hello all,
does anyone know where i can find enough green heart wood to sheath an 88' schooner for an arctic trip? also if anyone has a ballpark figure for the cost it would be greatly appreciated, thanks
m0sey
hello all,
does anyone know where i can find enough green heart wood to sheath an 88' schooner for an arctic trip? also if anyone has a ballpark figure for the cost it would be greatly appreciated, thanks
m0sey
hello all,
does anyone know where i can find enough green heart wood to sheath an 88' schooner for an arctic trip? also if anyone has a ballpark figure for the cost it would be greatly appreciated, thanks
m0sey
hello all,
does anyone know where i can find enough green heart wood to sheath an 88' schooner for an arctic trip? also if anyone has a ballpark figure for the cost it would be greatly appreciated, thanks
m0sey
Are you trying to avoid being crushed or having floating ice chew up the surface of your hull? I think I'd look at steel. It's cheap and when you're back you can recycle it.
[This message has been edited by TomRobb (edited 10-18-2000).]
Are you trying to avoid being crushed or having floating ice chew up the surface of your hull? I think I'd look at steel. It's cheap and when you're back you can recycle it.
[This message has been edited by TomRobb (edited 10-18-2000).]
Are you trying to avoid being crushed or having floating ice chew up the surface of your hull? I think I'd look at steel. It's cheap and when you're back you can recycle it.
[This message has been edited by TomRobb (edited 10-18-2000).]
i want to prent the damage from the ice chewing up the hull. when the vessel orignally went north she had the greenheart sheathing, and wintered over a couple of times. Since she is now a national historic landmark, we need to be historically accurate
i want to prent the damage from the ice chewing up the hull. when the vessel orignally went north she had the greenheart sheathing, and wintered over a couple of times. Since she is now a national historic landmark, we need to be historically accurate
i want to prent the damage from the ice chewing up the hull. when the vessel orignally went north she had the greenheart sheathing, and wintered over a couple of times. Since she is now a national historic landmark, we need to be historically accurate
Call John Buchanan " woods Unlimited" 510-895-5266,near the Oakland airport.He had some green heart milled for truck decking (5/4 by 8 inch T&G)Mostly he stocks purple heart and apiting for the truck and trailer trade but also has large timbers and imports all kinds of different woods.Good Prices and very cool person.
Call John Buchanan " woods Unlimited" 510-895-5266,near the Oakland airport.He had some green heart milled for truck decking (5/4 by 8 inch T&G)Mostly he stocks purple heart and apiting for the truck and trailer trade but also has large timbers and imports all kinds of different woods.Good Prices and very cool person.
Call John Buchanan " woods Unlimited" 510-895-5266,near the Oakland airport.He had some green heart milled for truck decking (5/4 by 8 inch T&G)Mostly he stocks purple heart and apiting for the truck and trailer trade but also has large timbers and imports all kinds of different woods.Good Prices and very cool person.
Takeing any vessel into Artic waters is a crapshoot at best. I belive that takeing a historic vessel up there constitutes an irresponsible act.
Takeing any vessel into Artic waters is a crapshoot at best. I belive that takeing a historic vessel up there constitutes an irresponsible act.
Takeing any vessel into Artic waters is a crapshoot at best. I belive that takeing a historic vessel up there constitutes an irresponsible act.
Senior Member
Wow sounds like something along the lines of the Effie M. Morissey now the Ernestina or the Schooner Bowdoin. Details man give us some details!
What is her name?
where are you located?
Senior Member
Wow sounds like something along the lines of the Effie M. Morissey now the Ernestina or the Schooner Bowdoin. Details man give us some details!
What is her name?
where are you located?
Senior Member
Wow sounds like something along the lines of the Effie M. Morissey now the Ernestina or the Schooner Bowdoin. Details man give us some details!
What is her name?
where are you located?
details...
It is the Bowdoin, right now i'm casting about for ideas to get her north again, she's now at Maine Maritime Academy up in Castine Maine. The Academy is at the moment both saying that she is the centerpiece of one of our majors, yet at the same time they are firing her crew, in the last 8 years a grand total of 10 or so Maine Maritime Students have sailed on her in the summer. I'm working on a plan to get as many as 25 students on her in parts of a voyage as far north as greenland and doing some scientific research on the way home. the trip should take three months or so, and at the moment, the greenheart sheathing i a mute point because i don't think we'll be getting that far north given our amount of time available. anyone out there know of any potential sponsors either money or in kind donations? the school is more likely to say yes to the trip the less they have to pay. thanks
m0sey
details...
It is the Bowdoin, right now i'm casting about for ideas to get her north again, she's now at Maine Maritime Academy up in Castine Maine. The Academy is at the moment both saying that she is the centerpiece of one of our majors, yet at the same time they are firing her crew, in the last 8 years a grand total of 10 or so Maine Maritime Students have sailed on her in the summer. I'm working on a plan to get as many as 25 students on her in parts of a voyage as far north as greenland and doing some scientific research on the way home. the trip should take three months or so, and at the moment, the greenheart sheathing i a mute point because i don't think we'll be getting that far north given our amount of time available. anyone out there know of any potential sponsors either money or in kind donations? the school is more likely to say yes to the trip the less they have to pay. thanks
m0sey
details...
It is the Bowdoin, right now i'm casting about for ideas to get her north again, she's now at Maine Maritime Academy up in Castine Maine. The Academy is at the moment both saying that she is the centerpiece of one of our majors, yet at the same time they are firing her crew, in the last 8 years a grand total of 10 or so Maine Maritime Students have sailed on her in the summer. I'm working on a plan to get as many as 25 students on her in parts of a voyage as far north as greenland and doing some scientific research on the way home. the trip should take three months or so, and at the moment, the greenheart sheathing i a mute point because i don't think we'll be getting that far north given our amount of time available. anyone out there know of any potential sponsors either money or in kind donations? the school is more likely to say yes to the trip the less they have to pay. thanks
m0sey
Granted that any ship that can't pay her own way is an economic albatross, why are they firing the crew? Malfeasance, incompetence, too expensive? Wants do tend toward infinite and means all too finite. Maybe the school is the wrong place for her. Perhaps as part of the Maine schooner dude charter fleet she could earn her way and be kept up. Voluntary donations or a sugar daddy, it seems to me, are one of the last steps to the end of the road. You can't count on them. Find her a day job or become resigned to her death.
[This message has been edited by TomRobb (edited 10-25-2000).]
Granted that any ship that can't pay her own way is an economic albatross, why are they firing the crew? Malfeasance, incompetence, too expensive? Wants do tend toward infinite and means all too finite. Maybe the school is the wrong place for her. Perhaps as part of the Maine schooner dude charter fleet she could earn her way and be kept up. Voluntary donations or a sugar daddy, it seems to me, are one of the last steps to the end of the road. You can't count on them. Find her a day job or become resigned to her death.
[This message has been edited by TomRobb (edited 10-25-2000).]
Granted that any ship that can't pay her own way is an economic albatross, why are they firing the crew? Malfeasance, incompetence, too expensive? Wants do tend toward infinite and means all too finite. Maybe the school is the wrong place for her. Perhaps as part of the Maine schooner dude charter fleet she could earn her way and be kept up. Voluntary donations or a sugar daddy, it seems to me, are one of the last steps to the end of the road. You can't count on them. Find her a day job or become resigned to her death.
[This message has been edited by TomRobb (edited 10-25-2000).]
Senior Member
Mosey-----
I sympathize with your aims. Classic vessels, like classic cars, are built to be RUN. If it's done right, they are better off for it too.
My parents sailed on the Bowdoin for a week or so a year or two ago: an Audubon Society sponsored event, I think.
Does the MMA support the crew and upkeep by arranging for such charters? Have bookings fallen off, resulting in the dismissal of the crew?
Sometimes it's difficult for non-profits to long employ the sort of agressive entrepreneur it takes to sell such bookings successfully.
Is there anything the participants in this forum might do to help? Use your imagination; I for one will be happy to do what I can.
Alan
Senior Member
Mosey-----
I sympathize with your aims. Classic vessels, like classic cars, are built to be RUN. If it's done right, they are better off for it too.
My parents sailed on the Bowdoin for a week or so a year or two ago: an Audubon Society sponsored event, I think.
Does the MMA support the crew and upkeep by arranging for such charters? Have bookings fallen off, resulting in the dismissal of the crew?
Sometimes it's difficult for non-profits to long employ the sort of agressive entrepreneur it takes to sell such bookings successfully.
Is there anything the participants in this forum might do to help? Use your imagination; I for one will be happy to do what I can.
Alan
Senior Member
Mosey-----
I sympathize with your aims. Classic vessels, like classic cars, are built to be RUN. If it's done right, they are better off for it too.
My parents sailed on the Bowdoin for a week or so a year or two ago: an Audubon Society sponsored event, I think.
Does the MMA support the crew and upkeep by arranging for such charters? Have bookings fallen off, resulting in the dismissal of the crew?
Sometimes it's difficult for non-profits to long employ the sort of agressive entrepreneur it takes to sell such bookings successfully.
Is there anything the participants in this forum might do to help? Use your imagination; I for one will be happy to do what I can.
Alan
Senior Member
Sorry to hear this... Bowdoin deserves better. Some folks went to a lot of time and expense to "save" her just a few years ago. I've always had a soft spot for her. She was designed and built by by the same folks who were behind my first schooner, (Wm. Hand/Hodgon Bros) and McMillan was from my home town. The first time she was "saved", they sailed her back to P-town in time for the admiral to step out on his porch to see her arrive one last time. (He died a few weeks later...) I got a chance to help deliver her from a winter layover in Baltimore to St. Michaels back in the eighties... But she seems a a "lucky" ship... Always somebody who cares enough for her to keep her going. Perhaps you are the one now? Still, it seems that if the folks at Mystic, Jim Sharp, the college and the acadamy ALL have failed to make her pay, getting the kind of funding needed to keep her operational is going to be tough. Seems silly to me to see all these "re-creations" being built (and needing support...) when so many fine, significant vessels are still around and at least in Bowdoin's case, in such good shape and going begging for a "mission". Do we really need yet ANOTHER Bluenose or America when poor Bowdoin sits idle at the dock?
Senior Member
Sorry to hear this... Bowdoin deserves better. Some folks went to a lot of time and expense to "save" her just a few years ago. I've always had a soft spot for her. She was designed and built by by the same folks who were behind my first schooner, (Wm. Hand/Hodgon Bros) and McMillan was from my home town. The first time she was "saved", they sailed her back to P-town in time for the admiral to step out on his porch to see her arrive one last time. (He died a few weeks later...) I got a chance to help deliver her from a winter layover in Baltimore to St. Michaels back in the eighties... But she seems a a "lucky" ship... Always somebody who cares enough for her to keep her going. Perhaps you are the one now? Still, it seems that if the folks at Mystic, Jim Sharp, the college and the acadamy ALL have failed to make her pay, getting the kind of funding needed to keep her operational is going to be tough. Seems silly to me to see all these "re-creations" being built (and needing support...) when so many fine, significant vessels are still around and at least in Bowdoin's case, in such good shape and going begging for a "mission". Do we really need yet ANOTHER Bluenose or America when poor Bowdoin sits idle at the dock?
Senior Member
Sorry to hear this... Bowdoin deserves better. Some folks went to a lot of time and expense to "save" her just a few years ago. I've always had a soft spot for her. She was designed and built by by the same folks who were behind my first schooner, (Wm. Hand/Hodgon Bros) and McMillan was from my home town. The first time she was "saved", they sailed her back to P-town in time for the admiral to step out on his porch to see her arrive one last time. (He died a few weeks later...) I got a chance to help deliver her from a winter layover in Baltimore to St. Michaels back in the eighties... But she seems a a "lucky" ship... Always somebody who cares enough for her to keep her going. Perhaps you are the one now? Still, it seems that if the folks at Mystic, Jim Sharp, the college and the acadamy ALL have failed to make her pay, getting the kind of funding needed to keep her operational is going to be tough. Seems silly to me to see all these "re-creations" being built (and needing support...) when so many fine, significant vessels are still around and at least in Bowdoin's case, in such good shape and going begging for a "mission". Do we really need yet ANOTHER Bluenose or America when poor Bowdoin sits idle at the dock?
Senior Member
MoSey,
I have to ask where you are getting your info from for starters. She has been a busy little bee, doing the tall ship thing this past summer. I can't remember how long it has been exactly, but she has gone north twice within the last ten years. As far as I know Elliot Rappaport who is her captain is full time faculty at the academy and every large traditional boat lays off most of their crew for the winter unless they are heading south. Every vessel I have ever worked on has done that. Sailing aboard "tall ships" is mostly seasonal work. We in the business know this and don't expect to be employed year round aboard the same vessel. Usually the only people that are, are the Master and Chief Mate. Talk to Elliot and find out the info.
Jonathan
Senior Member
MoSey,
I have to ask where you are getting your info from for starters. She has been a busy little bee, doing the tall ship thing this past summer. I can't remember how long it has been exactly, but she has gone north twice within the last ten years. As far as I know Elliot Rappaport who is her captain is full time faculty at the academy and every large traditional boat lays off most of their crew for the winter unless they are heading south. Every vessel I have ever worked on has done that. Sailing aboard "tall ships" is mostly seasonal work. We in the business know this and don't expect to be employed year round aboard the same vessel. Usually the only people that are, are the Master and Chief Mate. Talk to Elliot and find out the info.
Jonathan
Senior Member
MoSey,
I have to ask where you are getting your info from for starters. She has been a busy little bee, doing the tall ship thing this past summer. I can't remember how long it has been exactly, but she has gone north twice within the last ten years. As far as I know Elliot Rappaport who is her captain is full time faculty at the academy and every large traditional boat lays off most of their crew for the winter unless they are heading south. Every vessel I have ever worked on has done that. Sailing aboard "tall ships" is mostly seasonal work. We in the business know this and don't expect to be employed year round aboard the same vessel. Usually the only people that are, are the Master and Chief Mate. Talk to Elliot and find out the info.
Jonathan
hopefully this will fill in some of the blanks in information.....
First to TomRobb
The situation is this: The Academy has notified the crews of two academy vessels, the Argo, an 80' research vessel, and the Bowdoin, that the four of them will be fired at the end of November, three of them will be hired back shortly after, two masters and one Mate. They will no longer be tied specifically to one vessel or the other. Presently the Bowdoin, being the wooden vessel that she is, is keeping her three full time crew busy (the engineer stayed on later in the season this year) as well as the 6 or so work study students with mandatory maintenance, i don't understand how one and a half full time people can keep up with the same work load, something will work out though i guess. The Bowdoin as she is set up now wouldn't be able to work in The windjammer trade. currently she is set up with bunks, to work as a windjammer she would need to be retrofit with cabins among other things, besides she should be involved with education of some type, that i how she was conceived. If the school reevaluated how they were using her, she could be used in a way fitting her original mission, education and training of young adults.
To Alan Hyde
The Crew are currently seasonal, about eight months out of the year, but they have long term employment contracts with the school. Elliot Rapppaport has been involved with the Bowdoin, first as 1st mate then as Captain since 1989. Heather Stone has been the first mast for the last four years. Since the Vessel first arrived at the academy in the fall of 1988, the vessel's use has slowly been shifted from education during the summer to outside charters for profit. At least during the school season, mostly fall, she has been used often for classes and labs. To Art Read
To me and many of the faculty and students at the academy, making the Bowdoin pay is not the issue. Making her available to academy students is. After all, she is the Bowdoin, Maine's official tall ship, and an icon of the north. For most of her life Bowdoin has been about education and should continue to be so. At the moment, the Bowdoin i still on solid ground financially and crew wise, though that may soon change.
And to Jonathan Kabak
I am a Sophomore in the SVO program at Maine Maritime Academy. I have sailed professionally for four summers on traditionally rigged sailing vessels, both schoooners and square riggers. I have sailed as a deckhand on every overnight trip the Bowdoin has done this fall. I average 11 hours a week working work study on her. She has gone north, at least as far as Laborador and as far as Greenland in '91, '92, '94, and i believe '99. Since the '92 trip she has been chartered by various outside organizations so only one or at most two MMA students get to enjoy her during the summer. Granted, the first mate and Master are seasonal postions (they get about four months off during the winter) they have long term contracts with the school.
To all
if you would like to let the president of the school know how you feel he can be reached at ltyler@bell.mma.edu
The Bowdoin is not yet "idle at the dock". While some outside programs are beneficial to the school and boat, she should be used primarily to help train MMA students. Thank you for your positive feedback and questions
m0sey
[This message has been edited by m0sey (edited 10-30-2000).]
hopefully this will fill in some of the blanks in information.....
First to TomRobb
The situation is this: The Academy has notified the crews of two academy vessels, the Argo, an 80' research vessel, and the Bowdoin, that the four of them will be fired at the end of November, three of them will be hired back shortly after, two masters and one Mate. They will no longer be tied specifically to one vessel or the other. Presently the Bowdoin, being the wooden vessel that she is, is keeping her three full time crew busy (the engineer stayed on later in the season this year) as well as the 6 or so work study students with mandatory maintenance, i don't understand how one and a half full time people can keep up with the same work load, something will work out though i guess. The Bowdoin as she is set up now wouldn't be able to work in The windjammer trade. currently she is set up with bunks, to work as a windjammer she would need to be retrofit with cabins among other things, besides she should be involved with education of some type, that i how she was conceived. If the school reevaluated how they were using her, she could be used in a way fitting her original mission, education and training of young adults.
To Alan Hyde
The Crew are currently seasonal, about eight months out of the year, but they have long term employment contracts with the school. Elliot Rapppaport has been involved with the Bowdoin, first as 1st mate then as Captain since 1989. Heather Stone has been the first mast for the last four years. Since the Vessel first arrived at the academy in the fall of 1988, the vessel's use has slowly been shifted from education during the summer to outside charters for profit. At least during the school season, mostly fall, she has been used often for classes and labs. To Art Read
To me and many of the faculty and students at the academy, making the Bowdoin pay is not the issue. Making her available to academy students is. After all, she is the Bowdoin, Maine's official tall ship, and an icon of the north. For most of her life Bowdoin has been about education and should continue to be so. At the moment, the Bowdoin i still on solid ground financially and crew wise, though that may soon change.
And to Jonathan Kabak
I am a Sophomore in the SVO program at Maine Maritime Academy. I have sailed professionally for four summers on traditionally rigged sailing vessels, both schoooners and square riggers. I have sailed as a deckhand on every overnight trip the Bowdoin has done this fall. I average 11 hours a week working work study on her. She has gone north, at least as far as Laborador and as far as Greenland in '91, '92, '94, and i believe '99. Since the '92 trip she has been chartered by various outside organizations so only one or at most two MMA students get to enjoy her during the summer. Granted, the first mate and Master are seasonal postions (they get about four months off during the winter) they have long term contracts with the school.
To all
if you would like to let the president of the school know how you feel he can be reached at ltyler@bell.mma.edu
The Bowdoin is not yet "idle at the dock". While some outside programs are beneficial to the school and boat, she should be used primarily to help train MMA students. Thank you for your positive feedback and questions
m0sey
[This message has been edited by m0sey (edited 10-30-2000).]
hopefully this will fill in some of the blanks in information.....
First to TomRobb
The situation is this: The Academy has notified the crews of two academy vessels, the Argo, an 80' research vessel, and the Bowdoin, that the four of them will be fired at the end of November, three of them will be hired back shortly after, two masters and one Mate. They will no longer be tied specifically to one vessel or the other. Presently the Bowdoin, being the wooden vessel that she is, is keeping her three full time crew busy (the engineer stayed on later in the season this year) as well as the 6 or so work study students with mandatory maintenance, i don't understand how one and a half full time people can keep up with the same work load, something will work out though i guess. The Bowdoin as she is set up now wouldn't be able to work in The windjammer trade. currently she is set up with bunks, to work as a windjammer she would need to be retrofit with cabins among other things, besides she should be involved with education of some type, that i how she was conceived. If the school reevaluated how they were using her, she could be used in a way fitting her original mission, education and training of young adults.
To Alan Hyde
The Crew are currently seasonal, about eight months out of the year, but they have long term employment contracts with the school. Elliot Rapppaport has been involved with the Bowdoin, first as 1st mate then as Captain since 1989. Heather Stone has been the first mast for the last four years. Since the Vessel first arrived at the academy in the fall of 1988, the vessel's use has slowly been shifted from education during the summer to outside charters for profit. At least during the school season, mostly fall, she has been used often for classes and labs. To Art Read
To me and many of the faculty and students at the academy, making the Bowdoin pay is not the issue. Making her available to academy students is. After all, she is the Bowdoin, Maine's official tall ship, and an icon of the north. For most of her life Bowdoin has been about education and should continue to be so. At the moment, the Bowdoin i still on solid ground financially and crew wise, though that may soon change.
And to Jonathan Kabak
I am a Sophomore in the SVO program at Maine Maritime Academy. I have sailed professionally for four summers on traditionally rigged sailing vessels, both schoooners and square riggers. I have sailed as a deckhand on every overnight trip the Bowdoin has done this fall. I average 11 hours a week working work study on her. She has gone north, at least as far as Laborador and as far as Greenland in '91, '92, '94, and i believe '99. Since the '92 trip she has been chartered by various outside organizations so only one or at most two MMA students get to enjoy her during the summer. Granted, the first mate and Master are seasonal postions (they get about four months off during the winter) they have long term contracts with the school.
To all
if you would like to let the president of the school know how you feel he can be reached at ltyler@bell.mma.edu
The Bowdoin is not yet "idle at the dock". While some outside programs are beneficial to the school and boat, she should be used primarily to help train MMA students. Thank you for your positive feedback and questions
m0sey
[This message has been edited by m0sey (edited 10-30-2000).]
Man, I feel your pain. Sort of. But my comments still stand, I think. If she can't pay her way, that is if she isn't an economic asset, she will come to be seen as a cost, a liability, and sooner or later get less and less use and maintanance then ultimately she will die. We all do. Ships, people, nations, stars, we're all finite. She needs a day job. She needs the sort of aggressive selling mentioned above. Perhaps you're the one to do that. But you MAY need to let the education angle go. Everybody justifys their passion as being for the good of mankind. It gets old and wears a bit thin. You can't even get the good citizens of most towns to vote for their public schools support unless football or basketball is threatened. You may need to think in wider circles, bigger boxes. For instance, why would cabins be needed? A younger crowd might like the fo'c'sl atmosphere as opposed to the down home style Love Boat thing.
She needs a day job. You put her to work.
Man, I feel your pain. Sort of. But my comments still stand, I think. If she can't pay her way, that is if she isn't an economic asset, she will come to be seen as a cost, a liability, and sooner or later get less and less use and maintanance then ultimately she will die. We all do. Ships, people, nations, stars, we're all finite. She needs a day job. She needs the sort of aggressive selling mentioned above. Perhaps you're the one to do that. But you MAY need to let the education angle go. Everybody justifys their passion as being for the good of mankind. It gets old and wears a bit thin. You can't even get the good citizens of most towns to vote for their public schools support unless football or basketball is threatened. You may need to think in wider circles, bigger boxes. For instance, why would cabins be needed? A younger crowd might like the fo'c'sl atmosphere as opposed to the down home style Love Boat thing.
She needs a day job. You put her to work.
Man, I feel your pain. Sort of. But my comments still stand, I think. If she can't pay her way, that is if she isn't an economic asset, she will come to be seen as a cost, a liability, and sooner or later get less and less use and maintanance then ultimately she will die. We all do. Ships, people, nations, stars, we're all finite. She needs a day job. She needs the sort of aggressive selling mentioned above. Perhaps you're the one to do that. But you MAY need to let the education angle go. Everybody justifys their passion as being for the good of mankind. It gets old and wears a bit thin. You can't even get the good citizens of most towns to vote for their public schools support unless football or basketball is threatened. You may need to think in wider circles, bigger boxes. For instance, why would cabins be needed? A younger crowd might like the fo'c'sl atmosphere as opposed to the down home style Love Boat thing.
She needs a day job. You put her to work.
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