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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #1751
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    I agree that the matter does need to be resolved, in a court if necessary. I do not agree however with your estimation of the Australian's editorial quality. I guess that's to be expected both ways.

  2. #1752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Please forgive me in advance if this is as silly a question as it seems to me.....................but I just have to ask it anyway.......


    If we are supporting sanctions against Russia, meaning we don't want to sell them stuff and we don't want to buy any of their stuff - why the heck do we care if they don't actually want our stuff???

    A very good question, I can't really work out why Abbott has slapped sanctions on Russia, it's not going to do ANY harm at all to Russia but kills $400m worth of Australian farm exports .... which they will just source else where. So much for the farmers because there will be no assistance to those farmers ....... but Abbott gets to stand with the big boys for half an hour.

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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  4. #1754
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    "I think Ian is displaying anti ABC bias ."
    As I said before, that is to be expected. And as for "Did they ever do that to Labor?" Labor aren't in government and there isn't a fed. election in the offing.

  5. #1755
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    The logic of Ian's criticism is that a broadcaster can't introduce a new critical assessment tool for the public ....ever because at any one time one or other party would be in power and thus would be disadvantaged by well documented and backed up criticism of it's BS. He ignores the Fact that criticism of all parties is illustrated above and there is plentiful BS from all comers to criticise.

    Fail Ian.

    Can do better.
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  6. #1756
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Hartcher sums up a weekus horibilis for the Government, along with a good critique of its competency to govern:

    Tony Abbott told us in March that “the point of being prime minister is that you've got to be a national leader, not just a tribal chief.” It hadn’t happened on election day. But has he made the transformation this week?Several commentators have told us so. And every patriotic Australian, regardless of how we happen to vote, must want the nation’s leader to transcend politics and govern for the success of the country as a whole. Is that what happened this week?


    Abbott has worked exceptionally hard in responding to the attack on MH17, as he should. The government effort so far has been exemplary. As part of it, Abbott declared a national day of mourning for the victims this week.
    It wasn’t all about him; he gave a fine eulogy at the all-faith service in Melbourne’s St Patrick’s Cathedral but it was a national, civic and bipartisan event, not a political one.
    And he abandoned an ideological indulgence, his promised change to the Racial Discrimination Act. The reason? “I don’t want to do anything that puts our national unity at risk at this time,” he said at his Tuesday press conference. This involved some political cost.


    He instead announced a suite of policies to counter terrorism, a fight that demands national cohesion: “The highest priority of government is the safety of our community and I want to ensure the Australian people that we will leave no stone unturned to ensure that our community is as safe as it can be.”
    He promised to provide confidential intelligence briefings to the opposition, keeping it bipartisan. This does indeed look like a picture of a national leader, not a tribal chief. Unfortunately, it’s not the full picture.
    Three telltale signs suggest that we still have a tribal chief running the country. While Abbott’s conduct over MH17 is impeccable, the counterterrorism exercise this week displayed underlying tribalism that jeopardises the project.


    First was the internal animosity, the personal distrust at the heart of the government. The National Security Committee of the cabinet agreed to the counterterrorism measures on Monday. They were to be presented to a meeting of the full cabinet on Tuesday.


    But cabinet ministers were surprised to wake up on Tuesday morning and find that the prime minister’s office had leaked to The Daily Telegraph one of the most controversial elements - the decision to force telecommunications companies to keep records of customers’ phone and internet activities for two years so they could be used to seek out terrorist threats.
    This is the so-called metadata, the records of the “who, where, when and how” of communications without including the “what”. It’s what Abbott has called “the front of the envelope” information, as distinct from the content of the letter.


    A number of ministers were concerned that the leak was premature. The NSC decision was only an “in-principle” one. There was no detail. This would soon become glaringly obvious to the entire country as the Prime Minister and his Attorney-General, George Brandis, took to the airwaves to explain their plans only to contradict each other.


    But no minister was more surprised, or more dismayed, than Malcolm Turnbull. The Communications Minister is not a member of the NSC; no communications minister ever has been. But the NSC routinely brings into its deliberations ministers whose portfolios might be affected by matters on the agenda. Immigration Minister Scott Morrison, for instance, is a frequent participant.
    Turnbull spoke out in the cabinet meeting to point out the lack of detail for the telecommunications industry and the public, the uncertainty that would be created, and the room for confusion. He was the only cabinet minister to register any unhappiness. But, as one of his cabinet colleagues remarked, “It’s not just one person, it’s Malcolm.”


    “Malcolm’s agenda,” said another cabinet minister, “is to get himself onto the NSC. That’s what it was really about.” Turnbull would, no doubt, welcome the invitation. He is not a man who holds his own opinions in low esteem.
    He might even have something useful to offer. It’s an era where “cyber warfare is the current battlefield, not in some future time but right now, today” in the words of US Marine Corps General Richard Simcock when he spoke to reporters in Canberra in June.


    But to Turnbull it appeared to be a calculated effort by the Prime Minister’s office to humiliate him. A decision in his portfolio had been made, and announced by leak, without any hint to the minister. That made it a fait accompli.
    It was not the first time that Turnbull felt himself to be the victim of paranoid pathology in the Prime Minister’s office. The government announced last month that it had made appointments to the ABC and SBS nominations committee, the four-member body that recommends directors for the public broadcasters.


    The announcement was news to Turnbull, the minister who oversees both organisations. There were two tribal appointments to the panel, the conservative commentator Janet Albrechtsen and former Liberal deputy leader Neil Brown. The process was too tribal to include Turnbull.


    Technically, Turnbull did not need to be consulted on either matter. But the decision to exclude the most popular member of the government, and one of its most articulate performers, was petty politics. It was also counterproductive.


    The idea of requiring the telecoms firms to keep the data is not revolutionary. The police and intelligence agencies have been routinely searching mobile phone and computer metadata since the technologies first came into use. This is status quo.


    The independent senator for South Australia, Nick Xenophon, raised privacy concerns about this in May last year. “Is it the case under the Australian legislation,” Xenophon asked the Federal Police commissioner Tony Negus in a Senate committee hearing, “that, in order to obtain the phone records and the phone data and also presumably the Facebook and Google data of a person, you do not actually need to get a warrant?”
    Negus replied: “Non-content data - that is correct. We do not need a warrant.” The police and intelligence agencies need internal authorisation from senior managers to get access to the data, and they check about 300,000 records a year, but no warrant.


    So what’s new? Some phone companies no longer keep all the records the agencies need. They’re starting to switch their billing systems to charge customers for blocks of time instead of numbers of calls. The government simply wants them to continue with the old practice. “We’re shoring up the status quo,” as one senior official put it. The telecoms firms are unhappy because it will cost them money, not because it involves any new privacy breach.


    If this had been clearly grasped and properly explained from the outset, the government would not have descended into the debacle of the week. Its counterterrorism announcement created confusion and fear and controversy where none need have existed.


    The leaked decision precluded any work on the detail; the exclusion of Turnbull shut out the government’s most expert communications spokesman. It was boneheaded management based on the pettiest of tribal division.
    The second telltale sign was Abbott’s decision to name the Muslim community in his appeal for national unity. “When it comes to counterterrorism everyone needs to be part of ‘Team Australia’” said Abbott. Yet he singled out the Muslim community. We are “determined to engage in ever closer consultation with communities including the Australian Muslim community.”


    Muslim Australians were, understandably, angry. It was tantamount to naming them as a terrorist threat. Some are. But that’s why the wider Muslim community is a vital resource for managing them. If Abbott wants their co-operation, why gratuitously antagonise them? This, again, is not the act of a national leader.


    Cont...


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  7. #1757
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    "I think Ian is displaying anti ABC bias ."
    As I said before, that is to be expected. And as for "Did they ever do that to Labor?" Labor aren't in government and there isn't a fed. election in the offing.

    That isn't absolutely written in stone , a DD may yet end up being Abbott's last card.
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    ...
    And his magnanimous act in abandoning his planned revision to the Racial Discrimination Act? It was a dead letter in any case. It was adamantly opposed by every ethnic group in the land. It divided the Liberal party room and the Abbott cabinet. It was opposed by an astonishing 88 per cent of the public. It had no chance of getting through the Senate.

    Well-connected ethnic communities had been authoritatively assured for over two months now that the change to 18C would be dumped. It was just a matter of finding the opportunity that involved the least loss of face, they were told.


    The third telltale sign was the priority the government put on winning bipartisan support for the counterterrorism measures. While it said it was happy to extend classified briefings to the opposition, Labor soon got the impression that it was a low priority.


    Abbott made the announcement on Tuesday. The government arranged for intelligence chiefs to give the media a background briefing on Tuesday afternoon. They gave the media a second briefing on Wednesday. On Friday the government sent senior officials of ASIO and the federal police into a press conference to try to clarify the confusions about retaining metadata. Only on Friday afternoon was Labor afforded a briefing. A government serious about winning bipartisan support, and serious about getting its measures through Parliament, would have brought Labor into the room at the very outset. Certainly before leaking it to a newspaper.
    But Labor can at least take some consolation that its exclusion was bipartisan. These three telltales show us that Abbott has not yet got, in his own definition, “the point of being prime minister.”


    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/tony-a...#ixzz39rYWsujR
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  9. #1759
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    That isn't absolutely written in stone , a DD may yet end up being Abbott's last card.
    I wouldn't hold my breath, I don't reckon Clive would risk it. But then I suspect that only one of 'his' senators are welded on.

    The deliberate and public snub to Turnbull, and the preclusion by leak of any serious modification of the legislation might appeal to the strong revenge slant to this government, but i the long run will get up and bite them. Similarly with the pursuit of Gillard, it's got more to do with the Libs rage at their time in opposition than it has to any matter of justice, though I allow that there may actually have been some funny business. .

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    I don't actually know what Palmer wants beyond revenge on the Lib Nats for his Qld humiliation so as far as I can see he is VERY loose cannon and will do as much damage as he can. I don't think he expects his "party " to last long but as long as it causes the Nats pain, he's happy.

    If he wants to hang around he can probably collect quite a following of anti government , a curse on both your parties conservative old Labor types with a few hunters and fishers thrown it. Then there's all those confused Paulines needing a messiah, it's a rich fishing ground .
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    ...it's got more to do with the Libs rage at their time in opposition than it has to any matter of justice....
    Yes, ever since Pig-Iron Bob, the Libs have believed in their 'divine right to rule', haven't they? I have no idea where they got it from, but it's certainly part of their collective ethos.

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  12. #1762
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    The right school old chap, what else !
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    Hh'mm... I think it's more than that, Peter. It's a sort of religion with them -- unquestioning, doctrinal... Some bigotry. Superciliousness. And always so dogmatic about it all, too.

    In fact, all the things that a true liberal is not.

    If they wanted to be brutally honest about it (which of course they wouldn't -- they don't want to be even a little bit honest about anything much), maybe they should change their name to the 'Divine Right Party'?

    BTW I went to one of those 'right' schools myself, but I was never a member of the Libs (or any other political party for that matter) and I've been a swinging voter since my teens. But then, I don't claim to be religious either....

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  14. #1764
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    I went to a C of E grammar and the underlying current and the body of lectures to the assembled was , prepare to rule . Adelaide was old school and old money .... very much Downer and such. The attitude remains.
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    The war on radical Islam will only be won by not handing members of that religion golden excuses on red velvet cushions, such as the US continuing to support Israel, the whole criminal and human rights debacle in Iraq, so on and so forth. Soft power used to be valued; not much more these days. To my mind the twisted versions of Islam being preached by these nut-cases is like a fire: Starve it of oxygen and it will go out. The "war" will cost less in both lives lost and cash and more likely be over sooner. I refer to the way such ferment ended in the Algerian desert, with various factions killing each other over who had the most "pure" version of Islam. Life of Brian got it all those years ago.

    “They should advance a narrative that explains that radical Islamism and the terrorism it breeds at home and abroad will remain a significant threat for the long term, it will require considerable effort, the expenditure of blood and treasure and it will, of necessity, restrict our rights and liberties,” he said.
    In that case the terrorists have won already. Benjamin Franklin summed it up nicely with, ”He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.”
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    bin Laden won handsomely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    The war on radical Islam will only be won by not handing members of that religion golden excuses on red velvet cushions, such as the US continuing to support Israel, the whole criminal and human rights debacle in Iraq, so on and so forth. Soft power used to be valued; not much more these days. To my mind the twisted versions of Islam being preached by these nut-cases is like a fire: Starve it of oxygen and it will go out.
    Sorry Duncan, but I think that's a rather idealistic view of this issue.
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  18. #1768
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    Proably so Greg, but freedoms lost or relinquished are seldom reinstated willingly by the parties that benefit.

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    How do you fight an idea Greg? I'd think that ensuring the idea has no, or very little basis in any fact would be a terrific start.

    I'm sure you wouldn't doubt that the actions of Western nations over the past 100 years in the Middle East have come home to roost in the form of Islamic fundamentalism. By ignoring the realities of tribalism of that region we've only done ourselves a great disservice. TE Lawrence was brilliant at reading this social landscape and it seems we've had too few of any influence on Western foreign policy since who have been able to do as well as he did.

    The decision to invade Iraq was an almighty cluster root of Biblical proportions. I was in Doha in 2003 and talked to locals (a very multi-cultural mob) and they basically said that Iraq would fragment and be a conflict zone for decades, and this is precisely what has happened. IMHO Obama is correct for keeping his distance as much as possible and I'd think that air strikes will be very limited and very strategic in their scope. I note that they're being conducted in concert with humanitarian aid drops.

    If I were to use another analogy, Islamic fundamentalism is a bit like a virus: There's no 'cure' as such and the illness has to run its course. But giving up our freedoms, in particular habeas corpus and the right to a presumption of innocence, is a bridge too far. Way too far.
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    Looks like Tony has his 'war' but some think it may outlast him. But it make any questioning of the security powers extensions very difficult for anyone in opposition.
    "The former Chief of the Australian Army, professor Peter Leahy, has warned that Australia needs to prepare itself for a century-long war, both overseas and at home, against radical Islamic militants."

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz39vuSAMyU

    I expect that our C130's will be joined by whatever the US asks for and seeing we were part of the 'coalition of the willing' that broke it we certainly own it, or rather Howard does. Question now of course is what happens to a couple of hundred thousand more refugees?

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    I think I've said a few times about Iraq, go for three generations or don't start. We started .
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    Just a little window on the up and coming Liberal Party input in Victoria . http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mi...809-3dfhw.html Definitely born to rule .



    Young Liberals at one the country's most elite universities have posted racist, crude and misogynist comments on social media, describing women as ''sluts'', Muslims as ''degenerates'' and saying all feminists are ugly.
    Only days after two Liberal candidates were forced to quit ahead of November's state election over a series of derogatory posts on Facebook and Twitter, the party has been rocked again by offensive behaviour in its ranks.

    In a series of screenshots of Facebook messages leaked to Fairfax Media, the Melbourne University Liberal Club members attack feminist and alumni Germaine Greer, take aim at homosexuality, and repeatedly demean women.
    Club treasurer Stefan Eracleous describes Ms Greer as a ''lying f---ing c-m guzzling slut … and a union member''.
    ''She doesn't believe in God. No kids not married … what do you [e]xpect from a melb uni educated former socialist c---,'' he wrote.
    He also refers to London as ''the gay capital of the world'' and appears to hit out at Muslims, telling a friend: ''Just be careful of those mussrats. A lot of them are [a] bunch of Third World degenerate c---s.''

    The club's vice-president, Charlie Cartney, said in a Facebook message in January that a venue was ''definitely worth a visit'' because it had a Mexican restaurant and an upstairs bar with ''lots of sluts'', saying in another post: ''Get some sluts for me.''
    Other members of the group referred to former prime minister Julia Gillard as a ''twat'' and said ''Tara Moss should only be on TV if she is in a bikini''.

    The posts are another embarrassing blow for the Liberals - surfacing days after party chiefs warned MPs and candidates to act appropriately on social media - and have fuelled Labor's claims of a broader cultural problem within Liberal ranks.
    The Young Liberals and university Liberal clubs often are seen as a starting point for people interested in politics, with Melbourne University alumni including state treasurer Michael O'Brien, federal senator Scott Ryan and federal Higgins MP Kelly O'Dwyer.
    The Melbourne University Liberal Club's Facebook page also shows members campaigning for the state election with candidates and MPs, including Attorney-General Robert Clark and backbenchers Clem Newton-Brown and Neil Angus.

    Club president Michael Sabljak said he was not aware of the comments until The Sunday Age contacted him because they were not on an official Melbourne University Liberal forum, but denied the club had a homophobic, sexist or misogynistic culture.
    Mr Eracleous refused to provide any comment despite being contacted by The Sunday Age a number of times. Mr Cartney said he was not prepared to provide a response without evidence. Despite being given the relevant material, he still had not commented.

    The revelations follow the resignation of two Liberal candidates for the state election in recent days over offensive social media posts. Bendigo West candidate Jack Lyons quit last week after it was revealed he wrote dozens of offensive Facebook posts, including racist comments about people from China and Africa.

    Former Young Liberals president Aaron Lane, who had been endorsed as the party's candidate for Western Region in the upper house, resigned the previous week after he was exposed for tweeting a barrage of crude comments which included the derogatory term ''faggot''.
    Dr Lauren Rosewarne, a senior lecturer at Melbourne University's school of social and political sciences, said it was impossible for the Liberal Party to control its message in the era of social media.
    ''Social media is a very, very tricky game for people who haven't been trained in media and communications,'' Dr Rosewarne said.
    She said nothing was private on social media and if candidates or clubs aligned with the party went ''off message or rogue'', the party was responsible for reining them in.

    ''It's really damaging to the political party brand.''
    State director Damien Mantach declined to comment.




    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mi...#ixzz39wR6XOGi
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    There are still a few weird arsed bigots in the Labor Party who usually find themselves getting chucked out, but the Liberals seem to have more than their fair share and then they usually try and hush it up, until it's all too late.
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    Speaking at the World Families Conference you will find Social services Minister Andrews - also their 'international ambassador", Vic. State AG Robert Clarke, MP Bernie Finn whose address will be chaired by Rosalie Crestani, a state election candidate for the Rise Up Australia Party, which is also anti-abortion, against the word "multiculturalism" and opposed to same-sex marriage. Also speaking is Larry Jacobs. Dr Jacobs has been a strong supporter of Russian laws banning gay pride demonstrations and "homosexual propaganda".
    Abetz and Bernardi are listed as sponsors. There's whole list of 'interesting' supporters to this event here.
    http://www.endeavourforum.org.au/new...melbourne.html

  25. #1775
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    "Liberal" has become newspeak of ultra conservative.
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    BTW, a mid 1700's Chinese coin has been found on Elco Island. Stand by for a territorial claim.
    But wait, in the 1940's 1000 year old African coins were found nearby. A counter claim no doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Speaking at the World Families Conference you will find Social services Minister Andrews - also their 'international ambassador", Vic. State AG Robert Clarke, MP Bernie Finn whose address will be chaired by Rosalie Crestani, a state election candidate for the Rise Up Australia Party, which is also anti-abortion, against the word "multiculturalism" and opposed to same-sex marriage. Also speaking is Larry Jacobs. Dr Jacobs has been a strong supporter of Russian laws banning gay pride demonstrations and "homosexual propaganda".
    Abetz and Bernardi are listed as sponsors. There's whole list of 'interesting' supporters to this event here.
    http://www.endeavourforum.org.au/new...melbourne.html
    The whole thing is an obscenity.
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    Life family... And I love this bit, freedom.
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    1730 IIRC , I wonder if this will put us under the eye of a Chinese, "we were there first claim"?
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    I see the Young Liberals have been exercising their IQs again.
    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mi...809-3dfhw.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I see the Young Liberals have been exercising their IQs again.
    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mi...809-3dfhw.html
    I posted about that this morning ... just what you need in young political wannabes, racist, homophobic and misogynist. New Liberalism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I posted about that this morning ... just what you need in young political wannabes, racist, homophobic and misogynist. New Liberalism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Portland View Post
    It could be worse.
    They could be lefty bludgers !.
    Ya reckon . Your choice.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  33. #1783
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Whatever Rob .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  34. #1784
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Portland View Post
    The previous government welcomed these turkeys in , no affective border control , no affective checking of their true identity , and what have we got ?.
    Its alright for the lefty bludgers to point the finger at other people , but what is THEIR legacy ?.
    Are you saying the Victorian Young Liberals are new immigrants ? I didn't know .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  35. #1785
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,977

    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    University student politicians ? Working ? Really !

    You have high expectations .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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