Oz Politics.

[gypsie]

We have well and truly missed the Pacific relationship ......

The way we are treating our neighbours is as an act of extraordinary arrogance.
Scomo and his pacific 'family' - are we even acquaintances now? Are our neighbours even prepared to look us in the eye? Could we have insulted them more than dismissing the very real existential threat they face?

He's taking a lot for granted.

[WX]

4AD92F4B-0D19-46B3-9255-5362E0F26989.jpg

[skuthorp]

A scared population votes conservative…………..

I note a call for a change in our military priorities, more concentration on defence in our own northern areas and less on cooperation with the US. The writer assumes that the US will be to an extent be replaced by China, given the proliferation of new Chinese medium range missiles, the vulnerability of US capital assets to such weaponry, and the likely time lag of at least a week as the US fights it's way into our area to begin the fight. Allowing China to take over those atolls, their loans and investments, and the ongoing establishment of friendly ports in the area like Cambodia, and Darwin have changed the game………..

[WX]

A scared population votes conservative…………..

I note a call for a change in our military priorities, more concentration on defence in our own northern areas and less on cooperation with the US. The writer assumes that the US will be to an extent be replaced by China, given the proliferation of new Chinese medium range missiles, the vulnerability of US capital assets to such weaponry, and the likely time lag of at least a week as the US fights it's way into our area to begin the fight. Allowing China to take over those atolls, their loans and investments, and the ongoing establishment of friendly ports in the area like Cambodia, and Darwin have changed the game………..

I have to admit I agree, it would be sad irony if we find ourselves in a 1942 situation in 2042.

[WX]

I’m not holding my breath but I am hoping that poor excuse for a government down in Canberra says no to Trump. Trump caused the problem with Iran, let him solve it.

[skuthorp]

I have no doubt at all that one day soon we will have to make a decision. And that our political setup is not in any condition to be open enough to allow the voters to take part in the decision. Some PM with far too much power will follow his prejudice, or his pocket, or his invisible friend.

It seems donald wants out of Afghanistan. Needs an electoral boost. The Iran dispute is all of donald's making as he hates anything a black man did in the white house. We should not encourage him, he can reinstate the previous agreement…..if Iran allows of course. An d then China is Iran's biggest oil customer…..

[skuthorp]

And I see that the government is backing away at speed from any commitment to Aboriginal recognition. Wyatt has been white anted by his own side. Predictable of course..

[skuthorp]

I'm just warming the engine. Wait till the light turns green.

I was looking through the thread and found this from Stevebaby…..
The light has turned green alright, don't let the rubes off the hook, or the Government get away with anything.

[Phil Y]

So I have the impression that London and Hong Kong have traditionally been the great financial centres of the world. Both are falling apart very quickly. Theoretically offices can move and life goes on, but in reality, a financial melt down? Waddya think?

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[skuthorp]

I've thought things might get sticky for a while. The world will be very fortunate to dodge a recession if your scenarion becomes a reality.
Honkers is the financial window into China for most of the worlds large companies because of it's comparative freedom, it's reliable commercial legal system and the least likelyhood of being banged up on spurious charges because someone in the Chinese hierarchy wants their fingers in your pie.
Short term at least China would loose in a takeover but I reckon that will not stop them. Logic does not apply.
If a unconditional Brexit goes through so, likely, is London.
Singapore is the obvious alternative at present, but Paris, Bonn, and the US will likely put their oar in. If donald gets another term that may rule the US out. I doubt Aus will get a look in.

[Phil Y]

Brussels seems to be where most of the City firms are relocating to, but a lot of people with careers, friends and family in London don't want to move to Brussels. Going to lose a lot of smart people.

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[The Bigfella]

So I have the impression that London and Hong Kong have traditionally been the great financial centres of the world. Both are falling apart very quickly. Theoretically offices can move and life goes on, but in reality, a financial melt down? Waddya think?

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Ever heard of some place called New York?

[skuthorp]

Of course, but will loose cannon donald make the US somewhat suspect as to reliability?

[WX]

5FB04050-07FA-4348-B193-DB9D4A6DB3A8.jpeg

[The Bigfella]

Some sensible advice to our lefties

Joe Hildebrand: A message to the lost tribes of the left wing

AUGUST 11, 2019 9:15AM


The Raheem Kassam visa dispute has developed into a free speech versus hate speech debate on the international stage.

This time last week I wrote a long, considered piece arguing that free speech, even that considered offensive or “hate speech”, should not be banned — with the obvious and explicit exception of any incitement to violence.

I put forward a number of reasons both principled and practical but chief among them was that allowing freedom of expression is an invaluable way of identifying extremist sentiments in society and hopefully, through reason and open discourse, turning those sentiments around.

The piece was written in response to calls to ban a right-wing UK activist from entering Australia and as it turned out, the reaction to the piece overwhelmingly proved its point.

The only irony is that the extremists it identified were all on the Left.

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Indeed, the reactions themselves were also crippled by their own internal irony. It was, as anyone who witnessed the response on social media will know, a volcanic eruption of abuse all exploding in the name of peace and tolerance.

Now before anyone shrieks hypocrisy — even if certain people struggle to tell the difference between free speech and abuse — I’m not going to complain or name and shame individuals. But to illustrate the point, here are just a few examples.

One respondent opened by calling me a “c**t” and then, in the very same tweet, bemoaned the lack of civil discourse in public debate.

Another began their first tweet with the words, “get f***ed Joe” and then in their second, complained that I wouldn’t have a polite discussion with them.

A third quipped: “Nothing good ever comes out of Dandenong” — a reference to my home town, one of the poorest, most multicultural and working-class Labor suburbs in the country. She was also, apparently, a Labor supporter.


Joe Hildebrand wrote an article about free speech and how right wing activists like Raheem Kassam should not be banned from Australia. And boy, did he cop it. Picture: Dan Kitwood/Getty Images Source: Getty Images

There were also the obligatory pictures of dead bodies in Nazi concentration camps — according to the new hard Left narrative, history’s most infamous book-burners were in fact diehard free speech advocates.

And of course the more vicious the abuse, the more voiceless and victimised the abusers claimed to be. They also appeared to be mostly white and university educated, both statistically unusual indicators of oppression.

You honestly could not make this stuff up and it is a sad reflection of where we are at that we don’t have to.

The reason for this is probably not so much a rise in extreme Left sentiment in the community but the advent of platforms that allow it to be spread so effortlessly and widely. In order to return to Russia to start the October Revolution, Vladimir Lenin had to travel 2000 miles over eight days by train. These days you only have to literally hit return.

To get an idea of just how extreme Lenin was, this was someone who described a fellow socialist as a “detestable centrist”, accepted the patronage of the despicable autocratic German Kaiser (who was using him as a pawn to sabotage the Russian front in World War I), and then returned to Russia to overthrow a revolution that had already taken place because the first revolution wasn’t extreme enough.

Russia was thus turned from a miserable imperialist slaughterhouse to a miserable socialist slaughterhouse. And so imagine my lack of surprise when one of my more vociferous anti-free speech Twitter critics proudly described themselves as “Left of Lenin”.

And they are far from alone in doing so.

Of course, I was a student socialist back in the day but at least my influence was limited to whoever I was chanting at on the steps of Parliament House or having a bucket bong with in my lounge room. And at least, unlike Lenin and many of my then-comrades, I had the good grace to actually be poor.

These days, as then, socialism is the domain of the disaffected, upper middle-class so-called intellectual. The only difference is that these days such insufferable twats can bang on about it 24 hours a day, creating the impression that it is a growing movement rather than just a spreading disease.

And of course because it is the domain of the over-privileged, the causes du jour have shifted from elevating the poor — or the “dictatorship of the proletariat” as Lenin so progressively proclaimed — to the niche obsessions of identity politics that have so dominated public debate.

Say what you like about Vlad, at least he wouldn’t have slagged off Dandenong.

But just like Vlad, they see anyone on the right as a fascist and even centrists as fascist enablers.

And while the brutally oppressed and impoverished people of 1917 Russia can be forgiven for embracing such an ideology, no one with even a passing understanding of history or complex thought could hold such a view in the information age. These are people less interested in backstories than backs against the wall.

‘At least, unlike Lenin (pictured) … I had the good grace to actually be poor,’ writes Joe Hildebrand. Source: News Limited

This brings us to the most profound response to left-wing extremism, which is the number of sensible, compassionate and thoughtful people who once considered themselves progressive but now feel abandoned and isolated, as the movement has been hijacked by hardcore ideologues. And little wonder.

As one former fellow traveller mournfully said: “ALP/Greens/lefty social democrat my entire life … and I am really starting to detest the left. De. Test.”

Another: “My upbringing and instinct too but increasingly embarrassed at the level of self-bull****, hysteria, hate/division and gesture politics in Left circles.”

Another: “I’m feeling you man. Their hysterical application of ‘fascism’, their antagonism to free speech, their often violent disruption of legitimate political meetings, their inability to see the contradiction between open borders and a welfare state and the hierarchy of victimhood.”

And another: “It’s becoming a mass exodus. But where to go? Not Lib that’s for sure. The politics of group identity and emotions over facts however, leave a lot of us feeling homeless … In a political sense.”

These are the lost tribes of the left. Needless to say, I know how they feel.

And of course not only do hardcore socialists and hand-wringing identity ideologues turn anyone with a brain or a sense of humour away from their cause, they also play into the hands of the right by making the whole Left side of politics look ridiculous. Donald Trump might appear crazy compared to a centrist but he looks sensible compared to a Stalinist.

[Phil Y]

Of course, but will loose cannon donald make the US somewhat suspect as to reliability?

Reliable or not, and probably not, if the US goes too far down the isolationist, high tarrif, buy US, MAGA path it will be less relevant as an economic hub anyway. Wall St will be a minor side show.

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[gypsie]

The center will hold...
Hildebrands optimism that the center 'is' is admirable.

Its a race to the right in the Libs. For some reason the only voters they seem to want to attract are One Nations.
The right wing brain washed who feel on the ascendant can only respond in one line insults, and their idea of the center is some kind of utopia of indentured labour and superyachts.

Meanwhile the offer of the extreme right has become so normalised through f-wits like Trump and Le Pen that to talk of health care is to be branded a screaming Stalinist and have pictures of Lenin posted.
On the other end everytime Trump is rolled out he's called a nazi (but maybe thats because he called nazi's good people.... still not helpful).

The Center is the common ground. Its the middle compromise that everyone doesn't like but everyone can live with. It's ultimately the manifestation of your fundamental respect for your fellow citizen, who you happen to disagree with.

It will hold?
It's f#@king gone. It needs to be rebuilt.

[WX]

Anyone who has been to Port Moresby knows it is a very dangerous place to be for a non indiginous. So why would anyone without means of support volunteer to live there?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-...resby/11430778

[The Bigfella]

Reliable or not, and probably not, if the US goes too far down the isolationist, high tarrif, buy US, MAGA path it will be less relevant as an economic hub anyway. Wall St will be a minor side show.

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Well, it won't be a minor sideshow, but Trump's antics won't help - meanwhile in Europe, the City relocations will mostly go to Frankfurt. Casablanca rates in the low 20's as a financial centre... but Brussels is in the 50's. Frankfurt.

[The Bigfella]

Ha ha. Saw this comment somewhere else. Immediately thought of you know who.....

You know how to tell someone is an atheist? No need, like a Vegan, they will let you know, repeatedly!

[WX]

Ha ha. Saw this comment somewhere else. Immediately thought of you know who.....

You know how to tell someone is an atheist? No need, like a Vegan, they will let you know, repeatedly!

Really? Well colour me surprised!

[skuthorp]

Big mess in NSW as the medievals attempt to fight off reality.
I personally am amazed that the catholic arch-anything has any credibility whatever.

Then there's Universities, Chinese students and security.
It's all about money. The government made it's choices, and they have much of the responsibility.
Something about lying down with dogs…………….

[skuthorp]

And on a very sad note, Tim Fisher, one time Nationals leader and Deputy PM is very ill.

One of the good ones.

[WX]

Look at these meals. Just kill me now.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-...-says/11432866

[WX]

Apparently Australians are sending socks to Alan Jones.
http://situationtheatre.com/news-fus...1McCA7KHAmOwnQ

[Hallam]

Pell has lost the appeal and will be spending a few more years in prison.

[WX]

Pell has lost the appeal and will be spending a few more years in prison.

Be interesting to see is Scomo follows though and now strips him of the Order of Australia... or finds a reason not too.

[gypsie]

Pell has lost the appeal and will be spending a few more years in prison.

Wow!
Interesting.

What was his angle at the appeal - i understand it would have been a technical point of law - as opposed to new evidence.

[gypsie]

How does that work;
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...s-freedom-bill

“The laws will protect people from being discriminated against, but will not give them a licence to discriminate against other people.”

while simultaneously;

Porter has previously.... [suggested] it would prevent a repeat of the high profile Israel Folau sacking.

And then there's the ever so low bar of 'Expression';

Anglican archbishop of Sydney, Glenn Davies, on Tuesday added his voice to the call for the laws to go beyond protection from discrimination, saying there needed to be rights for religions to “express ourselves”.
Davies said an example would be a right for an Anglican school to sack teachers who did not “adhere to the Anglican ethos”.

Couldn't he have said simply the right to 'not hire' people who don't adhere to the ethos.....? I wonder does he plan to hire gay teachers just so he can fire them and punish them for being gay?

[Phil Y]

Anyone who has been to Port Moresby knows it is a very dangerous place to be for a non indiginous. So why would anyone without means of support volunteer to live there?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-...resby/11430778

I think if you were on Manus for long enough with no hope of anything but more of the same, you'd eventually give anything a go.

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[gypsie]

I think if you were on Manus for long enough with no hope of anything but more of the same, you'd eventually give anything a go.

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Yep


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[WX]

Yep


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Have you been there?

[gypsie]

No - just agreeing that Port M could be the lesser of two evils.

[WX]

https://10daily.com.au/news/v190821u...rdict-20190821

[WX]

No - just agreeing that Port M could be the lesser of two evils.

I don't agree with detention camps but I would look at this regarding crime:
https://www.numbeo.com/crime/in/Port-Moresby