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Thread: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Brian,
    thank you for posting these photos. Amazing resemblance to the shape of my canoe -- especially at the bow.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Ed has posted more pictures over on his Beale report thread

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...51#post4564051

    Brian

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Upon request I added offsets for Gorewood 15-8, a version made of two 244 x 122 cm, 4 mm marine grade okoume plywood sheets (left click at the drawing for PDF-download):


  4. #74
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Quote Originally Posted by flo-mo View Post
    Just noticed there is a German company which offers very nice canoes built exactly to the method that is the topic of this thread: Canadian Traditional Craft

    Actually I am almost certain their Guron design (in the background of the photo) is an only slightly modified copy of my Gorewood 14 except for the more traditional approach of the execution.



    I do not blame them for doing so, because by discussing the building method (which BTW is not my invention), providing the cut-pattern for free and elaborately documenting the build of my canoe it was my intention to motivate others to look into it, maybe improve and refine it, which they obviously did.

    I only wish there was a hint where the inspiration and the cut pattern for the plywood came from which would have been nice.
    I really despise when people don't give credit where it's due. It's not that hard to simply name and thank the person who's knowledge you are expropriating. When people make their work freely available to others it just means you don't have to pay them money for it. It doesn't mean you're excused from giving them credit and thanks.

    If it was me, I would be getting in touch with them to call them out on it.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Quote Originally Posted by cracked lid View Post
    I really despise when people don't give credit where it's due. It's not that hard to simply name and thank the person who's knowledge you are expropriating. When people make their work freely available to others it just means you don't have to pay them money for it. It doesn't mean you're excused from giving them credit and thanks.

    If it was me, I would be getting in touch with them to call them out on it.
    They apologized and gave me proportionate credit after all so we are good -- no bad feelings.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    After hearing from two ambitious builders who's attempts were sadly doomed to failure I am happy to present the to my knowledge first successfully built Gorewood 16 Canoe.


    Pál from Hungary build a beautiful canoe and kindly gave me detailed information about his build and the materials he used.

    Hull made of 4mm water and boil proof birch plywood

    Inside of the hull sheathed with 163 g fiberglass cloth, gores reinforced with one strip of 180 g carbon kevlar tape, stems with two layers of 180g carbon kevlar bias tape

    Outside of the hull sheathed with one layer of 180 g carbon kevlar hybrid fabric, covered by one layer of 163 g fiberglass cloth, stems covered by three layers of 180g and one layer of 220g carbon kevlar bias tape

    For his home water he needs a tough canoe that can take some abuse so the weight of his boat is more on the heavy side.

    Bare hull: 15.8 kg (35.1 lbs)
    Finished canoe: 29.2 kg (64.9 kg)

    The result of his effort is a stunning canoe and I am glad he likes the performance of the boat.


    From Pál's facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pal.mezes?h...wser&fref=pymk


    Photos of the build: https://plus.google.com/photos/10096...88925852619409


    Last edited by flo-mo; 11-26-2015 at 12:19 PM.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Pál's home water:


  8. #78
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    wow looks great. very nice design.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    What a lovely photo of Pál Mézes' Gorewood 16:


  10. #80
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    IMPORTANT MESSAGE:


    For all who fancy to build one of my Gorewood designs please be sure to take a close look at my thread in the Building/Repair section: Flirting with disaster - build of a revised Gorewood 16' Canoe - no happy end
    Last edited by flo-mo; 05-18-2016 at 11:41 AM.

  11. #81
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    Default Plywood Canoe Concept Birchbark Style

    dunno . . . where is here? Craft stores is a dead on recommendation -- I get mine at Hobby Lobby, but Michaels or JoAnnes fabrics should have something similar in their wood section. I wonder if pressboard off of the old style clipboards would work? Its pretty sturdy and thin . . . might be a touch heavy . . . If you cant find it there, before you order the plywood online, you might just want to order the laser cut ones from the FT store. Theyre not too pricey, and it supports the show. just a suggestion . . .

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Quote Originally Posted by flo-mo View Post
    Upon request I added offsets for Gorewood 15-8, a version made of two 244 x 122 cm, 4 mm marine grade okoume plywood sheets (left click at the drawing for PDF-download):




    Hi,

    I write from France, where I spend as much time as I can tripping on the local rivers.

    Most of my trips are up river, and other than poling, I tend to have a lot of portages over dams and all sort of obstacles. Poling requires more stability than normal paddling, but I still need a fast hull to paddle against the current. My current mistral 17.5 is good (stable and fast), but too heavy and cumbersome on the portages and windage is a real issue (I travel very light). Mostly I-II rivers, big ones, small forgotten ones…

    Can anyone help me find the hull specs for the 15-8. I'm trying to adapt the size and shape to my tripping style, but is difficult to modify on my CAD with out the target beam, center depth, or an idea about the displacement.

    I'm aiming for 14.5/15 for a 33" beam, "flatfish" stern, and some bow rocker. 3mm ply, fiberglass both sides, and keeping the rest as light and simple as possible.

    I've made a SOF, but it was impossible to pole. In France red cedar for strips is to expensive to end up scrapping the shallows. I was about to ahead with a S&G canoe (modified 15 prospector), when I found this very elegant technique that I find particularly suited to make a canoe. The resulting shapes are amazing! Thanks very much flo-mo, for the plans, and the detailed explanations: I can't wait to get started!

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Hi Ppaul,

    estimated specifications for the Gorewood 15-8 Canoe:

    Length: 478 cm (15’ 8")
    Beam: 86 cm (34”)
    Displacement: 135/225 kg (300/500 lbs)
    Draft: 9.5/13.5 cm (3 3/4” / 5")
    Approx. Bare Boat Weight: 25 kg (56 lbs)
    Midship Depth: 34.5 cm (13 5/8")

    Cheers
    Stefan

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Gorewood goes everywhere!

    Croatia:


    Slovenia:


    Bath:


    Phuket:


    The builder from Thailand also makes exquisite models:


    The last three photos are from these two facebook pages:
    https://www.facebook.com/pg/bristolc...70754096890108
    https://www.facebook.com/saychonsahe...=pb_friends_tl
    Last edited by flo-mo; 10-30-2018 at 07:23 AM.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Nice pics! Beautiful and creative canoes throughout this thread. Makes me dream of building one, until I remember that I already have a lightweight wooden canoe in the basement. Plus plenty of work to do on the big boat, the house, the car...
    Thanks for sharing!

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Hello builders...


    Question for those who have attempted or completed this build. My closest marine grade plywood supplier does not supply the 4mm okoume thickness. they have 3mm and then jump up to 6mm. Is there any reason this cannot be completed in the 3mm and then reinforced well with fabric? I realize that an early build ended in failure. Was that attributed to the thickness of plywood or the type/characteristics of the plywood?

    thanks

    happy to see the thread reborn

    J

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Hi Aerofan,

    The reason why my earlier build failed was most likely because the face veneers of my 4 mm okoume plywood were to thin (only about 1 mm) respectively the core veneer was to thick (2 mm). You want plywood with about even thickness of all three veneers. I did not have any problems with my second attempt when I used plywood which almost met this requirement.

    There is a builder from Slovenia who used 3 mm for his Gorewood 15-8 which worked out very well.

    FOT39E.jpg

    He strengthened the hull with an extra layer of heavier cloth. See posts #53 to #60 of this thread: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-attempt/page2
    Last edited by flo-mo; 10-18-2018 at 04:14 AM.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    I found an excellent Gorewood canoe on this Russian boat forum: https://forum.katera.ru/index.php?/t...kanoe/page-283

    Based on the Gorewood 14 a builder from Minsk, Belarus created a design to fit his own needs (LOA = 15', beam = 30", midship depth = 12"). The result is a stunning canoe with lovely crafted details.














    More photos at his insta: https://www.instagram.com/boats_oars_and_paddles/

    Last edited by flo-mo; 10-23-2018 at 12:54 PM.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Another beauty by the same builder:











    Last edited by flo-mo; 10-23-2018 at 04:37 PM.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Beautiful!

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Quote Originally Posted by aerofan View Post
    Hello builders...


    Question for those who have attempted or completed this build. My closest marine grade plywood supplier does not supply the 4mm okoume thickness. they have 3mm and then jump up to 6mm. Is there any reason this cannot be completed in the 3mm and then reinforced well with fabric? I realize that an early build ended in failure. Was that attributed to the thickness of plywood or the type/characteristics of the plywood?

    thanks

    happy to see the thread reborn

    J
    3mm okoume is fine. Stefan can't get it in Vienna, so he is stuck with 4mm poplar. After 20 years, my 3mm canoe is holding up well.

    The inspiration for these boats was the tortured plywood designs from Stillwater Canoes in Silver Springs MD (Sadly no longer around). Stillwater had designs for 11 and 16 foot tortured ply canoes, both of which used 3mm marine okoume plywood. I built a Stillwater Dusk with 3mm okoume from Boulter in Boston about 20 years ago. It has one layer of 6 oz glass on the outside. It also has a 'shear streak' that is a 3-4" wide doubler at the shear.

    I built a longer version of the dusk using the same forms a few years ago. I am afraid that the workmanship doesn't compare to Stefan's very well.
    Canoe.jpg
    Since it was longer, I didn't know where to locate the darts. I just wrapped the plywood around the forms and looked at where it wanted to buckle. You can see the gap between the batten (looks like a gunnel) and the plywood in the picture. I cut three darts where it looked like the plywood was under the most stress on each of the four panels.
    Attachment 25048
    There was some tendency to crack at the end of the darts. I drilled a 6mm hole at the point of the darts and added a backer on the inside. The backer was intended to smooth the curvature and reinforce the darts. I have no idea if it really helped, but they did make sanding the inside more difficult. The backers can be seen in the first picture.
    Attachment 25049
    Clamping backers.
    Picture4.jpg

    Clamping the shear doubler:
    Picture2.jpg
    The Stillwater boats are built in halves and joined to set the rocker.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by MN Dave; 10-24-2018 at 10:57 AM.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Dave,

    Thank you for adding the photos of your canoe. I was always interested to see a photo of one of the Stillwater Canoes. They look very nice indeed.

    The idea of the construction of the Stillwater Canoes was definitely an important influence for me to come up with my own take on this subject. So thank you again for exposing me to this idea.

    The most important influence for all of us who engage in this kind of design of course goes back to the birch bark canoe and the wonderful illustrations by Edwin Tappan Adney in this lovely book: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/50828...-h.htm#Page_30

    These drawings show almost all you need to know about the principle:

    i046a.jpg

    i046b.jpg

    i047a.jpg
    Last edited by flo-mo; 10-27-2018 at 08:54 AM.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Plywood Canoe Concept - Birchbark Style

    Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate you answering my concerns about the 3mm ply. Very good to know your builds are holding up well.

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