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Thread: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

  1. #281
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    Pretty f$%ing cool. Thats a lot of sanding and varnishing you got coming......
    Look at it this way, Jordan, it's more varnishing than the cabin sides, inside and out, but not done to such a high degree. There, now I feel better.



    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post
    Having dipped into this, I just realized it is now 8 yrs since the thread started! And the OP was worried about building a mast in winter
    Such is boat building...
    Has it been that long? It's a good thing I haven't needed it yet.



    Quote Originally Posted by holzbt View Post
    Beautiful!
    Thanks, Roger.



    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    Jim, do you have to wipe down the mast with anything special to ensure that all the lipstick residue is gone and will not interfere with applying the finishes ? Looking good so far . . . .

    Rick
    So far, so good, Rick. I don't think there will be any detectable traces of lipstick left, which is the important thing. The plane takes them off quite well. After that I'm sure that the CPES will dissolve any lingering smudges, there's some powerful solvents in that stuff.


    Thanks, all.

    Jim

  2. #282
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Inflation is hitting all of us hard, what with the price of gas, plywood and steaks. And now there's a new, completely unexpected blow to my wallet.

    As the mast gets rounder the amount of lipstick required increases exponentially, simply because it's rubbing off on more and more points.

    So I stopped by the local drugstore to pick up some of my favorite shade "Midnight Regret", only to find that instead of costing ninety nine cents, as it has for years, it now costs a dollar and a half. A fifty percent increase!



    Meanwhile, here I am, still waiting for a suitable rounding plane to show up on Ebay , muddling along, doing the best I can with what's at hand...



  3. #283
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    I could be wrong but isnt smooth more important than perfectly round? Seems to me a #8 with a really, really fine cut would do the trick no?

  4. #284
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    I could be wrong but isnt smooth more important than perfectly round? Seems to me a #8 with a really, really fine cut would do the trick no?
    I haven't come this far to make a crap job of it now, Jordan. Actually, I find the woodworking problem very interesting, just how to get a perfect roundness on a thing like this. I keep turning it, marking it, going over and over it with the plane. It's easy, enjoyable work, as you can imagine. There are still flat spots and humps but they're working out.

    Once it's close I'll go to sharpening the cutter more often and setting it finer, because it's better to plane than to sand. Then I'll finish up that Bauer sanding box for the final sanding.

    You do want the mast as round as possible, so the hoops bear evenly and don't chafe through the finish on the high spots.

    Jim

  5. #285
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Sanding with 60 grit on a flexible longboard...



  6. #286
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    I was getting fed up with pushing that sand block back and forth so I hired this old gent who's been hanging around to do it for me. Gave him the 80 grit block and away he went. Amazing!



  7. #287
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    You let that crazy old guy use tools?!

  8. #288
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    You let that crazy old guy use tools?!
    Nothing sharper than sandpaper, Rob, and only when he's sober.

  9. #289
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    How do you access inside to paint it.

    Or will it be easier to seal the bottom stand it up against a wall and fill it up with preservative of choice? (See below)

    Drill small hole in side at lower end and insert a removable tap to drain.

    Drain and cap the top it may be better to pick a wall with a window at a suitable height for working on the mast top.

  10. #290
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Chippie, rather than fill with preservative ( wouldn't that take a LOT ? ) - how about rigging up a 'rifle bore cleaning brush' rig where you could swab the interior of the mast with preservative, with less waste ( cotton / terry cloth on the end of long rod )




    Rick
    Charter Member - - Professional Procrastinators Association of America - - putting things off since 1965 " I'll get around to it tomorrow, .... maybe "

  11. #291
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    [QUOTE=hawkeye54;6695143]Chippie, rather than fill with preservative ( wouldn't that take a LOT ? ) - how about rigging up a 'rifle bore cleaning brush' rig where you could swab the interior of the mast with preservative, with less waste ( cotton / terry cloth on the end of long rod )

    Yeah that would be excessive it could be kept with the rest of the come in handies though.

    Would you object if I changed the rod to 2 lengths of rope with the brush /sponge thighy tied in the middle.

    It would then be horizontal eliminating ladders and stairs and with an operative at either end of the rope and with a clearance of 40 ft either end they could run backwards and forwards pulling the sponge/thingy through speeding the job up.

    A third operator would be needed to prime the sponge/thingy.

    That would be three Operatives/80 odd feet of rope and finding a space that length to operate in.

    Have I missed anything?

  12. #292
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    If you're building a bird's mouth spar, why not just coat the inside faces of the staves with epoxy as you're gluing it up? Am I missing something obvious?

  13. #293
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Hazard View Post
    If you're building a bird's mouth spar, why not just coat the inside faces of the staves with epoxy as you're gluing it up? Am I missing something obvious?
    Exactly so, and that's just how it was done, two coats of resin were applied to the interior before the glue-up.

    And, if I might add, hollow, glued-up spars have been with us since the 1930's at least, a date which predate even the oldest among us.

    Thank you all for your valuable contributions.

    Jim

  14. #294
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Hazard View Post
    If you're building a bird's mouth spar, why not just coat the inside faces of the staves with epoxy as you're gluing it up? Am I missing something obvious?
    Chrikey I never thought of that did you hawkeye
    Last edited by Chippie; 07-15-2022 at 05:01 PM.

  15. #295
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Since Jim didn't mention the preserving of the interior when I first brought it up I've been wondering if he didn't know and was awaiting someone coming up with a solution?

    PS. Thought That epoxy was a glue not a preservative though?

    Anyway thanks Rob.
    Last edited by Chippie; 07-15-2022 at 05:03 PM. Reason: PS-d

  16. #296
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    I saw the mast. Touched it. Inspected it very closely. Itís as meticulously and well built as the rest.

    End.

  17. #297
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    Since Jim didn't mention the preserving of the interior when I first brought it up I've been wondering if he didn't know and was awaiting someone coming up with a solution?

    PS. Thought That epoxy was a glue not a preservative though?

    Anyway thanks Rob.

    In case you're not familiar with the epoxy that we use, Chippie, here's the high points.

    Epoxy is a two part mixture of a resin and a catalyst, mixed immediately before use.

    The resin as mixed, can be used as a coating, and multiple layers built up.

    There are various additives, mainly in the form of powders, that can be mixed with resin to give it various properties, and these additives can further be mixed in in varying amounts to change the viscosity of the mixture.

    For glue, you might mix in milled cotton fibers as a thickener. To make a fillet you might also add fumed silica, which makes a smoother mixture that doesn't drag so much. For a high strength mixture there is an additive, which might be used for hardware mounting. There's a few easy-sanding additives that can be used for fairing compounds.

    Although it's not a preservative, it can be used to seal the surface against water intrusion, much like paint, only better. Inside a mast, where the sun don't shine, it should be good indefinitely.

    Jim
    Last edited by Jim Ledger; 07-16-2022 at 09:52 AM.

  18. #298
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    I saw the mast. Touched it. Inspected it very closely. It’s as meticulously and well built as the rest.

    End.
    I only regret not handing you the sanding block, Rob.

    Jim

  19. #299
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Oh, I saw through your ruse. “Oh, this? This is where Rob messed up the whole thing…” Hahahaha.

    I feel very lucky to have been on site and laid hands on the project. Projects. It’s a lovely damned thing you’re doing out there.
    Last edited by amish rob; 07-16-2022 at 09:34 AM. Reason: Fix a typo… :)

  20. #300
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    ^ True, that ( lovely d... thing )

  21. #301
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    [QUOTE=Jim Ledger;6695662]In case you're not familiar with the epoxy that we use, Chippie, here's the high points.

    Epoxy is a two part mixture of a resin and a catalyst, mixed immediately before use.

    The resin as mixed, can be used as a coating, and multiple layers built up.

    There are various additives, mainly in the form of powders, that can be mixed with resin to give it various properties, and these additives can further be mixed in in varying amounts to change the viscosity of the mixture.

    For glue, you might mix in milled cotton fibers as a thickener. To make a fillet you might also add fumed silica, which makes a smoother mixture that doesn't drag so much. For a high strength mixture there is an additive, which might be used for hardware mounting. There's a few easy-sanding additives that can be used for fairing compounds.

    Although it's not a preservative, it can be used to seal the surface against water intrusion, much like paint, only better. Inside a mast, where the sun don't shine, it should be good indefinitely.

    Jim[/QUOTE.

    Thanks Jim that was very informative I hadn't a clue what epoxy consisted of.

  22. #302
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    Thanks Jim that was very informative I hadn't a clue what epoxy consisted of.

    You're welcome, Chippie.

    I should add that it's a good gap filler and requires only enough pressure to create some squeeze-out. Also, it can be used, in the unthickened state, to wet out fiberglass cloth, usually to cover plywood, such as a deck or cabin top. The cloth, in this case, acts as a reinforcement to the resin.

    Jim

  23. #303
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    You're welcome, Chippie.

    I should add that it's a good gap filler and requires only enough pressure to create some squeeze-out. Also, it can be used, in the unthickened state, to wet out fiberglass cloth, usually to cover plywood, such as a deck or cabin top. The cloth, in this case, acts as a reinforcement to the resin.

    Jim
    As it is a better adhesive than frozen snot, Lloyds specify epoxy resin when laying up repairs to GRP structures. So yes, it is an excellent laminating resin.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  24. #304
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Wait. Epoxy is frozen snot!

  25. #305
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Wait. Epoxy is frozen snot!
    I think, as opposed to the other frozen snot...polyester.
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned


  26. #306
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Wait. Epoxy is frozen snot!
    Frozen snot is bluey green, epoxy is set honey.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  27. #307
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Frozen snot is bluey green, epoxy is set honey.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/033044852...=thebookbag-21

    Nick does one apply this with a brush or a spatula?

  28. #308
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/033044852...=thebookbag-21

    Nick does one apply this with a brush or a spatula?
    Frozen snot is always brushed or applied with a roller.
    Epoxy depends on how it is thickened. A structural fillet has to be put on with a spatula. Doctors tongue depressors are good.
    For those who have not read L F Herreshoff, frozen snot was his derogatory term for polyester resin.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  29. #309
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Polyester resin is often sprayed as well, Nick, when making boat hulls. The gel coat is sprayed onto the mold. The interior plies are often bulked up with a chopper gun, which cuts and sprays swo inch pieces of chopped strand and resin simultaneously.

    The rolling that you often see being done on molds is being done with ribbed steel rollers in order to compress the laminate and remove air bubbles.

    Chippie, polyester is the resin of choice for laminated parts like boat hulls due to its lower cost. In this application it works well. However, it does not have the adhesive power of epoxy resin, so it's a poor choice for applying cloth to plywood.

    But we digress. This would make an interesting thread on its own, should anyone wish to pursue the subject further.

    Jim

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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Chrikey my knowledge IS limited.

    On reflection though I can't recall any of this fancy stuff knocking about, certainly not in my domain.

    White lead and that was it on wooden boats.

    And some of them are still knocking around.

    I am in agreeance with L F Herreshoff.
    Last edited by Chippie; 07-19-2022 at 09:13 AM.

  31. #311
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    Default Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Redacted.

    I inadvertently double posted a comment made by Jim.

    Carry on all, and, guh mornin, Mr. Ledger!

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  32. #312
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    Chrikey my knowledge IS limited.

    On reflection though I can't recall any of this fancy stuff knocking about, certainly not in my domain.

    White lead and that was it on wooden boats.

    And some of them are still knocking around.

    I am in agreeance with L F Herreshoff.

    L. F. Herreshoff lived in a time when magnificent timber was readily available at reasonable cost, as well as plenty of low-paid workers who could build and repair his yachts. if you can even find white lead today you had better be ready to part with quite a few large bills.

    It's different today and has been for quite some time.

    Oh, and another thing about old LFH, he didn't approve of folks like me owning boats, unless we were working on them, and he said so. Yachts, to him, were for the wealthy. But, he was a remarkable fellow of tremendous talent and prodigious output. He left a legacy and body of work that few could equal and we're all in his debt.




    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post

    Carry on all, and, guh mornin, Mr. Ledger!

    Kevin



    It is a good morning, Kevin. Cheers!






    Now, the plans call for copper sheathing on the mast where the gaff jaws bear. Even back when this was common practice it was controversial, as it could cause rot, should water penetrate the space between copper and mast. I'm applying two layers of six ounce cloth laid in epoxy resin.

    Here is the second layer being applied right after the first in the wet resin. It might look a little splotchy and wrinkly at this point but that gets smoothed out.



  33. #313
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    That’s a fine idea….stolen. Might you also be putting some glass at the reefs points on the mast? Even just a single layer?

  34. #314
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    Lovely as always, Jim. You might consider adding some kevlar tape where the jaws bear for greater abrasion resistance than glass.

    https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php...on-resistance/
    One of the great things about this forum is that we don't all have to accumulate the same scar tissue.
    AJ Zimm

  35. #315
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    Default Re: Making a birdsmouth catboat mast

    I guess its round and smooth enough now....

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