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Thread: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg


  2. #52
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg


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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg


  4. #54
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg


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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg


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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg


  7. #57
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    nice comparison of Ilur and Creizic rowing home


  8. #58
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Creizic doesn't compare to Ilur very well, at least to my eye. I had been admiring the design too, right up to the last picture.
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Huge dif in weight. one about half the other, so it's good you could see the dif.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Looks like that last picture was probably taken with a telephoto lens, which will bring the aft boat forward in a way that doesn't do justice to the amount of space between the boats...and therefor distorts the comparison. There's an eye thing going on there that actually makes it less useful for comparison, I think. Can't speak to it on technical terms, maybe someone else can.

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Ilur light weight 245kg

    http://www.vivierboats.com/en/product/clinker-kit-ilur/

    Creizic hull weight 108kg , fully rigged 140kg.

    http://www.vivierboats.com/en/creizic-for-sale/

    So, if you launch from tow car and weight no issue, Ilur is fine, however her weight at 245kg, is too heavy to be launched comfortably from a trolley from a dinghy park as we typically launch from Keyhaven dinghy park. The lighter Creizic really helps that process, of being able to handle, move, and put her away, after sailing, when using only a trolley.

    Brian

  12. #62
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    Looks like that last picture was probably taken with a telephoto lens, which will bring the aft boat forward in a way that doesn't do justice to the amount of space between the boats...and therefor distorts the comparison. There's an eye thing going on there that actually makes it less useful for comparison, I think. Can't speak to it on technical terms, maybe someone else can.
    I matched their scale - obviously it's not accurate to any actual size difference, and i can't speak to whether the shape comparison is accurate either but it might help


  13. #63
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Didn't mean to send you guys too far down the rabbit hole with my not very well expressed comment.

    I'm sure both boats are fine for their intended purpose (Mr Vivier is quite talented) what I was trying to convey was that "I" find Ilur to be a much better looking boat than Creizic.
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  14. #64
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    To my eye, the Ilur has more freeboard and much firmer bilges, and is a much bigger boat volumetrically. Compare this image to the one in post #55:

    [/URL]

  15. #65
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    John, Ed really prefers Ilur, just concerned about this issue of launching at Keyhaven using a trolley. Pulling her out of the water is a stuggle - we owned a Cornish Cormorant about the same weight and one pal can manage, another has to use the car. Ed is wondering if by building an Ilur as light as possible, ie making each choice the lighter weight might work. Any idea what such a weight an Ilur might be?

    Obviously a Creizic solves the launch weight problem, perhaps not as well defined plank lines etc, but still a very nice design, and many good features.

    Brian

  16. #66
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Brian, I haven't ever weighed Waxwing, but I know she would be too heavy to hand launch by trolley! On my modestly sloped gravel dooryard I can manouver her on a trailer with a dolly, but only just. Aesthetically, I also prefer lapstrakes to multichined stitch and tape hull shapes, but I'd guess the biggest functional difference between the two boats would be the half decks of the Creizic--they'd give you a moment of grace when hit by a hard puff before the boat started to take a sip, but they would also inhibit the ability to sit on the floorboards, leaning against the curve of the hull, ensconced down low in a most comfortable and stable spot....here, a frame grab from an Off Center Harbor video where Waxwing got a brief cameo appearance:

    [/URL]

  17. #67
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    http://voileaviron.org/wp/wp-content...in_FVA_n16.pdf

    could someone translate page 6 and 7 from french to english please, thanks.

    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 01-15-2017 at 08:43 AM.

  18. #68
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg


  19. #69
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Google Translate is your friend! (Translation may not be perfect, but close I hope, and there may be a couple of photo captions included in the text so watch out for them).

    Edit: I should have read the translation before I posted it! Hopefully you can make it through some of the mis-translated words. Personally, I've always liked a boat with a "well rounded brion"

    Bill

    By François Vivier, naval architect
    Creizic is a sail-rowing designed to meet the
    Contest launched in 2011 by the Chasse-Marée and
    The Village Bois du Grand-Pavois "a plan to navigate
    lightweight". The first sailing-rowing I drew there
    30 years were inspired by traditional boats,
    Robust, with frames reminiscent of the
    Old building techniques, flooring
    Solid wood, many benches ... This results in a beautiful
    Authenticity but an important weight that gives a
    Stability at sea but makes it more difficult for
    Ground handling. L'Ilur - except the latest version
    "Kit clin" designed for digital cutting - illustrates
    This approach.
    With Creizic, the idea is to design a sail-rowing
    Responding better to a current boat demand
    Lightweight and easy to use as well as to build. Like the
    Other plans, this new boat is intended for
    Individual construction as well as construction
    professional. As a result of the competition, I did not
    The opportunity to see a first copy built.
    It was not until October 2013 that I decided to
    Order a first copy at the site of my
    Son Nicolas, Icarai, who was then broken
    Order. Unfortunately, Icarai could not
    To overcome this particularly harsh period for
    Small shipyards. These circumstances
    Forced to wait until June 2014 to buy the boat
    At auction. The time to order a sail, the
    Boat was able to do its first tests in September.
    The shapes of Creizic are characterized by a flat bottom
    And a relatively broad picture, better for the
    Stability, which compensates for light displacement. A
    Well rounded brion makes it easier to
    Trailer and also the laying of the plated, less severe.
    A lateral bridging enables the crew
    Make a better reminder, on the other hand to repel
    The angle of invasion. It is narrow enough to
    Do not obstruct the movement of the oars, while
    For stowing oars like rigging in
    . The buoyancy is constituted by a caisson
    Watertight at each end, accessible through a hatch.
    There is no foam, which is allowed by the standards
    European Union, subject to verification of the leakage
    Pressure loss measurements that are very difficult to
    Implementation. In practice,
    Capsize on both edges but this does not conform to
    The letter of the norm.
    The objective of lightness requires a
    Okoumé plywood of 6 mm. Preferably,
    Stitched-laminated construction that involves
    Integral lamination of the shell plating and therefore a
    Resistant to such ill-treatment.
    Boat can undergo. The floor and the gangways are laminated
    Both inside and outside. On the other hand,
    Of the top are not internally laminated. There is only
    Bands at the level of the chines. The sole and the
    Galmords are in 9 mm but the galbord was difficult to
    implement. Indeed, in cousuestratified construction,
    Without dummy, the links in copper wire or
    Other can not oppose too much effort
    Important. In the future it will be necessary to remain in 6 mm,
    Strengthen stratification. Apart from that, we checked
    That the construction from plywood in cutting
    Digital is simple and very accessible to amateurs.

    Holes for mounting links are also drilled
    By the machine, which contributes even more to the ease
    Of assembly. Nicolas also used tapes of Kevlar
    To replace soft protective strips. This
    Done on the kayaks and it seems to be very efficient.
    There is no provision for a storage compartment, on the one hand in
    Because of the weight it entails, and because
    Experience shows that it is easier to land
    Sealed bags only to contort to extract
    Objects of a safe. A small equip-
    Stow some objects under the side deck. The drift is
    Of the same type as on Morbic 12 and Bounty, that is to say
    That it can be extracted like a drift saber. A
    Sandow maintains it either in raised position, or in
    low position. Since there is no floor, the
    Funds receive a non-slip paint
    agressive. Note also that it is possible to sleep in
    The boat by placing a pneumatic mattress
    Directly on the floor, on either side of the shaft
    derivative. But I'm not sure I'll try it!
    THE FILE: CONSTRUCTION
    The oars are of the type to the eye, according to my habit,
    But this time with shovels in two folds of
    6 mm plywood, glued to a mold for
    Spoon shape. They are thus even lighter and
    Of a trial too brief gave satisfaction.
    Initially, I had planned a yawl rig one-third,
    That is to say with a small tape-ass. It allows
    Keep hoisted to rowing, and stabilize the boat. And
    The overall look of the boat wins! The disadvantage
    That it adds 3 spars and leads to retreat drift, and
    The well becomes more bulky. That's why I
    Finally opted for the "balanced lug" (there is no
    Satisfactory term in French), that is to say sailing at
    Third. The sail is even battened, for a
    Better efficiency but also because the bridge plane
    Imposes a limit on the length of spars to store
    The sail under the side deck I tried to find a
    A more satisfactory solution for the sail fabric, ie,
    Ie lightweight, flexible and ensuring good resistance to
    The assembly of the clinks in sewn-together.
    Form and hollow. Indeed, the Clipper-Canvas, fabric
    Polyester which is soft and has the appearance of cotton, does not
    Not below 300 g / m², which is very heavy.
    I had found a rather promising, lightweight and
    (Square of Dimension Polyant), but the
    Manufacturer had just removed from its catalog the variant
    flexible. Finally the sail was cut into Dacron B
    140 g / m², used for Optimist sails. It's light
    But too loaded with resin for my taste! On the other hand,
    Sail is well hollow and seems to stand very well.
    Another test topic is the liquid ballast. A ballast
    Is very useful in solo sailing on a boat
    very light. In order not to impair the simplicity of the boat,
    His weight estimate and the ability to sleep on board,
    I gave up caissons built into the structure. He had me
    Seemed also to fill a ballast with traps and
    On a very light boat is not very practical.
    So I chose to use simple waterproof bags. I have
    Bought two 40-liter bags at Décathlon. He is very
    Easy to fill the bag of sea water. But the first and
    Only test was negative: the bag is waterproof when the
    Pressure comes from outside but not at all when
    Fill it with water! The solution is to close the
    Bag around the front swim bench. I have not yet done
    Try but I think it will work well. In addition,
    Is sure not to lose the bags in a capsize.
    The Creizic under sail. It remains to optimize the position of
    Ballasts so that it is perfectly in its lines.
    As a naval architect, I used to make
    Personal boats a means of experimentation. At this
    Day I did only two outings with the boat, one per
    Time, another under conditions clearly
    More toned. Only a few aspects require
    Development, but this Creizic gives
    And I hope to enjoy much more in 2015. Note
    That I also have a cabin boat (Pen-Hir). So I
    Can make my Creizic available to those
    Who would like to participate in Gulf Week or
    Other sailing-rowing appointments.
    As indicated, I need a few days of work
    To make available a file of plans
    For amateur builders. I am ready to
    Priority if there are candidates for construction.
    Last edited by wlitsch; 01-15-2017 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Should have read the translation before posting!

  20. #70
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Thanks Bill, much appreciated. I do rather like Creizic.

  21. #71
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Surprisingly close to Lillistones Phoneix 3....



    But the lower bow on Creizic may help in maintaing course while rowing in a strong breeze?

  22. #72
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Phoneix 4'9" beam , Çreizic 5'3" so a bit bigger.
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 01-15-2017 at 01:43 PM.

  23. #73
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Phoneix 4'9" , Çreizic 5'3" so a bit bigger.
    I didnt check the specs as i was thinking about visually alike, in some form shapes. Both cracking boats, would be happy with either.

  24. #74
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    I had very nearly decided on Phoenix III, and then I discover Vivier´s Creizic (I already own a Vivier Jewell). Now, what to do.........?
    Has anybody built a Creizic?

  25. #75
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg


  26. #76
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    the chap who bought her from vivier sails with this group

    http://www.arwenmarine.com/NewsCNL2016JYP.html

    lots of pics

  27. #77
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    But the lower bow on Creizic may help in maintaing course while rowing in a strong breeze?
    Of course, if there's a strong breeze a lazy man would be sailing...

    Looking at the photos, I agree Creizic is in the same class as the Phoenix III, but I really love the Phoenix III layout (removable side benches, a little longer cockpit with the centerboard a bit farther forward), which looks like it offers a touch more room. You can get farther forward on the benches, or take the benches out and get your weight farther outboard by sitting on the keel with your back against the side deck. Creizic looks a tiny bit cramped, possibly, in comparison (see photo in post # 64).

    Similar enough that I wouldn't complain if someday a completed Creizic showed up under my Christmas tree, though!

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    Jagular Goes Everywhere: (mis)Adventures in a $300 Sailboat. Book release November 2014.

  28. #78
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Agree - however, the Creizic adjustable foot-rests is an attractive feature. Ross told me that he has an updated hull for the Phoenix III which I would like to try out (I will not build myself, but have a professional builder to do the job). I am also considering Vendia, possibly 5 mm to make it very lightweight.

    Hopefully, I shall start this spring, and have the boat ready by this summer.

    Erik
    Last edited by kleppar; 02-01-2017 at 01:41 PM.

  29. #79
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Had a brief chat on the phone with Mr Vivier today - I will put my Jewell up for sale on his website; not to get rid of the boat, but to make available in the market a ready built Vivier sailboat; I shall have another centreboard sailboat 20-22 ft. built after completed sale of Jewell No. 6; another Jewell, or a variation on the same theme, also by Vivier. I mentioned my interest in Creizic to him, and the similarity to Phoenix III - he says he was inspired by the Aussie craft! So there...Anyway, should I want to have a Creizic built, he can update the drawings and make them ready for me on short notice.

    Hmm... what to decide? Phoenix cockpit layout, practicability, weight, its ability to accomodate an outboard - all excellent features; also the size of its community. I also prefer clinker to stitch and glue. However, Creizic has two rowing stations, I like the rower foot rests, and you cannot beat Vivier on hull aestetics; his boats are all good looking!

    What shall I go for?
    Last edited by kleppar; 02-09-2017 at 02:19 PM.

  30. #80
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    Just to let you know - I just bought the plans for Phoenix III!

  31. #81
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg


  32. #82
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    First Mate, I presume?

  33. #83
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    Default Re: Francois Vivier Creizic, sail and oar 15' lightweight construction 110kg

    my mistake, yes. the stitch and tape version. same hull? great video


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