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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #8646
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    We could change the tax laws but of course Google, Microsoft , Visa and all the others would just close down shop and forgo any Australian business .... or so I've been told.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  2. #8647
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    We could change the tax laws but of course Google, Microsoft , Visa and all the others would just close down shop and forgo any Australian business .... or so I've been told.
    Did someone mention flying pigs?
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  3. #8648
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    No, I'm serious .Every time changing the tax laws to catch the cheats someone here tells me it will be the end of employment, corporations will flee at the very thought.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  4. #8649
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    2 down, a few bad choices by Turnbull .... mature.

    Jamie Briggs resigns over late-night bar scandal in Hong Kong, Mal Brough stands aside over Slipper affair

    By political reporter Francis Keany
    Updated about an hour ago

    )


    Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull's Government has been rocked after two scandal-hit MPs stood down from their frontbench portfolios today.
    Liberal MP Mal Brough will stand aside, pending a police investigation, while Jamie Briggs has tendered his resignation.
    Mr Briggs has resigned as Minister for Cities and the Built Environment following a late-night incident involving a female public servant in a Hong Kong bar during an official overseas visit last month.
    The South Australian MP called a press conference on Tuesday to say the public servant took offence at his actions in the bar.
    "At the conclusion of the official programme for the day, my chief of staff and I went for dinner and we invited several other officials, of which one female public servant agreed to attend," he said.

    "At the conclusion of the dinner (which I paid for personally) we went to a popular and, as it transpired, very crowded bar for drinks during which we interacted between the three of us and with others in what I believed, at the time, was an informal manner.
    "At the conclusion of the evening, the public servant left to return home and my chief of staff and I returned to our hotel together.
    "At no point was it my intention to act inappropriately and I'm obliged to note for the record that nothing illegal has been alleged or in fact did occur," he told a press conference.

    "However, in the days following the evening, the public servant ... raised concerns about the appropriateness of my behaviour towards her at the venue.
    "I've apologised directly to her but after careful reflection about the concerns she raised and the fact that I was at a bar late at night while on an overseas visit I have concluded this behaviour has not met the particularly high standards for ministers."
    Minutes after Mr Briggs's press conference, it was announced Mr Brough would stand aside.
    The Special Minister of State and Minister for Defence Materiel and Science has been under investigation by the Australian Federal Police over the alleged copying of the diary of former speaker Peter Slipper.
    In a statement, Mr Turnbull said Mr Brough would step down from his ministerial role pending the completion of inquiries by police.

    "In offering to stand aside Mr Brough has done the right thing, recognising the importance of the Government maintaining an unwavering focus on jobs, economic growth and national security," Mr Turnbull said.
    In a letter to the Prime Minister, Mr Brough said he made the decision because he has not been given any indication when the AFP's investigation will be concluded.
    "It disappoints me that this matter hasn't been resolved by this time as all facts have been in the public domain for years and the public statements of Mr Ashby confirm my position that at no time did I counsel or procure him for any improper purpose," Mr Brough said.
    "I look forward to resuming my ministerial responsibilities and assisting with the important work of Government once the investigation is complete."
    Mr Brough said the AFP has told him the earliest they could interview him about the allegations was after January 5, 2016.
    Minister for Finance Mathias Cormann will act as the Special Minister of State, while Defence Minister Marise Payne will also act as Minister for Defence Materiel and Science.
    Minister for the Environment Greg Hunt will replace Mr Briggs as Minister for Cities and the Built Environment.
    Mr Briggs, the Liberal Member for Mayo, is expected to remain in Federal Parliament as a backbencher.
    "While disappointed by the conduct that led to his resignation, I thank Mr Briggs for his capable service as a Minister," Mr Turnbull said.
    "I look forward to Mr Briggs continuing to make a valuable contribution to the work of the Government in the future."

    more at http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-2...tbench/7058266
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  5. #8650
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    No, I'm serious .Every time changing the tax laws to catch the cheats someone here tells me it will be the end of employment, corporations will flee at the very thought.
    No government is going to do it. So much easier to just tighten part of the belt.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  6. #8651
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Well apart from the timing which is risible, Brough had to take some leave once the police became involved. I know nothing about Briggs, but at least he made the call himself.

    I do not have you on an ignore list Ian, I've never had one. But I may ignore you.

  7. #8652
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Well apart from the timing which is risible, Brough had to take some leave once the police became involved. I know nothing about Briggs, but at least he made the call himself.

    I do not have you on an ignore list Ian, I've never had one. But I may ignore you.
    Same.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  8. #8653
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Brough's place in cabinet was a joke, the result of some very muddled thinking.... it was just a matter of time 'til the boys in blue came knocking.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  9. #8654
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    Oddly I think he was quite a good minister as pollies go, but Tony has probably done him severe career damage.
    Turnbull was after the leadership, and Brough was a supporter. I guess he had to let process take it's course. And maybe that was the right way to do it.

  10. #8655
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    A reasonable way of putting it but he was hopelessly compromised and that has to detract from any assessment of his effectiveness, he certainly wasn't the ideal bloke for Special Minister of State but Defence Materiel ? Sure... temporarily.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  11. #8656
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Okay I've caught up with what you guys are talking about.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-35192050

    I'm busy transcribing the first minutes book of our Co-op. All hand written by many different hands and some water damage...tricky in places. Needs doing though we have 38 years of history now.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  12. #8657
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Um………..making any 'adjustments' along the way? I mean with all that water damage………..

  13. #8658
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Um………..making any 'adjustments' along the way? I mean with all that water damage………..
    Trying very hard to keep it accurate and not revisionist.
    Some annotation in italics.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  14. #8659
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    From reports this morning the reshuffle of ministries might be more comprehensive now Turnbull has the opportunity.
    I wonder how the Nat's will come out of it. There seem to be efforts in train to prevent Barney becoming Deputy PM. I'm not surprised at that.

  15. #8660
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Me either, but the next election could be a game changer for him. Shenhua and all that...... if he could stop it he'd win otherwise ....
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  16. #8661
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    Kathy Jackson and a Victorian MP, Caesar Melhem an ex industrial union organiser have been named by the RC for possible prosecution. Melhem had also been heavily involved in branch stacking. The Vic premier has been reluctant to sack him but now it's official, like Brough, he can act without upsetting the factions.
    "The commission has referred former Health Services Union national secretary Kathy Jackson to authorities to consider whether she has committed criminal offences.It said she had used union funds for her own purposes and may have committed a crime by obtaining $250,000 from an employer by false pretences.
    Victorian Labor politician and former AWU Victorian secretary Cesar Melhem was also referred to authorities, with the commission saying he may have committed offences relating to a payment from Cleanevent and an agreement with Thiess John Holland".

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-3...leased/7059348

  17. #8662
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    How do you fancy Abbott being back in cabinet again?
    How do you think that Malcolm might feel about it?
    How do you think the electorate might react?

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...1b62e909427dce

  18. #8663
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I do hate to say it, but she's merely following Australian Parliamentary precedents. More so than most possibly, but then the pollies play these matters very close to their chests. How long has she owed the cash? Some of our PM's owed taxes for years and only paid on publicity.
    Shall we say disappointed, which is usual with our 'representatives', but not surprised.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 12-30-2015 at 12:05 AM.

  19. #8664
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I do hate to say it, but she's merely following Australian Parliamentary precedents. More so than most possibly, but then the pollies play these matters very close to their chests. How long has she owed the cash? Some of our PM's owed taxes for years and only paid on publicity.
    Shall we say disappointed, which is usual with our 'representatives', but not surprised.
    Pretty much sums it up Jeff.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  20. #8665
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    How do you fancy Abbott being back in cabinet again?
    How do you think that Malcolm might feel about it?
    How do you think the electorate might react?

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...1b62e909427dce
    I can't read the Oz story without paying and they aren't really something I'd choose to read but on your summary....

    He wasn't too bad a Health Minister except for his RU486 procrastination , no doubt under orders from Pell. Malcolm might quite like having him under cabinet rules but the electorate may not agree, now that he has been revealed as an unreconstructed 1950s man.

    What say you?
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  21. #8666
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Labour put Garrett in the cabinet to keep him quiet, same with Hunt intially. But I doubt that cabinet solidarity would keep Tony quiet long, and imagine the leaks, true and false, to 2UE and the Oz.
    OTOH "keep your friends close…………………..".

  22. #8667
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    It's good to be on their ignorance list - they won't get upset when I mention that it's a bit like dealing with an Alzheimer's sufferer in here.

    I'm still waiting to hear who these supposed cheats are. Does it take an IQ over 50 to understand that a zero tax bill doesn't necessarily (nor even usually) correlate with cheating. I suppose that an entitlement mentality means no exposure to legitimate tax deductions.... after all, one has to both earn an income and invest in order to get deductions. I don't hold out much hope for them ever understanding these things.
    It doesn't take an IQ of over 50 to understand transfer pricing and other methods of doing what most reasonable people would call "tax evasion". The ATO has been talking pretty openly about such issues but how in the world do you expect people in the street to know exactly how big corporations are currently arranging their tax?

  23. #8668
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Labour put Garrett in the cabinet to keep him quiet, same with Hunt intially. But I doubt that cabinet solidarity would keep Tony quiet long, and imagine the leaks, true and false, to 2UE and the Oz.
    OTOH "keep your friends close…………………..".
    Ambassador to Iceland ?
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  24. #8669
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    Well, since it's said that no one in the world knows the entire fabric of Australian tax law (which is as complex as it is because of people trying to find loopholes) and taxation matters are partly confidential, it's not too surprising that people can't pinpoint the reason they have concerns.

    To bring it back to a boating theme, look at the AYF/Kenwood Cup "donation" scheme of a few years back. Most people would call it tax evasion, but the information about the "donations" does not appear to be on public databases like Austlii, probably because it was deemed to be a matter concerning private individuals. When there is that sort of murkiness around it's understandable that some people are not specific about their concerns, especially when it seems reasonable that a major corporation should (in a normal period) make taxable profits.

    The AYF/Kenwood Cup scheme, by the way, went like this if memory serves. People are allowed to claim tax for donations to charities, OK. The Australian Yachting Federation (or perhaps ORCA or another subsidiary) had charitable status, OK. All well and good.

    But then a bunch of yacht owners came up with a scheme that allowed them to donate (say) $100k to Yachting Australia - and get all that written off their income. Yachting Australia then said "thank you - oh and by the way we'd like to sponsor your yacht to the Kenwood Cup - here's $100k". So effectively the yachties were getting to claim their own racing as a charity.

    Whatever one may think about paying tax, it's pretty obvious that no one who drafted the Tax Act thought that a charity would just pass the money back to yacht owners. It's that sort of thing that makes for so much suspicion and also for so much red tape, because one assumes that now the Tax Act or ATO rulings or whatever now has another few pages to try to stop the same thing happening again.

    My favourite part of the story concerns another yachtie (let's call him....say.... EDIT - nope, let's not name any names....he sues people). As told by one of his long-term crew, when this prominent racing identity heard that the Federal Police and ATO had been involved in raids on the yachties involved in the scheme, he rang his accountants and said "why the hell didn't you get me into this - any tax dodge good enough to involve the Feds is a tax dodge I want to be involved in" (or words to that effect). Then he sacked them for not being creative enough.
    Last edited by Chris249; 12-30-2015 at 06:10 AM.

  25. #8670
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    "The Royal Commission has made 93 referrals for proceedings relating to possible breaches of laws. More than half relate to potential criminal prosecutions."

    It will be interesting to see how many come to court, and how long they take, and how many convictions result, and how much it will cost. A generation of lawyers will prosper upon the report.
    Not to say that it hasn't been happening, of course it has.
    I'd also like to establish 'respect for the law' in regard to tax matters (see 9367). The lawyers will win either way there too of course.

  26. #8671
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I'm still generally convinced that the whole Royal Commission was set up to smear Shorten and in that case it was likely thought necessary by Abbott with his ''popularity'' ratings but has proven rather unnecessary once the Libs got sane and dumped him. Surely some kind of AFP investigation of the unions could have done the job for less than $87 million?.... and just as effectively.
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  27. #8672
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    The bit I've read doesn't read like a normal Royal Commission report. It's much less objective and dispassionate than usual, which makes it seem as if the claims that there was a conflict of interest may have been justified, or perhaps the Commissioner just has an unusual writing style. Of course, there were (and doubtless still are) a lot of scumbags at the top end of the union movement. There are also a lot of passionate people working hard for a lot less than they could get elsewhere at the lower ends of the unions who are getting shafted. But as far as proving that any one side of the political divide has a monopoly on its feelings of entitlement, the union report has to be balanced against all the other evidence that the big end of town has the same sort of mentality.

    And yes, BF, as I clearly said, the YA/Kenwood Cup incident occurred some time ago, but unless things have changed (and there's no evidence for that) it indicates how reasonable it is to be dubious about how much tax some of those from the big end of town are paying, and about how far "entitlement mentalities" go.

    PS - yep, the union report shows what happens when you don't have transparency and proper regulation - but when you put the right controls in place, people then whine "there's too much red tape and too many people sitting around rubber stamping stuff".

  28. #8673
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Meanwhile, any change re an enquiry into the CBA and it's financial advisors?

  29. #8674
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Very, very, very slowly. it's the wrong kind of corruption to warrant careful examination.
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  30. #8675
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Well, no.... if that's the case, they aren't the "right controls" then, are they?
    So exactly what controls are you going to put in place that don't involve any extra work, any extra rules or procedures, and no one to check if they have been followed?

    If you're not going to have any rules or anyone to check if they have been followed then you know what? People may just find a way to keep on doing the wrong thing.

  31. #8676
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Apart from Labour seizing on the Work choices label and activity on twitter, there's not much happening.
    So in the spirit of the NT news for new year I give you…………………...
    Six white boomers are so passe…………..

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-3...n'/7061890

  32. #8677
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    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  33. #8678
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    I was mistaken, it seems that the white croc. has eaten Gonski. Stand by for a new rowing shed for a private business near you.
    Mal is shaping as a less clumsy Tony.

  34. #8679
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    There are certainly similarities in his priorities .

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  35. #8680
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    A very good discussion about Malcolm Fraser, a quite sympathetic treatment of a complicated and compassionate man.

    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...fraser/7030132
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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