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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #18831
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Turnbull..... https://theaimn.com/turnbull-must-ur...i-citizenship/
    Turnbull must urgently clarify whether or not he is entitled to Israeli citizenship

    • November 8, 2017


    The S44 citizenship saga has thrown up possible queries concerning the citizenship status of Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull.
    The first is this interview with the Times of Israel in September 2015, recorded when Turnbull ousted former Prime Minister Tony Abbott and took over the top job:

    My mother always used to say that her mother’s family was Jewish, he (Turnbull) told the Australian Jewish News two years ago. Judaism is passed from generation to generation on the mother’s side, so if his mother was in fact Jewish, so is Turnbull.
    The second is a piece from the Australian Jewish News, August 2013, headlined “Menachem Mandel Turnbull?” in which the same statement is made by Turnbull about his mother, Coral Lansbury.
    If Turnbull is Jewish, he is, as is every Jew in the world with the exception of criminals and terrorists, entitled to Israeli citizenship under the 1950 Law of Return.
    How does this bring into question Turnbull’s legitimacy as an MP?
    Section 44(i) of Australia’s Constitution disqualifies someone from office if that person:
    …is under any acknowledgment of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or a citizen of a foreign power… (emphasis mine)
    We know from recent events that:
    The High Court’s reading of section 44 is strict and unsurprising. It means that a dual national is barred from Parliament even where they were born in Australia, are ignorant of their other citizenship and have never attempted to use the rights or privileges of another country. A person can even be disqualified where they become a dual national later in life due to legal changes in another country.
    Obviously his citizenship status and S44 were far from Turnbull’s mind in 2013 and 2015, when the interviews were recorded. Yet he was, at the beginning of his political career, like any other aspiring MP whose background carries the possibility of dual citizenship or entitlement to that citizenship, required to establish his status before standing for parliament. His failure to do this places his legitimacy as an MP and Prime Minister in doubt.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  2. #18832
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I'm not sure that would stand, but the HC is the arbiter of these matters.
    Hey ho for the new year…………….

  3. #18833
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    ''Eligible for British citizenship'' is the reason Lambe gave for resigning and apparently Malcolm is eligible for Israeli citizenship. I wonder if the gentleman in WA will submit his name ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  4. #18834
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Eighty percent participation
    61% to 38% for yes. Only 17 electorates voted no. Four million voted no.

    Dancing in the street in Melbourne evidently.

  5. #18835
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Yes !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  6. #18836
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    ''Eligible for British citizenship'' is the reason Lambe gave for resigning and apparently Malcolm is eligible for Israeli citizenship. I wonder if the gentleman in WA will submit his name ?
    Lambie isn't the sharpest shovel in the shed. She may have said that, however, the reason she had to resign is that she had dual citizenship.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  7. #18837
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Yes !
    A fine result.

    Now, where's that idiot professor who said that the No vote would win?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  8. #18838
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Who'd have thought that NSW would be the bastion of conservatism?

    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  9. #18839
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Yes, quite surprising .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  10. #18840
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    ^ for sure.
    I must admit i raised an eyebrow.

    I also thought the margin would be much greater all round. I expected more in the high 60's even early 70's for YES.

    But, it clearly shows the (righteous) silent majority are without question, a minority.

    Anyway its in, lets watch the Lib's f#&k up the clearest mandate of all time.
    “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge” - Charles Darwin (1809–1882)

    Nutshell Pram Build pictures ; https://photos.app.goo.gl/1GdBcckcgBAWsbVg1

  11. #18841
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    An excellent result.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  12. #18842
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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    An excellent result.
    Yep, and about time! Lets hope they can get a decent law through parliment quickly.

  13. #18843
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  14. #18844
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Now that is good. Really, really good.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  15. #18845
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Very good!
    “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge” - Charles Darwin (1809–1882)

    Nutshell Pram Build pictures ; https://photos.app.goo.gl/1GdBcckcgBAWsbVg1

  16. #18846
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Um, what happens to the Aussie flag after Brexit, especially if Scotland and Ireland decide to remain?
    No union flag any longer, just

  17. #18847
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Red Cross or the Crusader's badge.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  18. #18848
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Um, what happens to the Aussie flag after Brexit, especially if Scotland and Ireland decide to remain?
    No union flag any longer, just
    Maybe we could have a postal vote on it?
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  19. #18849
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    WHAT a good idea Gary. I wonder it hadn't been thought of before. That way the Pollies cou;d go part time, have to get another job to make ends meet and just come to Canberra once a month to see what the country had decided. Hang on…..for that matter why………….

  20. #18850
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Very Californian.... citizen's initiated referenda . It can have some strange results.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  21. #18851
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    It would address my concerns about lack of political leadership if only by unequivocal tacit acknowledgement of it. Then we could legitimately dispense with so much of our political infrastructure, and slip mindlessly into anarchy. It's happening anyway so why not?

    Sent from my super secure secret squirrel device
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.
    Paperback E-book

  22. #18852
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Ok, drop the union jack, move the stars around a bit and..........




    There you have it! The flag flown at the birth of Australia's democracy. The only true one of two Australian flags the other of couse:




    ......and those that object to the above flags are welcome to fly this one. I can see it now waving from the flag poles of a select few houses around the Northern Beaches of Sydney, Gina and Rupert's houses and of course from atop of the IPA building in Collins St. There would probably be one flown at Scotch Collage as well.

    Last edited by Hallam; 11-15-2017 at 04:58 AM.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  23. #18853
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    ''Eligible for British citizenship'' is the reason Lambe gave for resigning and apparently Malcolm is eligible for Israeli citizenship. I wonder if the gentleman in WA will submit his name ?
    I think they misunderstand the constitution.

  24. #18854
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    There seems to be plenty of that in the House and the Senate.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  25. #18855
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I see a couple of subs for Nash have been ruled out and it's 'unclear' who will take the position. And the Nat's have already lost one to a Lib. Probably Jim Molan, very militant RW Lib.

    But then at this stage the whole shooting match is 'unclear' and the only consensus is that it's not over yet. If the senate passes the SS marriage legislation will the trog's assert that the vote is unsafe because no one is certain who can be there to vote?
    Last edited by skuthorp; 11-15-2017 at 03:06 PM.

  26. #18856
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    CAROLINE OVERINGTON gets it right:


    Same-sex marriage: Gay Australia should thank Malcolm Turnbull

    Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull was all smiles yesterday when he spoke about the postal vote result with Senator Mathias Cormann at Parliament House in Canberra. Picture: Gary Ramage

    Okay, so why is nobody saying the obvious this morning? The success of the same-sex marriage survey is a giant victory for Malcolm Turnbull.

    He has actually won one. His opponents, left and right, don’t like it, but it’s true.

    Remember: the idea that Australia should maybe have a national survey on same-sex marriage has, over the past year, been mocked and derided by pretty much everyone.

    Except Turnbull. He stuck at it.

    The reason you’re now seeing pure joy on the faces of young and the old is because Turnbull managed to get it done.

    The reason you’re seeing the Empire State building up in rainbow lights is also because of Turnbull’s determination to find a solution.

    Remember all the gloom about what a terrible, hateful thing it would be? And yet it ended in a giant party, with the numbers so large in Sydney they had to close Oxford Street, with people weeping and cheering and doing the Locomotion.

    He has actually won one!

    And yet there is no narrative around what a triumph this is for him.

    Why not? I have some theories:

    Turnbull promised to take the same-sex issue to the public, and he faced raging opposition at every turn, from his own party, and from the other side.

    Tony Abbott rose up like ghost of the party-poopers-past and threatened merry hell with the process, saying it wasn’t about marriage, it was about political correctness and so on, all designed to torpedo the thing.

    Abbott has an honestly held belief, a religious conviction, that marriage is between a man and a woman, and that’s fair enough. But let’s not pretend that he also doesn’t enjoy playing havoc with Turnbull’s prime ministership.

    But it wasn’t only the Right that Turnbull had to worry about.

    The Marriage Equality people — those guys and gals busy partying in the park yesterday — took the survey all the way to the High Court. They actually spent millions trying to bring down the very thing that has bought such joy to the nation.

    And then there was the ALP.

    Labor has actually been the worst on this issue. Hypocrites of the highest order, they could have legislated for same-sex marriage when they were in office but didn’t, because too many of them were too frightened to lose their seats.

    Better to have a CommCar than to give anyone their human rights.

    Then, in Opposition, they decided they were all for it, always handy when you no longer actually have any power.

    Then, when Turnbull — a staunch supporter of same-sex marriage pretty much all his life — tried to find a tricky way through the mess, Shorten did all he could to kybosh it.

    People would die, they said.

    And where was Shorten yesterday?

    Cheering the victory! Doing a polka on the stage at the Melbourne rally, singing about love, sweet love.

    Did he give any credit to Turnbull, while announcing: “Today we celebrate, tomorrow we legislate!’’? No.

    Opposition leader Bill Shorten celebrates in Melbourne yesterday. Picture: Ted McDonnell

    And yet it was Turnbull who soldiered on, saying the public had a right to have their say, convinced in his heart that the ordinary Australian would not let him down.

    And he was right.

    Now let’s try turning the tables.

    Imagine if the Labor Party had taken the same-sex vote to the people, and the Coalition, along with the anti-same-sex marriage people, had taken the matter to the High Court — and then tried to celebrate the victory?

    You reckon they’d be no narrative about what monstrous hypocrites they are?

    I feel desperately for Penny Wong. You can see how hard she’s worked behind the scenes to drag her party into the 21st century, but she owes Turnbull, too.

    You can’t stand there thanking the people of Australia with tears in your eyes and pride in your heart without acknowledging who gave Australia the opportunity to have their say.

    And now we don’t have a situation where the Prime Minister and his party is trying to force legislation through the parliament without knowing what the public thinks.

    We know exactly what the public thinks.

    Which in turn means that even those in the Liberal Party who were voting no — like, say Mattias Cormann –— now have to suck it up and say, okay, you got me.

    It’s now a yes from me.

    Whatever floats your boat, gay Australia. You want to get married and make like Al Bundy on the couch every night? Knock yourselves out.

    Turnbull gave the Australian people, from the rainforest to the sea a rare and special opportunity to do a good thing by their fellow Australians. To speak up. To take a stand. And they did. They said you betcha. And it feels marvellous, because doing a good deed always does.

    Australians have delivered marriage equality, but they’ve only be able to do so because of Malcolm Turnbull. That may not suit the narrative of those who seek his demise, but it’s true. Well played, Prime Minister. You’ve just won one of the key civil rights battles of the ages. Good for you.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  27. #18857
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    CAROLINE OVERINGTON gets it right:


    Same-sex marriage: Gay Australia should thank Malcolm Turnbull

    Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull was all smiles yesterday when he spoke about the postal vote result with Senator Mathias Cormann at Parliament House in Canberra. Picture: Gary Ramage

    Okay, so why is nobody saying the obvious this morning? The success of the same-sex marriage survey is a giant victory for Malcolm Turnbull.

    He has actually won one. His opponents, left and right, don’t like it, but it’s true.

    Remember: the idea that Australia should maybe have a national survey on same-sex marriage has, over the past year, been mocked and derided by pretty much everyone.

    Except Turnbull. He stuck at it.

    The reason you’re now seeing pure joy on the faces of young and the old is because Turnbull managed to get it done.

    The reason you’re seeing the Empire State building up in rainbow lights is also because of Turnbull’s determination to find a solution.

    Remember all the gloom about what a terrible, hateful thing it would be? And yet it ended in a giant party, with the numbers so large in Sydney they had to close Oxford Street, with people weeping and cheering and doing the Locomotion.

    He has actually won one!

    And yet there is no narrative around what a triumph this is for him. (Incorrect!)

    Why not? I have some theories:

    Turnbull promised to take the same-sex issue to the public, and he faced raging opposition at every turn, from his own party, and from the other side.

    Tony Abbott rose up like ghost of the party-poopers-past and threatened merry hell with the process, saying it wasn’t about marriage, it was about political correctness and so on, all designed to torpedo the thing.

    Abbott has an honestly held belief, a religious conviction, that marriage is between a man and a woman, and that’s fair enough. But let’s not pretend that he also doesn’t enjoy playing havoc with Turnbull’s prime ministership.

    But it wasn’t only the Right that Turnbull had to worry about.

    The Marriage Equality people — those guys and gals busy partying in the park yesterday — took the survey all the way to the High Court. They actually spent millions trying to bring down the very thing that has bought such joy to the nation.

    And then there was the ALP.

    Labor has actually been the worst on this issue. Hypocrites of the highest order, they could have legislated for same-sex marriage when they were in office but didn’t, because too many of them were too frightened to lose their seats.

    Better to have a CommCar than to give anyone their human rights.

    Then, in Opposition, they decided they were all for it, always handy when you no longer actually have any power.

    Then, when Turnbull — a staunch supporter of same-sex marriage pretty much all his life — tried to find a tricky way through the mess, Shorten did all he could to kybosh it.

    People would die, they said.

    And where was Shorten yesterday?

    Cheering the victory! Doing a polka on the stage at the Melbourne rally, singing about love, sweet love.

    Did he give any credit to Turnbull, while announcing: “Today we celebrate, tomorrow we legislate!’’? No.

    Opposition leader Bill Shorten celebrates in Melbourne yesterday. Picture: Ted McDonnell

    And yet it was Turnbull who soldiered on, saying the public had a right to have their say, convinced in his heart that the ordinary Australian would not let him down.

    And he was right.

    Now let’s try turning the tables.

    Imagine if the Labor Party had taken the same-sex vote to the people, and the Coalition, along with the anti-same-sex marriage people, had taken the matter to the High Court — and then tried to celebrate the victory?

    You reckon they’d be no narrative about what monstrous hypocrites they are?

    I feel desperately for Penny Wong. You can see how hard she’s worked behind the scenes to drag her party into the 21st century, but she owes Turnbull, too.

    You can’t stand there thanking the people of Australia with tears in your eyes and pride in your heart without acknowledging who gave Australia the opportunity to have their say.

    And now we don’t have a situation where the Prime Minister and his party is trying to force legislation through the parliament without knowing what the public thinks.

    We know exactly what the public thinks.

    Which in turn means that even those in the Liberal Party who were voting no — like, say Mattias Cormann –— now have to suck it up and say, okay, you got me.

    It’s now a yes from me.

    Whatever floats your boat, gay Australia. You want to get married and make like Al Bundy on the couch every night? Knock yourselves out.

    Turnbull gave the Australian people, from the rainforest to the sea a rare and special opportunity to do a good thing by their fellow Australians. To speak up. To take a stand. And they did. They said you betcha. And it feels marvellous, because doing a good deed always does.

    Australians have delivered marriage equality, but they’ve only be able to do so because of Malcolm Turnbull. That may not suit the narrative of those who seek his demise, but it’s true. Well played, Prime Minister. You’ve just won one of the key civil rights battles of the ages. Good for you.

    A win for justice and a win for Malcolm Turnbull:
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...13-gzkkcs.html



    Yes vote is an ugly win for Turnbull, but it’s still a win. The Yes vote is a victory for the troubled leadership of Malcolm Turnbull, and may finally give him a legacy to leave behind.

    https://www.crikey.com.au/2017/11/15...-for-turnbull/

    Same-sex marriage vote: Malcolm Turnbull set for a win

    Last edited by Hallam; 11-15-2017 at 08:12 PM.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  28. #18858
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    A win for justice and a win for Malcolm Turnbull:
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...13-gzkkcs.html



    Yes vote is an ugly win for Turnbull, but it’s still a win. The Yes vote is a victory for the troubled leadership of Malcolm Turnbull, and may finally give him a legacy to leave behind.

    https://www.crikey.com.au/2017/11/15...-for-turnbull/

    Same-sex marriage vote: Malcolm Turnbull set for a win

    Nice to see you standing up for him
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  29. #18859
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    With Malcom's little win, I'm now waiting to see what move the diehards will make to bring him back down to size..........maybe it's just beginning in the Senate now.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  30. #18860
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    This didn't take long did it. He's so predictable. Andrew Bolt has just grabbed his racquet for a serve he hopes will be an ace.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opi...c8e4cffd1c4d71

    Andrew Bolt: Hopelessly divided Liberals face split or decline.


    THE Liberal party no longer has a reason to be and faces a split or permanent decline.

    The rot is clearest with the Turnbull Government. The Liberals have been mostly successful in their 72 years, but what do they still stand for in an age when we obsess about identity?and

    And the Sky New video clip Bolt chose to blatantly state his agenda makes one wonder who it is that thinks they are born to rule.......

    It's a fair bet the next serve will be heard by tuning into Alan Jones program tomorrow.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  31. #18861
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I suppose there's the probability the IPA might jump in with a tactic in the very near future. They have been at it for a while, a good example is this one from September:

    http://ipa.org.au/publications-ipa/i...al-blasphemies
    Malcolm Turnbull’s Thoroughly Liberal Blasphemies


    What’s been obvious to anyone outside the Canberra bubble for the last six months might finally have dawned upon Malcolm Turnbull and his ministers. The Coalition can win the next federal election – if it wants to. And of course the issue it can win on is cheap and reliable electricity.
    The public like renewable energy, but only in theory. And the public are not dumb. They know this country’s near-obsession with renewable energy is not only forcing Australia’s households to pay among the highest prices in the world for their electricity, it is also de-industrialising the economy.

    ......and what do you know.......they like to use a bit of red ink too

    The IPA 's links in the article are a neat outline of their agenda. I noticed in the video Tony Abbot doesnt fail to mention what he owes his voters and party members who have supported him. What he fails to mention is the debt he owes those whose interests are served by the IPA.
    Last edited by Hallam; 11-16-2017 at 01:15 AM.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  32. #18862
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    And one more thing that occurs to me is how the IPA article above pronounces WHAT THE PUBLIC THINKS! Another betrayel of their political strategy. That is what the IPA WANTS THE PUBLIC TO THINK. It's business after all. And what was it that Alexandre Dumas said?
    “In business, sir, one has no friends, only correspondents. ”



    .........It would seem the greater threat to Malcom Turnbull comes from within the ranks of his own party.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  33. #18863
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Follow the money, as ever excellent advice .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  34. #18864
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    An interesting little AGW story from NZ, shorter winters . https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...over-100-years
    It's certainly not as cold as the place my mother grew up in.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/...iwa-data-shows
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  35. #18865
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    44,852

    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Who's a thunk it…. It seems that Lambie's successors on the ballot are ineligible, or unable, or possibly unwilling to take up her seat in the senate which means now she has renounced her Brit citizenship she can maybe have it back………………..

    Curiouser and curiouser, and curiouser still!

    If you wrote it as fiction no publisher would touch it!


    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...riage-equality

    Hmmm…………...

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