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Thread: Harry Bryan Betty

  1. #1
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    Default Harry Bryan Betty

    I've decided to start another build. This'll be my third after the CLC Chester Yawl, and then the Coquina. The first was a kit, the 2nd from a very detailed set of plans from Doug Hylan. Both of these boats were either lap stitch or glued lap.
    Harry's plans of course illustrate traditional construction. At first I thought about doing it glued lap, but the more I think about it I'd like to my hand at traditional. It's a lapstrake boat.

    I am setting up my lofting floor now. Should have it ready in a day or 2. I spoke to Harry this morning. Very nice guy. We talked wood for planking that I have available to me here in GA. He spoke of Atlantic white cedar. Lots of it on the gulf coast. I've used a bit of it on the coquina, but it was smaller stuff. SSupposedly there is a yard near Pensacola that has some larger stock, one of my Copilots loves near there and is checking for me (he's a wooden boat fan).
    Not much to show yet, but here's a pic of one Harry built for a client:

    Last edited by Reynard38; 07-29-2013 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Spell check!
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I really enjoyed following your Coquina build- and thought the results were beautiful. Will this boat live on a trailer or in the water? I'm curious how your search for lumber goes. In my location it's tough to get much more than D. Fir. There's mahogany to be found, but not inexpensively.
    "A man builds the best of himself into a boat- builds many of the memories of his ancestors." -Steinbeck

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Thanks, it'll be kept in the water.
    White oak for the keel and frames isn't a problem. With all the storms we've had there is a lot of blow down. My sawyer harvested a tree rrecently that is over 5' in diameter and dead straight for 40'. He's cutting my keel this week. Got the inner keel last week, same tree.
    I am starting the search for the planking stock.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Looks a bit like a stretched Rambler, or perhaps, a Rambler is a truncated version of that one. Very elegant.

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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Very elegant, yes, that's well put.

    This design has always been a curiosity for me. The design brief must have included either "I loathe outboards" or "I dearly love small diesels". The notion of gently and elegantly passing time on the water seems somewhat at odds with the reality of having the Donk thumping away only a foot or two from your hip.

    It's a plain gorgeous boat, though, and I very much look forward to your build!
    A boatless inlander, searching for the meaning of life-aground.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I'm thinking of using one of the Beta diesels. A friend has one in his Friendship sloop. Very smooth and quiet.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Bit of tumblehome in the transom.

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Keel drawn in with rabbet and knee.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    1/2 of the 1/2 breadths.

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Allright! This will be fun.
    Chuck Thompson

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Looking at locally available wood : a friend of mine has been buying rough sawn White Pine from Swanee Lumber . This is on Buford Highway in Swanee Georgia ; just down the road a ways from your marina. The Pulsifer Hampton is strip planked with White Pine ,which is a pretty good recommendation for the material. John Gardner has called it "prime planking stock" . Lots of boats of all types were planked with it in the past and decked with it as well . Apparently it lasts pretty well . An epoxy primer would help there and harden the surface a bit.
    Last edited by Bill Perkins; 08-08-2013 at 09:32 AM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    First frame. Chine is 1/2 lapped per Harry's directions.



    Gotta get more white oak.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Picked up 8 4/4 X @10" 8' oak boards. Planed them down to 7/8 for the frames and floors.



    Got 3 of the 10 frames and floors cut. # 7 has a slight curve above the chine. I used the "nail on edge" method to mark the cut. Worked great. Finished up with a hand plane.

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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Good stuff.

    What's the plan for the log on the bench?
    A boatless inlander, searching for the meaning of life-aground.

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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Hard to tell from the pic, but it's a crook from a huge white ash tree that went down on my neighbors property. Old pre-civil war house back there on 13 acres.
    i asked and they said no problem when I told them I wanted a chunk of it for a boat.
    Planning on using it for a breasthook. I'm gonna take it to my sawyer and have him live edge cut it so I can cut it on my bandsaw.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    White pine -- rot resistant? That can't be same white pine at hardware warehouses, right? It's pretty and cheap. Good news.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    #1 station frame. As the kink at the chine was so slight I just sawed this one out. Those very oblique dados for the 1/2 lap are a pain to set up. Used a bit more wood, but this should work fine.
    Also cut the floor and the beveled slot for the stem. The lofting makes it easy to pick off the angles.
    Still need to trim the lower end of the frames. Might wait until everything is glued and riveted first.
    I am starting to see the value in lofting!

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    It actually didn't rain here today (at least at the lake) so......



    Didn't get much done on the Betty
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Rained today, back at it.
    The nail-on-edge method works really well.

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Very nice! The lofting board and hammer, this is how Jim Ledger started out, you know...





    In regards to Capefox's question, the pine that you see at the big box stores is probably sugar pine, pinus lambertania, generally from the West as opposed to the northern white pine from the local sawmills of the Northeast, pinus strobus, of which Gardner refers. I do not have the text in front of me, but I recall that he made the usual caveat about heartwood vs sapwood. If you have not chosen your planking stock, perhaps your local variety of SYP (likely pinus taeda) would be just as good as northern white pine.

    Betty is a handsome boat, nice to see this build.
    Last edited by SMARTINSEN; 08-22-2013 at 07:20 PM.
    Steve Martinsen

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I'm not lobbying for Eastern White Pine . No doubt it's not the "best"; but just as a matter of interest references show the range of the trees coming South along the Blue Ridge ,across the very top of Georgia ,and on into the extreme Northeast corner of Alabama . I've definitely seen some fine ones on the upper Chattooga River ,a micro climate that forms the border between Georgia and South Carolina (these trees are protected) . The lumber yard I mentioned can of course draw from further a field if it's cheaper . My boat building friend bought some very nice Ash from Pennsylvania there.
    Last edited by Bill Perkins; 08-26-2013 at 11:58 PM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Ewwwww. Ohhh. Pretty magic lines.

    I know little about lofting and so admire your efforts here. It's alchemy to me.
    Chuck Thompson

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Looking forward to seeing more progress pictures of this build, looking like you are off to a great start.
    My First Boat Build:
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...acgregor-Canoe
    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Ordered the copper rivets, roves and GFlex epoxy.
    Time to start assembling the frames.

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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    On the subject of planking I'm hoping to go with Atlantic White Cedar. I had a place near Nags Head reccomended by several people. Apparently he cuts AWC for boat planking.
    About a 7 hour drive over there, so a road trip is in the works.
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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Whew! That's a hike to buy lumber. But a good idea to put you own eye on it.
    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    You've graduated to the big leagues with this build! It'll be great to see it go together.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    On the subject of planking I'm hoping to go with Atlantic White Cedar. I had a place near Nags Head reccomended by several people. Apparently he cuts AWC for boat planking.
    About a 7 hour drive over there, so a road trip is in the works.
    In my younger days I was never disappointed when my road trips ended up at Nags Head. From where I grew up Va Beach was 1 hr and Nags Head was 2 so day trips were to Va Beach, weekends were to Nags Head. A good friend worked/lived there for the summers, always knew where there was a party. Oh to be 19 again...

    Cheers,

    Bobby

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    You've graduated to the big leagues with this build! It'll be great to see it go together.
    It feels like it! With Hylans plans for the Coquina you felt like he was there helping you at every step. With Harry's 3 sheets you ddefinetely have to figure things out yourself.
    I could not have built the Coquina without having done the CLC Chester Yawl first. No way I'd attempt this one without having built the Coquina. It's a progression.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Mark, Beautiful job so far. That will be one sweet boat for putting around the lakes there. If you have shore power where you will berth her and depending on how long, how far and how fast you want to go Betty could be a good candidate for electric power. It would be easy to drive at hull speed and you could get rid of that big engine box in the middle of the cockpit. Probably a little quieter too
    Denny Wolfe
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  31. #31
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    Whew! That's a hike to buy lumber. But a good idea to put you own eye on it.
    I trucked almost 2,000 bd. ft from WA to ME for my boat. A 7 hr. drive is next door!

    I too will enjoy watching this build.

    re: engine noise: leave plenty of room for completely sealing things with SoundDown. On my boat with a modern diesel (Yanmar) & good soundproofing, you can carry on a normal conversation while standing over it (it's below the cabin sole) when it's running @ 2200rpm.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    The idea of electric propulsion is compelling on the lake. I need to compare weights as I'd like to keep the boat as light as possible.
    We are seriously considering a move to the coast a few years down the road which would involve using the boat a lot more.
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  33. #33
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    The idea of electric propulsion is compelling on the lake. I need to compare weights as I'd like to keep the boat as light as possible.
    We are seriously considering a move to the coast a few years down the road which would involve using the boat a lot more.
    How much would the diesel, tank and fuel weigh?

    Could you live with say four hours duration at hull speed? Six hours?

    Could you accept 7 or 8 kts top speed?

    Electric motor weight is nothing - a 13 hp motor weighs 35#, you could carry one in each hand. The batteries on the other hand are a little heavier. On the plus side they are small and can be located wherever you need the weight for trim. 500# of lead acid (about $2000) or 200# of lithium batteries (very ball park $6000)would probably get you the 4 hours at 6 kts.

    A little Honda EU2000i (53#, $1000) quiet generator would probably push the boat 4 kts and use practically no gas. Strap it down to a swim platform when you need it and you wouldn't see it or hardly hear it.
    Denny Wolfe
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  34. #34
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    I think living the good life , putting along the SE coast (or lakes) with friends and family , requires a shading device of some kind .
    Last edited by Bill Perkins; 09-04-2013 at 10:33 PM.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    And it will have one!
    Just got done with my required recurrent simulator training. Back on the Betty tomorrow!
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  36. #36
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Got 4 frames together with G Flex. Need to make the cut for the keel batten, and then install the rivets.
    While the glue was curing I decided to make the patterns for the 3 stem pieces.

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  37. #37
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Well that didn't take long.



    Now to glue together frame #7
    The cheap "white wood" at Home Depot makes great patterns. Soft so the nail heads make a good imprint, and a sharp plane makes easy adjustments to the fit.
    Last edited by Reynard38; 09-10-2013 at 08:34 PM.
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  38. #38
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Got the white oak timber for the keel and stem lumber.
    20' by 12x2. Not a single knot.



    I plan on rough cutting the keel from this in the driveway using patterns.
    Last edited by Reynard38; 09-13-2013 at 06:41 PM.
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  39. #39
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    7 of the 10 frames are glued up. Decided to take a diversion and cut out for the keel batten.



    Did 3 this morning. The block in one of the cutouts is the exact height and width of the batten. Amazing how a bit a machining makes a part look a lot more "boat like"

    Well it's mid 70's today with 8 knots and low humidity.
    A better day for sailing is hard to come by. I'm off to the lake.
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  40. #40
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    NIce piece of WO. If my experience is any guide, that White Oak will want to move around and check as it dries. It really helped me to follow JIm Ledger's example and seal it up with CPES. I also tried shellac. Jim said shellac didn't work as well for him but I had good results. I slobber the shellac it on pretty thick.

    I was kinda leery of doing this--particularly the CPES. But some of my lumber was starting some serious checking after being cut so I felt I had to do something
    Chuck Thompson

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Well that didn't take long.



    Now to glue together frame #7
    The cheap "white wood" at Home Depot makes great patterns. Soft so the nail heads make a good imprint, and a sharp plane makes easy adjustments to the fit.
    The cheap "white wood" at Home Depot makes great patterns. Soft so the nail heads make a good imprint, and a sharp plane makes easy adjustments to the fit.[/QUOTE]

    The piece at the bottom looks like White Pine, or as I call it Naughty Pine. New England is full of white pine trees, most of them "Pasture Pine", that grew in abandoned cow pastures, logged over places, or groves that were flattened in the '38 hurricane. Full of big knots all the way up. Definately not the old growth stock that King George reserved for the Royal Navy's masts, and that the Royal Navy thought that teak was an inferior substitute for. Good clear NWP stock is so hard to find the virtually all custom paint grade interior trim stock in this area is poplar, which grows fast and straight and is as easy to work as white pine. Rumor has it that poplar rots if you spit on it and look at it crosseyed, so is not generally used in boats.

    The white pines on my property (old farmland) I consider junk, good neither for boards nor firewood. None of them could produce the boards in my living room floor (white pine cut in Southern NH in the 1870's).

    Allan
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  42. #42
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Actually, I don't think you have to look at poplar crosseyed....

    It's OK in the interior of a house if well primed & painted - but certainly not great wood. Makes good kindling if well dried.

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Actually the spars on my Coquina are tulip poplar. If you check the numbers and compare Sitka and Poplar they are quite close in ME, modulus of rupture and work to load. I increased my mast diameters 1/16 inch.
    I used good clear stock. $2/BF versus $17. 2 years sailing her with no issues.
    Robb White used a lot of poplar in his boats and the Royal Navy used to poach huge poplars for masts. Hence the town named "Kings Tree" in SC.
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  44. #44
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    NIce piece of WO. If my experience is any guide, that White Oak will want to move around and check as it dries. It really helped me to follow JIm Ledger's example and seal it up with CPES. I also tried shellac. Jim said shellac didn't work as well for him but I had good results. I slobber the shellac it on pretty thick.

    I was kinda leery of doing this--particularly the CPES. But some of my lumber was starting some serious checking after being cut so I felt I had to do something
    I got some checking at the ends. Sealed them up with some old paint. Minor surface checking otherwise. I ordered a moisture meter. Should be here Wed.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  45. #45
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Actually the spars on my Coquina are tulip poplar. If you check the numbers and compare Sitka and Poplar they are quite close in ME, modulus of rupture and work to load. I increased my mast diameters 1/16 inch.
    I used good clear stock. $2/BF versus $17. 2 years sailing her with no issues.
    Robb White used a lot of poplar in his boats and the Royal Navy used to poach huge poplars for masts. Hence the town named "Kings Tree" in SC.
    2 different woods.

    Tulip Poplar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liriodendron_tulipifera
    Northern Poplar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populus

    Tulip is a way better wood.

  46. #46
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    The Kings-trees in South Carolina I think were mainly the longleaf pines. Truly a magnificent mast timber when the tree is old growth. Sadly pretty much all gone. The stuff harvested now just isn't the same. The longleafs are too slow-growing to be commercially viable. You can occasionally find a single specimen here or there that somehow escaped the axe. And we have some preserves here and there.

    The poplars on my farm are not very rot resistant. I've got oak logs that I put out for horse jumps 8 years ago that are still strong. The poplar logs I put out are almost all gone. In fact, a few months ago I "mulched" one with my bushhog that started out about 24" in diameter. They are really straight and can be limb free for long lengths. Maybe if they were well-protected they would make good spars. Of course, I'm not a lumber expert and there may be a better species of poplar elsewhere.
    Last edited by chuckt; 09-24-2013 at 09:06 AM.
    Chuck Thompson

  47. #47
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    No poplar is not a durable wood, but neither is Sitka. When I was looking for wood for the Coquina Spars EVERYONE kelp telling me I had to use Sitka.
    I pulled up the engineering numbers for different woods, brushed off some books from college (I was a Civil engineering major) and found that poplar was a very good substitute for Sitka here in the south. I consulted a friend of mine that is a materials engineer for Locheed. He did a lot of the work on the F-22. He ran the numbers for the spars using both species and suggested the 1/16" increase.
    I like using materials I can obtain locally, or at least regionally. Plus the $17/bf for the Sitka sight unseen was a non-starter.
    I took the mainmast on the Coquina (14' long) put a sawhorse 2' in from each end and sat in the middle. I'm @ 240 pounds. It deflected @ 3" and returned to straight.
    My Locheed buddy got a kick out of the project. He's got a machine shop next to his house where he builds race cars and is a very accomplished welder. He hates finish work so we trade out tasks. I do paint and powder coating for him and he machines and welds for me.
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  48. #48
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    So how have they held up? No doubt it is a tough springy wood. Impossible to split. I would think if you could keep the rot out it would be great for spars.
    Chuck Thompson

  49. #49
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Very well. I refreshed the varnish last winter. I'll do the same after this season. I've had her out in some good blows, reefed with my bulk on the weather rail, lee rail in the water. No issues.

    Just glued up the last frame! I'm gusseting the chine joint as after you cut out for the chine log I was worried about the amount of material remaining at the 1/2 lap joint. I love using my Northfield bandsaw anyway!

    Think I'll pick up some pattern wood today to make the patterns for the keel. I just might have enough left over for the stem and I'd like to cut that out. More bandsaw time.

    Hey Chuck I'll be over your way in October. We are gonna take a closer look at some property in the Mt. Pleasant area. If you are around we'd love to stop by and have a look at your progress.
    Last edited by Reynard38; 09-24-2013 at 01:00 PM.
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  50. #50
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    Default Re: Harry Bryan Betty

    Please do stop by. Mt. Pleasant is nice.
    Chuck Thompson

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