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Thread: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

  1. #1
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    Default Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Hi. I would love some recommendations for a very light and stable beach-launchable sailboat to build. We live near Anacortes, WA in the San Juans and the wind can really pick up through the Strait of Georgia, so sea-kindliness would be key. I'd have to haul it on a cart about 3/4 of a mile to the beach, so light weight is also important.

    -beach-launchable, and preferably well under 300lbs. all in all
    -stable as all get out
    -able to bring at least one other person
    -preferably stitch and glue
    -ideally, I'd love a cabin of some sorts (place for a porta potti, reserve buoyancy and smaller cockpit in case of a dunking)
    -any S&G kits out there that could be modified with some sort of cabin?

    This modified Welsford Houdini is the closest I've been able to find.

    http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/proje...-Houdini-7.jpg

    Alternatively, any stitch and glue boat that is very seaworthy would be great as well, something like just about any of John Welsford's designs in this weight range (Rogue, Truant, Houdini,...) I'm thinking stitch and glue because of having built a few kayaks and being comfortable with it, and a kit would be great too.

    Any suggestions you might have would be super appreciated.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Zoopster; 12-30-2013 at 07:55 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Do you mean "stable" or "seaworthy"? These are not necessarily synonyms, especially in a very, very light boat. The initial form stability that is the only way to make an ultralight 'stable as all get out' isn't going to help you at all in genuinely big waves. Zoopster, I'm afraid I have to say that I think your sub-300 lb goal for a 'seaworthy' (meaning safe for inexperienced sailors) two-person sailboat with any sort of a cabin is unreasonable. Welsford's SCAMP at 420+ is probably about as close as you are gonna get. To go any lighter, you're going to have to step up your willingness to accept more risk.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Check out Oughtred's Penny Fee. Might fit the bill with everything except the cabin. Like James pointed out, probably not going to find anything with a cabin under 300lbs.

    John

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopster View Post
    Hi. I would love some recommendations for a very light and stable beach-launchable sailboat to build. We live near Anacortes, WA in the San Juans and the wind can really pick up through the Strait of Georgia, so sea-kindliness would be key. I'd have to haul it on a cart about 3/4 of a mile to the beach, so light weight is also important.
    Is water ballast an option?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Water ballast would be great. I've been fascinated by Welsford's Scamp and adore it, but just wouldn't be able to cart it far. Another water-ballasted boat might just work.

    Some sort of cabin might very well be out of the weight range, but I'm still crossing fingers.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    The SCAMP is easily moved about my backyard on its trailer by myself even up slight hills but pushing it 3/4 of a mile on a beach would be an effort of heroic proportions. It would be a great boat to use once you got there though. Have you looked into any of those motorized trailer movers? They are something like a motorized hand cart or dolly. That could solve the problem but at what cost and whether there's one small enough and affordable enough are the questions. Good luck with your quest.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Do you mean "stable" or "seaworthy"? These are not necessarily synonyms, especially in a very, very light boat. The initial form stability that is the only way to make an ultralight 'stable as all get out' isn't going to help you at all in genuinely big waves. Zoopster, I'm afraid I have to say that I think your sub-300 lb goal for a 'seaworthy' (meaning safe for inexperienced sailors) two-person sailboat with any sort of a cabin is unreasonable. Welsford's SCAMP at 420+ is probably about as close as you are gonna get. To go any lighter, you're going to have to step up your willingness to accept more risk.
    Glad you brought it up James. Every time I suggest researching "stability" to someone wanting it and to build a boat with it.. I get jumped
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    I have a 14' flat bottom skiff that is very stable and easy to get in and out from a beach as the chines keep it from tipping. I wouldn't want to sail it in anything over 15 mph winds or a 1 ft. chop. It does feel pretty safe rowing in a little bit of a sea.
    As far as carting a 300 lb. boat if balanced well it would be doable but you would need brakes to go downhill and a friend to go up. Think about pushing a loaded wheelbarrow 3/4 of a mile and then 3/4 of a mile back. I hope you are young.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopster View Post
    I've been fascinated by Welsford's Scamp and adore it, but just wouldn't be able to cart it far. Another water-ballasted boat might just work.
    Sorry Zoopster, you are up against the implacable laws of physics. There ain't nothing with your other requirements that will be any lighter than a SCAMP. Perhaps you could look into a slip rental or investing in an old beat-up pickup for a cheap tow car? It's not that you can't get a light, small sailboat or sail & oar boat, but that you're going to have to substantially step up your game if you want to play even on the fringes of the Straits of Georgia in such a light and minimal boat.

    Honestly the only sort of boat I would want to tow for 3/4 mile by hand each way in and out would be a sub 50 lb kayak, or maybe a skin-on-frame rowboat like one of Gentry's designs. But a water ballast cabin sailboat for two? The mere weight of the materials to build it is such that you're going to be too heavy, even not counting the weight of the extra gear and stores you'll have to have along.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Beach launchable + cabin + Straight of Georgia don't seem to add up.

    For the intended cruising ground, I'd consider the Pathfinder with or without a smallish cabin. For the cart path, I'd buy a four wheeler to tow it. Not sure how you'll handle the beach, though. If anything, this entire exercise would make more sense if you based the launch and retrieval at a local boat ramp. I'm not really sure where you're located, though.

    If you wanted to skip the cabin, I bet you might be able to beach launch a Walkabout, but it would be difficult.

    Do you have a photo of the beach where you'll launch? Love to see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Man! Don't ya just hate it when James is right?

    Zoopster, I took a look at trailer movers for you but didn't see any small ones designed for beach use.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    I do like that the fellow wants to build a boat and take others sailing with him on the Strait of Georgia. You can't argue with that. It's a worthy goal.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Your own first choice, Houdini, looks as good as you'll find. As far as small, very light weight dinghies go I can't think of a designer I would have more confidence in to get it right than JW. A cloth cabin might make more sense both to keep the weight down and to be able to make it big enough to be any use for other than storage. Of course the Salish Sea deserves a lot of respect from very small boat sailors.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Gavin Atkins has a free plan for a design called Light Trow. Ben Crenshaw has be doing amazing things with one in the Mediterranean.
    http://intheboatshed.net/2010/05/18/...now-available/

    Making a canvas cuddy will meet your needs for some protection.

    His blog is here http://www.theinvisibleworkshop.blogspot.co.uk

    and book here http://www.lodestarbooks.com/?wpsc-p...talan-castaway

    Brian

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Research the rudderless, boomless ....Patin Catalan.

    it is a very old design and still much loved.

    these boats are made of plywood on frame

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Paul Fisher has dozens of light weight dinghies to look at. I especially like the coble:

    [IMG]12'6" Northumbrian Coble Particulars LOA 12'6" 3.81m Beam 4'11" 1.5m Hull Mid Depth 1'8" 0.5m Draft 6 3/4"/3' 1 1/2" 0.17/0.95m Sail Area 86 sq.ft. 8.04 sq.m Approx. Dry Weight 120 lbs 54.42 kg Hull Shape Multi chine 5 planks per side with tumblehome aft Construction Method Stitch and tape - moulds/jig also given for clinker ply Major plywood requirements for hull 5 sheets of 6mm 5 veneer exterior or marine plywood Guidance Use 3 adults rowing/motoring - 2 adults plus child sailing Drawing/Design Package 6 x A1 drawings (2 internal arrangements) + 7 x A4 instruction sheets[/IMG]
    Last edited by JimD; 12-31-2013 at 12:43 PM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    You might be able to modify a Paradox to suit your needs... But it would take a bunch of modifying.
    Steve Lewis
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    I kept a Bobcat (light plywood catboat 12 1/2 feet) on a dolly for several years. Wheeling it less than 150 feet on concrete was easy, but it was a smooth surface. Pulling it up a boat ramp took some effort. A block and tackle made it easy, but it was a pain to rig and unrig, and so I usually just muscled it up the ramp. The ramp was concrete, too. I cannot imagine pulling a more substantial boat even on good wheels up a beach without a lot of effort or some mechanical help. Doing so after pulling it 3/4 miles seems even less desirable.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    You'd want to have big tires on on any dolly, that's for sure.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    I had wheelbarrow wheels on my dolly. They were great. The big caster on the tongue, not so much
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    A JW Navigator with a cabin. Sprit boom working its advantage.



    Also check out Matt Layden's boats. They are small, water ballasted, stable, full cabins and capable.

    Ed
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 12-31-2013 at 03:41 PM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    I was just looking at these. They are made of Aircraft fuselage material and be made quite strong. 45-50 lbs.

    No cabin tho.
    PaulF

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    These are some great points and suggestions, thank you. I'd not run across Fisher's Northumbrian Coble 12'6" before and it looks to be a great boat. The Welsford Houdini, Truant, and Walkabout are still intriguing as well.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    I had wheelbarrow wheels on my dolly. They were great. The big caster on the tongue, not so much
    I use inflatable wheel barrow tires on my kayak dolly, too. Yes, they work very well on a ramp

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    The wheelbarrow wheels do sound like a great idea.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    beachable and 'very' stable and seaworthy scream catamaran
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    I think we all need to know more about the 3/4 mile trip on a cart. Flat on a paved public road, but you don't own a car? Woods road on an island without real roads? How steep? After an invigorating day's sailing on a small boat sometimes I can barely walk that far with clothes, PFD and such, never mind dragging a boat with a cabin.

    Perhaps we need to consider the land portion of the trip. If car/jeep and trailer are not an option, perhaps an old lawn tractor and a fat tired trailer to match would get to and fro as well as launch and retrieve off the beach. Then a decent sized boat is possible. If not, you are probably in the skin-on-frame/Airolite/delicate stitch-and-glue open boat category as itemized above.

    Allan
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    As they danced in the sounding sea.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    How about a CLC Northeaster Dory? Easy to cart, should be good for beach work, and can be had with either a sloop or balanced lug. A lug version has completed the Watertribe's Everglades Challenge solo (search youtube for Leatherlungs), and a young couple has made a very nice video of their "boatymoon" on a Northeaster on the Maine Islands Trail, complete with rocky islands and tides to deal with. Edit to add: this a good example of a boat with low initial stability and high ultimate stability, which is what I'm guessing you might find useful in your area.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Oz racer/ PDR derived Ocean Explorer.

    Designed by Michael Storer and Perttu Korhonen.

    Simple construction, stable, safe, cabin and it will be very light for hauling to the beach. PDR's are very popular and have completed long distance races.

    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/ko...cean_explorer/

    There is also a larger version, Oozdoose http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/ko...oose/index.htm

    A light wood trailer should be bicycle propelled easy enough.

    Ed
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 01-01-2014 at 08:05 AM.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Tinkerbelle?

    Last edited by Lewisboater; 01-01-2014 at 11:26 AM.
    Steve Lewis
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  32. #32
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Petite Elisa designed by Gilles Montaubin is a possibility

    http://chantiermer.wordpress.com/pro.../petite-elisa/

    There was a good writeup on her with pictures in WoodenBoat Magazine's Small Boats issue of 2007.
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  33. #33
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    We have a stock joke on this Forum about this sort of request, along the lines of, "costs under $200, sleeps 6 and can circumnavigate."

    My 350 lb dory skiff is a 6-8 person carry over 50 yards, even on a cart. With the specs given, a SOF boat with decks is about the only thing that may work, depending on other factors.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Email me again plz.
    Steve Lewis
    Formerly Lewisboats (don't try to change your email address!)

    http://angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Recommendations on very stable beach-launchable sailboat

    Build Scamp and buy an old lawn tractor for a few bucks. A decent lawn tractor would tow a B&B CS20 Mark 2 with water ballast with room for a berth in the cabin.
    Tom L

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