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Thread: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

  1. #1
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    Default Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    I would like to start a thread to collect information related to the subject line. These are boats designed for one or two people to easily trailer, setup, sail for periods of time of generally a couple of days to a couple of weeks. I would like to catalog the various designs that are out there and discuss the merits of each along with an anecdotal observations and recommendations as to what creature comforts should be included or excluded. I have perused various threads but there hasn't been an all inclusive one for all the designs out there.

    What should show up here:

    Between 12ft and 19 ft 11&15/16 inches
    Cabin for two or two plus... realistically just two.
    Primary propulsion should be sail with motor and/or oar back up.
    Trailerable as in it resides on a trailer ready to go rather than only able to be moved a couple of times a year to and from a mooring.
    As easy to single hand as with crew... especially if crew is dog.
    Basic amenities... somewhere for food in and somewhere for food out.

    Looking to discuss interior layouts, trailering issues, performance issues rigging and derigging, Pros and cons of just about everything that you might bump into with this size of boat.

    Boat should be able to be transported and launched into lakes, estuaries, salt water bays and coves and should be able to fair weather sail along coastal shores within 3-5 miles of land... It should also be easily retrieved and trailered to the next lake, cove or whatever. As the boat on a trailer is kinda close to a camper... it should be able to work as that too with little difficulty.

    I know performance is always an issue but there are different kinds of performance...
    Speed of course... at an average of 16 ft of waterline... these aren't race boats and shouldn't be expected to be. We're talking fractions of a knot differences.
    Comfort... Wet or dry, stiff or more lax, amenities which help or hinder
    Upwind ability vs other considerations such as grounding (deliberate or not), maintenance issues of various bottom configurations, all the multitude of rigs available and possible. Setups of the rigs to facilitate single handing. Tips on line routing, leveraging (blocks and tackles, winches etc) and the pros and cons of use and maintenance.

    That's a lot of stuff to start with but filtering it with the restriction of less than 20 ft will sort out some of it. The whole aim of the thread is to try to distill some of the best of the many designs out there into a few optimal boats that incorporate what folks would want in something that small with the most desired performance features (all kinds of performance... not just speed and upwind but motoring, possibly rowing or skulling, drainage, ballasting etc.)

    Pictures of work-arounds or neat solutions to various problems or issues are especially welcome. I would like to hear the worst of the problems of this category of boats and see and hear about the solutions people have come up with to address them. I would prefer to keep this sub 20 ft however if a solution to an issue has been applied to something slightly larger that is fine here. I really am not interested in the "just go longer or here's one that is perfect at 25 ft or other comments along those lines.

    I am a firm believer in the saying "The smaller the boat, the more it gets used..." thus I believe that a capable "change pocket cruiser" of 20% under 20 ft would get 50% more use than something 20% over 20 ft. If it is sitting in your driveway ready to go to any lake you pick rather than sitting at a single lake on a dock... you have much more freedom to go where you please for as long as you please.

    Oh... and wood, plastic or other materials... all OK. I have a preference for building my own in wood but I have no problems with commercially available stuff. They can be gutted and done properly in wood too



    One of the reasons for this thread is that "you can't know about what you don't know about..." and I know there are many designs out there of which I have no clue (I don't know they exist)... so I can't research them. I am hoping to learn all about them in the coming responses that I am also hoping will come pouring in...
    Steve Lewis
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Lets start off with the UK's most successful small trailer sailor with over 1000 built, the Cornish Shrimper

    http://www.cornishcrabbers.co.uk/ind...ber.Shrimper19

    and the owners association http://www.shrimperowners.org/

    She was designed and built in plywood at first. Roger Dongray has a new design for building in plywood at this size but cannot find the links just now. She has just been featured in WaterCraft.

    Brian

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewisboater View Post
    I am a firm believer in the saying "The smaller the boat, the more it gets used..." thus I believe that a capable "change pocket cruiser" of 20% under 20 ft would get 50% more use than something 20% over 20 ft. If it is sitting in your driveway ready to go to any lake you pick rather than sitting at a single lake on a dock... you have much more freedom to go where you please for as long as you please.

    ..
    I agree with you 100+20% !

    but I wonder if displacement might be a much more relevant way to filter boats by "size" rather than using LOA. Displacement is a much better way to guestimate build cost and maintaineance cost and trailering demands than simply LOA.


    I realize that LOA is a easier # to come by so mabey thats why you chose that... but if we are really going to get into specifics then displacement is an essential part of the picture and any boat we dont have at least aproximate displacement #s for we probably dont have enough info on that boat to have a meaningfull discussion about the design.


    as we all know there are some easily trailered/ even portaged, 18' canoes and some monster sized 18' cat boats with palatial accomodations that would be a real beast to trailer.
    Last edited by Daniel Noyes; 09-02-2013 at 02:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    How big is your towing rig? That alone might determine how substantial your boat can be, from a half ton to three. And do you need the boat to ground out upright? "Motor and/or oar backup" - decide now! - if it's oars with a cabin, things get pretty specialized, as with a Norseboat.
    A small sailing craft is not only beautiful, it is seductive and full of strange promise and the hint of trouble. -- E.B. White

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    I agree with you 100+20% !

    but I wonder if displacement might be a much more relevant way to filter boats by "size" rather than using LOA. Displacement is a much better way to guestimate build cost and maintaineance cost and trailering demands than simply LOA.


    I realize that LOA is a easier # to come by so mabey thats why you chose that... but if we are really going to get into specifics then displacement is an essential part of the picture and any boat we dont have at least aproximate displacement #s for we probably dont have enough info on that boat to have a meaningfull discussion about the design.


    as we all know there are some easily trailered/ even portaged, 18' canoes and some monster sized 18' cat boats with palatial accomodations that would be a real beast to trailer
    Displacement is a factor but it is limited by the other stated parameters... Namely can it be ready to go for a weekend at a nearby lake? That 18' cat kinda disqualifies itself by being a beast to trailer (and probably set up too)... meaning it probably stays in one spot or at one lake the entire season, being put in and pulled out but once a year if that. The canoe is disqualified as it has no cabin, let alone one that sleeps two people with amenities. The displacement of the boat will necessarily be tempered by the other qualifiers... namely easy trailering at a moments notice (figure of speech but you get the idea). Miss Cindy would fit in here nicely however I doubt a Farthing 15 would be at all easy to trailer and get in and out of the water so you probably wouldn't count it here. Some of McNaughton's other stuff might come in here... even at over 3000 lbs displacement. Displacement isn't a disqualifier, however... how well that weight is manipulated in the design will determine if it fits in the overall theme of the thread.
    Steve Lewis
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by sailoar View Post
    How big is your towing rig? That alone might determine how substantial your boat can be, from a half ton to three. And do you need the boat to ground out upright? "Motor and/or oar backup" - decide now! - if it's oars with a cabin, things get pretty specialized, as with a Norseboat.
    Another factor to consider! If you only have small sub-compact then obviously that will factor into your calculations... that is why this thread should have/will have more than one ultimate result. I personally am not looking for anything in particular... I am looking to learn about all the boats that might fit into the medium range confines of the stated parameters. We'll end up with several boats that fit into overlapping ranges that will be good recommendations for folks popping in here and asking pretty much what I did. As to "motor and/or oar backup"... I don't have to decide... you don't necessarily need two oars to move a boat. An oar can be used effectively to move a boat... so can a yuloh



    This is an 8' foot pram stuck on a copier and zoomed to 250%. Ketch rigged with motor and Yuloh, which moves it along quite nicely.
    Steve Lewis
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Lets just get it out of the way and post these now:









    'nough said.


    Steven

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    I know... I have one as the desktop picture on my laptop and several rotate around with others pics on my desktop too. I would love to build one, however... I have a couple of builds to do before I dive into that one. It will probably be my last build so I can use it and savor it. So... in your opinion... what are it's merits and faults... discuss (like my class assignments used to say). Looking for as many opinions as possible so everyone please jump in. Compare it to your favorite or your most despised or any one in between.
    Steve Lewis
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    The new design based on a Danish beach pram i commisioned especially to suit the parameters you talk about. My initial quest is for a 2 berth with the rest of the space given over to good storage and a half decent galley, bearing in mind anything under 20ft is going to be basic. Im also drawing up an open version with "soft cabin" enclosure for those that are blessed with more sunshine. Trailer weight 750kg, loaded displacement 1500kg. Should be towable by any family saloon car.

    This was the initial impression drawing by Paul Fisher. Lines have been tweaked since. Im currently building the ballasted daggerboard. The centreplate shown was for impression use. The original was fitted with a daggerboard and its position in the hull takes up far less room than an equivelent centreboard, though we have discussed an off-set board, which could be an option with internal ballast. Still a work in progress, so this thread is definately of interest.

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    What about Atkin's Gretchen, and 18 foot leeboard cruiser for two. http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Gretchen.html

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewisboater View Post
    Another factor to consider! If you only have small sub-compact then obviously that will factor into your calculations... that is why this thread should have/will have more than one ultimate result. I personally am not looking for anything in particular... I am looking to learn about all the boats that might fit into the medium range confines of the stated parameters. We'll end up with several boats that fit into overlapping ranges that will be good recommendations for folks popping in here and asking pretty much what I did. As to "motor and/or oar backup"... I don't have to decide... you don't necessarily need two oars to move a boat. An oar can be used effectively to move a boat... so can a yuloh



    This is an 8' foot pram stuck on a copier and zoomed to 250%. Ketch rigged with motor and Yuloh, which moves it along quite nicely.
    if that is an 8 foot pram , then that is a 3 foot man.

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    O I'm going to enjoy this thread

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    if that is an 8 foot pram , then that is a 3 foot man.
    Wazzup shorty!... Actually it is a Nutshell blown up a tad... That thing is pretty amazing. Sails in just about any kind of weather, is great as a bus to get a lot of us across Lake Pepin when the wind is non existent, is beachable (the bow transom flips down and acts as a boarding ramp with a wet well to leave your soggy/sandy shoes). The mast steps at the corner of the slot... inside the cabin, and the mizzen is off to the side too just aft of the cabin. Big benches along each side with an open centerline.
    Steve Lewis
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    On the Eun Na Mara... a couple of it's qualifiers are going to be: it will need quite a bit of grunt from it's tow vehicle so that will be a big consideration, and running at 19 and change feet plus trailer tongue you are going to have to have a goodly sized spot to park it at the house. Having never even seen one in the wood so to speak... I would like to know more about the accommodations... Are they comfortable? Does everything fit properly? Can you actually use the spaces for what they are designated as? How difficult is the rigging... am I going to spend half the day doing it or is it reasonable? Anyone got any first hand knowledge on this?
    Steve Lewis
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats



    Very nice... and one I didn't know about. I like the leeboards and the open cabin area. The blurb doesn't give the displacement though... and from the lines I expect it to have some kind of internal ballast along the centerline. I might have to spring for the plans on that one to get more info. I expect it would be a decent build in strip, sheathed in glass... long on hours though. It is expected to be fitted with an aux outboard which is good. I like it.
    Steve Lewis
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    The new design based on a Danish beach pram i commisioned especially to suit the parameters you talk about. My initial quest is for a 2 berth with the rest of the space given over to good storage and a half decent galley, bearing in mind anything under 20ft is going to be basic. Im also drawing up an open version with "soft cabin" enclosure for those that are blessed with more sunshine. Trailer weight 750kg, loaded displacement 1500kg. Should be towable by any family saloon car.

    This was the initial impression drawing by Paul Fisher. Lines have been tweaked since. Im currently building the ballasted daggerboard. The centreplate shown was for impression use. The original was fitted with a daggerboard and its position in the hull takes up far less room than an equivelent centreboard, though we have discussed an off-set board, which could be an option with internal ballast. Still a work in progress, so this thread is definately of interest.
    Interesting concept... and I expect it will certainly appeal to a few. It is different from the run of the mill (if there is such a thing...) and so won't be to everyone's tastes (but then again... nothing ever is is it?). Please keep us updated on your progress (along with your own thread of course). I would like to see the internal layout when you have it worked out.
    Last edited by Lewisboater; 09-02-2013 at 09:13 PM.
    Steve Lewis
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    A Bolger Chebacco is just longer than your spec. I think but only weighs 1000 lbs. It's easy to rig and trailer and makes a great camp cruiser or daysailor.

    My son had a crudely built one given to him when he was 13 and single handed it all over the bay in winds up to 25 knots. He also spent a few night aboard at anchor in some nearby coves. His boat was not well built but I was very impressed with the design and would consider building one for myself someday.


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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewisboater View Post
    On the Eun Na Mara... a couple of it's qualifiers are going to be: it will need quite a bit of grunt from it's tow vehicle so that will be a big consideration, and running at 19 and change feet plus trailer tongue you are going to have to have a goodly sized spot to park it at the house. Having never even seen one in the wood so to speak... I would like to know more about the accommodations... Are they comfortable? Does everything fit properly? Can you actually use the spaces for what they are designated as? How difficult is the rigging... am I going to spend half the day doing it or is it reasonable? Anyone got any first hand knowledge on this?
    Well, I got to watch one get built over the past couple of years and sat in it just before launching. Snug but very workable feeling (at least while sitting on the hard). From some internet discussion I've followed they come in all-up at 1300kg/2800lbs so you're looking at a decent sized but not huge tow vehicle. There is a Volvo XC70 in my driveway right now that could probably tow it but I'd be happier with the 1500 Suburban. Hopefully she'll will be at the WBF in Port Townsend this week.

    I should have mine launched in about 2 years so I'll let you know more then.
    Steve

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    I spent a few months cruising the web for just such a boat to build, ie, using your criteria. Except, I was only looking at wooden boats, and only at ones where plans could be bought. This my list of boats I liked. A google search of each will quickly get you to some photos and specs of each, if they haven't already been posted here:
    1. Bolger's 'Chebacco'
    2. Gartside 20' centreboard sloop 'Spartan II'
    3. CMD's 'Mist'
    4. Seashell Boat's 'Golant Gaffer'
    5. Bjorn Thomasson Design 'Sharpie 600'
    6. Steve Redmond's 'Elver'
    7. Ricceli Yacht Design 'Rocky'
    8. Campion Sail and Design 'Apple'
    9. Antonio Dias 'Beach Point' 18'
    10. Hartley 18'

    Flat bottomed boats, you make the rockin' world go round.............

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    My own little pocket cruiser which I have yet to finish and launch. Ive been interested in trailerable for a while now so I am interested to see what people post on this thread. I started one about attaching an outboard to a boat like this below a while back - there is some useful information on that too...




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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewisboater View Post
    Interesting concept... and I expect it will certainly appeal to a few. It is different from the run of the mill (if there is such a thing...) and so won't be to everyone's tastes (but then again... nothing ever is is it?). Please keep us updated on your progress (along with your own thread of course). I would like to see the internal layout when you have it worked out.
    I agree she is out of the norm,thats partly the attraction and i dont expect she will appeal to everyone,she is pretty unique that there is no similar boat in production and that is probably down to the shape.
    When i get as far as interal layouts i will post here. She will carry a versatile rig of balanced lug, with or without jib and mizzen.

    In regards to plastic fantastic, and if you like a cabin clear of boards, the RedFox has a lot going for it.



    4 berths, standing headroom, seperate heads/shower compartment. Its a lot of boat in a short length and it apparently sails well too. Despite its advantages, the bilge boards put off a lot of potential buyers and a slightly larger version with a keel was produced. Just goes to show there is NO perfect boat for everyone. Mariette was drawn up specifically for 2 people being realistic about internal volume, just like many of the small Atkin designs that never attempted to squeeze too much accomodation in too small a hull.
    Last edited by skaraborgcraft; 09-03-2013 at 05:32 AM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    There are many many boats that meet your criteria of course. I'll just comment on the few that I've sailed.

    Hartley 14 - Nice boat but the cabin is definitely as small as you would ever want to go, sleeping only.

    Hartley 16 - Sails great, decent cockpit size. The cabin doesn't quite have sitting headroom for me unless I sit slumped. Good amount of room for sleeping in the cabin. I'm considering adding reclined seating against the rear cabin bulkhead of ours for more comfort. The cockpit is very wide so when sailing it hard you run a risk of falling down quite a distance.

    Although they are quite stable, they can flip. I sail on a lake where they sail only occasionally, and I've personally seen three go over on different occasions. Maybe four. One guy got his back up by leaning on the centreboard (he's a big fellah). They haven't invented reefing yet over here.

    Hartley 18 - Just as manageable as the 16 once in the water, but need a bigger tow vehicle probably, as it requires ballast in addition to the steel plate. Cabin size is much better with decent sitting headroom and a lot more space in general. Sails great as well, but not likely to get this one on the plane like the 16. The pic below shows one with the cockpit seats widened. This allows you to brace feet on the other side, very nice when sailing heeled. We've had this one over almost flat a couple of times, once with the spinnaker up. Came back up no problems. (It's for sale on Trademe if you want interior pics).


    -Thomas

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by johnno View Post
    I spent a few months cruising the web for just such a boat to build, ie, using your criteria. Except, I was only looking at wooden boats, and only at ones where plans could be bought. This my list of boats I liked. A google search of each will quickly get you to some photos and specs of each, if they haven't already been posted here:
    1. Bolger's 'Chebacco'
    2. Gartside 20' centreboard sloop 'Spartan II'
    3. CMD's 'Mist'
    4. Seashell Boat's 'Golant Gaffer'
    5. Bjorn Thomasson Design 'Sharpie 600'
    6. Steve Redmond's 'Elver'
    7. Ricceli Yacht Design 'Rocky'
    8. Campion Sail and Design 'Apple'
    9. Antonio Dias 'Beach Point' 18'
    10. Hartley 18'
    That's a good list but I'm not sure why Oughtred's Eun Mara and Wee Seal aren't on it.

    Jewell is another that could be considered: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?161012

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Vivier Jewell



    • To be trailerable by an ordinary car, and therefore light, and be able to beach temporarily for loading/unloading.
    • To have a large, wide and deep cockpit, comfortable, allowing for fishing and a place where children could be safe.
    • To have a stable hull for family sailing but give excellent performance for weekend sails “with the guys”.
    • To have a cuddy cabin, with a toilet for women and children, a small galley to heat some meals and two berths to spend a night or two on board, or for napping.

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Steve,

    I have the Atkin write-up with drawings for Gretchen's bigger sister - Helga - pdf if you're interested. LOA is 20'.

    Let me know.

    Gary

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    There are many Bolger options - I'll posit a few of his least likely ones: First, the humble, homely - but entirely functional and certainly easier to build than many named here - AS-19


    And Bolger's unballasted leeboard catboat Cynthia J

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Selways Morning Tide at 18ft 6in is a nice boat if you are into that traditional style.


    I would dare say quite capable for its size.

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    On and off over the years I have spent a lot of time thinking on this. I wobble a bit from concentrating on trailer-ability, and real seagoing ability. These are not mutually exclusive, but do not automatically come together.
    I sail in big water, and generally prefer it to smaller lakes. Also I would prefer not to be overly conscious, of the weather, hense the seagoing ability.
    I think of the boats already suggested...Atkins Gretchen would be my first pick, followed by Bolgers Chebacco, and the big cruising pram. Some of the others strike me as sort of caricatures, little boats trying to resemble bigger boats.....sorry...
    Trailer-ability.....What size of towing package.....Is it worth upgrading from a compact to a midsize or a small pickup.....For trailer-ability I often think smaller lighter boats that might tow behind a sub compact. I grew up with a boat on the trailer, which took some real time to set up, I remain nervous about complication for a dry-sailed boat.

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    The above thoughts/worries/concerns are very valid points when it comes to a trailer sailor. With the Mariette pram, i wanted to combine shallow ability, easy launching and recovery,but with a hull shape that has real offshore ability aswell as being able to beach through surf, not that many people may want the latter. As for rigging, im working on a free standing mast, but when used in conjunction with a jib,then a shroud either side with a few turns through an eye and lashed. The idea of spending more than 30 minutes rigging would put off many people if used primarily as a trailer boat, so i agree simple is best. Im still working on ballasting arrangments, but with a minimum of 50kg daggerboard and 30kg of that being a lead shoe on the bottom, having as much righting moment as possible will reduce the amount of extra ballast required inside. Water ballast is an option to keep trailer weight at a minimum, that will work fine on an open version, but reduce leg room on the cabin version. I wanted a craft that will tow on a single axle trailer rated at 1000kg, less intial expense, less maintanence. Still being a Folkboat owner, i have to deal with a tandam axle trailer and the vehicle to pull it, not forgetting the crane to launch and set the mast........i want something easier to live with.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Most of the boats so far discussed have stayed rigs, which can slow down the launch and retrieval process considerably. I know there are advantages, but it takes me a good hour from arrival at the ramp to rowing out to deep water, and that is in a 17' open sloop with a deck stepped mast. That takes the joy out of a quick afternoon sail. My next boat will probably be an unstayed lugger, so the only strings to reeve on the ramp are the halyard and downhaul. I miss the simplicity of launching the Sunfish (other things not so much).

    I think a trailer boat under 20' will (or should) be used as much a a day sailor as an overnight cruiser. A decent sized cockpit, and ability to move under oars are important.

    I also feel, that as has been mentioned above, that weight and draft are a real issues, both in terms of the tow vehicle required, and ability to launch at shallow ramps. If you already have a full sized pickup or SUV with a trailer package, that is one thing, but the big rig in my family is the Subaru, which would not be happy pulling an Eun Na Mara, Shrimper or Chebacco any distance (The tranny doesn't like hauling the Bat the length if I-89 to Burlington, VT).

    All boats are compromises, and the pocket cruiser has to make the most compromises.

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    And the Binnacle-bats wore water-proof hats
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  31. #31
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    I have the plans for this Gartside 19' 6" lugger http://store.gartsideboats.com/produ...ard-lugger-145 The accommodation is very spartan, but you could make the house a wee bit taller and longer, then it will easily sleep two adults. Although the website says the construction method is strip planked, my plans also have the details for glued clinker ply.
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Selways Morning Tide at 18ft 6in is a nice boat if you are into that traditional style.


    I would dare say quite capable for its size.
    I like it too, but its heavy.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    I chewed on the compromises a pocket yacht requires for quite a long time before settling in on Eun Mara. The fact that my significant other brought a Chevy Suburban with her when she moved in definitely helped twitch the meter a bit. I also have enough room around the place to keep my Deer Isle Koster for day sails.

    Mind you, I've also always kept 2 or 3 motorcycles in the garage to match my mood. The ex-wife said I had a transportation fetish...
    Steve

    Build your own boat. You win. Period.
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    I bought the plans for Eun Mara, and studied them for about a year before I decided that beautiful as it was, it just wasn't the right boat for me. Part of that decision was set-up/take-down time. I'm counting eight spars on that boat, which translates into some time spent at the ramp getting rigged, and longer taking it down to go home, normally when I'm already tired. Wee Seal doesn't have quite the same character as Eun Mara, but she grows on you quickly, and should be a lot quicker to rig. I bought the plans for her too.
    Al

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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana Marlin View Post
    My own little pocket cruiser which I have yet to finish and launch. Ive been interested in trailerable for a while now so I am interested to see what people post on this thread. I started one about attaching an outboard to a boat like this below a while back - there is some useful information on that too...



    Nicest boat in the thread, what design?
    whatever rocks your boat

  36. #36
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    I've long been a fan of the Bolger Stretch Micro in this category: lots of room and lots of boat for the money and build time. Eun Na Mara is twice as much of a boat, of course, but also far more complex and more expensive. If I understand the spirit of the quest here, this boat is closer to the mark. The main mast is on a tabernacle and counterweighted, so it swings up easily. Ducking under bridges -- no problem.




    But there are endless choices. Setting a dry weight cap would help define things much better. Most six cylinder vehicles will pull 3,500 pounds. Maybe a cap of one ton even for the boat? That would leave some room for the trailer and other gear.

    I sailed an 18' Sanibel, just like the one below, for 6 or 7 years. This boat turned out to be much better than I expected when I purchased it used. The design is self rescuing and self righting. It proved to sail faster than I expected and was a very happy little thing in the infamous Chesapeake Bay chop. For it's size, it's a dry boat. I also sailed it around the Cape Cod islands. It never gave me a scare -- its beam, somewhat deep hull and 400 pounds of ballast were enough to keep it upright. Below, it was roomy enough and comfortable enough to live in for several days at a time. The centerboard is offset and tucked under a berth face. Loads of stowage space. (They used to advertise sleeps 4 -- now that part was a joke.)
    My point is that if you average things out as far as beam, length, displacement, and put on enough cabintop to create headroom below, an 18' boat can be all you need.

    I bought this because I wanted a boat that would serve as a short-term cruiser as well as a daysailer, and I used it both ways as long as I owned it. Any bigger or smaller, and it would be hard to acheive both in most designs, I would say.

    Last edited by Woxbox; 09-03-2013 at 10:02 PM.
    Everybody has a right to be stupid, but some people abuse the privilege.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Subscribed

  38. #38
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    The Glen-L Tango might be the plywood equivalent of that Sanibel, with some modifications like offsetting the centerboard etc: http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/tango.html
    A small sailing craft is not only beautiful, it is seductive and full of strange promise and the hint of trouble. -- E.B. White

  39. #39
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G. View Post
    Nicest boat in the thread, what design?
    Thanks. she is a Gartside #93. I added the little cubby but otherwise she is as drawn.




    I had put off finishing her because I diverted my attention and time to restoring and sailing Melita back, but now with Melita gone I will get back to the little cutter and get her sailing by next summer I hope... (I just need to bring her over to Iceland since she is in Malta at the moment)

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by sailoar View Post
    The Glen-L Tango might be the plywood equivalent of that Sanibel, with some modifications like offsetting the centerboard etc: http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/tango.html

    Good point, Sailoar. All the numbers are pretty close. This brings to mind another point. When you want to live in an 18' boat, it's going to have a fat or boxy or balloon-like look to it. Some designers are better at disguising this than others, but you just need interior volume. The specs here are a trailerable boat, so you can't solve the problem with beam -- aka catboat. There are some sharp little catamarans that can work, however.

    Here are a couple more images for discussion.

    The West Wight Potter is maybe the ugliest production boat in this category, but the owners love them, and long cruises have been accomplished. They get the job done.



    And then there are the catamarans. If you haven't read the Travels of Miss Cindy, you need to.

    Everybody has a right to be stupid, but some people abuse the privilege.

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Quote Originally Posted by almeyer View Post
    I bought the plans for Eun Mara, and studied them for about a year before I decided that beautiful as it was, it just wasn't the right boat for me. Part of that decision was set-up/take-down time. I'm counting eight spars on that boat, which translates into some time spent at the ramp getting rigged, and longer taking it down to go home, normally when I'm already tired. Wee Seal doesn't have quite the same character as Eun Mara, but she grows on you quickly, and should be a lot quicker to rig. I bought the plans for her too.
    Al
    Funny, I went the other way. After lofting Wee Seal I just didn't have a good feel for her so went with EM instead, the molds are hanging on the wall right now along with 4 of 8 spars so I'm really in it now. Rigging and unrigging does loom in the back of my mind though. I'll just have to figure out how to make it relatively quick. The tabernacle stepped mast should help and right now I'm thinking of using a series of deadeyes for the standing rigging with enough line to keep them shackled to the hull.

    So much of what works is a matter of expectations. I come to this after making numerous motorcycle camping treks across the US and a fair amount of time in a VW Vanagon camper so I get minimalist travel.
    Steve

    Build your own boat. You win. Period.
    J. McMullen

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Looking again at the OP it seems clear he is considering dry sailing from a trailer. We come again to the towing package.....
    perhaps we need ( in order to respond to the OP) define what the limits are.
    Boats in this catagory might be class 1 ( up to 2000lb) or 2 (up to 3500lb ) or class 3 (up to 5000lb). We trailered a 20 foot boat weighing ~3600lb+ ~1000 trailer=4600lb.
    Many cars today are not rated for towing, and you could void your warranty if you do.
    A sub-compact might reasonably tow < 1000lb
    ETC.
    Between the Atkins and Bolger to name just two (well 3) there must be hundreds of designs that meet the OP criteria. Depending on the desires on the operator for more or less rustic accommodation? How limber is the crew for crawling into and out of the cabin? What auxiliary might you consider rowing, skulling, motoring?

    FWIW If I am considering dry sailing I'd tend to look for a smaller simpler boat and give up on some of the greater comforts, keeping in mind the potential for a crew of two for cruising.

    Any boat in this range should be able to be single handed safely......

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Can you please tell us the designer of this boat? Thanks.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  44. #44
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    To which boat are you referring?
    Steve Lewis
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  45. #45
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Windrush, below fits the criteria.She is 20 feet long and was trailered. Cruised 2 or 3 as family......for 17 years and several thousand miles. She was not easily trailered nor easily rigged after launching. I am not really recommending her because she only barely fits the criteria. She is a great sailboat and great small cruiser.
    I have posted a photo mainly to recommend going with a full width cabin in a really small cruising sailboat. We had sitting headroom for an adult throughout the cabin. No small feat. On a small cabin cruising boat I would not consider having a trunk cabin again, rather it would be full width as Windrush was.

  46. #46
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Full width cabins certainly make a lot of sense with regards to internal space and extra bouyancy in a knockdown. The little Morning tide i posted a picture of has that set up, and i have drawn Mariette with a full width cabin. On a small boat the size in question, i would call it a no-brainer, and far more sensible than a side deck that makes you go forward as if walking on a tight-rope. Construction will be stronger,easier and faster with a full width cabin.

  47. #47
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Let's not forget about the Cape Cutter 19 (see http://www.capecutter19.com/). Many buy the GRP version, but Dudley Dix sells plans and many are built by amateurs (visit http://www.dixdesign.com/amateurs-lapstrake.htm).








  48. #48
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    The "PocketShip" from Chesapeake Light Craft? http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/b...uiser-kit.html Can be towed by 4-cylinder car a big plus. -- Wade

  49. #49
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Though I am not a big fan of the PocketShip, there is a lot to recommend this form of plywood constuction. Many of the designers these days use the same system of integrated frames and sheathing, and produce very strong light hulls. One probably needs to be more patience working with fibreglass than I usually muster, but that is my thing.

  50. #50
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    Default Re: Sub 20' pocket cruising (cabin) sailboats

    Hello, I have just one or two posts o n the forum but I have been lurking around for years. I love all the boats mentioned, I am a big fan of Paul Garside designs, #93 beautiful with the cubby. Sjogin one of my current favorite, and Surprise the boat that introduced me to Paul's design years ago. I really love this thread to but in this regard all the boat (most) are bigger then my current search. So in order not to hijack this thread I will start a new one called " beachable campers" And will put some first thoughts and parametres. See you there!

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