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Thread: Dunham and Timkin 26' Wooden Sailboat Needing Some Help

  1. #141
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    Haddam, CT
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    68

    Default Re: Dunham and Timkin 26' Wooden Sailboat Needing Some Help

    Hi Denise, oh no I appreciate everyone's advice, it is a good learning experience. It's just like owning a horse, if you ask 10 different horse people how to do something you will get 10 different but good answers, so I'm used to it. As for my boat she will be kept in the water year round, I only haul my boats to paint the bottom in the spring and then it's right back into the water. And in the winter time I put them into wet storage in Long Island Sound at Brewers pilot point marina. That is why I feel I would be better off building her back the way that she was, it lasted 60 years like that I don't see why she couldn't last another 60 years. I'm hoping I can find someone to cut a nice new keel for her that would be my best case scenario, everything else like my floors and frames are all set and the keel weight has a nice coat of epoxy tar on it and ready for some paint.

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
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    6,433

    Default Re: Dunham and Timkin 26' Wooden Sailboat Needing Some Help

    http://www.thompsonnativelumber.com/

    (401) 377-2837

    It has been a good number of years since I bought W.O. there, but they let me take my time & pick though and choose what I wanted (for stream bent ribs).

  3. #143
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    16,480

    Default Re: Dunham and Timkin 26' Wooden Sailboat Needing Some Help

    hey , try putting ospho on that old keel . It will destroy the black in the wood, turning it white again. Then , after washing and drying again , it could still be a candidate for CPES. This is where CPES shines, saving old clapped out wood.
    IF I were to lam a new keel , I would use AYC , not fir .

  4. #144
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Belfast and Marshall Cove, Islesboro, Maine
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    1,929

    Default Re: Dunham and Timkin 26' Wooden Sailboat Needing Some Help

    There are two possible ways that the ballast keel is bolted to the wooden structural keel. For ease of typing, from now on that'll be "BK" for the cast iron ballast keel, and "WK" for the wood keel. There may be through bolts that pass all the way through the keel, probably threaded at both ends, with the nut on the bottom recessed into a pocket in the bottom of the BK. The other possibility is that the bolts were drilled and tapped into the iron. Not too difficult to figure out which. Scrape the bottom of the BK, and you should see the outline of whatever filler they used to cover the pocket and make it flush with the bottom of the keel. If that is the case, keep scraping, and make sure that ALL the bolts are through bolts like that. If that's the case, then you are probably best off getting hold of a sawzall and a supply of mettal cutting blades, and try to get the blade in between the BK and WK. Use cutting oil or water as a lubricant. Prop up the keel so that it can't fall over when the last bolt is cut.
    If they're tapped into the keel, you probably have problems. An air impact wrench MAY back them out. Be patient, let the wrench rattle on the nuts on top of the WK for minutes. It you don't have a big impact wrench, the road service trucks that change tires on big trucks have big air wrenches, compressor, all that stuff. I fear you're more likely to break the bolt off, or remove the top nut, than to get it to back out of the keel. But maybe.

    One thing you might consider is an alternative approach to fixing the "hollow keel" of the lower section. More typical construction for a fin keeler was a simple solid deadwood or skeg, built up bread and butter fashion, with long keel bolts passing down through the deadwood and the BK. Unless the transitiion structure where the "hollow keel" joins the upper hull is in perfect shape, not needing any work, this might be a cheaper approach.

    Another approach might be a structural sheathing of fiberglass (FRP), which, if it's strong enough, and encapsulates the BK, will render the condition of the keel bolts insignificant. It's not a traditionalist approach, but it's a straightforward job. I'd suggest reading a book by Alan Vaitses called "Covering wooden boats with Fiberglass" International Marine Publishing, 1981. Written by a marine surveyor and boatbuilder who actually had done all the jobs he writes about.

    All that said, do go into this knowing that this is an odd duck of a boat in terms of construction, with no history or pedigree that I'm aware of. However you do it, you're looking at a job that will consume hundreds of hours of labor and quite a bit of money. Shooting from the hip, I'd guess no less than $10k, easily twice that, not counting the value of your time. That expenditure won't be reflected in increased value if you decide to sell the boat.
    Even if this was a Herreshoff one-design fin keeler with an illustrious history and famous former owners, you'd be unlikely to recover a fraction of the money spent on it.

  5. #145
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
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    3,812

    Default Re: Dunham and Timkin 26' Wooden Sailboat Needing Some Help

    this guy went against "don't use plywood" way of thinking. I don't know the outcome. But I've seen plywood swell like crazy with just dampness, can't imagine a the deadwood made from it.
    http://www.cse.psu.edu/~dunn/Alita/deadwoodreplace.html

    Yikes!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  6. #146
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Belfast and Marshall Cove, Islesboro, Maine
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    1,929

    Default Re: Dunham and Timkin 26' Wooden Sailboat Needing Some Help

    Several years ago I came into possession of a Palmer Baby Husky. Real classic machinery. As far as I could figure out at the time, parts were absolutely unavailable. Of course, if cost is no object it may be possible to have parts custom made... People may advocate looking around for others of the same model lying around, but it always seems that the same parts give up, and so you wind up with five Baby Huskies, all with the same clapped-out gear water pump.
    Here is an article about Palmer engines:

    http://www.greenwichlibrary.org/blog...s-engines.html


    The later product of Palmer were marinized International Harvester tractor and truck engines, made in the 50's and 60's. The bigger engines were terribly heavy compared to a big block Chevy or a 440 Chrysler, and then along came diesels, and so much for that. They also sold an engine called the Palmer P60, based on the engine from a International Cub tractor. It was a lovely little engine for a launch or a 25-30' auxiliary sailboat. But they were never terribly popular compared to the Greymarines and Universals, so there weren't enough to make it worthwhile for someone to make the marine-specific parts like water-cooled exhaust manifolds which are crucial to the survival of these old engines. There WERE enough Universal Atomic Fours around, so today parts are being made for them, and it's still practical to run a boat with one of these engines, while Kermaths and Palmers are very rare, and I haven't seen either make running since my Kermath Sea Pup died in 1976.

  7. #147
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Haddam, CT
    Posts
    68

    Default Re: Dunham and Timkin 26' Wooden Sailboat Needing Some Help

    Seo that is a good article on the Palmer engine company, thanks for that.

    As far as my wooden keel is concerned I got a phone call from a boat builder in R.I and he gave me the name and number of a sawmill in Cornwall, CT that cuts special order boards just for applications like mine. For $4.50 a board foot I will have a solid piece of heart white oak for my keel. The place that I am using is called New England Naval Timbers and the owners name is Duke. He is a really nice and knowledgeable, I also ordered up some other wood for projects that I have. He also selects and cuts wood for Mystic Seaport and many other shipyards up and down the eastern seaboard you can see some of his work here http://newenglandnavaltimbers.com/

  8. #148
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Belfast and Marshall Cove, Islesboro, Maine
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    Default Re: Dunham and Timkin 26' Wooden Sailboat Needing Some Help

    CT and RI are sort of the world's center for white oak. If you're looking for green stock, you might try calling the state agricultural extension service, and see if they have an Extension Forester, who may be able to point you to some of those part-time mills that don't advertise. Only caution I'd give is that when you buy from a mill like that, measure the thickness of the board in several places both along the length and across the width. A mill that's primarily sawing for farmers isn't too concerned about how true the carriage rides, which is what causes variation. Also, the saw's not likely to be as true as in a fancy mill, so you may need to plane down 1/4" to get rid of the tooth marks. So, if you're looking for 5/4" stock, select 6/4 as measured at the thinnest spot. That way you'll be able to plane down to a true usable 5/4.
    Some of these mills sell for under $1/board foot, a fraction of what a fancier place will want. Rather than planing down with the cabinet planer you might have in your shop. Much better to find some guy with a big 24" planer to get your stock down to dimension. I used to have access to one of those planers, and it was a great convenience. I've also done projects using a 10" INCA, and it's slow, and hard on the machine. Cabinet planers are intended to produce very fine finishes on wood that's basically square and true. Using them to hog off wholesale quantities of oak is a mistake.
    Douglas Fir is remarkable stuff, said to be the only wood that you can build an entire schooner out of, from keel to mast heads. I think oak is much stronger, so to get the same strength you need to use bigger pieces of DF. If you're looking for ultimate strength and rot resistance, poke around for black locust. It's remarkable stuff, but hard to work and heavy.

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