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Thread: Harry Bryan Betty

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Got 4 frames together with G Flex. Need to make the cut for the keel batten, and then install the rivets.
    While the glue was curing I decided to make the patterns for the 3 stem pieces.

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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Well that didn't take long.



    Now to glue together frame #7
    The cheap "white wood" at Home Depot makes great patterns. Soft so the nail heads make a good imprint, and a sharp plane makes easy adjustments to the fit.
    Last edited by Reynard38; 09-10-2013 at 07:34 PM.
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  3. #38
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Got the white oak timber for the keel and stem lumber.
    20' by 12x2. Not a single knot.



    I plan on rough cutting the keel from this in the driveway using patterns.
    Last edited by Reynard38; 09-13-2013 at 05:41 PM.
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  4. #39
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    7 of the 10 frames are glued up. Decided to take a diversion and cut out for the keel batten.



    Did 3 this morning. The block in one of the cutouts is the exact height and width of the batten. Amazing how a bit a machining makes a part look a lot more "boat like"

    Well it's mid 70's today with 8 knots and low humidity.
    A better day for sailing is hard to come by. I'm off to the lake.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    NIce piece of WO. If my experience is any guide, that White Oak will want to move around and check as it dries. It really helped me to follow JIm Ledger's example and seal it up with CPES. I also tried shellac. Jim said shellac didn't work as well for him but I had good results. I slobber the shellac it on pretty thick.

    I was kinda leery of doing this--particularly the CPES. But some of my lumber was starting some serious checking after being cut so I felt I had to do something
    Chuck Thompson

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Well that didn't take long.



    Now to glue together frame #7
    The cheap "white wood" at Home Depot makes great patterns. Soft so the nail heads make a good imprint, and a sharp plane makes easy adjustments to the fit.
    The cheap "white wood" at Home Depot makes great patterns. Soft so the nail heads make a good imprint, and a sharp plane makes easy adjustments to the fit.[/QUOTE]

    The piece at the bottom looks like White Pine, or as I call it Naughty Pine. New England is full of white pine trees, most of them "Pasture Pine", that grew in abandoned cow pastures, logged over places, or groves that were flattened in the '38 hurricane. Full of big knots all the way up. Definately not the old growth stock that King George reserved for the Royal Navy's masts, and that the Royal Navy thought that teak was an inferior substitute for. Good clear NWP stock is so hard to find the virtually all custom paint grade interior trim stock in this area is poplar, which grows fast and straight and is as easy to work as white pine. Rumor has it that poplar rots if you spit on it and look at it crosseyed, so is not generally used in boats.

    The white pines on my property (old farmland) I consider junk, good neither for boards nor firewood. None of them could produce the boards in my living room floor (white pine cut in Southern NH in the 1870's).

    Allan
    And the Binnacle-bats wore water-proof hats
    As they danced in the sounding sea.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Actually, I don't think you have to look at poplar crosseyed....

    It's OK in the interior of a house if well primed & painted - but certainly not great wood. Makes good kindling if well dried.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Actually the spars on my Coquina are tulip poplar. If you check the numbers and compare Sitka and Poplar they are quite close in ME, modulus of rupture and work to load. I increased my mast diameters 1/16 inch.
    I used good clear stock. $2/BF versus $17. 2 years sailing her with no issues.
    Robb White used a lot of poplar in his boats and the Royal Navy used to poach huge poplars for masts. Hence the town named "Kings Tree" in SC.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    NIce piece of WO. If my experience is any guide, that White Oak will want to move around and check as it dries. It really helped me to follow JIm Ledger's example and seal it up with CPES. I also tried shellac. Jim said shellac didn't work as well for him but I had good results. I slobber the shellac it on pretty thick.

    I was kinda leery of doing this--particularly the CPES. But some of my lumber was starting some serious checking after being cut so I felt I had to do something
    I got some checking at the ends. Sealed them up with some old paint. Minor surface checking otherwise. I ordered a moisture meter. Should be here Wed.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Actually the spars on my Coquina are tulip poplar. If you check the numbers and compare Sitka and Poplar they are quite close in ME, modulus of rupture and work to load. I increased my mast diameters 1/16 inch.
    I used good clear stock. $2/BF versus $17. 2 years sailing her with no issues.
    Robb White used a lot of poplar in his boats and the Royal Navy used to poach huge poplars for masts. Hence the town named "Kings Tree" in SC.
    2 different woods.

    Tulip Poplar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liriodendron_tulipifera
    Northern Poplar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populus

    Tulip is a way better wood.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    The Kings-trees in South Carolina I think were mainly the longleaf pines. Truly a magnificent mast timber when the tree is old growth. Sadly pretty much all gone. The stuff harvested now just isn't the same. The longleafs are too slow-growing to be commercially viable. You can occasionally find a single specimen here or there that somehow escaped the axe. And we have some preserves here and there.

    The poplars on my farm are not very rot resistant. I've got oak logs that I put out for horse jumps 8 years ago that are still strong. The poplar logs I put out are almost all gone. In fact, a few months ago I "mulched" one with my bushhog that started out about 24" in diameter. They are really straight and can be limb free for long lengths. Maybe if they were well-protected they would make good spars. Of course, I'm not a lumber expert and there may be a better species of poplar elsewhere.
    Last edited by chuckt; 09-24-2013 at 08:06 AM.
    Chuck Thompson

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    No poplar is not a durable wood, but neither is Sitka. When I was looking for wood for the Coquina Spars EVERYONE kelp telling me I had to use Sitka.
    I pulled up the engineering numbers for different woods, brushed off some books from college (I was a Civil engineering major) and found that poplar was a very good substitute for Sitka here in the south. I consulted a friend of mine that is a materials engineer for Locheed. He did a lot of the work on the F-22. He ran the numbers for the spars using both species and suggested the 1/16" increase.
    I like using materials I can obtain locally, or at least regionally. Plus the $17/bf for the Sitka sight unseen was a non-starter.
    I took the mainmast on the Coquina (14' long) put a sawhorse 2' in from each end and sat in the middle. I'm @ 240 pounds. It deflected @ 3" and returned to straight.
    My Locheed buddy got a kick out of the project. He's got a machine shop next to his house where he builds race cars and is a very accomplished welder. He hates finish work so we trade out tasks. I do paint and powder coating for him and he machines and welds for me.
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  13. #48
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    So how have they held up? No doubt it is a tough springy wood. Impossible to split. I would think if you could keep the rot out it would be great for spars.
    Chuck Thompson

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Very well. I refreshed the varnish last winter. I'll do the same after this season. I've had her out in some good blows, reefed with my bulk on the weather rail, lee rail in the water. No issues.

    Just glued up the last frame! I'm gusseting the chine joint as after you cut out for the chine log I was worried about the amount of material remaining at the 1/2 lap joint. I love using my Northfield bandsaw anyway!

    Think I'll pick up some pattern wood today to make the patterns for the keel. I just might have enough left over for the stem and I'd like to cut that out. More bandsaw time.

    Hey Chuck I'll be over your way in October. We are gonna take a closer look at some property in the Mt. Pleasant area. If you are around we'd love to stop by and have a look at your progress.
    Last edited by Reynard38; 09-24-2013 at 12:00 PM.
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  15. #50
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Please do stop by. Mt. Pleasant is nice.
    Chuck Thompson

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    10 frames, keel and stem patterns.

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  17. #52
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Cutting the notches for the chine logs today. Also installing all the gussets at the chine 1/2 lap.
    I may use the patterns to cut the keel and stem if the rain quits later. I want to do that in the driveway instead of trying to haul a 205# timber into the basement shop.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    All the gussets are in, and chine log notches cut. Was gonna cut the keel and stem, but it was raining and the final AC race was on.
    The 1/2 laps at the chine joints look nice. Almost be a shame to paint them, but this boat will have a LOT less brightwork than the Coquina.
    I 'll have to remove the paint booth from my shop to have enough room to erect the strong back. I plan on clearing everything out to get as much room as possible. Also I will probably make a planking table for the spiling and scarfing to come.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    My 2" thick timber was just wide enough for my stem and keel patterns.



    Rough cut the stem parts out. Those I can finish up on the bandsaw.



    Which left me with a somewhat lighter piece of white oak for the keel.

    Last edited by Reynard38; 09-26-2013 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Auto defect
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  20. #55
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Spoke to the owner of the original "Betty" today. Harry Bryan was kind enough to call the owner, a former client of his and ask if I could see and photograph the boat.
    Ive got a long layover on Portland on the 27th of October. The Betty is just north of Freeport. Looking forward to good food, good beer and seeing the boat.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    What are we planking with? Maybe you haven't decided.
    Chuck Thompson

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Atlantic White Cedar.
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  23. #58
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I can smell that White Oak .Good stuff.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Even my wife commented how good the basement and garage smelled!
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  25. #60
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    Default

    Did you get the awc in Georgia?
    Chuck Thompson

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    It's possible, but a better supply is in coastal NC. I found a mill that cuts it specifically for boat planking near Nags Head NC. 7-10 inch wide live edged, 16' long.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Installing the cross spalls and legs onto the frames for mounting on the strong back.
    I made a jig onto the lofting so they would be consistent.





    4 out of 9 done. Transom is mounted differently.

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  28. #63
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I'm using 1/4 20 bolts and wing nuts to mount the frames to the spalls and legs. I figured this would make it easier to remove them after its all planked up, and I can put bungs into the holes.
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  29. #64
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I'm wondering if the Long Lines : sheer and chine in plan and profile ; have ever been lofted? I remember reading the WB article on Handy Billy . The pro builders built the molds directly from the offsets but had to fair up the erected framework , if I recall correctly.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Perkins View Post
    I'm wondering if the Long Lines : sheer and chine in plan and profile ; have ever been lofted? I remember reading the WB article on Handy Billy . The pro builders built the molds directly from the offsets but had to fair up the erected framework , if I recall correctly.
    I found 2 that were off, and not by a whole lot. One was a negative that should have been a +. The other needed a bit more curve to be fair.
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  31. #66
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    If you still going to stop by, I'll have some lofting questions for ya. I'm planning on starting a Bateka dinghy build on those winter days when the boat shed will be too cold.
    Chuck Thompson

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Chuck,

    Yes we are. Just working out which day. You going to be around Sunday?
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  33. #68
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    This Sunday yes. Will be gone next weekend (10/19).
    Chuck Thompson

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Been a little slow on progress. Took a trip down to Charleston to look at some property, and got to visit Chuck.
    Aside from sanding and riveting the frames are done.



    Also just about got the stem ready to assemble.

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  35. #70
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Since I have never taken a boatbuilding course, some obvious steps that the professionals know are left out of my process. It was informative for me to see how you used the lofting on the floor to get out molds and angled parts. I immediately started to use that in my present build, which is a Crab Skiff by rack of eye. Thanks for the pics.

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