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Thread: Macgregor Canoe

  1. #106
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Then I tested the fit on the new coaming, it's a little tight, but nothing a spokeshave cant fix up




    Of course the spoke shaves needed to be sharpened first, typical



    Maybe I'll get back to it in the next few weeks, will see how far I get. The Coaming doesn't sit up above the deck as much as i thought it might, but you get that I suppose.



    Still scratching my head about what to do with the rudder hardware and how to best bend the bits of flat bar stainless that I have. That's tomorrow Simons problem though.

    Cheers
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  2. #107
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Hi Juho, cool photos you have on your flicker site, what sort of wood are you using for your canoe? Looks like solid planks?

    Guessing this was an attempt at the cockpit coaming as well?

    Juho's photo:
    [IMG]2016-03-26-0691 by Juho Peltoniemi,

    [IMG]2016-04-04-0694 by Juho Peltoniemi
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  3. #108
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Hi Simon, the wood is Vendia wood from a Finnish manufacturer, a product specially developed for wooden boat building. It is technically pine plywood, but with the looks of solid planking and the glue between veneers allow oil to penetrate if you should wish to use traditional methods of finishing. The planking I'm using is 4 mm thick with 5 layers of pine veneer:



    When I started building I tried to find marine grade occume plywood but it was available only 600 km from where I live and the supplier was not at all helpful when I tried to order some. Then I accidently found this product. They didn't offer 4 mm thick planks back then but made some for me on request.

    Yes, the first picture shows my attempt to "steam bend" the ash cockpit coaming (I didn't bother to build a steaming box but heated the wood with boiling water and a heat gun instead. It didn't work out that well.) Yesterday I tried bending for the second time and this time I built a steam box. It worked. The wood has been drying now for 12 hours or so and there is no cracks... is suppose if it was to crack it would have cracked already.

    It's a shame that your coaming is not high enough... I would probably consider reshaping the sidedeck supports (cutting away the parts that extend under the coaming) and glueing the coaming a bit higher... But then you would have to repaint the supports...

    Cheers

  4. #109
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Hi Simon,

    Found a video on youtube which shows one of the original Rob Roy canoes John Macgregor used back in the 19th century: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3N7fuhwmhE

    That coaming on original rob roy doesn't seem to rise much above the deck... and it seem to be rather thin also.

  5. #110
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Hi Simon, good going there, can I ask what that colour and brand of paint is inside please?

  6. #111
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    Default

    I was going for a British racing green but I came out a little lighter in color than planned, but it was my choice of the paint so I have no one to look to but myself for that choice.

    I'll look up the exact color when I get home, but it's a watyl or valspar branded 2 PAC epoxy paint. The color I think was emerald green, but will confirm later.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  7. #112
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    I think we may have our wires crossed Simon, I meant the colour inside cockpit, looks like some sort of cream colour?

  8. #113
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Ahh no worries Andrew, sorry missed that vital word "inside" when reading the other post.

    Yep it's again a 2 Pac Epoxy by Valspar, sold under the Wattyl brand name locally.

    201311.005 Epinamel UC230 Part A
    200301.001 EH100 Part B
    162580.001B2 Colourthane C Series Part A tinted to Emerald Green G13
    162580.001B1 Colourthane C Series Part A tinted to Cream Y34

    You were right it is a Cream
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  9. #114
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    So I've been putting off doing the Epoxy coating before varnishing the floor boards and a few other bits and pieces for far too long now, but am back into it, this weekend might be the weekend that work all starts up in earnest. i think i have almost everything prepped and ready to go.

    Question for those knowledgeable readers out there with similar canoes and rigs. As someone who hasn't really done any sailing or rigging before, how do you work out where and how to run the rigging lines for the lug rigged version of this canoe?




    https://goo.gl/photos/p5vtKhw9oyNSLPnC6

    Switched to Flickr to try that out for a while.
    Last edited by simonmags; 09-07-2016 at 09:20 PM. Reason: Fixed image and bolded question
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  10. #115
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    i only get the little square with an X in it Simon

  11. #116
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Thanks Andrew, have fixed up the image now by switching to Flickr. Still hoping others can show us some details of how the sail's are rigged on their boats...

    Cheers
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  12. #117
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    Question Re: Macgregor Canoe

    OK so I've had WoodenBoat's plans for Oughtred's MacGregor since 1988... several sheets of BS1088 plywood stashed away since 1990... just never quite committed to embark on such an endeavor until very recently.


    I'm familiar with West System technology (used their products in other projects) as well as kit offerings from outfits including CLC Boats (who caught my attention when word appeared about a very appealing pair of canoes conceived, built then launched) so with vastly more woodworking experience since my first boat project I'm closer than ever to actually begin lofting.


    I'm hoping others here may have insights they can share that only come from making progress towards successful completion & use.


    One question I have of those folks is: might adapting a Hobie Mirage Drive (featured in the Waterlust canoe twins) be feasible in a MacGregor? Until I saw this pair so-outfitted I'd not been aware such a propulsion option existed yet I can see all kinds of practical advantages to having one installed for low-impact use when in confined waters or when sail or oars are impractical. As it seems to require fitting to a well, forcing a break in the keel, I'd have to think some provision for making up for the loss of stiffness might be a good idea?


    Another would be floatation options: little mention is made in the plans for inclusion so it's left up to each builder to determine where and how much to add?


    A dunking in that early Pumpkin Seed convinced me that something was needed, something that had been left out of the instructions.


    Comments & replies welcome!
    Last edited by sp_clark; 09-11-2016 at 07:18 AM. Reason: revised content

  13. #118
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Hi SP, you might start your own new thread on this question. You may even get more responses. It sorta an unwritten rule not to gate crash others threads. I realise you're new so alls for given, by me anyway. Rules get a bit bent though. Just saying, Simon might even forgive you too,

  14. #119
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Thanks Andrew, good point!

    Other forums I frequent often have 'related' posts added to running threads so I hope no toes get bruised by my inadvertent stumblings.

  15. #120
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    Default

    I'll let you off this time if you spend the next hour researching how to do the rigging on one of these as a sailing canoe and report back to here

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  16. #121
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by simonmags View Post
    I'll let you off this time if you spend the next hour researching how to do the rigging on one of these as a sailing canoe and report back to here.
    Thanks for the latidude!

    You mentioned lug rig before, you thinking standing, dipping or balanced? Lots of choices

    In that my sole prior, first-hand knowledge of rigging anything was that sloop-rigged 14' scow (that had decent explanation included in plans) I have to defer to Google in this as with so many other (non) trivial pursuits....

    http://www.clcboats.com/life-of-boat...-lug-rigs.html

    http://www.storerboatplans.com/GIS/GISRigging.html

    http://www.diy-wood-boat.com/balanced-lugsail.html

    Hope these'll be of help to you in your quest; I sure got an hour's pleasure reading your thread from your first post yesterday.

  17. #122
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Thanks SP,

    Will enjoy reading your posts, I just can't picture putting a hobie cat type paddle system into one of these canoes, not that it couldn't be done. But that's mostly because I don't understand how those Hobie systems work. They do look pretty cool though, I would have thought you need a a fairly big hole in the bottom to mount the pedal type system which would necessitate a lot more flotation than.

    Anyway back to rigging, yep going with that Balanced Lug rig, found a good PDF, from that Link you gave us on the clc website for a yawl and will be working through that to see how they put it all together.

    Cheers
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  18. #123
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Simon, I have this book in my collection but can't find it now. It may help you

    http://www.woodenboatstore.com/produ...all_Boat_Sails

  19. #124
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by simonmags View Post
    Thanks SP,

    Will enjoy reading your posts, I just can't picture putting a hobie cat type paddle system into one of these canoes, not that it couldn't be done. But that's mostly because I don't understand how those Hobie systems work. They do look pretty cool though, I would have thought you need a a fairly big hole in the bottom to mount the pedal type system which would necessitate a lot more flotation than.

    Anyway back to rigging, yep going with that Balanced Lug rig, found a good PDF, from that Link you gave us on the clc website for a yawl and will be working through that to see how they put it all together.
    Hey you're most welcome! Glad I could put you on a heading to a satisfying anchorage.

    I know naught of the Hobie drive myself, learned of it first when news crossed my bow of the Waterlust Expedition twins launch & subsequent journey down our eastern seaboard a few weeks ago. That rekindled my dream of building m'self a Macgregor, plans for which I've had (and ply!) literally for almost 30 years.

    Alas I was younger then, with vastly more ambition than lately, the prospect of lofting planks from offsets wasn't as daunting as it is now. With the advent of stitch & glue techniques carried out over CNC'd (or even lofted!) planks, there's less fear of moulds that won't come free or lines that don't fair properly.

    Wouldn't any through-hull opening suggest a well? As with a daggerboard or (gasp) motor device? If the Hobie is removable, there has to be a means to keep water where it belongs....

    I haven't looked closely enough at the various pics & vids showing how it works installed in the Expedition canoes to tell much along those lines.
    Last edited by sp_clark; 09-14-2016 at 07:23 PM. Reason: verbiage

  20. #125
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    So it's been far too long since I've done any work on the little Canoe, bigger projects have been sucking my time away. But I got it out of the covers the other week to do some work on it again.




    Sadly I did a bit of a Whoopsie which will require some creativity to repair

    Don't you just hate it when you accidentally drop your boat...



    Anyway have some Carbon fiber that I can use to make a solid patch with and will try vacuum bagging it in a multiple layer layup and see how that goes.
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  21. #126
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Ouch!

    Good to see you back at it. These boats are so cool.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  22. #127
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Yeah didn't make for a fun day that one, took me a week or two before I could even look at the Canoe again. Back at it now though and hope to progress past this little upset in short order. To start with I thought I'd make the hole bigger, seemed the logical thing to do in order to fix it up

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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  23. #128
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Ouch indeed.
    I am, after about 10 years sailing, preparing my Mac for sale but as a paddle canoe as I consider it a bit too dangerous as a sailboat to sell it to someone not experienced.
    I found I needed a wave breaker on the deck forward of the mast as my local bay develops a short steep chop. I had also considered a 3/4 cockpit cover with a similar fitting.

  24. #129
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    What a shame Simon, and it's not gotten wet yet either. I hope you're able to patch that nice paintwork.

  25. #130
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Something I do not seem to have mentioned is the wear and tear (literally) on the keel in our shallow volcanic bay. Some time ago I decided that rather than a brass round, I'd use a strip of the joining plastic key for Yellow tongue flooring.
    Works a charm and it was free. I also made a fitting for a slot in skeg to use when rowing, I think my Mac is ever so slightly skew and tends to favour starboard.

  26. #131
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Anyway after ripping into the beautiful paint to make a space for the patch.


    I got to stare at this for a few hours while the glue cured.




    At the end of the day I was left with something I could continue to work with.



    So now it will get another layer or two and some build up with some resin which I can fair to shape and that will be the last I see of that stinking hole in my boat, with a little luck
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  27. #132
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    So I got back to the Canoe again in the last few weeks and discovered that I had a new visitor onboard using the canoe for his lodgings:



    So when we last left off I was fixing the hole, I can now happily report that the hole(s) are fixed.

    Evidence of the fix in progress.




    The Carbon Fibre was then sanded back and cleaned up before some paint was re-applied to the area, inside and outide of the hole were plastered with this epoxy/carbon fibre creation and applied via the vaccum setup.



    The vacuum chamber above helped maintain a more even pressure and allowed for a bit more rest for the Air compressor. I got good enough by the end that I could turn a tap off on the supply side of the vaccum, after the vacuum chamber and leave the setup with 25+Hg of Vacuum pressure without the need for assistance from the Venturi setup. Which was nice, made things much more peaceful without the aircompressor/venturi kicking on and off all the time.

    Anyway back to the Canoe

    I decided to switch pace for a bit after doing the paint back up on the outside and work on the hatches, and was dry fitting one of them when i found my 8 legged visitor :0

    The hatches were already cut some time back from marine ply and I decided to embellish them a little with a Veneer. So I set the Vacuum bag up again and got the Epoxy ready along with all the normal bits like peel ply, breather fabric, release film and a bag, all that fun stuff.




    You can see in the next photo that the Carbon Fibre has been covered with a too thick layer of undercoat which was sanded back before more paint went on, and the hatches are starting to look pretty.

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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  28. #133
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Now it was time to get the tools back out and do some work on the cockpit coaming.




    Dry Fitting the Coaming and holding it clamped in place before it was Glued in place forever.




    Next photo shows the dry fitting of the rails down the sides of the canoe, gunnels maybe? You can also see the Cockpit Coaming has been finished off and trimmed down where needed.




    That's all for now. More photos to come later as this week is Varnishing week. everything that needs it should get multiple coats with any luck.

    Getting closer now
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  29. #134
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Hey All,

    I'm using International Gold Spar Varnish for the bits that need it like the floor/sole boards and the deck and spars. Question though, it says to sand with 320 grit in between coats if left for greater than say 24 hours, depending on the weather. My question is this, how much do you need to sand it, just to take the bulk of the shine off the varnish? I've sanded down to a matte finish currently, but if I hold the sole/floor boards up to the light in the right angle i can still see some faintly shiny bits amongst the matte finish. Will try and get a photo tonight.

    Just as some background I've laid down 4 or 5 coats of varnish already, left it dry for a few weeks and am just sanding before putting down the next few coats.

    Cheers and happy building.
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  30. #135
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    The cleats in progress for securing the lines for the main and mizzen sails.




    Here's a shot of the decking before it got Varnished, with the new rub/gunnel rail screwed down for a dry fitting before I glued it on. I like this shot



    Started and finally finished work on the hardware for the gudgeon and pintle for the rudder hardware too. I think my drill must have been a bit blunt when i put these holes through though as it seemed to push the stainless out of the way rather than cut it out of the way....




    Marked out the location of everything and started getting it all ready to be screwed down into place before I removed it again and took it down the road to get TIG welded and finally permanently stuck in place.




    Cheers All, have a great Monday.
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  31. #136
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Found a neat setup for the Leeboard over on this Thread today. Also has a cool setup for the Rudder Pedals:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Lansdowne View Post


    Disregard the leeboard, but here is the front half of my rudder foot pedal arrangement.



    and here is how the lines connect to the tiller.
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  32. #137
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by simonmags View Post
    Found a neat setup for the Leeboard over on this Thread today. Also has a cool setup for the Rudder Pedals:
    I did a lot of digging and enquiring into that board set up and not found anyone satisfied with its performance. I would love someone to prove it works mind.

  33. #138
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    I have always used a single leeboard tethered to a fitting on the keel. Sailing a lot in very shallow water I used a trailing rudder with a blade that could be lowered to vertical in deep water. My floor boards and the pedals did stay for long, continuous rope steering with a spring tensioner, and once I got used to her the rudder sometimes as well, you could steer by moving your weight about and in desperate times a long canoe paddle. My rig was a single balanced lug, about 48 sq. ft.
    She was always a bit tender, and quick about it without another person or ballast, but I did a deal of touring and camping, perfectly docile with a week or two's gear on board. oh yes, I fitted rowlocks as well. She is very easily rowed even with a load..

    I'm sure I've already posted some of this stuff already.

  34. #139
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    Default Re: Macgregor Canoe

    Thanks Skuthorp, Yes I remember reading some of this in previous threads, possibly even in this one. Always happy to be reminded again though as it's good to hear from someone that has used one of these boats .

    I am at the stage of having a play with the rudder pedals currently, not sure how long they will last but will start with them when summer comes and see what happens from there... Just need to finalize how I'm going to fix everything down to the floor boards.

    Did some work last night on the rudder pedals but have to go back to the saddlery and get some more leather for the hinges. Did get my Spectra for lacing the sails etc yesterday though so that'll be fun.

    My patient wife had to ask what year I started this project as it's been out the back of the house so long it's almost become a fixture. Nice to have some progress on it this week though.
    My First Boat Build:
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

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