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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #24851
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Going solar is not that expensive, even if you don't do it yourself. If you do it yourself your biggest cost will be the batteries but you can get 5 kwh ex Tesla car battery packs from the US for around $1,800 landed here. Panels are dirt cheap on Ebay and ex grid panels are even cheaper.
    I don't know what the average quarterly grid power bill is these day but I reckon a 5kwh system would pay for itself in two years.
    Blaming the consumer for global warming is a bit like blaming a woman for being raped.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  2. #24852
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    Gary, I had the guys out to look at putting solar on my roof. Two different companies told me I'd have to cut down most of my trees. That would cost in excess of $10k, just for the tree destruction...

    OK, so I asked one of them, how common is it for people to cut down trees to install solar? "Very," he answered. I wonder how many trees are sacrificed for the environment every day in Australia?
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

  3. #24853
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    John, I suggest an arborist might be able to prune trees to accomodate solar panels. Having said that, onen anecdote about needing to remove trees does not a case against solar power make.

    I'm still at a loss as to why you think not acting to reduce our emissions and making money doing so is a bad thing.

    Every argument against strong action is based upon the fallacious notion doing so will cost the Australian economy, and push up power prices. We all know that after the introduction of the carbon tax there was a slight rise in power prices, coupled with a significant drop (5% over the life of the tax) in our emissions, but when the Coalition was elected and Abbott repealed the tax power prices spiked within the space of a few months. My own bills were raised by 150% within 6 months of the Coalition taking office. And our emissions continue to rise, whilst just about every single major player in the energy market is asking government to price carbon, either with a tax, or cap and trade system.

    FWIW, as a landscape architect with a 30 year career, I've been directly responsible for well over one million trees being planted. That's a least 22,000 tonnes of abatement right there.
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  4. #24854
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    Gawd....


    https://www.technocracy.news/about/

    The website has a store to selling tomes by Wood that espouse conspiracy theory crap. Anyone who takes anything published on this website seriously is a cretinous moron.

    Greenpeace's retort to the ex-Greenpeace idiot:


    https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/...ent-on-patric/
    Are you really so gullible? I absolutely, positively knew that you would attack the man, rather than anything he'd stated. Bingo.
    I point blank refuse to C&P the rubbish contained in quotes in your response. Three Mile Island was not a meltdown - as they claim. It was a partial meltdown.... which was halted. The people in the vicinity of TMI received an additional radiation dose equivalent to about 1% of the background radiation level. The dose was less than 1/6th that of an x-ray.

    Don't mind the facts... go back to attacking people - it's the standard tactic of the left.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  5. #24855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    John, I suggest an arborist might be able to prune trees to accomodate solar panels. Having said that, onen anecdote about needing to remove trees does not a case against solar power make.

    I'm still at a loss as to why you think not acting to reduce our emissions and making money doing so is a bad thing.

    Every argument against strong action is based upon the fallacious notion doing so will cost the Australian economy, and push up power prices. We all know that after the introduction of the carbon tax there was a slight rise in power prices, coupled with a significant drop (5% over the life of the tax) in our emissions, but when the Coalition was elected and Abbott repealed the tax power prices spiked within the space of a few months. My own bills were raised by 150% within 6 months of the Coalition taking office. And our emissions continue to rise, whilst just about every single major player in the energy market is asking government to price carbon, either with a tax, or cap and trade system.

    FWIW, as a landscape architect with a 30 year career, I've been directly responsible for well over one million trees being planted. That's a least 22,000 tonnes of abatement right there.
    I've bolded your last paragraph. It's rubbish. YOU have not been directly responsible for well over one million trees being planted (and, btw, how many removed?). Your clients had that direct responsibility. Not you.

    You can try and double count their successes if you wish, but it won't wash.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  6. #24856
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    John, I suggest an arborist might be able to prune trees to accomodate solar panels. Having said that, onen anecdote about needing to remove trees does not a case against solar power make.
    I didn't think it did make any general case, I thought it ironic, and I want solar. But what it does illustrate is the financial motive for getting solar. People aren't generally putting solar on their roofs to save the world, they're doing it to save money. Now, we can abominate their materialist shallowness, or we can note the fact and learn something. I'm doing the latter. I said before that consumerism is not a bug, it's a feature, of our nutso debt-based financial system. If we care about waste, and I do, and we look into root causes as opposed to lamenting human nature and feeling superior to others, we could actually address the real problem. But that would take mental energy and independence of thought, and we wouldn't be able to join in trendy global campaigns by super wealthy people coupled with ideologues. (I mean, Al Gore, for goodness sake). Indeed, we would find ourselves defamed by the them, and ordinary people would join in the defamation without even being paid to do so...

    The moment a scientist expresses any scepticism about the packaged up scare campaign being run by the IPCC or other globalists, he is defamed as a spokesman for coal or some such. Let's be real, most scientists will tell you they dare not say anything contrary to the current trendy views, they feel that it would be career threatening. The money and power is all on the side of the alarmists. So if you're running with the crowd, be clear about that, and please don't talk like the problem is the rich and powerful. Plenty of the rich and powerful are pushing the alarmist thing for all it's worth. Bucking it is the act of a very brave man. And no, I'm not one of them, I'm saying nothing against it. My only point here is to try and understand what the electorate just said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    I'm still at a loss as to why you think not acting to reduce our emissions and making money doing so is a bad thing.
    Well, as I said, I don't care if Labor an election and disrupt our economy moving us to renewables. It probably will actually stimulate some growth and give us an international competitive advantage. I was very irritated that we permitted GMO here, it gave up a great opportunity. But big money won out, again, as it will with most things. I care about other things altogether, and nobody wants to do anything serious about any of them...

    Example: Marriage breakdown is a catastrophe for children. Within the last two years, The West Australian had a front page headline declaring that an academic study had just discovered that 93% (I think that was the number) of the inmates in our juvenile justice system here in WA had come from broken homes. Well, duh! Raise this with people and they go into automaton mode, "you want people staying in unhappy marriages/facing domestic violence/suffering from sexual incompatibility, blah blah". It's knee-jerk, none of it is original actual thought, it's literally sound bite cliches served up by schools and the media and absorbed by osmosis until people can repeat it in their sleep. So we continue down this disastrous path, the social problems pile up, and we are surprised by academics discovering what absolutely everybody knew for several thousand years before, say, 1960. A cop told me that they spend 80% or more of their time dealing with "domestics." Nearly all of it is not households with a married couple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    Every argument against strong action is based upon the fallacious notion doing so will cost the Australian economy, and push up power prices. We all know that after the introduction of the carbon tax there was a slight rise in power prices, coupled with a significant drop (5% over the life of the tax) in our emissions, but when the Coalition was elected and Abbott repealed the tax power prices spiked within the space of a few months. My own bills were raised by 150% within 6 months of the Coalition taking office. And our emissions continue to rise, whilst just about every single major player in the energy market is asking government to price carbon, either with a tax, or cap and trade system.

    FWIW, as a landscape architect with a 30 year career, I've been directly responsible for well over one million trees being planted. That's a least 22,000 tonnes of abatement right there.
    Excellent, although again, you had primarily an economic motive, and I'm not criticising that. Just being real. When we planted trees on our farm, we had a purely aesthetic and environmental motive. The contour banks they were planted on were built for an economic motive.
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

  7. #24857
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    Gary, I had the guys out to look at putting solar on my roof. Two different companies told me I'd have to cut down most of my trees. That would cost in excess of $10k, just for the tree destruction...

    OK, so I asked one of them, how common is it for people to cut down trees to install solar? "Very," he answered. I wonder how many trees are sacrificed for the environment every day in Australia?
    How many trees are cut down for a coal mine or power station?
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  8. #24858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    Exactly. I'm in the same position, I couldn't possibly zero my emissions. The electorate thinks the same way - the same people that the polling tells us do believe in climate change. Something's missing, and I think it's that the "climate alarmists" are not saying that if we do "x" we'll get "y". All they're saying is that unless the whole world does "x" (and the whole world clearly is not doing "x") then the climate will continue changing, with catastrophic effects. Well, if the major premiss (Rick, look it up, it's "premiss" or "premise," in English) is falsified, then nothing follows.



    And I am suggesting that the electorate has said, "It might make me feel good but it would do precious little compared to the really big governments (USA and China, not to mention India) taking steps..."

    The logic is EXACTLY the same as yours, which of course is a perfectly reasonable view.



    I suggest that you go through what you just wrote again, and re-think it. You just explained that you personally can't do what's required, only governments can. It's either a question of personal responsibility, or a question of something you cannot handle yourself, and must be left to governments. This is not like littering, avoiding which has no real personal cost, it's something expensive that you admit you cannot afford. That seems to me to be what the electorate just said too.

    Cheers,
    John.
    large scale grid solar and wind will give you your zero emissions, you have to have the panels physically on your roof. I think you are looking for reasons why not rather than ways it can be done. I fact I think you being narrow minded in your approach to renewables.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  9. #24859
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    But that would take mental energy and independence of thought, and we wouldn't be able to join in trendy global campaigns by super wealthy people coupled with ideologues. (I mean, Al Gore, for goodness sake).
    I'm not wealthy by Australian standards. Anthropogenic global warming will actually hit the poorest people in the World the hardest.
    Do you think it wrong somehow that people like Al Gore are frequently pointing this out, and stating that rich people who do most of the polluting have a moral responsibility to take action to try and prevent a global socio-economic and socio-environmental disaster.

    The moment a scientist expresses any scepticism about the packaged up scare campaign being run by the IPCC or other globalists, he is defamed as a spokesman for coal or some such. Let's be real, most scientists will tell you they dare not say anything contrary to the current trendy views, they feel that it would be career threatening. The money and power is all on the side of the alarmists.
    Bollocks. The amount of money that has, for a very long time, been subsidising coal and oil, and being used by the coal and oil lobby to fund idiot faux-science by things like the Heartland Institute is vast and virtually unlimited compared with the cash available to science. Now think on the fact that there are at least 10 million environmental refugees as of the last best estimate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_migrant
    That's the meek John! Their inheritance is being burned, and we are burning it.

    Do you really think the mountain ranges of data proving AGW is real that tens of thousands of scientists who over decades having been saying the same thing, only every year with MORE data to back up their position are running a scare campaign? To what end, if this is some kind of conspiracy?

    Sounds more like denialist crap: The same kind of denialist crap that was served up by the tobacco industry, and is being served up by the sugar and processed food industry now.

    Almost every scientist who has spoken against AGW being real has been tied back to some kind of fossil fuel interest, just like all of those scientists who were co-opted by the tobacco industry, and are being co-opted now by the sugar and processed food industries.

    Excellent, although again, you had primarily an economic motive, and I'm not criticising that. Just being real. When we planted trees on our farm, we had a purely aesthetic and environmental motive. The contour banks they were planted on were built for an economic motive.
    What on earth make you think that economics, environmentalism and aesthetics are mutually exclusive?
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  10. #24860
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    No, I am not against moving to renewables. Read what I actually wrote. I am trying to understand the election, and commenting on human nature.


    Edit: That's replying to the previous post.
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

  11. #24861
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Oil and coal have been subsidised?

    Only if you really mean, rich people have kept prices high by abusing financial power.
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

  12. #24862
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    No, I am not against moving to renewables. Read what I actually wrote. I am trying to understand the election, and commenting on human nature.


    Edit: That's replying to the previous post.
    I don’t think Labor lost because of its stance on renewables or global warming. I think they lost because the LibNats and Palmer convinced enough of the electorate that Labor was going to do a number of things, such as a death tax...which in fact they were not going to do. The franking credits debacle added to that as well. On a single party vote Labor would have won. A hostile Murdoch press didn’t help either.
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  13. #24863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    No, I am not against moving to renewables. Read what I actually wrote. I am trying to understand the election, and commenting on human nature.
    Go back and watch the Larry the Liquidator speech and that's, in essence, what the election was about.

    It was a prayer, based upon a scare campaign, about staving off the inevitable. Amen!

    WA is looking at implementing it's own price on carbon as a result of the election, with overtures to other states to join in the scheme should it get going.

    ScoMoFo irrelevance much?
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  14. #24864
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    Oil and coal have been subsidised?

    Only if you really mean, rich people have kept prices high by abusing financial power.
    The government subsidises the coal industry in a number of ways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I don’t think Labor lost because of its stance on renewables or global warming. I think they lost because the LibNats and Palmer convinced enough of the electorate that Labor was going to do a number of things, such as a death tax...which in fact they were not going to do. The franking credits debacle added to that as well. On a single party vote Labor would have won. A hostile Murdoch press didn’t help either.
    What a load of pap.

    The Coalition scored 5,906,861 lower house votes... and gained 4 seats

    Labor scored 4,752,631 lower house votes... and lost 4 seats.

    The Watermelons won 1 seat... same as before.

    Independents won 5 seats... same same... but different.

    In the Senate, it looks like the Coalition are going to 35 seats, Labor 26, Watermelons 8 or 9, One Nation 2, Centre Alliance 2 and Australian Conservatives, 1. You might recall, I told you there would be a major cleanout of the riffraff in the Senate. I told you. Yep, I told you so.

    Labor lost because of their arrogance... and they still have the arrogants on the leadership team - vis Wong, etc. They point blank refused to cost their "environmental" measures. Arrogant in the extreme.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  16. #24866
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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    The government subsidises the coal industry in a number of ways.
    Another arrogant claim with nothing to support it.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  17. #24867
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Another arrogant claim with nothing to support it.
    Ask yer Lib mates.
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  18. #24868
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    What a load of pap.

    The Coalition scored 5,906,861 lower house votes... and gained 4 seats

    Labor scored 4,752,631 lower house votes... and lost 4 seats.

    The Watermelons won 1 seat... same as before.

    Independents won 5 seats... same same... but different.

    In the Senate, it looks like the Coalition are going to 35 seats, Labor 26, Watermelons 8 or 9, One Nation 2, Centre Alliance 2 and Australian Conservatives, 1. You might recall, I told you there would be a major cleanout of the riffraff in the Senate. I told you. Yep, I told you so.

    Labor lost because of their arrogance... and they still have the arrogants on the leadership team - vis Wong, etc. They point blank refused to cost their "environmental" measures. Arrogant in the extreme.
    As a coalition yes but if it had been on a single party basis Labor would have won. The Libs only got in because of the Nationals votes an Palmers preferences.
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    Looking at the economic position and how it is effecting middle Australia's, the ALP may yet thank their lucky stars that the electorate is so guillible.
    But I doubt the ALP would have had the answers either.

    Of course I may just be rationalising, but I'm not welded on to any of them. Way too much 'me tooism' in the ALP's ever expanding electoral agendas.

  20. #24870
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    I didn't have high hopes of a Labor government but I feel they have at least done something.
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    On reflection I think that the ALP are just as compromised as the Lib/Nats, and as unlikely as them to actually achieve much of real importance. But there was a difference, Labour had a plan. Whether or not that plan would ever come to fruition is a moot point but that applies to any election and any party. Gaining personal advantage and political power by blatant lies and fraud is not ilegal.

    But personally I still dismiss those who voted for the Coalition as no longer worth my consideration.
    And as I've said before, it's not my grandkids that will pay the price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    As a coalition yes but if it had been on a single party basis Labor would have won. The Libs only got in because of the Nationals votes an Palmers preferences.
    If, if, if....

    The Coalition stood as a coalition. IIRC, they were a combined ticket in the Senate... same as a single party. I don't think there were any triangular contests in the lower house with Libs and Nats opposing each other - and if there were, it wouldn't have been many.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Ask yer Lib mates.
    Typical leftie response... attack the man rather than deal with the substance of the question. How's it feel to never be able to answer a question?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    As ye sow.


    I noted Korman on radio this morning still fighting the election.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Typical leftie response... attack the man rather than deal with the substance of the question. How's it feel to never be able to answer a question?
    I don’t know, how does it feel?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Typical leftie response... attack the man rather than deal with the substance of the question. How's it feel to never be able to answer a question?

    It seems to me the above post smacks of hypocrisy Ian. Firstly attacking the man is a frequent strategy of yours! It was your very first response to me on this forum, and I will not forget it. But more to the point i will address your refusal to answer a question, to respond to a post or series of posts in a linear fashion to facilitate a conversational exchange of differing opinions.

    In my post #54 http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ustralia/page2
    i clearly invited you to respond in specifics as I have done several times in discussions with you. You are determined it seems, not to follow a linear argument but rather dodge around aspects od a discussion to complicate and obstruct clear argument. Here is my post post Ian. I invite you to respond in the relevant thread...........

    #54http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ustralia/page2

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    There's appropriate openness - the Opposition receive top level security briefings. I know a number of people who receive the briefings... and no, I've never discussed nor seen the briefing materials, just the process. It was interesting to see, on Sky TV, speculation that some of the material leaked may have been leaked by a politician. If so, it's really serious.... it's an attack on the system that provides that openness. Have a long hard think about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    Listening to Radio National's breakfast show this morning I thought the interview with Anthony Whealy QC and former NSW Supreme Court Judge made some strong and clearly stated arguments about the recent raids. Ian, in the interview he differentiates between what are some of your legitimate concerns regarding matters of national security and what he argues is at play in the recent raids.
    I have been posting on the subject as a response to the OP's question What's going on in Australia. I have also posted some frivolous pics and stirred the pot a bit......no Ian I haven't been smoking any but perhaps you would like to engage in the subject being discussed so I can understand your perspective. As I have stated before, I don't mind someone shedding light on a different opinion.
    Ian, have a listen to the podcast from RN where Anthony Whealy outlines concerns along the line that i have been communicating and let me know what you think.
    Its about 11 min long.
    Australian Law Council warns against winding back press freedom following AFP raids on RN Breakfast - Separate stories podcast - ABC Radio
    Last edited by Hallam; 06-10-2019 at 06:35 PM.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.




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    Communication minister not communicating…...

    They've just won an election, the voters voted with their pockets in mind and have short memories. I do not expect that government will bother with answering questions on much at all relying on the Murdoch press to be their mouthpiece as usual.
    After all we now know how much it cost to but an election, and that fictional claims and fraud can turn a campaign around in a few weeks. Why would the government bother to treat the electorate as other than mushrooms.
    For that matter maybe most of them are quite happy with being mushrooms and political fraud.
    Old Hermannn had it right I expect:
    Just a link, I'm not going to post the quote.
    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/335...war-why-should
    Last edited by skuthorp; 06-11-2019 at 02:19 AM.

  28. #24878
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    International education? The kissing ap or his work on sex robots?
    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...wtC8NHytdynyIA
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  29. #24879
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Yeah, well they used to hand out gongs and knighthoods to public servants for just doing what they were paid for, and industrialists for making money for themselves, so nothing much has changed at that end of the awards, but many good people also get a gong and richly deserve it.
    But I had to chortle at this:
    It’s going to be so much easier, so much more convenient to have sex with a robot. You can have exactly what kind of sex you want. That’s going to be the future,” he told News Corp in 2016.
    “Actual sex with humans may be like going to a concert. When you’re at home you can listen to Beethoven’s ninth symphony, it’s good enough and once or twice a year you’ll want to go the Royal Albert Hall and hear it in a concert hall.

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  30. #24880
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post

    Let's be real, most scientists will tell you they dare not say anything contrary to the current trendy views, they feel that it would be career threatening. The money and power is all on the side of the alarmists. So if you're running with the crowd, be clear about that, and please don't talk like the problem is the rich and powerful. Plenty of the rich and powerful are pushing the alarmist thing for all it's worth. Bucking it is the act of a very brave man.
    The fossil fuel industry has a capitalisation of something like 4.65 TRILLION. Total revenue is around 2 TRILLION a year, which is about 2 to 3% of the world's revenue. Are you seriously going to claim that an industry that includes some of the world's biggest companies and the world's richest people cannot afford to fund climate science?

    It is beyond bizarre to claim that all the money is on the side of the alarmists - it is utterly against the truth. For someone who claims to hate lies, you come up with a lot of.........less than truthful information, shall we say.

    I'm not sure how many scientists I know, but I know many of them and none of them will say that it is career threatening to say things contrary to conventional wisdom. My wife's former boss and his under-funded little team came up with something contrary to the trendy views of the time a while back. He claimed that one of the basic ideas of astronomy was wrong.

    So what did "the crowd" do when he refused to run with them?

    They gave him the Nobel Prize, that's what. Just as they did to so many other scientists who broke with the crowd. Because that is the way that scientists work - those who break the established ideas are those who win the big gigs, not those who run with the crowd.
    Last edited by Chris249; 06-11-2019 at 04:44 AM.

  31. #24881
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Originally Posted by WX
    The government subsidises the coal industry in a number of ways.



    Another arrogant claim with nothing to support it.


    "But what about the economic cost? A new report has revealed that the financial “propping up” of the Australian coal export industry, through a range of government subsidies aimed at boosting production, is cost costing taxpayers roughly $5.2 per tonne of coal produced, or a total of $1.8 billion a year.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/coal-pro...-a-year-77543/

    Coal will be with us for a while yet, but the industry will be smaller, and on notice.

    It all depends really on how much warming we get. 2, 4, 6, and over how long as to where our species end up. The species will probably survive, western civilisation maybe not so as billions attempt to move
    Last edited by skuthorp; 06-11-2019 at 05:22 AM.

  32. #24882
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Imagine what $1.8 billion in renewables R&D per year could achieve.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  33. #24883
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    They'd likely still give it to the coal industry to 'research clean coal'.

  34. #24884
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    NSW Labor and Chinese money, again.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-...minns/11191042
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  35. #24885
    Join Date
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    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Maybe he's been bought. Maybe he's a realist considering the shifting of the world's power bases.
    Doesn't leave the discriminating voter anywhere to go but a futile protest vote for some independent, or refusal.

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