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Thread: Oz Politics.

  1. #19601
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    It's better with Jacinta speaking... but that's a Drum clip that's available on FB. I might see if it links
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  3. #19603
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    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  4. #19604
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    I like that...though I was rather liking the idea of May8 Maate.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  5. #19605
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    I like the idea of the day Australia became one county. 1 Jan.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  6. #19606
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I like the idea of the day Australia became one county. 1 Jan.
    It ain't happening.... as even that great Labor leader, Mark Latham, says... if the loonie left win this attempt at destructive change, they'll continue trying to destroy our society. The loonies can get stuffed, it isn't happening. Jacinta is quite right... if you've got an emotional problem... deal with it. It's great to see such wisdom and leadership in indigenous youth. That young woman will go far, and I wish her every success.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  7. #19607
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    The first fleet arrived on the 24th January and officially landed on the 26th January but the celebration date has varied from the 18th January though to July I think. As for the 1st January well federation was more about interstate trade than anything else.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Who benefits from tax money?

    To cherry pick an example; Over half of all arts funding in Australia goes to Opera. One artform patronized almost exclusively by very wealthy people ($400 tickets even after subsidy) - you never hear this mentioned when people talk about welfare. (Ballet gets the next biggest chunk, popular music gets zero).

    I can state categorically that 100% of Australians benefit from some kind of government subsidy. I would add that if everyone who became rich in Australia actually had to pay for all of the costs for their wealth (education/law enforcement/regulation/physical infrastructure) we'd find that the wealthiest of all citizens are net beneficiaries.

    I would further propose, as a long shot, that PAYE workers receive the least benefit from government subsidies. They have very few tax deductions - they are not in control of the tax coming out of their pockets. They tend to not have a whole lot of disposable income and so participate little in projects supported by government funding. I would hazard that PAYE workers are the closer to 'net tax payers' than any wealthy person, particularly compared to the extremely wealthy (who we know don't pay any tax anyway).
    Gawd, there's so much that's totally wrong in this that it isn't worth commenting on, beyond that.

    Here's a timely piece on the issue. The author's nailed it.... (as an aside, Gary Johns was one of the first Federal politicians that I ever lobbied - on a job creation mission to Canberra, where my client and I camped in the office of a Labor Minister for a few days)

    Enough asides.... over to Grace




    Let’s view the money-gathering activity of government in the context of its first origins and state a basic fact: all taxation is theft.

    Granted, taxation is legislated theft with the precise amounts set by people we elect, but the truth is that we elect our politicians under legal compulsion and we also pay the taxes these politicians set under compulsion. If you don’t pay the taxes our government says you have to pay, you will go to jail.

    Most people are happy to pay a reasonable amount of tax to fund a civilised society and the basic services we all want to share.

    However, some operate on the principle that more tax should always be paid, just as a general rule. In my experience, these people pay little or no tax themselves, or they earn their living off the public purse. They always want people to pay more tax — other people, not them. Tax the rich, they cry, and give me the money — I need, I need, I need.

    There are also organisations that never stop asking for higher taxes on business. Unions, charities, churches — these are where the loudest demands can always be heard. They themselves are income-tax exempt, yet they always maintain that others don’t pay enough.

    Everyone but us should pay more tax. Why? Just because — we want, we want, we want.

    High-tax enthusiasts could put their own money where their mouth is, of course, before they make demands on anyone else. To any person or organisation that advocates a greater tax take I say this: sure, you go first. Set up a direct debit from your personal or organisational bank account and every week give the Australian Taxation Office more than you are required to by law. Surely the more voluntary taxation you pay, the better you will feel. Then perhaps you might sit in pious silence and leave the rest of us alone.

    The history of taxation in England is fascinating and can help put our modern taxation in clearer context.

    In 1236, King Henry III had financial desires in excess of his ordinary income. His closest advisers, the noblemen, under the first recorded British use of the word “parliament”, granted him the legal right to tax the peasants regularly. Then the members of parliament roamed the country, physically confiscating taxes from the commoners.

    In November 1380 the elites raised taxes with a new poll tax of one shilling per head. The resentment was so fierce that a Peasants’ Revolt occurred.



    The Obesity Policy Coalition says there is a problem — widespread fatness — and the solution is a tax on sugar. Wrong.

    Commoners from Essex and Kent marched towards London. On the way they massacred merchants and razed a palace belonging to the king’s uncle. On arrival in London, the peasants stormed the Tower and beheaded the two politicians seen as responsible for the tax, the chancellor and the treasurer. Ah, the good old days — people did things properly back then, didn’t they? A joke on my part, of course, but only just.

    Nowadays our politicians keep their heads and jobs with a clever, grand lie. This lie has been told to us so many times by so many people in so many different ways that it has become an accepted truth.

    The lie is this: the government can provide you with something, or fix a problem of yours, at no cost to you, with money taken off someone else. The lie is that someone else can be taxed and that you won’t, somehow, in the end pay.

    The acceptance of this lie is surely our greatest example of self-defeating mass stupidity. In the long term, it could prove our undoing. When a majority of the people believe that almost every problem they have should and can be solved with taxes paid only by other people, it is difficult to envisage long-term success for a nation.

    Recently we have seen the latest mob of greedy graspers come forward with demands for a new tax, which they want to spend. The Obesity Policy Coalition says there is a problem — widespread fatness — and the solution is a tax on sugar.

    It is true that in 1980 only 9 per cent of us were obese. Now almost 30 per cent of us are obese, and by 2025 that figure is projected to reach 35 per cent. There are many reasons for this other than sugar in drinks, and in Your Body Belongs to the Nation, a fascinating book by Gary Johns, the great lies told by the public health lobby are demolished with facts.

    Our public health lobby says “that drinking, smoking, gambling, gluttonous fat slob ‘sinners’ are ruining the nation. Stopping them would save billions of dollars. Neither of these assertions is true,” according to Johns.

    He concludes that “a degree of regulation is justified where harm is obvious, its cause is direct and its effects irreversible, and the means of stopping the harm are not too taxing. But governments have begun to act as if your body belongs to them. They have become a parent, telling childlike citizens how to behave: instructing, forbidding, taxing and berating citizens about their personal choices.”

    Read Johns’s book and you will see that the last thing we need to do is put more money into an already huge pot so a horde of clipboard dietitians can spend it on creating their own careers, travelling to conferences and telling us all what to do.

    On this occasion, members of the federal government rebuffed the call for a sugar tax, which is marvellous. But still they missed an opportunity to remind the community that tax isn’t the answer to every problem and that in this economy we are all connected. No one can be taxed in isolation without the effects reverberating on to others.

    Those who can, should do their utmost at every turn to debunk the grand lie about tax and fight back against wasteful taxation. You see, every dollar a government takes out of the economy comes out of everyone’s pocket in one way or the other.

    Because we are all connected, every time one of us is taxed, we all pay in the end.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  9. #19609
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    Could just limit the amount of sugar in the ingredients...4 teaspoons of sugar in softdrink instead of twelve.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Could just limit the amount of sugar in the ingredients...4 teaspoons of sugar in softdrink instead of twelve.
    Remember that indigenous community in Victoria we were discussing? In the Royal Commission notes, IIRC, one of the interviewees was complaining that the family sugar allowance of 11 1/2 pounds of sugar, per week, wasn't enough.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  11. #19611
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Remember that indigenous community in Victoria we were discussing? In the Royal Commission notes, IIRC, one of the interviewees was complaining that the family sugar allowance of 11 1/2 pounds of sugar, per week, wasn't enough.
    People today probably consume that without knowing it. Look at things like Nutrigrain...touted as ironman food...it's bloody confectionery. I've treated it like popcorn watching movies.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  12. #19612
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    Medicare is the reason the will be a Sugar Tax, the very same reason tobacco has gone from government cash cow to pariah. Sugar seems to be the primary cause of a variety of expensive to treat ailments. The bean counters will "advise" ways to reduce it's consumption and thus reduce ''health expenditure'' .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  13. #19613
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    I'm inclined to agree, justified on health care cost grounds, but there's a fair bit of soft drink to go under that bridge yet.
    It's different to tobacco because you may have been addicted but you had to go out and buy the fags in a packet. Sugar, like its flavour partner salt, is hidden in almost everything you purchase to eat.
    I don't think it's about banning sugar, just some regulation, or even adequate labelling.

  14. #19614
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    .... and everyone ignores the main message of that piece
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  15. #19615
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    So tell us what the main message is..... to your eyes Ian.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  16. #19616
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    Ian, I have no skin in the game at my age…………… I am just an interested, amused and sometimes disgusted spectator.
    I have an opinion, as value neutral as I can be, and I don't really care who agrees or not. Humans seem to be their own worst enemy, but we breed up quickly and will likely survive all but a major collision with another lump of rock.
    Sugar content will not kill enough humans quickly enough to make a difference, but some reduction would do a deal of good.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 01-14-2018 at 05:34 AM.

  17. #19617
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    .... and everyone ignores the main message of that piece
    It's about one more tax correct? Well, just adjust the sugar content standard...don't need a tax then.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  18. #19618
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    We're about to be told all about individual responsibility etc but Ian is going to have to make that case to both Treasury and Health. I wonder if the bean counters will agree.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  19. #19619
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    I have no problem with individual responsibility, but it should apply equally at the top as well as at the bottom. Let's start with politicians, directors of asbestos companies, importers of unsafe products. Long way to go there.

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    Here's another Labor pollie I share some views with. Not many... but certainly this one - and of course, he's given airspace in the only balanced Australian media:



    Learned lawyers, judges and magistrates have always protected themselves from criticism. Recently three federal ministers were forced into grovelling apologies to the judges of the Victorian Supreme Court because they had dared to voice criticism of the lightness applied to sentencing offenders. Had these apologies not been given then the ministers could have been in contempt of court and been booted out of parliament.

    This is the mother of all protection rackets. Judges can make decisions that many people regard as weak as water, but if they dare to in any way go public with their views, even if those views were supported by a big majority of the population, then they can be imprisoned. In Australia, we believe in free speech unless it involves criticism of the judiciary.

    For decades I have complained about the tolerance magistrates, in particular, show towards those who breach the rules of the road. How many times does a person have to drive without a licence before they are sent to jail for a lengthy period?


    There is no deterrent for driving after your licence has been suspended because the odds are stacked so far in the miscreants’ favour. Recidivist offenders are confident that the worst that happens on the vast majority of occasions is the imposition of a fine and the suspension yet again of their licence. This is a problem in all the states and territories and now that the road toll is again being elevated to the front pages, it is time for a forensic analyst to look at the history of the problem so magistrates can no longer duck and weave their way out of admitting that the problem exists.


    For all the talk and angst that surrounds the topic of human rights, there is one human right we always seem to forget. When the Falkholt family — parents Lars and Vivian, with daughters Jessica and Annabelle — took off for a NSW south coast holiday — they stuck to the rules. They stuck to their side of the road. They weren’t speeding or driving erratically and yet, mum, dad and Annabelle are dead and Jessica’s life support system has been turned off. Their basic human right — the right to a Christmas holiday and a safe return to their ordinary lives — was violated and torn from them.


    A grub by the name of Craig Whitall brought their lives to a shattering halt when the car he was driving crossed over to the other side of the road and smashed head-on into the Falkholts’ vehicle. Adding to the sickening nature of this “accident”, this bloke had just been to the methadone clinic for his much-needed shot.


    Here comes the tragic record — 60 driving offences, four times jailed for dangerous driving and 10 times convicted for driving while suspended. To have this man behind the wheel of a car travelling on the Princes Highway towards the Falkholts means this was more a mass murder than an accident. Using the age-old phrase “an accident waiting to happen” just doesn’t cut it here.


    How is it possible that the Premier, the Roads Minister, the Attorney-General or whoever, is not crying out for action on this. Why hasn’t a study been ordered of this man’s history in the courts? Why don’t we know the names of the judicial officers who gave him hopelessly weak penalties for his crimes? Why can’t we name and shame all of those who enabled Whitall to be free and to be behind the wheel of a car?


    This is not just about him driving without a licence. Oh no — this is about giving him a licence to murder an innocent family.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  21. #19621
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    Now, on the issue of voting intentions. I heard it reported the other day, on a story about texting drivers.... where some enterprising chap had strapped a camera to the railing of a bridge over the Warringah Freeway and obtained video evidence of numberplates and drivers texting... 743 of them in a six hour period, and it was mentioned that the Roads Minister "had privacy concerns". Well, if she's being reported correctly, I need a new political party to support. It won't be to the left of hers.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  22. #19622
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    The first steel for the Melbourne Brisbane rail line is due in Parkes today, for the Parkes-Naramine section. Barney has to announce progeress to parliament soon evidently. Planning, and even routes for the rest of it are yet to be determined.

  23. #19623
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    As it happens on the subject of individual responsibility for one's actions, it should apply to the legal community as much as anyone else.
    Whitehall should not have been in a situation where he was capable of getting into a car.

  24. #19624
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    As it happens on the subject of individual responsibility for one's actions, it should apply to the legal community as much as anyone else.
    Whitehall should not have been in a situation where he was capable of getting into a car.
    Agreed and there must be thousands like him out there ..... what do you suggest Ian?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Agreed and there must be thousands like him out there ..... what do you suggest Ian?
    Performance management of the judiciary would be nice, but not by Parliament - except as the legal means of removal - as was done in one case some years back. Independent review authority. No reason they shouldn't be named and shamed. They need to be made responsible to the community they serve. At the moment, they see themselves as responsible to themselves.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Meanwhile, the Greens have shown just how vacuous and puerile they are. If changing the date of Australia Day is one of their most important objectives, they really ought to be sued for misrepresentation in their party name. From the Oz... which, of course will be attacked as the messenger, as usual, despite it just reporting the facts here:

    Greens leader Richard Di Natale says changing the date of Australia Day will be one of his top priorities for 2018.

    Senator Di Natale has told more than 100 Greens councillors across the country that they will have the full support and resources of the federal party if they launch local campaigns to move celebrations from January 26.

    He said he hoped to build upon the momentum of the Greens-led Yarra and Darebin councils in Melbourne and the Fremantle council in Western Australia, which shifted Australia Day celebrations last year.

    “All Australians want a day on which we can come together and to celebrate our wonderfully diverse, open and free society, but January 26 is not that day,” Senator Di Natale said in comments to The Australian.


    “It’s time that we stop papering over an issue that for 200 years has been so divisive and painful for so many of our citizens.

    “That’s why the Australian Greens are redoubling our commitment to starting conversations with local communities about changing the date of Australia Day.”

    Senator Di Natale said Greens councillors serving across the country gave the party’s federal parliamentarians the opportunity to engage directly with local communities and support them to advance the case for changing the date.

    “By throwing our support behind the community groups and local councillors doing the hard yards on the ground, we want to kick start a national conversation about the legacy of January 26th and what a more inclusive Australia Day looks like as part of the process of reconciliation and towards a just settlement with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples,” Senator Di Natale said.

    “It is my hope that our increased support will contribute to many more councils following the lead of Fremantle, Yarra and Darebin.”

    Indigenous leaders have been pushing for the change in recent years, arguing January 26 marks the date the First Fleet landed in Sydney Cove in 1788, marking the beginning of British colonisation.

    However, the move has been opposed by many, including the Turnbull government, which banned Yarra, Darebin and Fremantle from holding citizenship ceremonies.

    Indigenous leader Jacinta Price spoke out against the move, launching a “Save Australia Day” ad campaign with former Labor leader Mark Latham and accusing other indigenous people of choosing to be offended by the date, rather than focusing on the positives of what Australians have achieved as a nation.

    In November, ABC youth radio station Triple J announced it would move its annual Hottest 100 music countdown from January 26 to January 27, after conducting two surveys which showed the majority of listeners supported the move.

    Communications Minister Mitch Fifield said he was “bewildered” by the move, arguing the ABC shouldn’t have bought into the debate.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Yep, the old right really has their knickers in a knot over this one, ''Colony of NSW Day'' is SO important! Puerile is the word for their absolute refusal to consider anyone else's opinion.

    ''Indigenous leaders have been pushing for the change in recent years, arguing January 26 marks the date the First Fleet landed in Sydney Cove in 1788, marking the beginning of British colonisation.''

    However, the move has been opposed by many, including the Turnbull government, which banned Yarra, Darebin and Fremantle from holding citizenship ceremonies.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Yep, the old right really has their knickers in a knot over this one, ''Colony of NSW Day'' is SO important! Puerile is the word for their absolute refusal to consider anyone else's opinion.

    ''Indigenous leaders have been pushing for the change in recent years, arguing January 26 marks the date the First Fleet landed in Sydney Cove in 1788, marking the beginning of British colonisation.''

    However, the move has been opposed by many, including the Turnbull government, which banned Yarra, Darebin and Fremantle from holding citizenship ceremonies.
    Very selective of you there Peter. You forgot to mention this bit:

    Indigenous leader Jacinta Price spoke out against the move, launching a “Save Australia Day” ad campaign with former Labor leader Mark Latham and accusing other indigenous people of choosing to be offended by the date, rather than focusing on the positives of what Australians have achieved as a nation.
    It's a leftist, destructive push.... and it will be divisive. If you want guaranteed divisiveness, push that barrow. Bring it on.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  29. #19629
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    But why this strange adherence to Colony of NSW Day rather than the day Australia became Australia ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    But why this strange adherence to Colony of NSW Day rather than the day Australia became Australia ?
    Do your own research. Various states had their own proclamation days. They were ditched in favour of Australia Day over 80 years ago.

    Start here

    https://www.australiaday.org.au/abou...a-day/history/
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  31. #19631
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    You didn't answer my question..... Australia Day, not one of the state Proclamation days.

    You know, the day Australia become a single entity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    You didn't answer my question..... Australia Day, not one of the state Proclamation days.

    You know, the day Australia become a single entity.
    Australia Day to me is a celebration of the nation that we are. You can celebrate past events if you want. Being Australian gives you that freedom. Oh, hang on, are you?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  33. #19633
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Australia Day to me is a celebration of the nation that we are. You can celebrate past events if you want. Being Australian gives you that freedom. Oh, hang on, are you?

    Do you ever read your posts before posting ??!
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  34. #19634
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Do you ever read your posts before posting ??!
    Ha Ha, this from the guy who wrote that Treasury "approved " a Labor election proposal. Best joke ever on the thread
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  35. #19635
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
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    Default Re: Oz Politics.

    and you're the bloke who want's to celebrate Colony of NSW Day as Australia day but complains about people celebrating past events ! Incredible.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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