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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #7841
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    That's hoi polloi...peasant.
    We don't know how lucky we are....

  2. #7842
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I think it's very unlikely that the ALP (not The Opposition, your Administration in Waiting) will open up like that. Kev's new rules makes a surge of new members most unattractive...
    We don't know how lucky we are....

  3. #7843
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by seanz View Post
    That's hoi polloi...peasant.
    That's me, I did 10 year course in Allied Peasantry, I'm good with a chip hoe and crow bar.

    '' hoi polloi''... I guess I've never written that down before.... thank dog Ian didn't pick it up. Hi Ian ....waving .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  4. #7844
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    ... thank dog Ian didn't pick it up.
    'Ian' or 'Donn'?

    Mike
    Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.

  5. #7845
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    That's me, I did 10 year course in Allied Peasantry, I'm good with a chip hoe and crow bar.

    '' hoi polloi''... I guess I've never written that down before.... thank dog Ian didn't pick it up. Hi Ian ....waving .
    Not even on a tax return?


    Bother it, I'm writing Hoi Polloi under "occupation" on my next Arrivals Card.
    We don't know how lucky we are....

  6. #7846
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Boat Fittings View Post
    'Ian' or 'Donn'?

    Mike
    Either....
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  7. #7847
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Anyone else notice how quiet this thread's become since Abbott was knifed? A measure of the man and his actions, and our national embarrassment at having his as our PM.

    As a former trainee RC priest and a self-confessed 'Christian" (which he's patently not), he'll no doubt be familiar with the biblical quotation, "By their fruits shall ye know them." That's how we did know him -- some of us even before he won the 2013 election, and almost all of us since.

    What a blessing this thread's been able to go quiet....

    Mike
    Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.

  8. #7848
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I note that the dirt has finally come out on the preamble to the dismissal, it's non-constitutional components and the collusion of Barwick, Mason, Fraser and the GG. in the affair.
    "John Kerr decided to remove Gough Whitlam in the week before the Dismissal and was in secret discussion about this with Malcolm Fraser.This is the most explosive revelation of a new book that throws in doubt the 40-year-old claim that the Governor-General acted alone.
    Monash University political scientist JennyHocking said new research showed Kerr acted with the foreknowledge and implied consent of the Queen, and with the knowledge of the Chief Justice of the High Court of Australia Sir Garfield Barwick​, High Court justice Sir Anthony Mason and the Leader of the Opposition to oust a democratically elected government."


    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...#ixzz3pdIyeR97



  9. #7849
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Always suspected, always denied .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  10. #7850
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Whaddaya know?

    Poker machine profits come from Sydney's poorest suburbs

    DateOctober 26, 2015 - 8:29AM
    James Robertson and Jacob Saulwick

    Surging gaming industry profits are coming from the pockets of gamblers in Sydney's most disadvantaged suburbs, who are betting billions more each year on the pokies, a Fairfax investigation has found.

    Fairfax has obtained state government data showing which of Sydney's 40 council areas lose the most money playing poker machines in registered clubs.

    Four of the five suburbs registering the fastest-growing and largest losses are ranked Sydney's top-five most disadvantaged areas by the Bureau of Statistics.

    Data obtained from the Office of Liquor, Gaming and Racing compared the amount lost in each suburb between two quarterly snapshots in 2011 and 2015.

    Across NSW the total amount gambled on the pokies each year has increased by more than $7 billion since 2011, based on projections from the quarterly figures. But more than one-third of this comes from just five disadvantaged parts of Sydney.

    "This is truly alarming, since these areas have only 10 per cent of the NSW population," said Francis Markham a gambling researcher at the Australian National University. "We now know that the concentration of gambling losses among the poorest is intensifying."

    The figures suggest annual profits – which are distinct from the amount wagered – have shot up by as much as $415 million over the past four years: $160 million of which comes from these five areas alone.

    Fairfield is Sydney's highest-losing area. Its gamblers are staking up to $1.2 billion a year more through poker machines than they were four years ago.

    It is also ranked as Sydney's most disadvantaged place by the ABS, a measure that takes into account residents' average incomes, education, family stability and english skills.

    The gaming industry makes more than $300 million in the area alone, a figure that has grown by up to $50 million, based on annual projections of quarterly data.

    Rounding out the top-five losing areas are Canterbury and Bankstown, Sydney's second and fourth most disadvantaged areas; Holroyd, its seventh; and Auburn, its fourth.

    (Due to the limits of government data, Auburn's figures also include losses incurred in Strathfield, an area with less than half its population but that ranks in the middle for Sydney suburbs on socioeconomic measures).

    Council Area Turnover Increase Profit Increase Disadvantage Rank
    Fairfield 1,349,281,796.76 54,469,328 1
    Auburn * 363,274,868.12 21,101,336 2
    Bankstown 473,326,147.12 30,120,820 4
    Canterbury 510,726,272.84 23,823,840 3
    Holroyd 620,896,299.56 33,830,920 7

    Based on data for the May quarter in 2011 and 2015. Annual projections are based on quarterly figures and may not account for seasonal variations in gambling. Auburn figures include losses incurred in the Strathfield LGA. Disadvantage rank based on the ABS SEIFA Index.

    Fairfax Media graphic
    Source: NSW Government

    A former top NSW gaming executive, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that growing patronage in these suburbs came after the industry increased the rate of payouts from poker machines.

    That had the effect of increasing time spent on poker machines, a tactic that paid off the most in the south-west, the source said.
    "In the 1980s it was sitting at 87 cents [per dollar gambled].

    "[Now it's at] 92 per cent…some machines are sitting on 95. Players get more entertainment, they stay on the machine longer and they get a good experience.

    "The lower socioeconomic people need an escape. They get a good experience from gaming…they tend to spend more time.
    "You've got big clubs where people go to meet. They see all this beautiful furniture they haven't got in their homes. It's an escape.
    "People that are lonely talk to the machines and they talk to [another gambler] who gets a pay[out] and that's the psychology. There's no denying that.
    "In the eastern suburbs you'll get larger individual bets but they'll lose less overall [because] they don't have the time."

    The source also attributed the increase in the south-west to large Asian populations and population growth.
    Fairfield's population has grown 1 to 1.5 per cent each year, according to the ABS.

    Gaming profits across NSW increased about 12.5 per cent over the four-year period. In the same time, the amount of taxes claimed by the state government grew only 8.7 per cent.

    Laws introduced in 2010 gave large discounts to pubs and clubs' poker machine profits.
    A 2013 report by the Auditor-General found that a scheme granting tax breaks to clubs who spend money on community facilities was poorly administered.

    Clubs have also been granted the right to move machines between venues more freely.
    On net, about 150 additional new machines came to the five highest-losing areas in NSW.
    About 400 left areas where pokie profits fell most sharply: central Sydney, lower-income Botany Bay and the blue-ribbon Waverley, Woollahra and Pittwater.

    The amounts wagered on the pokies by gamblers in these areas fell by nearly a combined $20 million.
    "It's no secret that clubs are incredibly popular in south-west and western Sydney, or that many clubs in this region offer fantastic dining and entertainment options," a spokeswoman for Clubs NSW said. "There is no evidence that the popularity of these clubs or the number of gaming machines leads to increased rates of problem gambling. "

    Only 0.3 per cent of people in south-western Sydney, according to a government survey, have a gambling problem, the lowest of any region in the state, the spokeswoman said.

    Annual estimates of gambling revenue derived from quarterly government figures may not account for seasonal variations in the way people gamble, the spokeswoman said.


    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/poker-mach...#ixzz3pdx8at6v
    Needless to say the problem isn't just 'problem gamblers' but also mining the least well off in society for as much of their paltry "disposable" income as possible. It's called plutonomy.
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  11. #7851
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Interestingly, in spite of labour legend, not hint of CIA involvement. Proves one thing though, you can't trust a politician, or a GG, or a lawyer………….

    But an ex director was appointed US ambassador immediately Gogh won, and withdrawn as soon as Frazer was securely in the seat. I'm still suspicious.

    BTW, came in from the garden for a cuppa and Anne turned on the tele………….. Horrors, George Pell talking about blasphemy and other such archaic matters.

  12. #7852
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I remember the Kennett years (I've even stopped trying to forget them, no use) and all the arguments against gambling that were ignored.
    Still no Ferris wheel...




    This could get nasty, and embarrassing. Ok it's definitely going to be embarrassing...


    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti...ectid=11534344


    By Claire Trevett


    Labour MP Kelvin Davis says the New Zealand detainees he met in Australia's Christmas Island detention centre told him are so frustrated they are thinking of rioting.
    Yesterday, after trying for days to get access to the 40 New Zealanders detained while appealing against their deportations, Mr Davis spent five hours with eight of them.
    "They reckon they're being driven to breaking point and they're considering rioting," he said late last night.
    "They said they were at the point they wanted to riot, just to draw attention to their plight."
    Mr Davis told them he did not condone violence "but they said, 'To hell with it, if nobody's going to listen.' Basically, there's a sense of hopelessness, despair and uncertainty. There's no sentence, there's no end date for them."
    They were suspicious of Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull's claim that if they returned to NZ, that would not affect their appeal.
    "Some said it's tempting but it's a trick. A couple were just, 'Stuff it, we're just going to fight it and you can come back and visit in three years' time if that's how long it takes'."
    Last edited by seanz; 10-26-2015 at 01:13 AM. Reason: a?
    We don't know how lucky we are....

  13. #7853
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Proves one thing though, you can't trust a politician, or a GG, or a lawyer…
    Ah well, we'd always known about politicians and lawyers, hadn't we? It was the GG's actions that were such a shock, and the cause of the furore.

    I'm still suspicious.
    Me too. The Yanks have done their dirtiest and bloodiest in the past -- and succeeded -- in changing other countries' governments when they didn't suit them.

    Mike
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  14. #7854
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    No, hadn't forgotten. Pilger is hardly unbiased on the subject, and of course such a matter IS bound to leak sooner or later. Nonetheless the US has form, well over 100 years of 'form' in these affairs.

  15. #7855
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Had an email from Rob (Portland) the other day. They both are well and preparing for a difficult fire season. HS is for sale. His shoulder is not good, but as good as it ever will be evidently.

  16. #7856
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I wish him Luck, this year is going to be hot and dry.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  17. #7857
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    4 corners, whistleblowers and public surveillance without accountability.

    Interesting, predictable, outrageous, unprincipled, illegal. But surprising? No.
    We've lost the Big Brother battle well and truly. A government, or opposition for that matter, that the agencies approve of probably will know what any prospective rival political organisation is about before most of their members do.
    And of course with our adoption of trackable technology we aid and abet the practices.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 10-26-2015 at 05:49 AM.

  18. #7858
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Of course, but I don't trust the sort of person who would join such an agency in the first place, let alone one who might be thought unprincipled enough to run one by whatever gov't appointed him/her. The saying re 'absolute power' applies.
    I strongly suspected, with good reason probably, some of my Young Labour colleagues. Later revelations showed that some branches had several plants in them. Office holders, demo organisers, some of the most radical speakers, agents provocateurs.. Mostly they didn't know about each other. Laughable really.

  19. #7859
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I note Brandis wasn't willing to discuss the uses of metadata in the light of that program. I'd be very surprised if he would.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  20. #7860
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I doubt he's understand the first question, but OTOH he is a QC and as such a weasel by definition.

  21. #7861
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    He's a weasel first and a QC second and he'll never live that interview down. He must have assumed something.......
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  22. #7862
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Well, it's the "most disadvantaged" areas doing the most money laundering eh? Gotta preserve the disadvantaged tag so that their welfare cheques keep rolling in.

    Welfare cards. Limited to food and Depends.
    Ian your prejudice is showing.
    The social contract that bestows authority — both moral and legal — on our political leaders is struck on the trust that they know what they are doing and will always act in our best interests:

  23. #7863
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    What prejudice would that be? One that you've invented?

    I came from a disadvantaged background. The way out of that was through personal endeavour and opportunity, not welfare dependency.
    So welfare = bludger eh?
    The social contract that bestows authority — both moral and legal — on our political leaders is struck on the trust that they know what they are doing and will always act in our best interests:

  24. #7864
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Ian your prejudice is showing.
    It's not even worth mentioning.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  25. #7865
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Your prejudice seems to be showing. I said no such thing. I'm a great supporter of welfare systems, but when you get to a situation, like in Oz, where more than 50% of people take more from government than they contribute, you've not got an appropriate welfare system. Have you?
    Yeah well that's economic rationalism for you, what can you expect when the private sector outsources all it's work overseas. There are people here on the forum who are keen to work and they are finding it tough finding it.
    I would be curious to know Ian what sectors of the community you believe should be eligible for welfare? How would you create the number of jobs needed without cutting the basic wage?
    Last edited by WX; 10-27-2015 at 01:41 AM.
    The social contract that bestows authority — both moral and legal — on our political leaders is struck on the trust that they know what they are doing and will always act in our best interests:

  26. #7866
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Fart.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  27. #7867
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    7.30, David Walsh vs the Farrell's.
    Tassy govt is in a bind after supping with the devil for years.
    Now a new devil want's a shot, but one who owns and pays for the state's best tourist asset.
    And he doesn't want or like pokies, for the same reasons that we discussed a few days ago here.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 10-27-2015 at 03:59 AM.

  28. #7868
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Perhaps you should ask why companies have outsourced work either here or overseas (all?.. c'mon, get real... that'd mean no private sector here). I ran an outsourcing business a while back, with 550 staff. It was successful because it was efficient. We did things better and cheaper... and took non-core work away, so that enterprises could concentrate on their core activities.

    One example... we had 250 people doing one activity that you would recognise if I named it. We were doing it with a 400% efficiency improvement over a government utility doing exactly the same activity. Yep... we were doing 4 to their 1... and you pay for that inefficiency time and time again.

    As for what sectors of the community should be eligible for welfare? None. Absolutely none. Why does a sector qualify? Welfare entitlements should be determined based on the individual's circumstances. I know a multi-millionaire who suffered a broken back before he was 18. He's never taken a cent of welfare. He built his own business. He refuses to use a wheelchair. He could have sat back in a wheelchair and collected welfare his whole life... but he chooses to contribute, not bludge.

    If anyone in this country wants to work and "are finding it tough finding it"... they are bludging. There's plenty of work and enterprise opportunity. It's a matter of whether they really want to work, or not. There's always an excuse for the bludgers. "Nothing local"... move. "Too old"... really? and so on.

    Welfare should be a safety net, not an everyday entitlement.

    That's about what I expected. Funny how the word entitlement is only dirty word when referring to people on welfare.
    The social contract that bestows authority — both moral and legal — on our political leaders is struck on the trust that they know what they are doing and will always act in our best interests:

  29. #7869
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Why do I think I've seen all this before…………… a serial argument………
    Every sector of the country feels entitled, from the tax dodging internationals to the work dodger skyving on accident benefits.
    Half the legal profession would be on the dole themselves if it were not so.

    As a couple of self funders we are not so concerned as Ian seem to be. But it would be nice if there wasn't such a large and wealthy legal industry involved in self interest and conflicts of interest.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 10-27-2015 at 04:18 AM.

  30. #7870
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The first thing to say is that the IQ curve is a bell curve and for every person with an IQ of 130 and a reasonable sense of their own ability there is someone with an IQ of 70 and a justifiable horror of the modern economy. Every job that requires a strong back as it's primary requirement has gone, done by machines owned by entrepreneurial small business operators smart enough to manage the repayments, repairs tax ....

    These are the people the "I pulled myself up from poverty by my own efforts" types always ignore , it's inconvenient, there's no money in it unless of course you set up a revolving door "job search service", then you can bleed the public teat for ever trying to find non existent jobs for blokes with strong backs.

    It's all be said before ....
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  31. #7871
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Of course Ian, it's necessary for you believe that. Carry on.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  32. #7872
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Integrity eh? Not many examples from our 'leaders' come to mind. A very rare beast and those touting it would be regarded with suspicion or as fools.

  33. #7873
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    The sawmills here have closed, the banana industry is dead in our area, the fruit processor closed.The heavy work is done by machine, not men with shovels. My son in law, doing his PHD in molecular biology labors for rent money, he's big, strong and very intelligent. The obvious employee.... why employ a dull lad when you can employ a smart one for the same money ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  34. #7874
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    So no answer. I thought not. Employers pick the best and those not up to their standard return to that so useful "pool" of unemployed.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  35. #7875
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Your opinion is worth what I paid for it but as per normal please keep on blaming the unemployed .

    Blaming the victim is quite popular with some people..... is sooooo easy.

    BTW, if you choose to reconsider, reevaluate the word "best".
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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