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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #8506
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Fail. It's just a tax subsidy .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  2. #8507
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Portland View Post
    Somebody has to pay , ultimately.
    We worked our butts off to get our kids the education they needed , and in the process payed a lot of tax , to keep the bludgers going.
    There is no such thing as free education , someone has to pay for it.
    Rob J.
    Who are these bludgers?
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  3. #8508
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Think your tax supports dole bludgers? Think again!
    http://www.glennmurray.com.au/think-...s-think-again/
    June 12, 2014 by glenn 127 Comments



    Joe Hockey lied again

    I know you may find it surprising, but smokin’ Joe lied again, last night:
    …the average working Australian, be they a cleaner, a plumber or a teacher, is working over one month full time each year just to pay for the welfare of another Australian.”
    This is an outright lie.
    Most Australians get more from the system than they put in!

    According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, unless you’re earning at least $1,174 per week, you’re taking more from the tax system than you’re contributing. Or, to use Joe’s terms, at least 60% of Australians are ‘leaners’!

    So how can the average Australian be paying for the welfare of other people, when they’re actually taking out more than they put in?
    And this is how the tax system SHOULD work

    People in the top 40% may ask:
    Why should I pay taxes to supplement the income of others?”
    Well, other than the fact that it’s the law, there are 2 answers to this question:

    1. You can afford to
    2. If you don’t, the whole system will collapse

    The top 40% can afford to subsidise the bottom 60%

    Income distribution graphs like the above tell only part of the story. When you look at thedistribution of wealth (not just income), it’s clear the top 40% can afford to subsidise the bottom 60%:

    If they don’t subsidise the less fortunate, the whole system will collapse

    It’s all well and good for high income earners to say “I earned it, why should I give it to someone else?” But what do you think will happen if 60% of the population doesn’t earn enough to cover basic needs? If they don’t earn enough to get an education or stay healthy?
    Workers will be unhappy, unhealthy and unproductive, and corporate profits will suffer. National education levels will drop, innovation will decline, and, as a result, our gross national income will take a huge hit. Crime, domestic violence, alcoholism, substance abuse, depression, self-harm, suicide and homelessness will increase. These outcomes will impact everyone, not just the poor.
    And obviously if things get bad enough, we’ll have a revolution on our hands…
    The top 40% only earn a lot because society allows them to earn it. It’s not their God-given right to accumulate wealth; society allows them to accumulate it. Capitalism isn’t a natural state, it’s a social construct. A system of rules condoned by society. If this system stops working for society, society will simply install another system.
    I think they also have a social obligation to support the less fortunate

    I believe we have a social contract in Australia. An unwritten agreement that we allow some people to get rich, but we provide a safety net for those who struggle to make ends meet. I think if high-income earners and the wealthy don’t adequately support lower income earners, they’re breaking that social contract. And any government that encourages that to happen is breaking the social contract too.
    In fact, I’d go a step further. I believe humans form societies purely for protection and community. That’s why we get together in the first place. So if we’re not supporting the less fortunate, and we’re undermining community, our society is failing.
    Share this:

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    Grateful Dead

  4. #8509
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    60% of Australians are bludgers ?... good luck with that Joe. It's a winning formula.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  5. #8510
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    It's good to see you and Joe have so much in common, a pity about Joe.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  6. #8511
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    At least he no longer gets to make a fool of himself as Treasurer along with whatshisname. Suits me.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  7. #8512
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The Saturday paper is worth a look again. Puts a different slant on Howards actions re East Timor.
    Much good stuff but no good news for Shorten.

    Stinker here, northerly with 44c. and severe winds and thunderstorms forecast. Not much water, just a sound and light show evidently.

  8. #8513
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    In my humble opinion the AFP have been interfered with way too much for political reasons, and their leadership has suffered accordingly for the same reasons. Reminds me of the various State Special Branches, now there's a case study in inefficiency, bias and featherbedding if there was ever one.

  9. #8514
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Speaking of budget chicanery, featherbedding and scare tactics, who do you think did the Hilton bombing?

  10. #8515
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    ... and you wonder why I like small government.
    If there's one part of government that wouldn't shrink it's the security services, governments of all persuasions like them too much.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  11. #8516
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    They know where all the bodies are buried Peter, selective leaks etc.

    But some politicians have always needed watching, there have been a few on the Labour side over the years.
    Grassby and a couple in the 1950's come to mind.
    As for convicted pollies,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...cted_of_crimes
    Last edited by skuthorp; 12-19-2015 at 12:38 AM.

  12. #8517
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Didn't you work on a commercial fishing boat? Did the owner (and by default, you?) benefit by a diesel fuel tax rebate? If you did, and are now so vociferously opposed to such "subsidies", do you propose to make a conscience payment to the ATO?
    Where did you get that idea what has it to do with my question?
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  13. #8518
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Interesting article by a retired Labor pollie

    “If a person’s sole source of income is the taxpayer, the person, as a condition of benefit, must have contraception. No contraception, no benefit.”

    So began my column in The Australian of December 30 last year. A minor tsunami ensued. In addition to 500, overwhelmingly favourable, comments on the newspaper’s website, there were more than 432,000 “shares”, which meant that a huge number of readers wanted others to read it. And they did — at least 1.5 million.


    Clearly, many Australians are seriously worried about intergenerational welfare: people who have children while on welfare are likelier to do so if they come from a family that has been on welfare.


    Some charming twitterer suggested I was making a bid for Australia’s “most repugnant person of 2014” because, they argued, “poor people … have human rights”.


    Others asked whether I had a parliamentary pension. Others defended me by saying, “if he does he certainly earns it”. And finishing with the comment “name me a politician who would even open the subject but let’s not play the man on this important discussion”.


    The Australian’s editorial of January 3 this year was very cautious — “We do not necessarily agree with Johns” — but, fortunately, in its inimitable style, it published the piece regardless.


    The original article was written in response to two stories.


    The first was news that a Cairns mother had murdered seven of her children and one other child. Inquiries revealed that the woman had her children to four different fathers.


    In the second story, a mother and two fathers were fighting a state government department in court over the long-term guardianship of four children. The mother had six children to the two fathers. The mother is on a disability pension and is in supported accommodation. All six children are in care.


    It was time to write the book. The book is now filled with case studies. Finding these was difficult. I applied to the Chief Magistrate of Queensland, who is responsible for the Children’s Court of Queensland, and to the head of the Queensland Attorney-General’s Department for permission to access files.


    Despite providing assurances of anonymity of those involved in Children’s Court *proceedings, permission failed to materialise. Only when I informed the department head that I would publish a statement detailing the eight-month delay did I receive a response, within hours, denying permission.


    The other reason to write the book was to answer the critics.


    The religious, Catholics especially, argued the dignity of the individual and the sanctity of life would be violated under a “no contraception, no dole” regime. But Catholic women in Australia are as likely as non-Catholics to use artificial contraception.
    Some Catholic women urge that “women practise sexual restraint and demand men do the same”.


    The slogan coined by English suffragette Christabel Pankhurst, “Votes for women and chastity for men”, is a lot more practical. It reminds women that the first was a breeze compared with the second. I would rather intervene to save women from irresponsible men than wait for men and women to give up on sex.


    Some on the Left were outraged because they believe that beneficiaries have rights. It is not a human right to raise a family at someone else’s expense. Welfare rights are not human rights; they are gifts of other taxpayers, granted under very specific conditions. The Left frets about overpopulation and argues for restricting childbirth in the name of saving the world from climate change in 100 years. It appears not to worry about the unsupported child to be born in nine months.

    My libertarian colleagues are squeamish about compulsion. They need to be reminded that it is not compulsory to take a benefit. Their hope, a world in which there are no benefits and charity alone steps in to help the unfortunate, is impractical. Stopping welfare may stop intergenerational welfare but it would not stop intergenerational poverty. The welfare state is here to stay. I am a supporter, but it has a downside. It helps to create the next generation of dependent citizens.

    When someone chooses to take a benefit, it is reasonable for taxpayers to place conditions on the benefit. The condition lasts only so long as the person is on the benefit. If someone is on an unemployment benefit they should be searching for work, not starting a family. If someone is on a study benefit, they should be studying, not starting a family. If someone is on a parenting payment they should be bringing up their family, not adding to it.


    I applied to a previous regime to find out the number of children born to women on benefits in Australia. The typical response was: “the department does not keep that data”. That, of course, was duckshoving. Having almost completed the book I had one last shot at finding out. Graciously, new Social Services Minister Christian Porter had the department provide an estimate.


    We now know there are perhaps as many as 60,000 children born each year to women who are on a benefit, which is almost 20 per cent of all Australian births. As eminent Australian economist Deborah Cobb-Clark, who has studied intergenerational welfare, remarked, “Will there be enough policies levers if it is not all about income or education?” I’m here to tell you that we’ve done all that, and it doesn’t work: middle-class professionals soak up most of the money.


    I have spoken to scores of police, judges, lawyers and social workers dealing with children in crisis. They are sick to death of the poseurs in this field; they want some early intervention that really works.


    We need to intervene in a more deliberate and immediate way to place women on a benefit into the situation they would otherwise be in if they were in a relationship and had a job and were planning for a family.


    Australia, this is a conversation worth having.
    What a load of tripe. You'll be demanding a policy of applied eugenics next.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  14. #8519
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Actually on a second reading I find the whole article to be so abhorrent that I am astonished that even you Ian would post it. I have three children to two different mothers. All lead very professional and fulfilling lives lives. The article is so right wing it borders on provoking Godwin's Law.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  15. #8520
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Misogynist eugenics from a malevolent Malthusian.
    We don't know how lucky we are....

  16. #8521
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I do agree with Ms Pankhurst however that men need to be called to account much more than they are for their actions.

    Re the 60,000, maybe they are Costello's 'one for the country' and we should look after them better than we do.

  17. #8522
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    There are people who sponge off society and some of them are extremely wealthy. I know a bloke in town who was a very successful business man till he had a nervous breakdown. He lost everything, family, home etc and now he lives on the street. Is he a bludger?
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  18. #8523
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Or a victim that deserves some care?
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  19. #8524
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    It's interesting the kind of stuff that surfaces here.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  20. #8525
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    The author is one of Labor's own. He's not so concerned with parenting lineage as with the concept of, I guess you could call it... bludging. His argument is simply that if you are a welfare dependant, you shouldn't be upping the ante
    Traditionally the wealth of the poor was their children. Children to look after you in your dotage. Factory and cannon fodder for the State, replacements for the large percentage that died. Children to look after you in your dotage. Increased education and relief from poverty, especially for women, is a proven method. But some will always take advantage, it happens in all levels of society.

  21. #8526
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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    What a load of tripe. You'll be demanding a policy of applied eugenics next.
    ''We need to intervene in a more deliberate and immediate way to place women on a benefit into the situation they would otherwise be in if they were in a relationship and had a job and were planning for a family.''

    It sure sounds that way.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  22. #8527
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    The author is one of Labor's own. He's not so concerned with parenting lineage as with the concept of, I guess you could call it... bludging. His argument is simply that if you are a welfare dependant, you shouldn't be upping the ante
    Nobody on welfare is upping the bloody ante and if you weren't so out of touch with what these so called bludgers were going through you wouldn't post such heartless cold blooded rubbish. "Parenting lineage"....true blood will out eh? Jesus christ!
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  23. #8528
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Don't let him wind you up Gary, he only post this crap to annoy.
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  24. #8529
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Don't let him wind you up Gary, he only post this crap to annoy.
    I'm okay Peter. I've been seeing similar stuff being posted by the same people that post right wing anti Muslim rubbish. And yet a major Australian media corporation can have a profit of $2.5 billion and not pay any income tax at all and that's okay!
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  25. #8530
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    But they're rich, the rich shouldn't have to pay tax, just the PAYE taxpayers .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  26. #8531
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    It's not a profit then, is it?
    Don't waste my time Ian.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  27. #8532
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    "If the tax laws internationally allow the profits to be made overseas... then don't blame companies for applying them. As I pointed out... the Americans have been the stumbling block wrt that."
    I suppose we are just doing what we are told…..again……….
    But the tone of Aussie tax law was set by Barwick all those years ago anyhow. Now there was a nasty bit of work.

  28. #8533
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Just keep giving it away to those who don't really need it and tell the rest it's dole bludgers that are ruining the country.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  29. #8534
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    ... there's that entitlement mentality again
    Strange how you only apply it to one sector of the population.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  30. #8535
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Feel free to show examples from other sectors.
    Corporate tax laws, an entitlement to shift tax offshore, to shuffle money so as to make a lose.

    Try that as a PAYE taxpayer.

    The tax laws of entitlement.
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  31. #8536
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    How about treating corporations like those receiving the age pension, if they have asset they can be ''deemed'' to be earning an income at current rate from it and taxed to that level. That would raise a pretty penny.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  32. #8537
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I see scams , tax shifting and avoidance as bad. Change the law to make corporations operating in Australia pay a stated fair tax rate. Deemed to be 25% across the board irrespective of deductions.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  33. #8538
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Way too much political interference for electoral or 'mates' reasons on both sides. Always has been.
    I suppose that's one of the problems where elections have to be won, and self interest has been promoted for years.

  34. #8539
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Lets see if that happens, here's a list.... tell me which ones will stop operating in Australia if they have to pay tax here.

    Top ten not paying tax

    1. Qantas Airways, earned $14.9 billion
    2. GHP 104 160 689 Pty Ltd, earned $11.731 billion
    3. ExxonMobil Australia, earned $9.617 billion
    4. Lend Lease Corporation, earned $7.683 billion
    5. Citic Resources, earned $5.051 billion
    6. Mitsubishi Development, earned $4.615 billion
    7. Glencore Investment, earned $4.612 billion
    8. Hope Downs Marketing, earned $4.445 billion
    9. Virgin Australia, earned $4.3 billion
    10. General Motors Australia, earned $4.138 billion





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  35. #8540
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-e...17-glpr80.html

    The ATO's published a report today showing more than a third of all large public and foreign companies in Australia paid no tax last year.
    Of 1539 corporate entities operating in Australia, 38 per cent did not pay tax.
    The Australian Taxation Office has stressed not paying tax doesn't necessarily mean tax avoidance.
    Advertisement
    Tax commissioner Chris Jordan says most large corporates, particularly domestic Australian companies, meet their tax obligations, but ASX data shows more than 20 per cent of companies make an accounting loss in any given year.


    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-e...#ixzz3utwFwfJC
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