Page 1 of 3 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 105

Thread: Never mind....

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Provincetown, MA
    Posts
    4,428

    Default Never mind....

    Global warming cleverly hides itself with 1 million sq miles more arctic ice
    POSTED AT 5:01 PM ON SEPTEMBER 8, 2013 BY JAZZ SHAW


    The science is settled unsettling. Comedian Lewis Black said it best on his White Album when he asked, “Do you know what Meteorologist means in English? It means liar.” It seems that we now have more science to settle atop the mountains of previous science which all purports to prove one thing or another. You can decide on the reasons for yourself, but the arctic ice sheet is back with a vengeance.

    A chilly Arctic summer has left nearly a million more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year – an increase of 60 per cent.

    The rebound from 2012’s record low comes six years after the BBC reported that global warming would leave the Arctic ice-free in summer by 2013.

    Instead, days before the annual autumn re-freeze is due to begin, an unbroken ice sheet more than half the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to Russia’s northern shores.
    Good news for polar bears, if nothing else. But talks of a clear Northwest Passage seem to have fallen by the wayside. In fact, a few people who were counting on it rather heavily are left sort of… stuck.

    Only six years ago, the BBC reported that the Arctic would be ice-free in summer by 2013, citing a scientist in the US who claimed this was a ‘conservative’ forecast. Perhaps it was their confidence that led more than 20 yachts to try to sail the Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific this summer. As of last week, all these vessels were stuck in the ice, some at the eastern end of the passage in Prince Regent Inlet, others further west at Cape Bathurst.

    Shipping experts said the only way these vessels were likely to be freed was by the icebreakers of the Canadian coastguard. According to the official Canadian government website, the Northwest Passage has remained ice-bound and impassable all summer.
    Some of the analysts currently scratching their heads over how the planet stubbornly refuses to do what they insist it must are apparently now reflecting on some much older data. Reports are available which indicate a massive melting of the arctic ice sheet in the 1920′s and 30′s, long before the era of global climate studies. But then, it crashed into another period of increased freezing and expansion. The current photo has a few of them wondering if we might be in danger of heading into another ice age, which would be disastrous for mankind.


    Today’s UK Daily Mail gives more evidence that would have made my mother, of blessed memory issue a major Jewish Mother Sweater Alert because the Arctic Ice cap grew by 60% this past year and more scientists are warning of the coming ice age.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    58,083

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Art, two things.
    1. Don't confuse weather with climate.
    2. Take reports in the Daily Mail with a big pinch of salt, it is the Tory wives Faux news.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    40,782

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Ahhhhh the 1+1=0 denial crowd is at it again. yawwwwwwn

    For REAL scientist GW is not even an object of debate its a scientific fact. You're post is just politically motivated gobely gook
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Provincetown, MA
    Posts
    4,428

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Yet... the warming is missing. Whoops.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Provincetown, MA
    Posts
    4,428

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Yet... the warming is missing. Whoops.

    The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat
    by RICHARD HARRIS
    March 19, 200812:03 AM
    Listen to the Story
    Morning Edition
    Playlist
    Download
    Transcript
    Waipi'o Valley Lookout and Hamakua Coast in Hawaii
    Oceans hold much more heat than the atmosphere can.

    Stuart Westmorland/Corbis
    Climate Connections

    Get reports from around the world, backgrounders and videos of climate science in action from NPR's year-long series, Climate Connections.

    Antarctica's Sea 'Babies' in Limbo March 17, 2008
    Is the Planet's Carbon Sink Getting Too Full? Aug. 2, 2007
    With Climate Change Comes Floods Jan. 14, 2008
    More Stories from Climate Connections March 20, 2008
    Some 3,000 scientific robots that are plying the ocean have sent home a puzzling message. These diving instruments suggest that the oceans have not warmed up at all over the past four or five years. That could mean global warming has taken a breather. Or it could mean scientists aren't quite understanding what their robots are telling them.

    This is puzzling in part because here on the surface of the Earth, the years since 2003 have been some of the hottest on record. But Josh Willis at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory says the oceans are what really matter when it comes to global warming.

    In fact, 80 percent to 90 percent of global warming involves heating up ocean waters. They hold much more heat than the atmosphere can. So Willis has been studying the ocean with a fleet of robotic instruments called the Argo system. The buoys can dive 3,000 feet down and measure ocean temperature. Since the system was fully deployed in 2003, it has recorded no warming of the global oceans.

    "There has been a very slight cooling, but not anything really significant," Willis says. So the buildup of heat on Earth may be on a brief hiatus. "Global warming doesn't mean every year will be warmer than the last. And it may be that we are in a period of less rapid warming."

    In recent years, heat has actually been flowing out of the ocean and into the air. This is a feature of the weather phenomenon known as El Nino. So it is indeed possible the air has warmed but the ocean has not. But it's also possible that something more mysterious is going on.

    That becomes clear when you consider what's happening to global sea level. Sea level rises when the oceans get warm because warmer water expands. This accounts for about half of global sea level rise. So with the oceans not warming, you would expect to see less sea level rise. Instead, sea level has risen about half an inch in the past four years. That's a lot.

    Willis says some of this water is apparently coming from a recent increase in the melting rate of glaciers in Greenland and Antarctica.

    "But in fact there's a little bit of a mystery. We can't account for all of the sea level increase we've seen over the last three or four years," he says.

    One possibility is that the sea has, in fact, warmed and expanded — and scientists are somehow misinterpreting the data from the diving buoys.

    But if the aquatic robots are actually telling the right story, that raises a new question: Where is the extra heat all going?

    Kevin Trenberth at the National Center for Atmospheric Research says it's probably going back out into space. The Earth has a number of natural thermostats, including clouds, which can either trap heat and turn up the temperature, or reflect sunlight and help cool the planet.

    That can't be directly measured at the moment, however.

    "Unfortunately, we don't have adequate tracking of clouds to determine exactly what role they've been playing during this period," Trenberth says.

    It's also possible that some of the heat has gone even deeper into the ocean, he says. Or it's possible that scientists need to correct for some other feature of the planet they don't know about. It's an exciting time, though, with all this new data about global sea temperature, sea level and other features of climate.

    "I suspect that we'll able to put this together with a little bit more perspective and further analysis," Trenberth says. "But what this does is highlight some of the issues and send people back to the drawing board."

    Trenberth and Willis agree that a few mild years have no effect on the long-term trend of global warming. But they say there are still things to learn about how our planet copes with the heat.

    Related NPR Stories

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    12,292

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Ooops, sorry, I have mistaken you for a smart guy.
    Study Peace

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    n.c. tn
    Posts
    9,909

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Flying Orca keeps passing out links to sites with slightly less 'biased' articles.

    From over at the Smithsonian, we have this -

    Why Global Warming Has Paused—And Why It Will Soon Start Up Again -


    Over the past 15 years, a strange thing has happened. On one hand, carbon dioxide concentrations have kept on shooting up thanks to humans burning fossil fuels—in May, we passed 400 parts per million for the first time in human history.

    On the other hand, despite certain regions experiencing drastically warmer weather, global average temperatures have stopped increasing. Climate change deniers have seized upon this fact to argue that, contrary to the conclusions reached by major science academies (PDF) around the world, greenhouse gas emissions do not cause global warming.


    As it turns out, the truth is much grimmer. A pair of scientists from Scripps Institution of Oceanography have determined that the underlying process of global warming has merely been masked by natural decade-scale variations in the temperature of Pacific Ocean surface waters, related to the El Niño/La Niña cycle. Once that’s finished, our planet’s warming will march onward as usual.
    More at the site - & elsewhere, if you care to look. As Nick said, don't mistake weather for climate.

    enjoy!
    bobby
    Last edited by Durnik; 09-09-2013 at 06:02 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    here
    Posts
    18,299

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Kinda deceptive to just look at 2012 and 2013, isn't it?

    2012 was the lowest year on record for ice.

    2013 has more ice than 2012, but it's not like the ice sheet has actually recovered. Still less than the 1990s, the 1980s, the 1970s...


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    58,083

    Default Re: Never mind....


    One version of the Hockey Stick graph. It does not matter which version, 'cos it is the fluctuation around the trend line that I want you, Art to look at.
    The discovery of the slowing in warming due to the heat absorbed by the Pacific as discussed in your last post is one reason for the low values below the trend line.
    Your C&P finishes with:
    Trenberth and Willis agree that a few mild years have no effect on the long-term trend of global warming. But they say there are still things to learn about how our planet copes with the heat.
    So in a few years there may well be a peak above the trend line to balance it all out.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Provincetown, MA
    Posts
    4,428

    Default Re: Never mind....

    "...don't mistake weather for climate."

    I won't if you won't. Can we all agree "Sandy" was just another big storm and not mankind's punishment for driving SUVs and eating Big Macs?


    (BTW, how're you liking this climate change driven upsurge in tropical storms? Been brutal, eh?)
    Last edited by Art Read; 09-09-2013 at 08:22 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Phippsburg, ME
    Posts
    5,332

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Why is it so important to the deniers that global warming be proven wrong? Do they think it's some evil socialist plot? Is it that if proven wrong, we are justified in continuing the dumping of contaminants into the atmosphere as has been done so cavalierly until recently?

    Explain it to me, Art. Why do you so want it to not be true?
    Plures Naves Quam Mentes!

    More Boats Than Brains!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    40,782

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Z View Post
    Can anyone explain to me why some people are so adamantly opposed to the possibility of global climate change? What is threatened by accepting it may be true? I don't get it.
    Politically motivated not scientifically motivated
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    58,083

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Read View Post
    "...don't mistake weather for climate."

    I won't if you won't. Can we all agree "Sandy" was just another big storm and not mankind's punishment for driving SUVs and eating Big Macs?


    (BTW, how you're liking this climate change driven upsurge in tropical storms? Been brutal, eh?)
    Art, tell us do how much you understand about probability and weather event return periods.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    61,522

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Deliberately looking at the noise and ignoring the signal is a particularly bad form of intellectual dishonesty.

    What is threatened by accepting it may be true? I don't get it.
    Some people are threatened because they know that there is simply no way that relatively unrestricted capitalism can possibly reduce CO2 emissions. Increasing CO2 levels in the atmosphere is 'the tragedy of the commons' on a worldwide scale; one common atmosphere, no place to get away from it on earth, large individual benefits to burning fossil fuels, the bad effects distributed over the whole planet, and no way to control it but law - i.e. the threat of coercive force as embodied by governments. It's the ultimate refutation of Libertarianism. But reality doesn't give a sh!t abut political philosophies.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    here
    Posts
    18,299

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Art,

    Do you believe an honest man would describe this chart as showing an upward trend?


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Provincetown, MA
    Posts
    4,428

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Can you explain to me why it's okay to state that "Even if we're wrong, the policies that we're advocating would benefit the planet."? THAT'S politics over scien




    Peter Ferrara

    To The Horror Of Global Warming Alarmists, Global Cooling Is Here

    English: Ice age Earth at glacial maximum. Bas...
    (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

    Around 1250 A.D., historical records show, ice packs began showing up farther south in the North Atlantic. Glaciers also began expanding on Greenland, soon to threaten Norse settlements on the island. From 1275 to 1300 A.D., glaciers began expanding more broadly, according to radiocarbon dating of plants killed by the glacier growth. The period known today as the Little Ice Age was just starting to poke through.

    Summers began cooling in Northern Europe after 1300 A.D., negatively impacting growing seasons, as reflected in the Great Famine of 1315 to 1317. Expanding glaciers and ice cover spreading across Greenland began driving the Norse settlers out. The last, surviving, written records of the Norse Greenland settlements, which had persisted for centuries, concern a marriage in 1408 A.D. in the church of Hvalsey, today the best preserved Norse ruin.


    The Disgraceful Episode Of Lysenkoism Brings Us Global Warming Theory
    Peter FerraraPeter Ferrara
    Contributor

    As The Economy Recesses, Obama's Global Warming Delusions Are Truly Cruel

    Sorry Global Warming Alarmists, The Earth Is Cooling
    Peter FerraraPeter Ferrara
    Contributor

    Salvaging The Mythology Of Man-Caused Global Warming
    Peter FerraraPeter Ferrara
    Contributor
    Colder winters began regularly freezing rivers and canals in Great Britain, the Netherlands and Northern France, with both the Thames in London and the Seine in Paris frozen solid annually. The first River Thames Frost Fair was held in 1607. In 1607-1608, early European settlers in North America reported ice persisting on Lake Superior until June. In January, 1658, a Swedish army marched across the ice to invade Copenhagen. By the end of the 17th century, famines had spread from northern France, across Norway and Sweden, to Finland and Estonia.

    Reflecting its global scope, evidence of the Little Ice Age appears in the Southern Hemisphere as well. Sediment cores from Lake Malawi in southern Africa show colder weather from 1570 to 1820. A 3,000 year temperature reconstruction based on varying rates of stalagmite growth in a cave in South Africa also indicates a colder period from 1500 to 1800. A 1997 study comparing West Antarctic ice cores with the results of the Greenland Ice Sheet Project Two (GISP2) indicate a global Little Ice Age affecting the two ice sheets in tandem.

    The Siple Dome, an ice dome roughly 100 km long and 100 km wide, about 100 km east of the Siple Coast of Antartica, also reflects effects of the Little Ice Age synchronously with the GISP2 record, as do sediment cores from the Bransfield Basin of the Antarctic Peninsula. Oxygen/isotope analysis from the Pacific Islands indicates a 1.5 degree Celsius temperature decline between 1270 and 1475 A.D.

    The Franz Josef glacier on the west side of the Southern Alps of New Zealand advanced sharply during the period of the Little Ice Age, actually invading a rain forest at its maximum extent in the early 1700s. The Mueller glacier on the east side of New Zealand’s Southern Alps expanded to its maximum extent at roughly the same time.

    Ice cores from the Andeas mountains in South America show a colder period from 1600 to 1800. Tree ring data from Patagonia in South America show cold periods from 1270 to 1380 and from 1520 to 1670. Spanish explorers noted the expansion of the San Rafael Glacier in Chile from 1675 to 1766, which continued into the 19th century.

    The height of the Little Ice Age is generally dated as 1650 to 1850 A.D. The American Revolutionary Army under General George Washington shivered at Valley Forge in the winter of 1777-78, and New York harbor was frozen in the winter of 1780. Historic snowstorms struck Lisbon, Portugal in 1665, 1744 and 1886. Glaciers in Glacier National Park in Montana advanced until the late 18th or early 19th centuries. The last River Thames Frost Fair was held in 1814. The Little Ice Age phased out during the middle to late 19th century.

    The Little Ice Age, following the historically warm temperatures of the Medieval Warm Period, which lasted from about AD 950 to 1250, has been attributed to natural cycles in solar activity, particularly sunspots. A period of sharply lower sunspot activity known as the Wolf Minimum began in 1280 and persisted for 70 years until 1350. That was followed by a period of even lower sunspot activity that lasted 90 years from 1460 to 1550 known as the Sporer Minimum. During the period 1645 to 1715, the low point of the Little Ice Age, the number of sunspots declined to zero for the entire time. This is known as the Maunder Minimum, named after English astronomer Walter Maunder. That was followed by the Dalton Minimum from 1790 to 1830, another period of well below normal sunspot activity.

    The increase in global temperatures since the late 19th century just reflects the end of the Little Ice Age. The global temperature trends since then have followed not rising CO2 trends but the ocean temperature cycles of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) and the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO). Every 20 to 30 years, the much colder water near the bottom of the oceans cycles up to the top, where it has a slight cooling effect on global temperatures until the sun warms that water. That warmed water then contributes to slightly warmer global temperatures, until the next churning cycle.

    Those ocean temperature cycles, and the continued recovery from the Little Ice Age, are primarily why global temperatures rose from 1915 until 1945, when CO2 emissions were much lower than in recent years. The change to a cold ocean temperature cycle, primarily the PDO, is the main reason that global temperatures declined from 1945 until the late 1970s, despite the soaring CO2 emissions during that time from the postwar industrialization spreading across the globe.

    The 20 to 30 year ocean temperature cycles turned back to warm from the late 1970s until the late 1990s, which is the primary reason that global temperatures warmed during this period. But that warming ended 15 years ago, and global temperatures have stopped increasing since then, if not actually cooled, even though global CO2 emissions have soared over this period. As The Economist magazine reported in March, “The world added roughly 100 billion tonnes of carbon to the atmosphere between 2000 and 2010. That is about a quarter of all the CO2 put there by humanity since 1750.” Yet, still no warming during that time. That is because the CO2 greenhouse effect is weak and marginal compared to natural causes of global temperature changes.

    At first the current stall out of global warming was due to the ocean cycles turning back to cold. But something much more ominous has developed over this period. Sunspots run in 11 year short term cycles, with longer cyclical trends of 90 and even 200 years. The number of sunspots declined substantially in the last 11 year cycle, after flattening out over the previous 20 years. But in the current cycle, sunspot activity has collapsed. NASA’s Science News report for January 8, 2013 states,

    “Indeed, the sun could be on the threshold of a mini-Maunder event right now. Ongoing Solar Cycle 24 [the current short term 11 year cycle] is the weakest in more than 50 years. Moreover, there is (controversial) evidence of a long-term weakening trend in the magnetic field strength of sunspots. Matt Penn and William Livingston of the National Solar Observatory predict that by the time Solar Cycle 25 arrives, magnetic fields on the sun will be so weak that few if any sunspots will be formed. Independent lines of research involving helioseismology and surface polar fields tend to support their conclusion.”

    That is even more significant because NASA’s climate science has been controlled for years by global warming hysteric James Hansen, who recently announced his retirement.

    But this same concern is increasingly being echoed worldwide. The Voice of Russia reported on April 22, 2013,

    “Global warming which has been the subject of so many discussions in recent years, may give way to global cooling. According to scientists from the Pulkovo Observatory in St.Petersburg, solar activity is waning, so the average yearly temperature will begin to decline as well. Scientists from Britain and the US chime in saying that forecasts for global cooling are far from groundless.”
    The German Herald reported on March 31, 2013,

    “German meteorologists say that the start of 2013 is now the coldest in 208 years – and now German media has quoted Russian scientist Dr Habibullo Abdussamatov from the St. Petersburg Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory [saying this] is proof as he said earlier that we are heading for a “Mini Ice Age.” Talking to German media the scientist who first made his prediction in 2005 said that after studying sunspots and their relationship with climate change on Earth, we are now on an ‘unavoidable advance towards a deep temperature drop.’”

    Faith in Global Warming is collapsing in formerly staunch Europe following increasingly severe winters which have now started continuing into spring. Christopher Booker explained in The Sunday Telegraph on April 27, 2013,

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Provincetown, MA
    Posts
    4,428

    Default Re: Never mind....

    The German Herald reported on March 31, 2013,

    “German meteorologists say that the start of 2013 is now the coldest in 208 years – and now German media has quoted Russian scientist Dr Habibullo Abdussamatov from the St. Petersburg Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory [saying this] is proof as he said earlier that we are heading for a “Mini Ice Age.” Talking to German media the scientist who first made his prediction in 2005 said that after studying sunspots and their relationship with climate change on Earth, we are now on an ‘unavoidable advance towards a deep temperature drop.’”

    Faith in Global Warming is collapsing in formerly staunch Europe following increasingly severe winters which have now started continuing into spring. Christopher Booker explained in The Sunday Telegraph on April 27, 2013,


    The Disgraceful Episode Of Lysenkoism Brings Us Global Warming Theory
    Peter FerraraPeter Ferrara
    Contributor

    As The Economy Recesses, Obama's Global Warming Delusions Are Truly Cruel
    Peter FerraraPeter Ferrara
    Contributor

    Sorry Global Warming Alarmists, The Earth Is Cooling
    Peter FerraraPeter Ferrara
    Contributor

    Salvaging The Mythology Of Man-Caused Global Warming
    Peter FerraraPeter Ferrara
    Contributor
    “Here in Britain, where we had our fifth freezing winter in a row, the Central England Temperature record – according to an expert analysis on the US science blog Watts Up With That – shows that in this century, average winter temperatures have dropped by 1.45C, more than twice as much as their rise between 1850 and 1999, and twice as much as the entire net rise in global temperatures recorded in the 20th century.”

    A news report from India (The Hindu April 22, 2013) stated, “March in Russia saw the harshest frosts in 50 years, with temperatures dropping to –25° Celsius in central parts of the country and –45° in the north. It was the coldest spring month in Moscow in half a century….Weathermen say spring is a full month behind schedule in Russia.” The news report summarized,

    “Russia is famous for its biting frosts but this year, abnormally icy weather also hit much of Europe, the United States, China and India. Record snowfalls brought Kiev, capital of Ukraine, to a standstill for several days in late March, closed roads across many parts of Britain, buried thousands of sheep beneath six-metre deep snowdrifts in Northern Ireland, and left more than 1,000,000 homes without electricity in Poland. British authorities said March was the second coldest in its records dating back to 1910. China experienced the severest winter weather in 30 years and New Delhi in January recorded the lowest temperature in 44 years.”

    Booker adds, “Last week it was reported that 3,318 places in the USA had recorded their lowest temperatures for this time of year since records began. Similar record cold was experienced by places in every province of Canada. So cold has the Russian winter been that Moscow had its deepest snowfall in 134 years of observations.”

    Britain’s Met Office, an international cheerleading headquarters for global warming hysteria, did concede last December that there would be no further warming at least through 2017, which would make 20 years with no global warming. That reflects grudging recognition of the newly developing trends. But that reflects as well growing divergence between the reality of real world temperatures and the projections of the climate models at the foundation of the global warming alarmism of the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Since those models have never been validated, they are not science at this point, but just made up fantasies. That is why, “In the 12 years to 2011, 11 out of 12 [global temperature]forecasts [of the Met Office] were too high — and… none were colder than [resulted],” as BBC climate correspondent Paul Hudson wrote in January.

    Global warming was never going to be the problem that the Lysenkoists who have brought down western science made it out to be. Human emissions of CO2 are only 4 to 5% of total global emissions, counting natural causes. Much was made of the total atmospheric concentration of CO2 exceeding 400 parts per million. But if you asked the daffy NBC correspondent who hysterically reported on that what portion of the atmosphere 400 parts per million is, she transparently wouldn’t be able to tell you. One percent of the atmosphere would be 10,000 parts per million. The atmospheric concentrations of CO2 deep in the geologic past were much, much greater than today, yet life survived, and we have no record of any of the catastrophes the hysterics have claimed. Maybe that is because the temperature impact of increased concentrations of CO2 declines logarithmically. That means there is a natural limit to how much increased CO2 can effectively warm the planet, which would be well before any of the supposed climate catastrophes the warming hysterics have tried to use to shut down capitalist prosperity.

    Yet, just last week, there was Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson telling us, by way of attempting to tutor Rep. Lamar Smith (R-TX), Chairman of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, “For the record, and for the umpteenth time, there is no ‘great amount of uncertainty’ about whether the planet is warming and why.” If you can read, and you have gotten this far in my column, you know why Robinson’s ignorance is just another Washington Post abuse of the First Amendment. Mr. Robinson, let me introduce you to the British Met Office, stalwart of Global Warming “science,” such as it is, which has already publicly confessed that we are already three quarters through 20 years of No Global Warming!

    Booker could have been writing about Robinson when he concluded his Sunday Telegraph commentary by writing, “Has there ever in history been such an almighty disconnect between observable reality and the delusions of a political class that is quite impervious to any rational discussion?”

    But there is a fundamental problem with the temperature records from this contentious period, when climate science crashed into political science. The land based records, which have been under the control of global warming alarmists at the British Met Office and the Hadley Centre Climate Research Unit, and at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the U.S., show much more warming during this period than the incorruptible satellite atmosphere temperature records. Those satellite records have been further confirmed by atmospheric weather balloons. But the land based records can be subject to tampering and falsification.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    here
    Posts
    18,299

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Read View Post
    Can you explain to me why it's okay to state that "Even if we're wrong, the policies that we're advocating would benefit the planet."? THAT'S politics over science..
    No, that's just advocating for a good idea regardless of politics.

    An example of politics over science would be saying, "Even if we're wrong, this will help our people get elected.".... or, "We can't admit we're wrong because that would hurt our chances to get elected."

    But saying that a good idea would help the plant is not placing politics over science.

    Strange that you don't see the difference.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canadia
    Posts
    6,877

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Quote Originally Posted by ljb5 View Post
    Art,

    Do you believe an honest man would describe this chart as showing an upward trend?

    I'll just take my chances with those salt water joys.

    AR

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    58,083

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Peter Ferrara

    A 2005 profile for the Harvard Law Bulletin reported that Ferrara recalled at age nine "being transfixed while watching television as Barry Goldwater stormed the 1964 Republican National Convention."[2] Ferrara grew up in Phoenix, Arizona and graduated in 1976 from Harvard College with an A.B. in economics magna cum laude and from Harvard Law School in 1979 cum laude.[3][4][5] At Harvard, Ferrara wrote at the student newspaper The Harvard Crimson.[6] While in law school, he also participated in the Harvard Libertarian Association.[7] Future Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts attended both Harvard College and Law School with Ferrara.[4]

    From Wiki, describing some one with a thorough grounding in science and climatology.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    66,711

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Z View Post
    Can anyone explain to me why some people are so adamantly opposed to the possibility of global climate change? What is threatened by accepting it may be true? I don't get it.
    What is threatened is a story of life that worked to secure what one has.


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Martha's Vineyard
    Posts
    9,307

    Default Re: Never mind....

    I don't have much knowledge of this subject, but reading this thread it is pretty clear who is talking on the subject and who is doing the personal atacks.
    Conferences at the top level are always courteous. Name calling is left to the foreign ministers. (Averell Harriman)

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    30,698

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't it always been the contention of most experts that extreme weather events predict/presage and auger "Global Warming" (or climate change if you prefer) rather than disprove it?
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    21,987

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Nice troll, Art.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Provincetown, MA
    Posts
    4,428

    Default Re: Never mind....

    "Nice troll, Art."

    It's been ten years, at least, that I've been trying out this particular lure. Never fails. Nothing changes but the level of hysterical indignation, moral certainty and over the top hyperbole.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    21,987

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Art, you live on Cape Cod and are one of the most experienced sailors on here. I know that you know the weather has changed.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Dallas and points north
    Posts
    7,611

    Default Re: Never mind....

    I don't have much knowledge of this subject, but reading this thread it is pretty clear who is talking on the subject and who is doing the personal atacks.

    Amen Brother

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    here
    Posts
    18,299

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    i can understand your skepticism, and you don't have to have a political agenda to be skeptical. I myself am a bit skeptical of at least some of the claims from global warming hysterics.....
    There's a place for honest skepticism, but no honest person can look at this graph and declare that it shows an increase.



    That's the same data Art's opening post references.

    Worse yet, it apparently never even occurred to him to look at it.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Provincetown, MA
    Posts
    4,428

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Gareth, I've been watching the wooden steps we use to get to beach for over forty years now. Rebuilt 'em a few seasons ago. The sand level has changed, both up and down, but the sea level hasn't. I've listened to otherwise intelligent people SWEAR that the sea has fallen in their own lifetimes because it's shallower out where they moor their boats. (No, the "new" breakwater just shifted the local sand distribution.) I've seen horrible storm seasons and mild ones. The "old timers" stories of my youth about the "big storm of '38" are being replaced by our own about "Bob" and "Gloria". I've been offshore a bit. Seen my share of dirty weather. Been watching the seasons roll on here year 'round from the beach for a few years now. No. Can't say I've seen much change in the weather. Hot last summer, cold last winter, with occasional swings both ways. It's still "changeable"...
    Last edited by Art Read; 09-09-2013 at 09:03 PM.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Winnipeg MB
    Posts
    21,611

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Confirmation bias is alive and well.

    What are you doing about it?




  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Provincetown, MA
    Posts
    4,428

    Default Re: Never mind....

    "There's a place for honest skepticism, but no honest person can look at this graph and declare that it shows an increase."

    Since we're being so honest, why don't we go back even further? Say a hundred years?

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Provincetown, MA
    Posts
    4,428

    Default Re: Never mind....

    "Confirmation bias is alive and well."

    And political groupthink hasn't gone anywhere either...

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Winnipeg MB
    Posts
    21,611

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Read View Post
    And political groupthink hasn't gone anywhere either...
    Indeed. Good thing there's science as an alternative. Speaking of which - got science?

    Nah, I didn't think so.

    What are you doing about it?




  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Provincetown, MA
    Posts
    4,428

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Got warming? "Nah, I didn't think so."

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    here
    Posts
    18,299

    Default Re: Never mind....

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Read View Post
    Since we're being so honest, why don't we go back even further? Say a hundred years?
    Be my guest.

    But you're the one who started this thread. And you're the one who elected to use such an abbreviated data set.

    The data you did present was blatantly deceptive. And you haven't offered any other data.

    If you were intending to be honest, you didn't get off to a very good start.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •