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Thread: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

  1. #1
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    Default Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Here we go.

    I have decided to build Gartside design #166, 6m centreboard Lugger. and I take the chance of starting a thread alredy.

    I want to make this thread as a blog of the process, because I have found it inspiering and usefull to look at similar threads here, and I hope others will be inspiered too. I will also use it to seek inputs from forum members on challenges and solutions underway.

    I will keep editing this post with a list of the progress, so here is what I have done so far:


    • Using Woodenboat forum and others to help finding a good design that I also like.
    • Purchased Watercraft Magazine, and studied the plans, as they come free with Issue April/March 2010
    • Purchased pdf. scale-plans from Paul Gartside (2013)
    • Started to collect lead from different sources (Currently 80 kg, and need 140)
    • Started 1:10 scale-model build.
    • Buildt my boat-builder-shed in the barn
    • considering http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/buildd18.htm but still might build this....
    • Buildt a bandsaw-sawmill for sawing materials from my own lumber. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...hlight=bandsaw
    • Logged spruce for the build (2014)
    • Started sawing some veneer for cold-molding
    • Spendt time restoring a Nordlandsboat (2015
    • Used the veneer for another smaller build (2016-2018)
    • Decided (again) to build Lugger6m. With the designers support, will build it clinker lapstrake on sawn frames
    • Started milling planking and frames material (2018)


    I guess I need not to say this will take some time, years, months without posting, slow progress, life get in the way etc etc... You know that, dont you?

    Regards Fred.
    Last edited by Fredostli; 06-19-2018 at 08:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    I will enjoy watching your progression!
    "You must believe it will happen, or it won't. Believe me, you gotta believe first" Tim Goad

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    The design:
    Length on deck: 6.04 m, Length waterline: 5.76 m. Beam: 2.28 metres Draft:1.46 m. Ballast: 138 kg. Displacement: 728 kg. Sailing rig: Lug and Mizzen. Sail area: 20 sq meters

    I chosed this design for several reasons: I have good access to materials for strip-planking or cold-moulding. It is leightweight and trailable compared to its size. The rig is simple and easy to build yourself, suited for trailing, and have a classic look. I believe it can be a very good looking boat.



    Paul Gartside sendt me this link with photos of this boat beein buildt in France, and that is the only photos available of a finished hull: http://www.etablimarin-chantiernaval...x-en-cours.php

    Fred
    Last edited by Fredostli; 10-16-2013 at 04:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Scheme:
    At first I was planning to start this project next year. I am currently building a small plywood boat, and planned finnish this first. My workshop is pretty cold in winter-time, so from now it is getting to cold to use epoxy, painting etc. For this reason I desided to get a start on this boat. I have dreamed to build a small sailer for several years, so why not start? I will spend the winter converting a barn we have, to a workshop for this build. The room will not be insulated, and the size will be 4,5 X 8 meters. I will tear down an old wooden silo, and use the wall planking as floor in this room.

    I realized I could start lofting and building the station-molds, because this work do not need a heated room. I have access to a workshop With a lot of tools where I live, but it is to small to a boat this size.

    I have started to learn the princippels of lofting, doing some scale-lofting on paper. For the molds I will try to use materials I can find that can be reused. This is free and environment-friendly.

    The Builder: I cannot, not build a boat!!! Why? As a kid i loved photos of sailing ships, and I buildt some models of sailing-ships as a youth. I also owned a boat (not sail) as a teenager. I have always enjoyed building stuff. Hobbies has been making custom knifes, carving, building our house, and making guitar etc. I love working with wood, but I am not a perfectionist Some years ago we decided to buy a family boat to use on holiday trips. We looked at some sailboats too, but ended up with a 29ft old cabincruiser. We have been on some nice trips with it too. I have a friend with a sailboat, and have been on some trips, so I know that sailing is something i really like. I have the tools, the space, access to materials, and love wood,,, How can I not make a small trailersailer? I am not building a boat just to have a boat, I am building a boat so I can enjoy building a boat. I live in northern Norway, one of the world most beatifull boating areas!!!

    Fred
    Last edited by Fredostli; 10-16-2013 at 04:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    You've got half battle won once you start. It seems that many people just dream and never start. You're on the right path. ;D
    "You must believe it will happen, or it won't. Believe me, you gotta believe first" Tim Goad

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    I've been waiting for this one... Will you build in spruce of fir?


    /Fredrik

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    I have not decided yet, but it will be one of the two. Paul Gartside says it can also be cold-molded. and if I chose that option, I will saw my own weeners in fir. I will study cold-molding, and maybe make some test-templates with fir during this winter. If i choose strip-planking it will most likely be spruce. The hull only need to be 12 mm with cold-molding, so i guess it is ok with the heavier fir. With strip planking the plans says 16 mm. One reason to start this project now is to also begin study, and maybe test alternatives. I read in your thread Trango that spruce did not bend evenly, but gartside recomend edge nailing the strips. that might help with this issue. The molds will be different with cold-molding than with strips, so I must deside before building molds.

    Fred

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Hmm, if you lean towards spruce I would strongly suggest that you test to plank a couple of strips to make sure they can handle the twist and bend. Maybe you can build simple mock-ups of the first five molds just to test? Edge nailing was almost impossible in my case - I needed serious 5*45 mm screws to hold the strips and still it was impossible to get a good edge set, even with the use of C-clamps. The spruce will compress before it twists...

    On the other hand, in contrast to #106 that I'm struggling with, your boat was designed for strip building..

    /Fredrik

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Oh man, in the pictures this boat looks even better than the drawings.
    You choose a very beautyfull design Fred. I“m looking forward to your thread.
    Max

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Thanks Max. Fredrik, right now I am leaning towards cold-moulding, and I am reading the Gougeon book about it. I will do some test sawing and gluing when I have time for it. (first a new blade to my circular saw) I will also test bending the curve needed for the veeners. I appreciate you share your experience with the spruce. I told Gartside I was inspired by your thread, and he told me 106 was a trickier shape than this, so I guess your right this is more suitable for strip planking.

    Fred

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.


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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.



    Im not overly keen on transoms.....but that one is a goody. I do however think the outboard cut out and an engine hanging off the back would completely ruin it. Just my opinion mind.

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    I do agree on the cut in the transom, and i might try to find another solution. If the build goes well I might buy a Torquedo 9hp electric outboard, and a light outboard might be possible to mount in a more transom-friendly way

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    I know forums like this love pictures. I have now started to build my 1:10 scale model of Gartside 6m Lugger, as a winter project, waiting for time and weather to start some real building. The plans from Gartside have a 1:10 lines-plan drawing I used for the sections. So here is a picture of my "dreaming-table" where I am setting up a mold for the model, and dreaming/planning the real boat.



    BTW: I will start to make a lofting table. Will you recomend full scale, or will half section do the job just as good?

    (Ok, I admit, I deliberately put one of my home-made knifes there to show you one of my other wooden hobbies )

    Fred
    Last edited by Fredostli; 10-23-2013 at 02:04 AM.

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Just want to show my little clinker wooden boat. I did a small restoration of this, replacing a rotten keel. It was hanging in a shed for 20 years, before I picked it down, and was owned by my father in law. Restoring this was part of my inspiration to start building boats. It is not restored professionally, but it floats Today it was time to get it out of the water/ice, dont you think? Blurry mobile picture because it is dusk alredy at 17:00



    Fred

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    I know forums like this love pictures. I have now started to build my 1:10 scale model of Gartside 6m Lugger, as a winter project, waiting for time and weather to start some real building. The plans from Gartside have a 1:10 lines-plan drawing I used for the sections. So here is a picture of my "dreaming-table" where I am setting up a mold for the model, and dreaming/planning the real boat.



    BTW: I will start to make a lofting table. Will you recomend full scale, or will half section do the job just as good?

    (Ok, I admit, I deliberately put one of my home-made knifes there to show you one of my other wooden hobbies )

    Fred
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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    You are obviously to the North,no snow here yet. For your lofting, if you are going to laminate frames, you could do that on your loft board, and depending on those frames, may be able to be done in halfs, though i suspect they run sheer to sheer over the top of the keel? If they stop short of the keel and joined by floors, you could do a half loft.

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    There will not be laminated frames, only laminated stem as far as I understand the plans. The molds will be split in the area where the centreboard is. I am thinking one have more control by building full size lofting-board, but it will be nice to make it half loft, because then I could do this job in my office, late winter nights ...

    Here is a picture of the setup-plan:




    Ups! How did my home-buildt Fender telecaster end up in the background! I must take care, this is a wooden boat-forum... I also have music as a hobby, playing in a Family-fathers-get-away-from-wife-and-kids-once-in-a-while-garage-band. Making guitars is a really fun hobby too, and thanks for the pass darroch. The project in the background is a "Neck-thru SG-guitar" I am dreaming about building a Cold-molded acoustic to have with me on the boat.

    Fred
    Last edited by Fredostli; 10-25-2013 at 01:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Laminated inner stem for my model. I would like to get some comment on cold-molding vs strip-plank for this boat. Fredrik commented on this, and working on my model it looks like a good shape for strip-planking. I might loft just a part of the hull and try both methods...


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    No, I have not strip planked the hull yet, not startet lofting either, but I have worked on my scale model. I find this usefull planning the real build. I get a feel for the shape of the hull, and that helps me imagine how it will be to strip plank the full scale boat. I am now leaning towards strip-plankin more than cold molding. There is some twisting towards the stem, but I believe this is a suitible hull for strip planking.





    Last edited by Fredostli; 11-19-2013 at 02:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    I like it!
    "You must believe it will happen, or it won't. Believe me, you gotta believe first" Tim Goad

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Hard to tell just from a couple of photos, but that twist doesn't look bad to me. I think you're right that it could be strip-planked pretty easily. Looks like a great boat.

    Tom
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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Building an SG too I see. I also build guitars... Hull looks pretty.

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Fred , congratulations on starting your build
    this link is of a cold mould power boat but has some very valuable info on the process and it's a good read too
    http://www.buildaboatwithben.com

    andrew

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Agree, I think you are making a good decision if you decide to strip plank. I like your model :-)

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Just for the record: I might change plans and build http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/buildd18.htm instead, despite i was 100% shure about the Gartside. I am really inspired by http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-18-Beach-Yawl thread here, and started to think of the advantages of a smaller boat, but who knows where I end up... Anyhow, i need to finish my shed, and I need a lot of strips....

    Fred

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Just a guess but you might find the sail plan on Mist a little more practical that the Gartside lugger. I'm looking at the main sail which on #166 has a long, high peak and is drawn with a peak halyard like a traditional gaff rig, which may be necessary to get enough tension on the leech. It looks impressive but its one more line to have to deal with that takes away from the simplicity of the rig.
    Last edited by JimD; 04-23-2014 at 08:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Guess you are right Jim. I have also considered the ability to recover from a capsize... gues that is hard on a 6m with 2.2m beam. If you read dktyson's thread, This is tested with Myst.

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Well, this thread is not dead, neither the plans to build 6m-Lugger. I have been back and fourth choosing design, but I really like this design. This summer most of the time was spend building the shed and the bandsaw-mill. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...hlight=bandsaw

    Next is trying to saw some material before winter sets inn. I must also chop down some trees. I am considering cold-moulding (again) and when I get a new blade, (it broke today) I will try to resaw some 4mm veneers, and do a template. Gartside recommend 3 layers, and 12 mm hull tickness if one choose cold-moulding for this boat

    The shed is almost ready. it is 4 x 8,5 meter. In addition to this there will be a 4 x 3 meter insulated room in the back of the shed. It will be buildt on top of an old concrete silo one meter above the shed-floor with a good view over the build ;-) I think this will be enough space, as I also have another workshop in another building where I have the planer and other tools, so this room will be dedicated the build..

    Here is a pic of the shed, not very impressive, but I will put in some windows, and paint it to make it lighter. In front is a very stable cast iron table saw I got from my father in law. I made a concrete base for it too, it just needs a new blade.




  30. #30
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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    I made this little lofting table, and it has a 1/5 scale-grid and also full size. I am using it for some "lofting-practise" I am thinking about making a part of the hull, say a quarter of 3-4 stations, and do some cold-molding testing. I find it useful to use a knife to make the lines in the grid, because it makes a sharp thin line.



  31. #31
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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    The scale lofting I do is really usefull, and I am learning a lot. The 1/10 scale model I made from the Linesplan is not accurate enough, so I might build a 1/5 model based on this lofting.

    I`ve got some free Spruce from a friend, just had to do the logging myself. He was happy I cut them down as it was blocking the sun for the neighboors. After posting about it on Facebook, I have been offered Spruce from others too, so I have acess to a lot of Spruce now, as I also have some on the property. Some of the logs have too many knots, but since I am sawing it myself I can do some sorting, and get some out of it. The rest goes to other projecs.

    Is it ok to saw veneer from freshly cut logs? or should the logs rest (for how long?)


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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    That lugger is very handsome. Killer transom.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    Good to see progress!

    I would dry the wood first. Probably cut 2 inch slabs and seal the end-grain with water based wooden glue. How long it takes to dry the wood depends on temperature, moisture etc. You will probably need to wait a couple of years..


    Maybe some real expert can give you better advice...

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    I have been reading they cut veneer from fresh cut logs, so I might test how that works. I guess 4 mm veneer do not need much time but there might be a risk for cracks. I will experiment with this, but hope to find a way to start using the materials i mill within a year.... BTW. Fredrik, how long did you dry the spruce you milled for your boat?

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    Default Re: Building 6m Centreboard Lugger, Gartside design #166.

    I love the shape of 166 Fred and hope you decide to build that.

    Why don’t you mill the timber and take it to be kiln seasoned (must be lots of places do that in timber producing Norway?) It might be better than air dried for strip plank construction and much quicker.
    Just a thought! Duncan.

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