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Thread: Harry Bryan Betty

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Just got done gluing the chine logs with G Flex. I cut them a hair oversize. I'll pass them through the planer after they cure and then add the rivets at the scarfs.
    They seem to have enough flex to only require steaming from frame 3 to the stem.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Been tweaking the frames to get everything fair. Made up 5 long battens. Need another 5 for lining off.
    It's getting fairly fair!
    The panoramic photo distorts things a bit.
    Last edited by Reynard38; 12-18-2013 at 06:29 PM.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Definitely cool.
    Chuck Thompson

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Well I'm going to remake the chine logs. Despite being fairly dry (I had to steam bend them so I didn't want kiln dried timber) they really tweaked on me afterwards.
    After working with Cypress on the Coquina (a real pleasure to work with BTW) the white oak is a real PITA.
    Also considering planking her glued lapstrake like the Coquina. Reason is there is a very good chance she will be living on a boat lift when we move to Charleston as a lot of the properties are tidal creek. Everybody seems to keep their boat on a lift. The glued lap wouldn't mind the wet/dry nature of this.
    This also solves the problem of getting good quality planking stock.
    As the glued lap is much stronger than the 9/16 juniper I'm thinking of removing a few frames. The coquina hull was amazingly strong and stiff before the ribs went in. I'm thinking of removing every other frame and replacing them with removable forms. Easy to make as I already have the frames made up. This would save a good bit of weight.
    I've got the glued lap boatbuilding book so I'll reread the appropriate chapters. I'm thinking 1/2" (12mm) meranti.
    I haven't decided what to do about the stem. I've got the rabbets cut. I could use it or make one out of laminated cypress like I did for the coquina (inner and outer stem.
    Was getting pretty discouraged last night thinking about it, but in the light of day I'll just chalk it up to a learning experience.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    How about 1/2" glued lap up to the chine, then trad lap after that?




    Steven

  6. #106
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    I'm using 3/8 Meranti glued lap for the sides of my 22' 60 HP runabout. Two 3/8 sassafras courses cold molded style for the bottom.

    Chris Craft Sea Skiffs used 3/8 fir ply, clench nailed and glued together with steam bent frames for their 22' boats.

    Re: the stem rabbit. If it's cut for 9/16 planking couldn't you just plane off the difference between 9/16 and the new plank thickness?
    Denny Wolfe
    www.wolfEboats.com

  7. #107
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    How about 1/2" glued lap up to the chine, then trad lap after that?




    Steven
    That's an idea. Have to see what the Juniper from my sawyer looks like.
    BTW I'll be up your way later this month. Funny how it's easy to get layovers in Maine in January!
    Plan on doing a bit of shopping at Hamilton Marine.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  8. #108
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by mcdenny View Post
    I'm using 3/8 Meranti glued lap for the sides of my 22' 60 HP runabout. Two 3/8 sassafras courses cold molded style for the bottom.

    Chris Craft Sea Skiffs used 3/8 fir ply, clench nailed and glued together with steam bent frames for their 22' boats.

    Re: the stem rabbit. If it's cut for 9/16 planking couldn't you just plane off the difference between 9/16 and the new plank thickness?
    Should be about to plane the stem. Also thinking about taking it to the bandsaw and cutting it along the rabbet line thereby making a 2 piece stem. Then I could plane only the outer 1/2 as the inner 1/2 would work fine as is. This will keep more of the structure in place.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I made chines for a 24 footer out of clear Doug Fir ,available dry through Randal Bros . in Atlanta .It glues well and is strong and stiff . I laminated 2 layers right on the molds. Each lamina consisted of 2 pieces scarfed together. Since the chine increased in width considerably going forward these 2 pieces were different widths ,aligned on one edge . It's remained very stable .
    Last edited by Bill Perkins; 01-05-2014 at 12:16 PM.

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Wow Reynard nice build looking forward to more. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that you had other builds on the forum. Would you have the links for those builds I would like to check them out too.

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I'll make planking patterns out of 1/4" luan doorskins. It's cheap and stable.
    Here is a link to the Coquina Build. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ina&highlight=

    Thanks for the tip for the DF at Randall Brothers. I'll go pick some up early this week.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Should be about to plane the stem. Also thinking about taking it to the bandsaw and cutting it along the rabbet line thereby making a 2 piece stem. Then I could plane only the outer 1/2 as the inner 1/2 would work fine as is. This will keep more of the structure in place.
    If you did that (cut along rabbet) it would be easier to plank.
    Denny Wolfe
    www.wolfEboats.com

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    I'll make planking patterns out of 1/4" luan doorskins. It's cheap and stable.
    Have you considered picking up the plank shapes with two battens and hot glued X bracing (post #20 my 22' runabout a'buildin thread). I built an Arctic Tern with the 1/4 ply patterns and my new boat with the battens. Batten method was much easier
    Denny Wolfe
    www.wolfEboats.com

  14. #114
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Your build jig has a strong clockwise warp.

    When finished your boat is going to hunt clockwise ...you will be trapped in a vortex.

    young boys will point and laugh as you circle the creek ,unable to escape till your fuel runs dry.....

    beware...


    subir imagen

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by mcdenny View Post
    Have you considered picking up the plank shapes with two battens and hot glued X bracing (post #20 my 22' runabout a'buildin thread). I built an Arctic Tern with the 1/4 ply patterns and my new boat with the battens. Batten method was much easier
    I like this idea. Battens are easier to make as well.
    Not having the wrestle and scarf additional 1\4" luan is a BIG plus.
    Thanks!
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  16. #116
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Picked up some DF today. One 12x2 12' long. Enough to get the chine logs and shear clamps from.
    Got it from Randall Brothers. I didn't realize they owned the old Narjoe lumber near Atlantic station. Hadn't been down there in years and I thought it was gone. The lumber warehouses look like they survived Sherman's march!
    The DF is MUCH nicer to work with. Got the chines cut out, scarfed and glued today. Now I can get this project moving again!
    Thanks to all for the advice. I am planning on cutting the stem along the rabbet line, And putting the 1/2's back together after the planks are on.
    I like tradition, but I love being on the water more!
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Hey Mark. Looking good there. For what it is worth, I was very happy with the trussed batten method of pulling the plank shapes.
    My Sooty and other boats: https://lingeringlunacy.com/

  18. #118
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Picked up some DF today. One 12x2 12' long. Enough to get the chine logs and shear clamps from.
    Got it from Randall Brothers. I didn't realize they owned the old Narjoe lumber near Atlantic station. Hadn't been down there in years and I thought it was gone. The lumber warehouses look like they survived Sherman's march!
    The DF is MUCH nicer to work with. Got the chines cut out, scarfed and glued today. Now I can get this project moving again!
    Thanks to all for the advice. I am planning on cutting the stem along the rabbet line, And putting the 1/2's back together after the planks are on.
    I like tradition, but I love being on the water more!
    Have you ever bought anything from Peach State Lumber? I'm planning on driving down and getting some iroko from them.

    Ken

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I have. Bought he poplar for my Coquina Spars from them as well as the white oak for my sawn frames in the Betty. Good guys. They will bring out the stack and let you pick through it.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  20. #120
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Call Stephen Brown at CAG lumber 770-869-3377.
    www.caglumber.com
    Thanks. It's been a while since I've been out to Stephen's place. He's been busy. Nothing for the table, but plenty for the future, and Carlton's came through. He tends to cut yard trees (as opposed to forest trees,) might explain your trouble with the oak chine logs.
    How will removing frames effect fitting out the interior? Easier? More complicated? You'd only save about 100lbs, so make sure that it's worth it.

  21. #121
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    BTW I'll be up your way later this month. Funny how it's easy to get layovers in Maine in January!
    Plan on doing a bit of shopping at Hamilton Marine.

    Let us us know when you'll be here. Maybe we can join you for dinner this time.



    Steven

  22. #122
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Picked up some DF today. One 12x2 12' long. Enough to get the chine logs and shear clamps from.
    Got it from Randall Brothers. I didn't realize they owned the old Narjoe lumber near Atlantic station. Hadn't been down there in years and I thought it was gone. The lumber warehouses look like they survived Sherman's march!
    The DF is MUCH nicer to work with. Got the chines cut out, scarfed and glued today. Now I can get this project moving again!
    Thanks to all for the advice. I am planning on cutting the stem along the rabbet line, And putting the 1/2's back together after the planks are on.
    I like tradition, but I love being on the water more!
    Now that is good boat wood I think we can all agree ( both coasts) . Stronger for it’s weight than oak . I made allot of my boat out of it . I made a critical sketch of my cabin structure on my lumber list as I waited to be loaded at that yard one morning .

    I knew you would have an interesting field trip to Narjoe . When the big planer is running it's noise is accompanied by a distinctive bap-bap-bap .The shavings are sucked away to fire a boiler,live steam is piped back to run a steam engine that in turn runs the planer. They at least used to do pressure treatment of SYP right there . They treated some 24 foot pine for me once .Not considered a special order,just put in the chamber with the other wood one day .Not many weeds growing in that yard .It's bizarre how the regradeing of the former steelyard site towers over Narjoe now.

    The buildings are amazingly old ,from a time when quite large structures were built with hammer and nail , bolted and braced solid sawn lumber . Did you ever see the old lumber barn at Carolina Lumber ? That was medieval in feel .


    Last edited by Bill Perkins; 01-07-2014 at 10:52 PM.

  23. #123
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Let us us know when you'll be here. Maybe we can join you for dinner this time.



    Steven
    I will be in Portland all day in the 13th and again on the 24th.
    Love to get together.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  24. #124
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Perkins View Post
    I'm wondering if the Long Lines : sheer and chine in plan and profile ; have ever been lofted? I remember reading the WB article on Handy Billy . The pro builders built the molds directly from the offsets but had to fair up the erected framework , if I recall correctly.
    I was going back over the thread and found this post. Yes I did have to do some tweaking to get the chine fair after building the molds from the offsets. The sheer notches I'll cut afterwards with a batten in place.
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  25. #125
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Things are going much better with the DF chine logs. Started installing the starboard side.



    Of course I cut the stem along the rabbet line first. Getting the bronze bolts out was a bit of work though.



    Gonna do 1 side at a time, and then just the first 4 frames.
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  26. #126
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Finished gluing the chine logs to the frames this morning. After beveling them I'll need to start lining off for the planks.
    As I am going glued lap I am deciding what thickness marine ply I'll use. I'd like to use 12mm on the bottom and 9mm on the sides, but I am concerned the 12mm might not make the twist at the stem.
    I tired a scrap of 6mm leftover from the Coquina build and it bends and twists easily from frame 2 for the stem bevel.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  27. #127
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Planking--that's exciting.
    Chuck Thompson

  28. #128
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Chuck you're up early on a Sunday morning. Feeding the horses?
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  29. #129
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Would it defeat the benefit of glued lap to make built-up strakes from two layers of 6mm at the twisty bits?
    A boatless inlander, searching for the meaning of life-aground.

  30. #130
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I have been considering this as a possible technique. Sort of a cold molded lap strake. The 6mm is so easy to bend and twist I think I might be worth the extra effort.

    As I ponder this question over a vanilla latte this is my view.



    Out for my morning walk on a layover. Not a bad day "here".
    Last edited by Reynard38; 01-13-2014 at 12:08 PM.
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  31. #131
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Shoot--by 8:51 I've done a lot of stuff and am starting to contemplate lunch and a nap.

    I forced 6mm to do much harder bends to the stem (on my Chris Craft). If it were me, I'd test your 12mm to see if it will do it. It might. That way you don't have to worry about voids between layers of 6mm. When they have to bend, it is hard to make sure they are touching between the faces. I had to do this:

    Last edited by chuckt; 01-13-2014 at 02:50 PM.
    Chuck Thompson

  32. #132
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Yow! That looks like a lot of work!
    Think I will glue some long scraps of 6mm together and see how it bends and twists.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  33. #133
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I just sent you a PM. I couldnt find your number.

    Steven

  34. #134
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    With just the beveling of the port chine log left before she's ready for planking I'm now reading about lining off. I picked up Iain Oughtred's book on Clinker Ply at Hamilton marine in Portland last week. It's got a good chapter on this subject.
    I have the plans that I can take some measurements from and many photos of a completed Rambler 23 (thanks Dave and Harry).
    Looking at one pic I'm wondering if the first plank above the chine could be a bit wider. What do y'all think?



    And one afloat

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  35. #135
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Well that plank has bottom paint on it. I think it looks fine.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  36. #136
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I would agree that the first plank could be wider , especially as the width of the spray rail reduces the plank's apparent width forward .You'll have some fun working this out . I guess you'll start by placing battens to simulate the designer's layout . That's what I did on my build and ended up not changing them .
    Last edited by Bill Perkins; 01-19-2014 at 03:23 PM.

  37. #137
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Well the chine logs are on and beveled. Working on the Shear clamp now. Used a laser on a sliding jig to mark it. The laser is self leveling.



    The top of the strong back is 36" below (above?) the DWL. Simple matter to measure down a measurement taken from the lofting.
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  38. #138
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    One confidence builder was while is was marking the DWL at frame 1 I noticed on the plans that the DWL just kissed the top of the floor at frame one. When I set up my laser, yep it just touched the top of said floor.
    That was a good feeling as this is my first lofting experience.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  39. #139
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Photobucket had been a PITA lately so I have not been posting pics as often.
    Been working on the shear clamps. The plans showed these on the inside of the frames, but the pics I have of the one that Harry built showed otherwise.
    Well I didn't like the idea of the deck/side planking joint hanging out in space so I did it this way. I laminating these in as the turn/twist at the stem is pretty severe. First lam starboard side.

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  40. #140
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I find it interesting that both of the completed boats pictured above use a painted sheer stripe which is not the full width of the plank.

    That makes me think that you're onto something. The lower strake could be wider, and take away the difference from the sheerstrake.
    A boatless inlander, searching for the meaning of life-aground.

  41. #141
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Good point. I wondered about the painted shearstrake as well.
    I'll be starting to line off the hull very soon. I'll post some pics of the battens then.
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  42. #142
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Lousy day to sail, good day to build!

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  43. #143
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    The rubstrip at the top of the shearstrake measures out to 1 3/4 inch. For starters I'm going measure the dimension at frame 5 (the midpoint of the hull) subtract out the 1 3/4 and divide by 4. Then I'll add the 1 3/4 back in to the shearstrake width.
    I'll try this at the stem and transom too then spring the battens and see how it looks.

    On the bottom I'll add a bit to the garboard dimension. There are 6 planks there.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  44. #144
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Regarding the strakes, have you made a copy of the photo and drawn the new lines you want on them? I agree that they could be tweaked a little bit fore and aft. I also think that I would not put bottom paint on the vertical surface of the one strake at the waterline, just the last 4' portion aft of where it meets the true waterline. Might look a little funny on land but in the water it might add to the visual effect that the boat is floating above the water instead of in it.

  45. #145
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Well I got motivated today and started lining off. I took the dimension from top of shear to the break at the chine, subtracted the width of the rub strake and divided by 4 planks. Made 3 that width and added the rub strake width back for the shesrstrake.
    The panoramic photo distorts things a bit but here is the result:

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  46. #146
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I was happy with the plank lines, so I transferred them to the other side with a tick strip. Now it's time to figure out how many sheets of marine ply this is going to require.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  47. #147
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Stay tuned for planking.
    I'm testing the ability of 1\2" AWC to make the bend twist here. I knew I bought those big a$$ clamps for a reason.

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  48. #148
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Which edge of the battens is the "telling" edge?

    Bottom of batten (side facing up) = bottom of strake?
    A boatless inlander, searching for the meaning of life-aground.

  49. #149
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Bottom of batten.
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  50. #150
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    So I've been reading and talking to boatbuilding friends as well as looking at a lot of boats that look a bit like the Betty.
    After MUCH consideration I've decided to strip plank her and cover her with a layer of either glass or Xynole and epoxy. There is a very good chance she will live either on a trailer, or a boat lift much of the time. Also the boats she mimics, lobster and Chesapeake deadrise skiffs are carvel constructed or similar (not lapstrake).
    I had a friend of mine photoshop out the lap lines to see what she'd look like. I liked it as it seemed to show off the tumblehome more.
    Another issue was the local un availability of marine plywood. Plus I just didn't want to work with 8' sheets of 1/2 ply. The strip construction is a lot easier in my small shop.
    Anyway as the plans called for 9/16" cedar I'm using 1\2" cypress strips. The numbers for cypress are all higher ME, MR etc. it is a little heavier. I calculated 74 pounds for the entire hull. It is plentiful here and I got some with @ 18 rings per inch. It's also cheap, $2.87 per BF.

    Also the missing 1/16" will be made up for by the sheathing.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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