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Thread: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Signalcharlie, just found your build blog - keep working, progress is positive.
    Now that you are up to speed on the 'Moaning Chair', you need to enquire of the senior wood surgeons the protocol for the "Beer Plank" ( bit late, you are past that) and the "Whiskey Plank". One does not want to offend Poseidon!
    Cheers from Martin B.
    Mandurah, Western Australia
    mcbunny09@gmail.com

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin B. View Post
    Signalcharlie, just found your build blog - keep working, progress is positive.
    Now that you are up to speed on the 'Moaning Chair', you need to enquire of the senior wood surgeons the protocol for the "Beer Plank" ( bit late, you are past that) and the "Whiskey Plank". One does not want to offend Poseidon!

    Uh oh, never too late for beer is it? I can chainsaw off some planks if need be if I need to back up....

    Any "Beer Plank" words of wisdom out there?

    kb

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Quote Originally Posted by signalcharlie View Post
    Any "Beer Plank" words of wisdom out there?
    Never quite got into whole beer/whisky plank thing when building my Penob 17. I did enjoy a shot of Jameson after getting my boat sold. I think you have twice the pics up to the second plank than I had for the whole process. Nice job so far!

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Made some more clamps so I could work 2 scarfs at a time and working on plank 3 now.



    Hmm, can't get pics to work again, so here is link to blog til I figure it out...again....

    http://smallboatrestoration.blogspot.com/2013/12/penobscot-14-new-build-st-jacques.html

    Last edited by signalcharlie; 05-28-2017 at 10:04 PM.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Season's Greetings from Florida!



    Port plank number 3 trimmed and faired. Used it as a pattern for number 3 starboard plank then attached it with thickened epoxy and SS screws. Lightly clamped the upper stringer because it will get screws with the next plank. Also went to a 1 inch screw where it has to go through 2 layers of 6mm plywood and then into the stringer. Trimmed the plank at the transom with a mini miter saw then finished it off wit a plane iron. Put a coat of West System 105 with 207 Special Clear hardener on the transom to protect it from drips, runs and errors.








  6. #41
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Planks 5 going on.






  7. #42
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    5th row of planks epoxied and screwed. Centerboard slot cut.





    Here's a tour of the bilge so far...


  8. #43
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Whiskey plank.




  9. #44
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Congratulations!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything"

    Roosevelt, Theodore

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Attached the stem and deadwood. Started fairing,





    Fun times.


  11. #46
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    2 coats of epoxy laid down.

    Ship's Log






  12. #47
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Looking good!

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Rolled and tipped the first coat of Rustoleum Topside Oyster White back in Feb. The 1880 rowboat is getting most of our attention right now.




  14. #49
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Got the boat off the jig back in May.



    St. Jacques waiting patiently while we worked on Barbashela.



    Used painter's paper to make a pattern for Penobscot 14 "St. Jacques" centerboard, rudder and rudder head.




  15. #50
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Started sanding the interior. Disregard the sandpaper, I used the DA sander with 60 grit. Got most of the port side and the keel.

    I want to avoid stain, will this okume and cypress darken up with a sealer and varnish like some of the other P14s that we've seen here?

    I'm considering trying TotalBoat Wood Sealer Varnish Primer and Gleam Satin Spar Varnish. Or Pettit Sealer and ZSPar. If it doesn't darken a bit and smooth out, then we will paint, maybe a sandy beige.



    Our Sorg Runabout has Cetol on the interior fir plywood and mahogany trim. I like it and thought maybe it would look okay over the okume in the Penobscot.



    Tried a test spot in the bulkhead, and don't care too much for it.



    Found a nice piece of cypress left over from Barbashela for the rudder blade.



    The Skipper misses Barbashela so I made her a bow seat table using the offsets and patterns. When she's not looking maybe I'll make the other 19 feet...



    kb
    Last edited by signalcharlie; 12-05-2016 at 10:49 PM.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    The test spot looks very orange (could be my computer resolution).
    I have decided on leaving the stringers varnished but white paint on the planks. My scarfs were just not clean enough for showing off under a bright finish. I am also planning on covering all interior plywood with a veneer or Cypress which I will leave varnished to set off against the stark white interior paint.

    I have settled on Tasmanian Blackwood for my Centerboard and Rudder. It is readily available here and doesn't quite break the bank. I am drafting up the templates now - procrastinating by writing the post in fact - and will cut and laminate up the two blanks tomorrow.

    Have you started measuring for the aft seat supports yet? I lost count of how many "test" pieces I made up but the forward seat should go faster if I learn't anything at all from the mathematical gymnastics.

    Mark

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Quote Originally Posted by mwethers View Post
    The test spot looks very orange (could be my computer resolution).
    I have decided on leaving the stringers varnished but white paint on the planks. My scarfs were just not clean enough for showing off under a bright finish. I am also planning on covering all interior plywood with a veneer or Cypress which I will leave varnished to set off against the stark white interior paint.

    I have settled on Tasmanian Blackwood for my Centerboard and Rudder. It is readily available here and doesn't quite break the bank. I am drafting up the templates now - procrastinating by writing the post in fact - and will cut and laminate up the two blanks tomorrow.

    Have you started measuring for the aft seat supports yet? I lost count of how many "test" pieces I made up but the forward seat should go faster if I learn't anything at all from the mathematical gymnastics.

    Mark
    Hi Mark

    No, your computer is right, it is very orange. Possibly it would darken after several coats but I am not going to test it out on this boat.

    I am considering a two tone plank/stringer scheme as well. Maybe a Pettit Hatteras Cream or Grand Banks Beige on the planks with varnish on the cypress.



    I plan to make the thwarts, bow, side and stern seats out of cypress, so they'll be some adjustments to the measuring. Haven't ventured there yet, but plan to use Arch's tick stick method. I have a friend who has built 2 P14s and his latest got the planks and stringers repainted after the original bright finish got mildew spots. I figure I can start down the two tone plank/ stringer path, and if (when) I get paint everywhere I'll just paint it all. I like how he adapted the seats to slats, and also curved the aft side seats. Then he put flotation foam in the compartments vs trying to keep them watertight. I believe the seats are oak with mahogany inlays, and the rail cap is spanish cedar.




    Luckily I have a cypress sawmill nearby so I am trying that out.

    More pictures of Fred's Deja Vu Too on our blog Small Boat Restoration.

    kb
    Last edited by signalcharlie; 12-06-2016 at 06:03 AM.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Hi KB, my wife gives the seal of approval to the Hatteras cream so I guess I now have to look at similar.

    I saw an example where someone used ply for the seats but grooved them to look like tongue and groove which was interesting but I have the material now to try a 3mm ply base with cypress on top to see how that goes.

    Is their any advantage in using flotation compartments rather than the air sealed compartments as the plans call for - greater boyancy perhaps?

    Mark

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Quote Originally Posted by mwethers View Post
    Hi KB, my wife gives the seal of approval to the Hatteras cream so I guess I now have to look at similar.

    Is their any advantage in using flotation compartments rather than the air sealed compartments as the plans call for - greater boyancy perhaps?

    Mark
    Hi Mark
    Today's test finish has us checking out the Rustoleum Marine Coatings Topside Paint, "an oil based alkyd designed to provide a durable, abrasion and weather resistant finish on fiberglass, wood and metal boat surfaces. It offers UV protection and is easy to apply." So Sayeth Rustoleum.

    I sealed a section of the okume and cypress with their Marine Spar Varnish thinned 10% with mineral spirits. The difference in plank color is too much for my taste, so we will continue with primer and paint. The two tone plank/stringer scheme is out, way too much work.



    In Rustoleum we like the Oyster White, it is on our Sorg runabout and on the exterior of the Penobscot. It matches the Pettit Hatteras Off White. The gent who restored the Sorg hull in St. Clair likes it for the oil based qualities and our local ship carpenter likes it as well. Not sure if I'll use the Rustoleum varnish on the cypress though, I want a satin finish so I'm leaning towards Petit V-975 there or might try a sample of TotalBoat.





    As for the flotation compartments, I don't know. I plan to use extruded foam blocks up there wrapped with metal HVAC tape. I don't like the idea of those areas being inaccessible, lots of nooks and crannies around the stringer ends. Speaking of which, I wish I had sealed those stringer ends before the planks went on!

    Cheers
    Kent
    Last edited by signalcharlie; 12-06-2016 at 10:42 PM.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Which weighs more, foam blocks filling the flotation compartments, or the material to waterproof the compartments? The answer to that question is what you are asking.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Quote Originally Posted by ulav8r View Post
    Which weighs more, foam blocks filling the flotation compartments, or the material to waterproof the compartments? The answer to that question is what you are asking.
    The closed cell foam would weigh around 2 pounds per cubic foot. And provide around 60 pounds of flotation. I like my ship carpenter friend's saying that we can't keep water out, but we can keep it in. Air trapped in closed cell foam, water kept out by cubes of foam, my lack of surety that my compartments would stay watertight and ease of maintenance tip the scales for me towards using foam flotation. And a PFD

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Cut out the rudder parts and centerboard out of cypress today. Still need to plane the centerboard down to 3/4 inch. Glued up some okume for the top panels of the rudder cheek. Dry fit the middle seat.


  23. #58
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Cleaned up the rudder cheek and made the centerboard case. Trimmed the centerboard slot. Planed the rudder and centerboard to 3/4 inches. First two sealer coats of thinned varnish.



    Still have some shaping to do.



    Swing check.



    Log of St. Jacques

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    One thing I did to the CB, before shaping the edges, was to reinforce the corner where the dowel handle will go at the top front corner. It's easier to do when the edges are still square. I can't remember if I did it on the table saw or used a slotting cutter on the router. In any case, I removed some of the wood where the handle will be, from the centre of the thickness of the board, and filled it back in with a piece with the grain running more or less perpendicular to the board's grain, in effect creating 3-ply plywood locally. But then the whole thing was covered with fibreglass anyway so it was probably overkill.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Quote Originally Posted by RowAndSail View Post
    One thing I did to the CB, before shaping the edges, was to reinforce the corner where the dowel handle will go at the top front corner.........
    Great idea, I might do that or I could drill in from the leading edge 3-4 inches and put in a #10 screw or dowel, similar to how they reinforce Sunfish rudders that were prone to grainwise splits.

    Kent

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Shaped the centerboard and trimmed the rudder to fit.



    Started paint. Not sure if the inner transom panel will stay bright. The planks, stringers and bulkheads will be Oyster White. The seats, centerboard cap, seat supports and rail cap will be varnished cypress. Rudder head and transom varnished okume. Rudder cypress.



    FMI: St. Jacques Log

    Cheers
    Kent

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Quote Originally Posted by signalcharlie View Post
    Great idea, I might do that or I could drill in from the leading edge 3-4 inches and put in a #10 screw or dowel, similar to how they reinforce Sunfish rudders that were prone to grainwise splits.

    Kent
    Great idea! Would've been easier and faster than the spline

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    ADD Alert: Picked up a nice Penobscot 17, because we didn't have one....Built by Turner Matthews and finished out by Bob Pitt. Y'all saw her as Junie Jump Up at the Small Reach Regatta and several Gulf Coast events, and then as Ransom II under Doug Engh's guidance. She is now named Hanna and will keep an eye on St. Jacques.



    Junie Jump Up







    FMI: Hannah
    Last edited by signalcharlie; 01-14-2017 at 05:11 AM.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Hi Kent

    I am jealous of your new 17 - lots of distractions from building i'm thinking.

    I am sure that at this time of the year we should be sitting in the air conditioning with a amber ale (for the aussies at least) rather than in a hot shed staring over and over at a pile of wood and plans but that is what I am up to.

    In you photo's of the centerboard case above you have the bottom of the board level with the bottom of the case sides. I interpret the plans differently and think that the board sits flush with the bottom edge of the keel. I don't know which is the better way and default to the plans. Am I interpreting the plans right or is there a logical reason to your version?

    Mark


  30. #65
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Quote Originally Posted by mwethers View Post
    Hi Kent

    I am jealous of your new 17 - lots of distractions from building i'm thinking.

    In you photo's of the centerboard case above you have the bottom of the board level with the bottom of the case sides. I interpret the plans differently and think that the board sits flush with the bottom edge of the keel. I don't know which is the better way and default to the plans. Am I interpreting the plans right or is there a logical reason to your version?

    Mark

    As for the P17 Hannah, she's a pretty boat, we love the classic look of the balanced lug rig but she is narrow and shallow. Attributes in many ways but a surprising minimal amount of cockpit space, interrupted by thwarts and cb case. We are spoiled by our O'Day Daysailer cockpit space. But the Daysailer weighs close to 800 while the P17 is around 300. And she actually has been on a few raids and has a lot of trailer miles under her keel, travelled to Maine for the Small Reach Regatta and St Michaels, MD for the Mid Atlantic Small Craft Festival and Cedar Key plus many others. So question is which boat would be used more? All we have done is rig her so far, while previous owners sailed her all over the place. We have the luxury of water, ramp and space at our back door so we get to mess about with several boats ranging from 10 feet up to 19. I think the P17 cockpit seat/thwart set up will make more sense once we row/sail her.



    Your interpretation is correct. I have not finalized the placement of the pivot bolt yet, but i might leave a small gap to make sure the cb does not sag and rub on the trailer bunk or on the beach, and ensure I get the top clearance for the dowel handle over the cb cap as well. One other solution to "cb sag" is to put a pin through the top part of the cb case and board to hold it up. My friend did that, not sure why, if it was a trailer thing, boat show bling thing, beach thing or he rows a lot and didn't want lines/bungee etc...



    More pictures of Fred's beautiful P14 Deja Vu Too

    Cheers
    Kent
    Last edited by signalcharlie; 12-23-2016 at 07:01 AM.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Thanks for clarifying Kent.

    The centerboard is doing my head in a little bit as I know fit is ultra critical for leaks etc and cross matching the board measurements with the case measurements has been a bit confusing at times. Like you I was also worried about the sag on the bottom when it came to getting it on and off a trailer which is why I asked in the first place - thought you had a better solution I could copy.
    Before I cut into my marine ply I will mock it up in cheap ply and see how it all fits together.

    Mark

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Used the plywood sides as guides. Cut the supports long, screwed then from inside and trimmed close to fit. Finished with DA sander.



    Skipper worked on another moaning chair and left me unsupervised while I cut the upper support wrong.



    The case cap support is supposed to stick out 1 1/2 inches, not run down 1 1/2 inches...



    I put one side together and thought, hmm that doesn't look correct. Turns out I had cut the case cap support with the 3/4 inch and 1 1/2 inch dimensions flipped. It should be wider across the top. Left case side is correct, right side is wrong.



    Thickened epoxy and silicone bronze screws hold it together. Cleaned inside seam of excess epoxy with a paint stick.



    Dry fit.



    FMI: St. Jacques Log
    Last edited by signalcharlie; 01-14-2017 at 05:17 AM.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Centerboard case epoxied and screwed. Working on seat fit and case cap.Port side primed, starboard side sealed. Maybe I'll leave it like this...



    Log of St. Jacques

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    It's a nice look! ;P

    Really, it looks great.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Penobscot 14 St Jacques New Build

    Middle seat and case cap installed. Working on slatted side seat, deviating from plan a bit. Plans call for a solid seat with a straight inner edge. We are also going to have access to the bow and stern compartments from the top, and use XPS foam in the compartments and fenders lashed under seats for desired flotation. Fenders will be handy as beach roller as well.





    Primed with Rust-Oleum Marine Wood and Fiberglass Primer.





    Happy New Year!
    Kent and Audrey

    Log of St. Jacques

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