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Thread: When Cruising was Simple

  1. #36
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    You could hire a simple sailing cruiser on the Norfolk Broads,, gas cooker and LED lights(they have modernised a bit), pump out toilets (they have grandfathers rights), most have no motor and those that do have electric..

    2 Berth Hustler Class Hunter's Yard
    Old crappers are grandfathered in?

  2. #37
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    You could hire a simple sailing cruiser on the Norfolk Broads,, gas cooker and LED lights(they have modernised a bit), pump out toilets (they have grandfathers rights), most have no motor and those that do have electric..

    2 Berth Hustler Class Hunter's Yard
    Oh, mercy.

    That is how I need to “retire”. Just a sweet boat like that, in a spot just like that...

  3. #38
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    15 years living aboard in the Caribbean, never had a fridge or an ice box.
    Still use a bucket.
    Our sink graywater goes into a 5 gallon bucket under the sink.
    All sweet water is in 5 gallon jugs...no water tanks,no pump.
    No watermaker ,no windmill,no outboard .
    Cruising remains simple for us.
    Of course, in the USA or Europe these things may not fly.
    Is it gentrification ,over regulation, advertizing hype , laziness ?
    Folks confuse simple with easy. They are different things.
    Having a simple boat is now a zen thing.
    I’m in! But, only if I get to sail Resinante.

    Seriously, I couldn’t imagine just being able to go swim, right off the “back porch”. The feeling of just being, with no particular place to go, and nothing special to do other than live... must be lovely.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    I guess one other change I made recently was to retire the inflatable tender and its outboard. I now have a Sabot and oars.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  5. #40
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    I cruise pretty simply and enjoy it. zero electronics, gravity feed potable water, ice box, usually use oil lamps at night.


  6. #41
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Ned , The light (camera flash?) bouncing off the plasic frames makes it look look like you have a disco in the focs'l !

  7. #42
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Oh, mercy.

    That is how I need to “retire”. Just a sweet boat like that, in a spot just like that...
    There was a popular humourous book that discribed sailing on the broads as not so much 'Mucking about in boats' more like 'Boating around in muck' Bit harsh, as I had a good few sails there, there is some mud involved..
    Last edited by Andrew2; 01-27-2021 at 03:04 AM.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post
    There was a popular humourous book that discribed sailing on the broads as not so much 'Mucking about in boats' more like 'Boating around muck' Bit harsh, as I had a good few sails there, there is some mud involved..
    99640A51-CFFD-4302-9DAF-DEC433EE5972.jpg
    I’ve been training.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    I have oil lamps and use them, but I do like a bright LED reading light over my bunk
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  10. #45
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Ian sure put his money where his comments were in 2014.

    Our Drake was still pretty much 1950 until LED lights came along: almost no draw, and an Origo stove: no moving parts or pumps or gaskets. Haven't made many other changes. I ripped out the fridge system and went back to icebox. No hot water. Wood stove.

    But waterproof decks are a good thing.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    We've gone mid-route. We use Dometic 12 volt fridge(s), two solar panels, and unpressurised metho (alcohol) stove with a kerosene oven. We use a lot of camping stuff; 12 volt shower running water heated on the stove; USB-powered LED lights, etc. No pressure water or hot water, and no real desire for it. I lived aboard for four years and did short cruises for many years without refrigeration and we find that in our hot summers, having the fridges is a real bonus. They are a pretty easy way to enjoy cool drinks and fresh food; buy them, plug one in and sometimes bring the other one down, ready chilled and packed.

    Using a bucket isn't very practical when you're in an anchorage with other boats and with people swimming off nearby beaches. Big built-in freshwater tanks can be much easier to fill and use than multiple small containers. Having a small RIB and a fast outboard can greatly increase your fun if you sometimes cruise with your dogs or if you love snorkelling, surfing, etc or like being able to zap around. A couple of days ago, I zipped off to a wholesaler to buy epoxy. Without a fast dinghy it would have taken several hours.

    Lots of different approaches are valid for people of different tastes, surely. Ironically, I find that many people with "simple" boats have complicated rigs on them. If they happen to like setting five sails how can they criticise people who like having a hot shower?
    Last edited by Chris249; 01-26-2021 at 09:25 PM.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Old crappers are grandfathered in?
    Yep, the roof level is so low, even with the pop top up, so the toilet base has to be mounted very low below the waterline, no room for a tank underneath. So they are permitted on boats existing before the laws came in. There are less than 300 boats left with such fittings, out of the several thousand registered. New boats have to find another solution.

    It's a general rule in the UK , you don't have to back date changes. Cars built before seat belts don't have to retrofit them..
    Just an amateur bodging away..

  13. #48
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Oh, mercy.

    That is how I need to “retire”. Just a sweet boat like that, in a spot just like that...
    Plenty of them about, mostly a lot bigger than the Hustlers, There are 429 river cruisers listed on the handicap list some are well over `100 years old some are brand new. The latest versions with hot shot sailers have carbon fibre masts etc.. But you don't need to race and if you do the handicaps give you just as much chance as a modern boat. All can race or cruise about as they wish..

    Here's a bigger one 30ft, that I've competed against some years ago.. complete with that pump out toilet..

    https://www.topsail.co.uk/boat.php?refnum=1674#images and it will give you an idea of prices..
    Just an amateur bodging away..

  14. #49
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post
    There was a popular humourous book that discribed sailing on the broads as not so much 'Mucking about in boats' more like 'Boating around muck' Bit harsh, as I had a good few sails there, there is some mud involved..
    "The Art of Course Sailing" by Michael Green.. it claims to be the stories of one trip to the broads, but is actually a compendium of the sort of event that happened occasionally.. and still occasionally does..
    Just an amateur bodging away..

  15. #50
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Fitting out my little coastal cruiser leaves me limited choices because of no space. DIY compost WC, LED lights off a battery with a solar panel. Small butane two burner stove on a locker. Garden spray for shower. Depth sounder, VHF and a paper map based plotter with G 72 GPS. I did live off grid for a few years, so don't find the lack of gizmos a loss. Quite the opposite.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    "The Art of Course Sailing" by Michael Green.. it claims to be the stories of one trip to the broads, but is actually a compendium of the sort of event that happened occasionally.. and still occasionally does..
    Yes, much read and finally disintergrated on a cross channel trip.

    Always liked when he put his bowsprite through a mobo's portlight after a missed tack and wrote firmly on the ins form 'Act of God'
    Last edited by Andrew2; 01-27-2021 at 03:05 AM.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Bruce makes a good point; simple and easy aint the same thing.
    I like easy but it's not always simple. I like to sail by myself so everything runs to the cockpit. The PO had lines running all over the damn place so it took a season of farting and fiddling to get everything run to the cockpit in an orderly and organized fashion. Extra blocks, turning blocks, fairleads etc. But now I can sail the boat from the cockpit including reefing the main with two tucks.

    I posted a while ago about getting rid of the "Y" valve for the freshwater tanks. I dont want to clear off the bunk, lift the cushion, open the hatch and turn the damn handle. So two check valves. Fill the tanks and use the water.

    There's a line in Riddle of the Sands about being down below after dinner, having a smoke..everything neatly tucked away. Thats my goal.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    I wish GPS had never been invented.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    I wish GPS had never been invented.
    I'm with you there Gareth.
    A crappy celestial navigator myself, I topped out with a Bermuda landfall using Piver Noon Sights only, All I knew how to do....barely
    Sat Nav was the bomb for me..BIG buttons, a questionable fix every 2 or 4 hours. I wish it had never progressed further.
    GPS, mega yachts ...and mass produced catamarangs.....I quite hate them all.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    I remember learning how to plot a course using the RDF, pretty cool when youre ten years old. LORAN was plenty advanced for me. Wouldnt have minded if they left that in place.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Grenada anchorages looking like a shanty town, thanks to GPS.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Tough crowd tonight in regards to GPS

    Me, I like knowing where I am
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  23. #58
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Now this one is spot on..... I am 100 % in agreement .
    Len

  24. #59
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    I was just reading about how vulnerable GPS is, critical, as it is so widely used now. Here is an article in the NY Times how they are giving Loran another look - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/23/o...sultPosition=1. I've also heard that the navy is teaching celestial navigation again.

    I don't think GPS is the problem, my view is that the Internet changed it all. Once you had to ask people how to do things and swap charts to figure if it was possible to get somewhere. Now, just look it up on Google maps and its all there.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    call me old fashioned but I still plot a course on a chart. Its nice to check it with electronics to be sure but I want to know how to get there if everything goes PFFT.....

    spiral notebook and pencil, take notes, it worked for years, doesnt need batteries, just a watch and a compass

  26. #61
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    Tough crowd tonight in regards to GPS

    Me, I like knowing where I am
    I think that, if you're not rigorously committed to limiting your reliance on GPS, it quickly causes you to be LESS likely to be able to know where you are!

    There have been some interesting studies about this with land navigation--how a paper map user tends to develop a sense of the overall big picture of the landscape and terrain features, and how they fit together, while GPS users tend to develop a very linear understanding of a particular ROUTE, but without a sense of the big picture.

    I have also seen how quickly people start paying attention to their handheld GPS in small boats, rather than paying attention to the boat and their surroundings. All that data--coordinates, speed, VMG, etc.--can be very addictive.

    But when you're sailing a boat that maybe averages less than 4 knots, you really don't often need that much precision.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  27. #62
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    No GPS? I remember navigating in Lake Huron, particularly in Georgian Bay, before GPS. The part they call the 30,000 Islands should actually be called the 100,000 Reefs... Coming back in from the open water trying to find a lead-in buoy was always chancy, particularly since the cold water in LH generates fog until August. The bow could strike solid rock while the stern still had 30 ft of depth.

    GPS is a godsend when you're in a maze of trouble.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    I may have GPS, but I always have a paper chart out as well. I use GPS to measure my speed, which I can't do with a paper chart. I like to use it as a back up. I use my boat in waters that I know better well, but still look at the charts. GPS and radar are really helpful in when the fog rolls in.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  29. #64
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    No GPS? I remember navigating in Lake Huron, particularly in Georgian Bay, before GPS. The part they call the 30,000 Islands should actually be called the 100,000 Reefs... Coming back in from the open water trying to find a lead-in buoy was always chancy, particularly since the cold water in LH generates fog until August. The bow could strike solid rock while the stern still had 30 ft of depth.

    GPS is a godsend when you're in a maze of trouble.
    So is a 7" draft and a boat slow enough that it takes you a loooong time to get yourself into trouble!

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  30. #65
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    I may have GPS, but I always have a paper chart out as well. I use GPS to measure my speed, which I can't do with a paper chart. I like to use it as a back up. I use my boat in waters that I know better well, but still look at the charts. GPS and radar are really helpful in when the fog rolls in.
    Of course you can measure speed using a paper chart! Ranges, compass bearings, LOPs, fixes--these things and a watch can give you a perfectly accurate speed measurement.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  31. #66
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    I start with tide and current tables, wind forecast and charts. GPS speed over ground helps to find backeddies and reverse currents. I find this very helpful in negotiating my way in this area. / Jim

  32. #67
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Of course you can measure speed using a paper chart! Ranges, compass bearings, LOPs, fixes--these things and a watch can give you a perfectly accurate speed measurement.

    Tom
    Not as easily in a place with currents and back eddies.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  33. #68
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    It will be interesting indeed to see how my thinking about GPS evolves if I ever manage some extended cruising in tidal waters--I can certainly see how it could be very useful. I suspect a shoal-draft sail and oar boat might have less need to rely on it than larger, deeper-draft boats that might be farther from shore.

    Speed over the ground would be very handy to know when dealing with currents, and a GPS puts that information at your fingertips. On the other hand, I find a great deal of satisfaction in trying to make do with fewer gadgets. This isn't my livelihood, after all, just a relatively harmless individual pursuit that brings me personal fulfilment. So, making it too easy actually seems counter-productive for my aims.

    Few people have accused me of always making the best choices...

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  34. #69
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Years ago Woodenboat ran an article, which I think was called Wreck at Cape Ann, about a schooner piling up on a reef through a number of navigations mis-steps: buoys mis-identified, dead reckoning wrong and the like. A letter to the editor an issue or two later pointed out that a readily available GPS unit would have prevented the loss of the boat.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  35. #70
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    Default Re: When Cruising was Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    call me old fashioned but I still plot a course on a chart. Its nice to check it with electronics to be sure but I want to know how to get there if everything goes PFFT.....

    spiral notebook and pencil, take notes, it worked for years, doesnt need batteries, just a watch and a compass
    I do, too. And I do visual fixes to confirm what the GPS is telling me. I always remember the old definition of a GPS as, "A battery operated device designed to take you in complete confidence to places where batteries are not available."

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