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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #8576
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Bearing in mind the support on the right for Tony..... who would see them defeated resoundingly..... rationality doesn't enter the conversation. It's ideology and more ideology plus a bucket of right wing religious fervor versus what most of us recognise as "liberalism".
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  2. #8577
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    If corporations paid the same tax as PAYE unionists the country would be a better place.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  3. #8578
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    If the unions were held to the same standards as public companies, the world would be a better place. Accountability, transparency, etc.
    An interesting statement, could you tell me which laws unionists aren't subject to?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  4. #8579
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    If corporations paid the same tax as PAYE unionists the country would be a better place.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    ... and there'd be even less unionists. How do you think jobs are created? Through taxation?
    You really, really don't like corporations paying their fair share do you ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  5. #8580
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    How about that, I can agree mostly with both of you. Unions are nobbled to some extent by their history and justifiable distrust of……………. Corporations that expend vast amounts on lawyers dodging what taxes they can, which is why the union movement distrusts them partly.

    The common factor here are lawyers. Think about it and follow the money.

    Of course Super funds, even industry based ones invest in those same corporations…………………….

    Convoluted aint it?

  6. #8581
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Yep, but I'd still like them to pay tax. You know, something for the schools and hospitals ..... rather than weaseling out of everything .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  7. #8582
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I think that corporations law regarding shareholder benefits oblige them to do so to some extent.

  8. #8583
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Some extent would be reasonable. Zero is not.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  9. #8584
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Yep, that's real winner. Ring Turnbull right now !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  10. #8585
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Of course Ian , of course, although I was talking about Australian corporations or the Australian branches of foreign corporations operating within Australia and making their profit from us.

    Whatever you think is fair.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  11. #8586
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    How about balancing the budget ?
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  12. #8587
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    As I said ring Malcolm, he'll be all ears.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  13. #8588
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    So... what's your prime objective? Something that you can suck more tax out of, or something that provides more opportunity for Australians to contribute, rather than take?

    Oh... I think you've already made that clear.
    I would have thought that was clear...force corporations to pay their taxes.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  14. #8589
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Fairness...... stopping corporations bludging on the system, using infrastructure paid for by other's taxes.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  15. #8590
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Come on old fella, read your constitutional tax breakdown law again. Roads, rail, general services.... the whole gummut of what makes a place like Australia better than Zimbabwe to do business in. It isn't just the minerals in the ground .... in fact the good government and moderation you would like to toss in favour of a corporate state is the very reason for Australia's general success.

    Repeat...''Tony is gone, I must get with the new programme'' ... to yourself a few times.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  16. #8591
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    If the Adani mine and port go ahead with it's own finance and without state subsidies, then apart from a lease of the right of way and resource taxes, and unless they are eligible for the diesel subsidy, they should be on their own. I suppose the argument will be on the tax levels. Of course if it goes ahead and then falls over because of coal prices what then? Who fixes the hole in the ground?
    How about a nuke waste storage?

  17. #8592
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Really? It's about time you got with the new guy. Tony's gone.... remember.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  18. #8593
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    If the Adani mine and port go ahead with it's own finance and without state subsidies, then apart from a lease of the right of way and resource taxes, and unless they are eligible for the diesel subsidy, they should be on their own. I suppose the argument will be on the tax levels. Of course if it goes ahead and then falls over because of coal prices what then? Who fixes the hole in the ground?
    How about a nuke waste storage?
    Ian is against anyone getting that, particularly farmers.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  19. #8594
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Hmm. There's an idea.... $75 billion more to invest in new enterprise creation. I'm sure we could cut $75 billion out of the expenditure side... and there'd be 5% more of the population employed and paying income tax instead of sucking off everyone else.

    Cut corporate taxes to zero. Cut unemployment benefits to zero.... Wheee, away we go. More enterprise, more work. People contributing, not bludging.
    And a modest proposal to go with that - the ones who can't get jobs can be used as Soylent Green. Or we could use them to fill in potholes. It'd be less cruel than having them starve to death which is what you seem to want to happen.

    By the way, why should the shop assistant or small-time plumber have to pay tax on income when a major retailer or plumbing corporation won't?

  20. #8595
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    It's all their fault for not having overseas branches to transfer profits to and import losses from. Apparently.
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  21. #8596
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    With a bit of luck we'd end up as rich as Pakistan.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  22. #8597
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Now, now Ian.You well know that Australia's governmental and tax arrangements work very well. This just about asking, actually compelling corporations to pay their fair share..... I know the concept is unpleasant for you but think about it for a while and consider Chris's PAYE example.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  23. #8598
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    You really are short of an argument tonight, but then I'm not surprised ... no content at all.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  24. #8599
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Had far too nice a day to get into this tonight. Have a good one tomorrow eh?
    Sitting in the tree house with the 'puter and a beer with the sound of gum trees in the wind in my ears. Sonds like surf as the wind swirls. About 11.30pm.

    (psst!. Nearly all the plumbers round here still work for cash, and their customers are happily part of the scam)

  25. #8600
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    We don't know how lucky we are....

  26. #8601
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    35 and a nasty northerly here. Good luck
    And a nod to Rob, it'll be worse down his way I think.

  27. #8602
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Merry Christmas Ian, Jeff, Sean, Chris and anyone one else who drops bye !

    21 C here and raining ...It's a big country !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  28. #8603
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Merry Christmas Ian, Jeff, Sean, Chris and anyone one else who drops bye !

    21 C here and raining ...It's a big country !
    Drizzling here. Merry xmas you mob.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  29. #8604
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Merry Christmas to all of you!
    "We have come to live in a society based on insults, on lies and on things that just aren't true. It creates an environment where deranged people feel empowered." -- Colin Powell, 10/30/18

  30. #8605
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Thank's Tom, and to you and yours.

  31. #8606
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  32. #8607
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    http://johnmenadue.com/blog/?p=1371
    John Menadue. Gina Rinehart and the age of entitlement.

    Posted on 12/03/2014 by John Menadue
    It is a bit rich for Gina Rinehart, with the enormous privileges she has inherited, to be telling us that we all need to work harder, cut taxes and curb wasteful government spending. Born on third base, as baseball enthusiasts would understand, does give a very jaundiced view of yourself and others.
    There is a quite dishonest campaign being run about the need to cut spending and reduce taxes. It looks as if we are being softened up to help the “deserving rich”.
    The facts are clear however that Australian taxes are very low by world standards. At 28% of GDP our taxes are well below the OECD average of 34% of GDP and much lower than the taxes in some northern European countries that have very successful economies and where taxes reach about 45% of GDP.
    It is our tax system that needs attention as Ken Henry keeps reminding us, including could I suggest a stiff inheritance tax that would bring some people back at least to second base!
    One of the reasons why we have such lower tax revenue is because of ‘tax expenditures’ as economists call them. These “tax expenditures” cost our tax revenue $115 billion in 2012-13. “Tax expenditures” are government revenue foregone as the result of differential or preferential deductions and treatment of particular sectors and taxpayers. Deductions for superannuation are the most blatant of these rip offs. Ross Gittins calls those that benefit so much the “super fat cats.”
    In a working paper in January this year the IMF showed that Australia has one of the highest “tax expenditures” in the world. . We topped the list of 16 countries with “tax expenditures” as a percentage of GDP at 8.5%. For big spenders like Italy, it was 8%; for the US 7.5%; UK 6%; France 4%; Canada 2%; Germany 1% and South Korea 1%.
    The Australian Parliamentary Library in its report on January 28 this year was headed “Australia tops the charts in tax deductions”
    In Australia the “tax expenditures” that put us at the top of world ranking are in key areas that benefit high income earners — superannuation, retirement incomes, health insurance, capital gains on short-term investment, housing (both owner occupied and investment), family trusts and the absence of inheritance taxes. These generous concessions have been designed to preserve the incomes of the wealthy and the middle class which both political parties have tried to keep onside. Such concessions have also favoured older Australians, to the disadvantage of the young, who have faced increases in university fees and more expensive housing and have been cajoled into private health insurance to pay for the healthcare of the aged.
    The IMF Working Paper highlighted the problems that high levels of “tax expenditures” cause.

    • They compromise fairness. The report says ‘Tax expenditures can be a poor way of pursuing equity objectives in a progressive tax system. For instance any policy that reduces taxable income will benefit most those in the highest marginal tax bracket and convey no benefit to those out of the tax system.’ It is surely unfair and unsustainable that if we are over 60 and regardless of the level of our income, we do not have to pay any tax on our superannuation income.
    • They can be inefficient and poorly targeted. ‘ … the current deduction of mortgage interest for instance may encourage leveraged housing finance’.
    • They are vulnerable to lobbying. ‘Special interest groups may find it easier to argue for tax breaks than for explicit spending support. Tax expenditures often bypass the scrutiny according to spending in the regular budget. … This lack of transparency may explain some of the appeal they hold … ‘

    In short, “tax expenditures” are unfair, inefficient and provide wonderful opportunities for rent seekers like the superannuation and the private health insurance industries in Australia to secretly lobby for concessions.
    If we reduced these tax expenditures by 50% we would be well on the way to meeting the $60 billion long-term structural budget deficit that we face.
    The problem is not in our spending or support for persons with handicaps or low incomes. The problem is in our taxes and particularly the system of “tax expenditures” that benefits the wealthy. But we don’t want to know about it. We complain about electricity prices and the carbon tax but they are small beer compared with the enormous rip offs by the wealthy in superannuation and aged pensions.
    The previous government made a few changes like means-testing the private health insurance rebate but it ignored the general thrust of the Henry Report for tax reform.
    Gina Rinehart and the deserving rich want to defend and expand middle-class concessions like “tax expenditures”. It is galling that people born on third base think that everyone else is wasteful and lazy.


    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  33. #8608
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    You'd believe anything, eh?

    BRW lists her net wealth at $14.02 billion in 2015 - and Forbes has it at US$12.3 billion
    You cant talk you read the Australian.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  34. #8609
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    It tells him what he want to hear, it's called reinforcement.... other opinions or analysis is all wrong by definition.

    See my tag line.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  35. #8610
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Thank you, I read both sides and weed out the crap and the sycophantic scribblings Oz mob. Egalitarian fairness is my aim and it's not a value Murdoch has much time for. He wants little America, I don't.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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