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Thread: Macgregor Canoe

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Beautiful boat! That's a design I will be looking closely at in the future when I'm ready to build another boat.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Perhaps I'm coming to this thread too late, but here's my approach to the steering issue: There is a single yoke line that runs from one end of the rudder yoke (say, port) into the after deck, down along the underside of the side deck to the port peddle, then forward to a sheave mounted on the port side of the forward bulkhead, across to a similar sheave on the starboard side and then back in a similar fashion to the starboard end of the rudder yoke. This way, if you can't use the peddles because you are sitting on the deck you can still steer by reaching under the deck and pulling on the line.

    This is similar to the approach taken by Herreshoff with Coquina.

    Andrew


    (The extra lines are to raise and lower the rudder.)


    Last edited by akitchen; 01-19-2014 at 11:45 AM. Reason: Add photos, add comment

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    I might add that all of the Mac's shown here put mine to shame in finish standard, especially after a decades use in a shallow volcanic bay and some touring in the excessively salt Koorong. Plays heck with a wooden boat.

  4. #39
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    Default

    Nice to see this thread. I built my Mac almost ten years ago now, and recently refreshed it. Here are the hatches and backrest. The hatches function OK, but they leak, definitely, albeit slowly. I used some cheap weatherstrip for the seal. I recommend using a very wide gasket shown earlier in this thread, like those called for in kayak deck hatches. The backrest is after L. Francis Herreshoff's drawings in Sensible Cruising Designs, and I like it very much for paddling. I usually stow it for sailing.

    As my first build, this Mac was mostly built as drawn, except for the cockpit, which was stretched to about 75 inches, and widened by about an inch.


  5. #40
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    I've been through the hatch drama on a sea kayak, and struggled to find closed cell foam that was squishy enough, and never got them totally watertight. It is easy to underestimate how much clamping pressure is required over the area provided by the hatch rim with even low density foam.
    I have never tried this (or seen it used, so YMMV), but soft rubber tube (like that surgical stuff) partially rebated in a groove might work. The other thing is to make any knobs on locking bolts big and chunky - what works in your warm dry workshop can be an exercise in frustration with cold wet hands.
    Nice build, by the way

    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Thanks for all the photos everyone. Some lovely looking Macgregors out there. Mine is slightly more work boat standard but I'm okay with that.

    So this evening I had a few spare minutes and was again contemplating the hatch issue. So back out to the shed to fool around with what I am calling a compression cam clamp, or at least that is that aim. Currently it doesn't do the compression part



    So I made this cam lock up, which opens and shuts just fine, above is the closed/locked position and below is the open I want to remove the hatch now position.



    The thing i am not sure if I can do or not, is once the hatch goes to the closed position, somehow apply additional turns or pressure to ensure a good compression seal...

    Hmmm something to think about tomorrow. All ideas welcome.

    If it all gets too hard i will do something like this (These ones are for sale from: http://www.ptwatercraft.com/Forms/PTW_other_order_form.html )




    and if you are like me and you had not heard of Delrin before, here is a nice summary of what it is

    Polyoxymethylene plastic
    Chemical Compound





    Polyoxymethylene, also known as acetal, polyacetal and polyformaldehyde, is an engineering thermoplastic used in precision parts requiring high stiffness, low friction and excellent dimensional stability.Wikipedia





    Density: 1.41 g/cm³



    Melting point: 175 °C



    Formula: (CH2O)n

    Thanks for that Google.


    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Simon, my Macgreggor in action last sunday.



    Other boat is my latest restoration, an Australian Sailfish sailed by my cousin. We built the hull in 1963. His first sail of it in 35 years.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Hey Skuthorp, cheers for the photos, your boat looks lovely. Thats a great colour too. Is it clear rub rail, white deck and clear insides? I not6e you have a slight V section on the deck just forward of your main mast, is that to deflect water away from the coaming when you are sailing in a bit of chop?

    I think I mentioned I was thinking of green hull (british racing or similar colour), clear or white deck and probably off white interior with clear sole boards etc.

    Anyway, back to the bulkhead hatch.



    Mach 2 as above is dual pivoting for a bit of extra amusement, with the idea being that the inside of the bulkhead would have small ramped sections that would provide the needed compression for the rubber seal.

    As you can see in the above photo I need to move the hinge point a little further away from the edge as currently the hatch would foul on the bulkhead.. It's all good fun, thankfully, when your playing with a proto type...



    and this would theoretically be the closed position.

    This would all be very fun, but for now I think I may just switch to using four little dogs on the outside of the hatch as I'd hate the opening mechanism to fail while I had a cold beverage present in the other side of the bulkhead... Later on down the track I can look at making a new hatch lid and setting it up with a fast opening mechanism as above, but so that I can move on for now, I'll go with the dogs...

    Cheers
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    "Hey Skuthorp, cheers for the photos, your boat looks lovely. Thats a great colour too. Is it clear rub rail, white deck and clear insides? I not6e you have a slight V section on the deck just forward of your main mast, is that to deflect water away from the coaming when you are sailing in a bit of chop?"
    Off white deck, matt not gloss. Otherwise as you say. My boats are always yellow, though the mix varies a bit. I sail often in a short steep chop in our shallow bay and water coming over the bow climbs the mast step without the deflector. She also get paddled in small surf or on bigger waves in open water and it helps there too. The whaleboat influence comes to the fore and she can be deceptively quick on a big glassy roller. I have discarded my sole boards as added clutter and sometimes wear skateboarders knee pads.
    Name BTW is Felicite'.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Hey Skuthorp, is your boat 4mm ply? How do you find standing on the boards with no floor sole boards?

    Anyway I checked the temperature on the boat the other day at about 5pm it was 48.7 degrees Celsius (119.66 Fahrenheit ). I decided to have one of these instead of doing any work.



    I have picked up the wood for the inner and outer gunnels though. Need to glue up the scarf as it was just a little bit short. You can also just see one of the floor beams in this shot. I have them all roughed out and sitting in position on the boat. A little bit of sanding and they will be ready to glue in place.



    I am also working on a little jig to help me make the oval bulk head hatch covers.... More to follow later on that.
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Yes Simon, 4 mm mahogany ply thoroughly infused with epoxy. Makes a dry surface. I wear wetsuit boots, useful too as the bat has a lot of sharp rocky patches, and gardeners foam knee pads. Have you looked up Sofala, he owns a Mac as well and hopefully he's still looking at the thread.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    It's scary how fast a few months go by. Anyway I haven't been totally idle over the last little while, some small progress has been made, some additional shaping of the rudder parts and much contemplation as to how they go togoether has occured.

    Also I made a jig to cut an ellipse. I ended up using a wider guide part than the original jig and making up a perspex router base plat that attached to the jig



    This initial jig was glued down using a paper joint so it could be broken off again, and just testing it out on some scrap MDF boards.
    Then onto some real wood, yielding a close to perfect shape for the hatch.



    I cut a few more ovals with either the jig, a jigsaw, a scroll saw or some other method Then glued a few of the ovals to the permanent bulk head using the vacuum bag, because, well just because I could. Not sure if I'd use the vac bag next time as it was a little messier than I thought it would be to clean up, live and learn...



    Once that was all completed it looked something like this



    The dremel and the little sanding drum made short work of any newly found tight fitting spots and the hatches were dry fitted and then had a small backing piece glued into them.

    Right now the whole lot is drying out in the shed as it get's it has gotten it's third coat of epoxy applied.

    Cheers
    My First Boat Build:
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...acgregor-Canoe
    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Hatches are a pain. The bigger they are the more they leak. Even the patent plastic ones, but they don't leak as much.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    I guess I'm going to find out when I get back to my JIM build . I have 3 hatches very similar to Simon's to build so I'll watch this closely. If I have hatches I want to be able to stuff a duffel bag inside ...I really do . Those little plastic things are small and very floppy. I think stiffness of both the hatch and the bulkhead should be the key to a watertight hatch ?? or reasonably watertight hatch .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    I always use a waterproof stuff bag as well Peter. If touring alone I carry a 80 ltr screw top ex olive drum forward. That is Waterproof, is good ballast and it still floats.

    I was looking through the pics, Tom's leeboard attachment is a serious bit of kit,

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Very neat, I've seen some good attempts at leeboard connections and that one rates highly.

    re, dry bags . Agreed but sometimes , just sometimes there is an advantage to being able to casually stow a shirt with the expectation that it will remain dry .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    A little bit more progress, through this week



    Got the final frames removed and all the deck beams and floor beams are sitting in place. After I get the inside a little more cleaned up they can be glued in place.

    I do like the leeboard hinge that Tom uses, I will probably just use some shot cord as designed for a while until I get a good idea were the leeboard should sit...

    You couldn't really see it in any of the photo's but there is a 5mm spacer on the bulkhead to allow some room for the rubber seal which is around 9mm uncompressed.
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Well I got a little bit more done last week, I managed to get another coat of epoxy on inside and out.




    I have trimmed some of the excess off the bulkheads too.

    I've started looking at the floor beams and how they are positioned, I had to remake one beam as it didn't exactly enough match the lofted drawings, but the rest were close enough.

    I've also started making some mast holder upppers to go in the bottom of the boat, pretty sure that's the technical term.

    Got a qoute on some sails today too, all good fun.

    Just curious to hear from anyone else out there, did you paint now or after you had glued the deck beams and floor beams etc etc in, seems it would be easier to fair out the surface now with nothing in the way.

    And this photo is after a little bit of fun with the scraper and the long board.



    Cheers

    Simon
    Last edited by simonmags; 05-05-2014 at 07:42 AM. Reason: added an extra photo
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Also does anyone in Aus know where to get smaller quantities of the West Systems 407 Fairing Filler?
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    So after applying another coat of epoxy to the inside and then gaining a new respect for anyone that has built a boat and or needed to fair out epoxy, I got to this stage:



    Hear I have the deck Beams all sitting in place, in fact I finished glueing them into place last night. I have also gotten the mast steps roughed out to shape, waiting to be glued into the final resting home. I opted after a suggestion from another Macgregor owner to utilise some poly pipe of the appropriate size for a mast box. The plan being that poly pipe should be lighter than a custom mast box. You can see it sitting roughly in place here at the front point.

    I've also got a picture of my new favourite sanding long board:


    And on that exciting note I will leave you to it.

    Hopefully in a few weeks I will have some photos of the masts and booms and yards etc.

    Next on the list is to work out if i should glue the floors down before or after painting...

    Cheers All
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by simonmags View Post
    Also does anyone in Aus know where to get smaller quantities of the West Systems 407 Fairing Filler?
    I use white flour .... I know, I know but it works well for me.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  22. #57
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Okay so it's been a little while, long enough for the weather to go from 47 degrees c, down to 1 degrees c. Good Times.

    Anyway so I have now glued the inner gunwale, otherwise known to me as the little thin bit of wood that goes here...



    I've also glued the bits that go under the floor and the deck knee thingers. I need to go back and do some filleting now that it has dried out.

    As I was contemplating what to do next I had a question that some of you might be able to help with.... What did you do with the inner gunwale type piece that goes behind the cockpit coaming? As you can see here I have temporarily held the comaing gunwale piece in place, possibly this could be called a carlin? with some clamps etc just to get some ideas, my idea so far consists of asking you for opinions




    Hope to hear from you all soon

    Here are a couple more pictures for your amusement. I only just had enough clamps gluing the inner gunwale. I could have used 10 more really.



    I also notched the King Plank into the deck beams and vice versa. It got let into the stems at either end as well before being covered with glue and set in place



    Cheers
    My First Boat Build:
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...acgregor-Canoe
    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Found this image on Google, I think I might go with something similar, seems he extends it between the bulk heads and adds an extra piece in that curves between port and starboard side at the front of the boat...



    Dennis has an additional deck knee as I believe his cockpit is a little longer, very neat work though.
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    okay, so i got the inner carlin sort of thing in place and then spent a week or two learning and doing some steam bending... here are some photos of the last few weeks progress...

    i did the steam bending with a big pot of water and had the wood in a plastic bag, bending it down over a form with the steam on.



    i also drilled the upper hole for the mast and tried it out



    then picked the whole thing up and took it down to the grass and tried stepping the mast...

    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    That is a great boat! Please keep us updated. Mind me asking how many hours you have in this one already?

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    I did 2 solid weeks in the school with the local boat builders, duck flats. Since then I've been lucky to get in a few hours a week, maybe up to 4 hours. Lots of that is spent in head scratching, procaffenating, or just sitting and thinking. I probably killed 3 or 4 weekends just in cutting an oval hatch out of the bulkhead. Best guess (which probably isn't very accurate), maybe 200 hours. Silly things slow me down immeasurably, stuff like wanting to sand the floor planks might have to wait a month to get into the local wood working centre and use the tools there, then if the tool is broken that month I'm out waiting another week.

    All that said I don't really mind too much how long it takes, and I am doing things the harder way at times because I find it more interesting. I made up a steaming rig just to steam the inner rail that runs under the deck at the front of the cockpit. I will probably use the same rig to get the cockpit coaming bent around in one piece too. I could do things faster if I tried or went a different way in some things. But the main thing is I'm enjoying myself. The only thing I do need is someone with ten thumbs to come help out with the sanding, that part I don't find so fun, and am currently in the middle of. Won't get much done for a few weeks as we have visitors over next week.

    Are you thinking of building one of these nyuguy?

    Cheers
    My First Boat Build:
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...acgregor-Canoe
    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    by the by, Welcome to the Forum.

    Here is the steaming rig too:



    I found steaming the wood in a Plastic bag then bending it over a form with a metal strap on the outside to help keep the pressure more constant over the whole bend. The Veritas/Lee Valley website has a good little instruction leaflet on steam bending too.

    http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...=1,45866,45867

    I just got a pot from the local store and used a wok burner from the BBQ for the heat source. I think next time I would use a piece of solid poly pipe to run between the pot of boiling water and the plastic bag.

    Enjoy.
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Not sure how I missed this build Simon, but I had the chance for a good catch up over my morning coffee. I'm finding your work quite impressive and am looking forward to following the rest of it.

    I'm interested to know how that jig for the oval cutouts worked.
    Larks

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  29. #64
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Hi Simon, I too am not sure how I missed this. I'm afraid you've been sprung and there will have to be an Adelaide EBS sometime soon. You bring beer, we will bring sandpaper. Great looking boat, been on my list for a long time now.

  30. #65
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    Default

    Yes, an Adelaide EBS. I'm in.


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  31. #66
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe



    Lovely boat , and great work.

    Can anyone please comment on stability ,
    how " tippy " are these craft ?

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    I'll be sure to keep a log of how many times I fall out on the first day
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    EBS?

    Europe By Satellite
    European Business School
    Elastic Block Store
    Emergency Broadcast System
    Enterprise Backup Solution
    Engine Braking System
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by boat fan View Post

    Can anyone please comment on stability ,
    how " tippy " are these craft ?
    I can't comment specifically on the MacGregor, but I just launched my Wee Rob, which is a smaller cousin. I'm a novice at canoeing, and I had no problems with balance while paddling. It seemed a little "tippy" when I first got in, but I was used to it after a few minutes. I imagine it would be more tender while sailing than a beamier boat.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  35. #70
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by simonmags View Post
    EBS?

    Europe By Satellite
    European Business School
    Elastic Block Store
    Emergency Broadcast System
    Enterprise Backup Solution
    Engine Braking System
    Elbow Bending Session. Sometimes just that and no more, of course with beer attached to the elbow, via other body parts. Sometimes coupled with maritime activities.

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