition and the Greens, both on 19.8%. The Fairfax journalists came from outlets including the Sydney Morning Herald, The Age, The Canberra Times, a range of regional and suburban newspapers, and metropolitan radio stations.

    It seems you forgot some bits of that report. Like the bit where it says "among those who arguably matter most – the journalists in senior editorial ranks who have the most power to decide news agendas – a dramatically different picture emerged. Among the 83 senior editors who took part in the survey, the Coalition was the party of choice on 43.2%, followed by Labor (34.1%) and the Greens (11.4%)."

    The same source you quoted also says"It is important to note that there is little research showing that journalists' personal political biases affect their work."

    If a source you believe important enough to quote says that the senior editors are right wing and also says that there is little evidence that journos' politics affect their work, then your point is effectively destroyed. Any bias among junior ranks would be effectively outweighed by the bias of the bosses.
    Last edited by Chris249; 02-08-2016 at 03:15 AM.

  11. #8901
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post

    It seems you forgot some bits of that report. .... snip....If a source you believe important enough to quote says that the senior editors are right wing and also says that there is little evidence that journos' politics affect their work, then your point is effectively destroyed. Any bias among junior ranks would be effectively outweighed by the bias of the bosses.
    No, no, no..... there's nothing there to say that the "senior editors are right wing" as you claim.

  12. #8902
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    I suppose Ian it depends on how much actual independence those editors have. And that I suppose depends on how cynical you are. Regarding Murdoch papers I think my cynicism well founded but they all are businesses first and reporters of fact second………. or in some cases a very bad 4th.
    Re the boy from Manaus, the doctor concerned seems to be sticking to her story and it seems the best face that can be put on it is that the reporter got two stories mixed. The ABC likely doesn't have the research resources it once had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I suppose Ian it depends on how much actual independence those editors have. And that I suppose depends on how cynical you are. Regarding Murdoch papers I think my cynicism well founded but they all are businesses first and reporters of fact second………. or in some cases a very bad 4th.
    Re the boy from Manaus, the doctor concerned seems to be sticking to her story and it seems the best face that can be put on it is that the reporter got two stories mixed. The ABC likely doesn't have the research resources it once had.
    Oh come on... look at the stuff I posted about Palmer. The ABC pandered to him and loved the fact that they could needle the LibNats with him. If that's your nirvana when it comes to editorial independence, then it's a stuffed up world that you want. It's media from the margins, not media for the people.

    The ABC doesn't have research resources? Rubbish. Pure twaddle. I can't be bothered looking up the latest funding, but last time I checked, it was $1.4 billion a year. Priorities man, priorities. If they can't manage the twats who waddle off at 2pm, having done 10 minutes work for the day, then that's their problem. I've been inside their hallowed halls a few times... even did a half hour interview on 2BL once upon a time. I know exactly what sort of organisation it is.... it's one that needs a decent razor taken to it. Get some accountability happening.

  14. #8904
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    No, no, no..... there's nothing there to say that the "senior editors are right wing" as you claim.
    What do you think this means; "Among the 83 senior editors who took part in the survey, the Coalition was the party of choice on 43.2%"?? I suppose it depends on one's definition of "left", but given the current politics of Labour one would hardly say they are "left" compared to most other advanced economies.

    Certainly the piece you quoted as a whole gives a different reading to the bits you selectively quoted.
    Last edited by Chris249; 02-08-2016 at 05:09 AM.

  15. #8905
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    Oh I agree re Palmer, a waste of space especially when his senators deserted him but fascinating in the way that Trump is as he self destructed. All hat and no cattle as the Americans say.
    "The ABC pandered to him and loved the fact that they could needle the LibNats with him."
    It sells to their demographic. Even the ABC has to sell. As to the organisation, I have no knowledge or insight as to how it works internally. And I watch even less TV than I did last year of any sort. As for 'a razor' it depends who wields it as to the results.

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    [QUOTE=The Bigfella;4794210 I've been inside their hallowed halls a few times... even did a half hour interview on 2BL once upon a time. [/QUOTE]

    So does being inside an office a few times and doing an interview give you such great insight into an organisation? How did you get a look at the timesheets to know when people clocked on or off?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    What do you think this means; "Among the 83 senior editors who took part in the survey, the Coalition was the party of choice on 43.2%"

    It means that 2 out of 5 had voting intentions that would see them vote for the Coalition. Apart from the fact that the Coalition isn't necessarily right wing - and contains those with a significant left wing bent, it also means that near 60% weren't going to vote for the Coalition.

    In case you didn't notice, a higher percentage were going to vote for Labor & the Greens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    So does being inside an office a few times and doing an interview give you such great insight into an organisation? How did you get a look at the timesheets to know when people clocked on or off?
    As for your second question... we covered that here some time ago. Feel free to use the search function.

    Back to your first question.... that's a trade secret. It's something I have a bit of a knack for.

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    Actually from dim recall of old past polls that seems to be a consistent figure for journalists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    It means that 2 out of 5 had voting intentions that would see them vote for the Coalition. Apart from the fact that the Coalition isn't necessarily right wing - and contains those with a significant left wing bent, it also means that near 60% weren't going to vote for the Coalition.

    In case you didn't notice, a higher percentage were going to vote for Labor & the Greens.
    45.5% Labour and Green, 43.2% Coalition is not "2 out of 5" voting Coalition.

    Labour is not necessarily right wing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    As for your second question... we covered that here some time ago. Feel free to use the search function.

    Back to your first question.... that's a trade secret. It's something I have a bit of a knack for.
    You do like your vague claims to special status, don't you? You imply that you have special experience, but won't say what it is. You claim you have a knack for something, but won't give any evidence for this, or give any clue that could allow one to use a search function without wading through search terms such as "investigator". I've checked some of your threads and found no basis for this claim to special status.

    So I'm still curious - how did you know that the people leaving at 2pm had not been there since arriving well before dawn to draft stories for the 5am news? How did you know how many of them may have been taking an early mark after working all weekend? Do you expect the workers who deliver the Sunday afternoon news to work 9 hours a day 7 days a week? How did you whether they had been doing late hours re-wiring the electronics? I've been at mines where people left about 2pm - are you saying miners are lazy sods?


    On voting intentions - historically the Nats/Country and Libs have been a Coalition for decades - your own source called them "a party", not two parties. Green and the Labour have never been a coalition. That means of those we have figures for, 49% vote Coalition v 38% Labour and 13% Green.

    No matter what one's definition of "Right" is, the fact is that you left out two significant bits of information from the source. If you didn't trust the source to present a proper picture, why did you quote it? And on top of all that, of course, is the fact that newspaper proprietors influence their senior people.
    Last edited by Chris249; 02-08-2016 at 06:20 AM.

  22. #8912
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    Well I'm not voting for Ball Shortage and I reckon Turnbull had lost me as well.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  23. #8913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    You do like your vague claims to special status, don't you? You imply that you have special experience, but won't say what it is. You claim you have a knack for something, but won't give any evidence for this, or give any clue that could allow one to use a search function without wading through search terms such as "investigator". I've checked some of your threads and found no basis for this claim to special status.

    So I'm still curious - how did you know that the people leaving at 2pm had not been there since arriving well before dawn to draft stories for the 5am news? How did you know how many of them may have been taking an early mark after working all weekend? Do you expect the workers who deliver the Sunday afternoon news to work 9 hours a day 7 days a week? How did you whether they had been doing late hours re-wiring the electronics? I've been at mines where people left about 2pm - are you saying miners are lazy sods?


    On voting intentions - historically the Nats/Country and Libs have been a Coalition for decades - your own source called them "a party", not two parties. Green and the Labour have never been a coalition. That means of those we have figures for, 49% vote Coalition v 38% Labour and 13% Green.

    No matter what one's definition of "Right" is, the fact is that you left out two significant bits of information from the source. If you didn't trust the source to present a proper picture, why did you quote it? And on top of all that, of course, is the fact that newspaper proprietors influence their senior people.

    Very creative of you, morphing 43% voting Coalition into 49%. How did you manage that trick? Assuming something, eh? It was 43% Coalition. Labor and the Greens acted in cohorts during the Gillard penance.

  24. #8914
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    I see our Blackshirts boss is complaining about the outing of what's going on in our OS detention camps. But there is no political pressure because both majors support the detentions, the secrecy, and by implication the abuses. And abuses will occur if secrecy means there are no consequences, many humans are like that. It's not good for the inmates or their guards. Depresses or radicalises the prisoners and ensures their ongoing mental problems. And desensitises and brutalises their guards who presumably will come back into our society and continue their careers in that field.
    Eventually we will have to confront the problem, or keep them all there till they die.

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    They're not supporting the abuses by implication, they're supporting and enabling them with a brutal detention system that punishes people that report abuse. The same sort of people that are obliged to mandatory reporting of abuse back in the civilized world.

    As for the impact on guards, what type of person do you think they're recruiting?
    We don't know how lucky we are....

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Of course you would say this, wouldn't you. In ignorance of the facts, of course.

    This from a 2013 university survey of journalist's voting intentions and political leanings

    The national broadcaster has repeatedly been attacked for having a seemingly leftist bias, while others have accused News Limited - and particularly its flagship newspaper The Australian - of being overly conservative in its political views.

    At first glance, the findings do not support this assumption, with no significant differences in the way journalists from the ABC and News rate their political views on a scale of 0 (left) to 10 (right).

    However, 41.2% of the 34 ABC journalists who declared a voting intention said they would vote for the Greens, followed by 32.4% for Labor and 14.7% for the Coalition.


    In contrast, 46.5% of 86 News Limited journalists who answered this question said they would vote for Labor, 26.7% for the Coalition, and only 19.8% for the Greens. As well as The Australian, the News stable includes some of the country’s best-selling tabloids such as the Herald Sun, Daily Telegraph, Courier-Mail, Northern Territory News and the Adelaide Advertiser, and some suburban newspapers.


    Among the 86 Fairfax Media journalists who responded, Labor was by far the most popular party at 54.7% support, followed by the Coalition and the Greens, both on 19.8%. The Fairfax journalists came from outlets including the Sydney Morning Herald, The Age, The Canberra Times, a range of regional and suburban newspapers, and metropolitan radio stations.
    Ah! Now I see it. Concern for the environment is Left..... that should be obvious, concern for anything but profits is ''Left'' in your brave new Thaterite world. News sunshine. There are no profits if the environment goes down the toilet and the myopic insistence on the supremacy of the 3 month returns over anything at all will give us a desert on a rock. Richest man in the desert doesn't sound that flash .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanz View Post
    They're not supporting the abuses by implication, they're supporting and enabling them with a brutal detention system that punishes people that report abuse. The same sort of people that are obliged to mandatory reporting of abuse back in the civilized world.

    As for the impact on guards, what type of person do you think they're recruiting?
    Yes, the guards may well be enjoying their work, I met a few people in Aboriginal affairs who would have loved the job.

    All Australia has to do is bastadise refugees claimants more than say the Taliban , IS or Asad and they will want to go back, it's all so simple.

    I think Labor and the LibNats should get together and have rolls of dunny paper printed bearing our signatures on the Refugee Convention and distribute them free to all households. Just to make Australia's position plain and simple.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Very creative of you, morphing 43% voting Coalition into 49%. How did you manage that trick? Assuming something, eh? It was 43% Coalition. Labor and the Greens acted in cohorts during the Gillard penance.
    Creative? No, I quite specifically and clearly noted that those percentages referred to "those we have figures for."

    Read the source. They don't give voting intentions for 100% of senior journalists. I corrected that by looking at the intentions of "those we have figures for". It was stated loud and clear. Surely that would have been immediately obvious to someone who has your (claimed) special knacks and experience - things which you still refuse to provide any evidence for.

    By the way, can I ask again how you knew that the people who left the ABC at 2pm were working short hours? Can I also ask when you think the dawn shift for any broadcaster is expected to leave? A very quick Google shows a commercial broadcaster starting at 4 am. A person starting at 4 am and leaving at 2 pm would have done 10 hours work.

    So - where is your proof that these people you saw leaving had not done a long shift? Come on, you found it easy to slag these people off - surely you will find it easy to give us the facts on which you base your insults.


    Oh, and the Greens did NOT have ministers as a minority party, like the Nats have done for decades. They did not have the same sort of ability to introduce bills knowing that as a coalition member, they would get the same level of support. For someone who claims such a lot of special expertise, you don't seem to grasp the difference between having people in cabinet and working as ministers, and not having them.
    Last edited by Chris249; 02-09-2016 at 05:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Creative? No, I quite specifically and clearly noted that those percentages referred to "those we have figures for."

    Read the source. They don't give voting intentions for 100% of senior journalists. I corrected that by looking at the intentions of "those we have figures for". It was stated loud and clear. Surely that would have been immediately obvious to someone who has your (claimed) special knacks and experience - things which you still refuse to provide any evidence for.

    By the way, can I ask again how you knew that the people who left the ABC at 2pm were working short hours? Can I also ask when you think the dawn shift for any broadcaster is expected to leave? A very quick Google shows a commercial broadcaster starting at 4 am. A person starting at 4 am and leaving at 2 pm would have done 10 hours work.

    So - where is your proof that these people you saw leaving had not done a long shift? Come on, you found it easy to slag these people off - surely you will find it easy to give us the facts on which you base your insults.


    Oh, and the Greens did NOT have ministers as a minority party, like the Nats have done for decades. They did not have the same sort of ability to introduce bills knowing that as a coalition member, they would get the same level of support. For someone who claims such a lot of special expertise, you don't seem to grasp the difference between having people in cabinet and working as ministers, and not having them.
    Oh, so you cooked the books. Riiiight.

    Re ABC... sources and info are in this thread, some time ago... or was it another thread about the ABC? Whatever. It's there. Feel free to get up to speed. Maybe whilst doing your statistics course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Ah! Now I see it. Concern for the environment is Left..... that should be obvious, concern for anything but profits is ''Left'' in your brave new Thaterite world. News sunshine. There are no profits if the environment goes down the toilet and the myopic insistence on the supremacy of the 3 month returns over anything at all will give us a desert on a rock. Richest man in the desert doesn't sound that flash .
    Hang on... I'm to the right of old mate Attila, but I'm a greenie. Do try and construct a reasonable argument, please.

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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I did, your version of a leftie is anyone with a concern for the environment or human rights...... thus you are as you say, very much to the right.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  32. #8922
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    31,827

    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Hang on... I'm to the right of old mate Attila, but I'm a greenie. Do try and construct a reasonable argument, please.
    I'm glad I'd put my cup down when I read that little gem.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  33. #8923
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,749

    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Yep, he can do that if you read his twaddle in the morning.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  34. #8924
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    31,827

    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  35. #8925
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    31,827

    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    And how can this possibly be considered legal?
    http://www.afr.com/business/media-an...20140216-ixs2c
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

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