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Thread: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

  1. #1
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    Default First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Hey, gang. It's been a long time since I've last posted here. Life and career landed me in the desert of west Texas / eastern New Mexico for the past few years... and wooden boats was about the most ridiculous thing to contemplate in this environ. But now it looks like life will take me back to my home in Central Pennsylvania, and once again a wooden boat build has entered my mind.

    I'm interested in thoughts and recommendations on historic workboat designs (or modern designs with workboat lineage) that would prove an enjoyable and challenging traditional build. I'm really drawn to workboats, as I've spent 8 seasons as a commercial fisherman in Bristol Bay - both setnetting and drift. I really don't have any interest right now in plywood or epoxy, and the experience of building of the boat is as important as the eventual use. I'm looking at 2-5 years build time commitment, and want to work with lumber. My woodworking skills range from log/timber construction of our camp in northern PA, through framing and trim carpentry, down to the precise work needed to construct a bamboo fly rod.

    The boat will live on a trailer eventually (it can be a big trailer), and I understand the thoughts and misgivings behind trad construction/trailer life. I believe a traditionally built boat can be dry sailed, especially if in-water time is short compared to time on the hard. But if it proves unworkable, I'll make sure the boat finds a new home where it can live in the water, took up and tight, and build #2 in a modern trailer-friendly method. As I said, the build method is as important as the boat's eventual use.

    Assuming a design/build that proves to be able to be dry sailed, it will be trailered from Central PA to the Chesapeake, LBI, New York lakes, and possibly CT and NH coasts for daysails or short camp/cruises. Daysailing, I'd like to have 4 adults aboard and comfortable. Overnights would be for one or two either camping ashore or sleeping aboard. A completely open boat would be fine, but the option for a small cuddy open to the cockpit might be nice, especially in combination with a boom tent. (It's hard not to see photos of Sjogin's cozy cabin with a small woodstove and not start daydreaming...)

    Primarily sail with oar auxiliary, though I'm still trying to work through my thoughts on an outboard, either on the transom or in a well. (An outboard would give the option of putting around the Susquehanna local to us.) Sail rig should be able to be singlehanded, though 'challenging' singlehanding is ok to a point. Solitary sails will most likely be the exception rather than the rule, since any time afloat will be an event, due to the need to travel. And because the boat won't most likely be sailed regularly, a little bit of time setting up the rig is ok.

    Building space won't be an issue as a dedicated shed will go up on our property. I've been looking at plans in the 16' to 22' range, and to be honest, I've been looking with a romantic eye rather than a practical one. Chapelle's work with traditional craft has influenced me greatly, and I'd love to build an American historic type, though I do find certain European designs alluring. My current list of designs (which seems to change every few weeks) looks like this:

    Historic Designs
    Noman's Land Boat
    Hampton Boat
    Mackinaw Boat
    Extreme Crotch Island Pinky

    The Block Island Cowhorn, Tancook Whaler, and St. Ives Jumbo (Cornwall fishing lugger) have been on the list at one time or another, but taken off as 'impractical', mostly due to size and trailerability.

    Modern designs that I find handsome and have a workboat look or direct heritage to them are tough to find for traditional construction, though some may be able to be converted. Here's what's currently on this list:

    Modern Designs

    Newfoundland Trap Skiff (Duck Trap)
    Ebihen 16 or 18 (Vivier)
    Quoddy Boat (Roger Long)
    Certain Gartside designs
    Tern (Tad Roberts)

    These are the lines that keep circling around as I daydream. I'd really welcome thoughts and comments or reality checks with regards to any of these designs (or any I should consider that aren't listed!) and the practicality / construction methods / complexity of build. I'm up to the challenge and time commitment. Just would enjoy a conversation from the learned forum members.

    Some photos I lifted from the interwebs for some inspiration:















    Thanks in advance!

    Ryan
    Last edited by RyanGillnet; 07-16-2013 at 11:51 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Lots of lovely boats there to choose from. Glad to see St Ives Jumbo made your list. Im always partial to a double ended boat. I did enquire with Roger about his quoddy boat some years back. Certainly a tough choice to make and cant help you there. Clinker would be a better construction method than carvel. If you absolutely saturate the timber with hot oil and wood preserver mix until the wood just cant take anymore, she could survive trailering. How does traditional strip plank grab you? I would go strip over carvel for less movement.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    You looked at WB editor Tom Jackson's boat yet? Might be well worth a gander, given your preferences.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    The newer seven-plank Caledonia Yawl might be suitable for solid timber - Mr. Oughtred could advise you as to that.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Clinker would be a better construction method than carvel. If you absolutely saturate the timber with hot oil and wood preserver mix until the wood just cant take anymore, she could survive trailering. How does traditional strip plank grab you? I would go strip over carvel for less movement.
    I do think I tend towards clinker over caulked carvel due to movement, and an oil saturation to limit swell/dry cycle is something I'm researching for sure. When you say "traditional" strip, are you referring to an epoxy-less method? Really appreciate the reply!

    R
    Last edited by RyanGillnet; 07-16-2013 at 10:30 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    You looked at WB editor Tom Jackson's boat yet? Might be well worth a gander, given your preferences.
    Tom Jackson's boat is very handsome. Another Noman's Land Boat, Myles Thurlow's Mabel, is one of the boats that sowed the seed for building a traditional workboat cruiser. I need to dig through my WB stash and revisit Tom's build and rigging of Far and Away.

    R

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanGillnet View Post
    I do think I tend towards clinker over caulked carvel due to movement, and an oil saturation to limit swell/dry cycle is something I'm researching for sure. When you say "traditional" strip, are you referring to an epoxy-less method? Really appreciate the reply!

    R
    Traditional strip without the pox is what i was thinking off. Seems a few people have faith in either polysulphide or polyurethane as a bedding between the strips,or just plain tar or thick paint. Its another method that hot oil would work on too. Nailing is a must though in trad strip. If a smooth hull is what you want,strip is worth considering imo. Some traditional carvel builders may sneer at strip plank, the only advantage i would give to carvel is the ability to remove a plank without disturbing the others, but its a system that needs heavy framing and caulking to keep it all together, suited to some boats,not others. Besides, you are building a new boat, not repairing one.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    You have found some nice boat pictures and just looking by at them I feel inspiration streaming towards me.

    Personally I am a fan of clinker built double ended boats.
    -Double ended because such a hull usually tracks well and rows easily for it's size as there is no transom creating turbulence. Also because I believe that a double ender without too much dispacement aft allows the bow to ride over waves while a deep transom would force the bow straight through a wave. However I am not competent enough to declare this oppinion on seaworthiness as the absolute truth.
    -Round bottomed becauce it rolls less and is more stable in rough water than a flat bottomed hull.
    -Clinker build because that makes a light and flexible but very strong hull than can easily be repaired and shifted out piece by piece in the future. Scandinavian clinker built boats have usually been hauled ashore when not in use so I would think that this type of construction is fairly trailer safe.

    There are a lot of different clinker built double enders around northern Europe and the US and Canadian east coast. I would pick a traditional workboat from a region where the sea and landing conditions are fairly similar to what your boat will encounter.

    However I am neither a boat designer nor a boat bulder just a young man who has spent many weekends on the water in an old 22 foot motor peapod along the western coast of Finland......so we will see what the more experienced forum members say.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Traditional strip without the pox is what i was thinking off.
    Worth looking into, for sure. A quick search revealed a few interesting bits about this method. But I keep coming back to lapstrake designs for one reason or another. I appreciate having this as an option though.

    R

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Quote Originally Posted by heimlaga View Post
    You have found some nice boat pictures and just looking by at them I feel inspiration streaming towards me.
    Well, we all love nice, romantic images, don't we? I'll see what else I can scrounge up...













    Like you, I really like the looks of the clinker double-enders. And I think you're spot on from a practical design standpoint. Thanks for your thoughts.

    R

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    In the last few days, I can't seem to stop looking at the lines of Roger Long's 17' Pinky Sloop, or 'Quoddy Boat'. The design really seems to tick all the boxes, including a small cuddy. With a boom tent, this would make for a great overnighter while having that wide open cockpit for daysailing with a crowd. Mr. Long has mentioned that this boat actually goes to windward fairly well, considering the lack of centerboard and 2' draft.

    http://www.cruisingonstrider.us/17Pinky.htm

    While an open boat would be perfectly adequate for what I have in mind (I 'lived' on an open 30' setnet skiff 24 hrs a day for 4 weeks in pretty atrocious weather once upon a time...), it's hard to look at the cabin in Russ Manheimer's Sjogin and not feel cozy. Hanging on the pick in a cove on a chill night, boom tent up, fire in the stove to beat back some of the damp, a nip of elixir, and a good book.



    Does anyone have thoughts about Mr. Long's Quoddy Boat compared to, say, the Noman's Land Boat, Hampton Boat, Mackinaw Boat, or Crotch Island Pinky as far as sailing characteristics and my intended purpose? Thanks for the feedback I've been getting.

    Ryan

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    An open boat offers an entirely different character and milieu than a boat with even a small cabin. I like open boats better, generally.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    I cant reallycomment on the design specifics of the boats you have chosen. I myself like a cabin, even if small. Even a little cuddy can keep the worst of the weather off your kit. Im done with living out of dry-bags and bivi sacks...... unless the mood really takes me.
    Trad clinker sounds like your way forward,at least you are being realistic about time frame. This is not the sort of build to rush,and it would pay to get the best timber you can afford, it really is a world away from ply and bog, though that does have its place also.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    An open boat offers an entirely different character and milieu than a boat with even a small cabin.
    Hey, James. Can't argue there. I'd say quite a bit of the character of a voyage changes by having just a cuddy, let alone a full blown cabin - even if it isn't used. Just having the most minimal shelter available puts one in a different mindset. In AK, the move from a setnet skiff up to even the smallest of drifters (such as a Togiak Skiff - basically a plywood outboard skiff with a small house on back and no gear to speak of other than a bow roller) makes for a very different experience on the bay. I was sorta spoiled once I bought my Roberts 32, though that certainly wasn't plush compared to some of the Makos or tophouse Wegleys.

    I believe you own an Oughtred double ender... I'm still looking at the CY for traditional planking. Ditto the Tad Roberts ketch 'Tern'. I also think Vivier's Ebihen 16 or something from Paul Gartside would fit the bill, though deep down I think I really want to build something patterned after a historic Northeast US type. Any other suggestions that you may have some experience with in the PNW?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I cant reallycomment on the design specifics of the boats you have chosen. I myself like a cabin, even if small. Even a little cuddy can keep the worst of the weather off your kit. Im done with living out of dry-bags and bivi sacks...... unless the mood really takes me.
    Trad clinker sounds like your way forward,at least you are being realistic about time frame. This is not the sort of build to rush,and it would pay to get the best timber you can afford, it really is a world away from ply and bog, though that does have its place also.
    A tiny cuddy would have been a huge advantage, though unpractical, when fishing from the skiff. Dry bags were pointless because there wasn't really a chance to change clothes. Ever. I rained 2 weeks straight one season. And the fish slime and gore ended up everywhere. Yup. A small cuddy would have been nice. Still undecided on whether a fully open boat or a cuddy will be the way I go.

    BTW - that setnet skiff was heavily built of plywood.

    No rush to complete (or even get started) as I'll enjoy every moment of the build. Timber will be the best I can get. As I plan on a long build, I can spread out the material cost as I go. And since I'm building at my own pace, I can hold out until the finances allow the purchase of quality, rather than making due with poor material due to financial concerns.

    I may need to get in touch with Roger Long and chat about this. Or maybe he'll stumble upon this thread and comment...


    Thanks for the comments, both of you.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    The Quoddy boat is certainly a sweetheart but she is a ballasted open boat. While probably as safe as such a boat could be in that size, she still will disappear if swamped. The sails very nicely but is not exceptional. She is also a very, very complex to build.

    I think my truly exceptional design is the "Yawldory", second on this page:

    http://www.cruisingonstrider.us/Boats.htm

    She sails like a witch. We had seven people in her on sea trials and didn't feel cramped at all. She was designed for boom tent camping. Construction and planking are very simple for a traditional clinker boat since she is semi wherry style with no need to get the aft ends of the planks into rabbets.

    She is currently at the Landing School where I believe they are sailing her a bit. You could inquire there for some reviews.

    Unfortunately, I only drew enough of the plans to point Paul Rollins in the right direction. I'm not in a position now to finish the plans but it could be a good project for a Landing student. With some pictures and inspection of the original boat, which will be at the Small Reach Ragatta, you should be able to build one.



    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...6284215&type=3

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...6284215&type=3

    BTW, I am in touch on the Internet about 99% of the time.
    Roger Long

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Thanks for responding Roger. The Yawldory and similar designs in the dory and wherry tradition have been on my short list from time to time. For whatever reason, they seem to slip off. But I may need to take a better look. I feel pretty confident that with the construction photos from Paul Rollins build, an in-person looksee, and a basic set of plans that I could accomplish the build.

    I really appreciate your comments with regards to the Quoddy. The complexity of the build was apparent from the 3 sheets of plans on your website, but didn't put me off as I enjoy a challenge and learning by doing. Most of the methods and construction details make perfect sense to me (I'm an engineer) and I'm willing to put in the time to perfect the techniques needed. Now, being a ballasted and open boat had been playing on my mind for some time, and that's something I'll still need to consider, along with the pros and cons of all the designs I'm looking at. If I decide that the Quoddy is the boat I really want to build, are the offsets available?

    Again, thanks for taking the time to respond. Still researching the Noman's Land Boat, Hampton Boat, Mackinaw Boat, and Crotch Island Pinky, among others, for build techniques and sailing characteristics. Appreciate everyone who's taken the time to post.

    R

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Well, if you build one of my designs, I hope it is the Yawldory. The Quoddy Boat is hard to build, very difficult to trailer, and not particularly comfortable to sail in compared to the Yawldory with its bench seats. You could add those to the Quoddy Boat at the compromise of her camp cruiser aspect.

    The yawldory is quite easy to build for a large clinker hull and designed from the get go to be as easy to trailer as possible. Very comfortable boat to sit in. The easy flow lines of the transom stern account for her sailing qualities. Note that similarly rigged fishing vessels transitioned from double enders to the Hampton type, probably for similar reasons as fishermen had to go farther for their catch.

    You can also take the Yawldory up on a beach and let the tide go out or pull her up with an anchor and a tackle. The Quoddy Boat almost needs a dinghy. The Yawldory can be its own dinghy.

    Be careful about picking a boat for its looks. They all look mostly the same when you are inside looking out. It's how they work and do what you want to do that is important. The Quoddy Boat may be more evocative but the Yawldory is a much better boat for messing about.

    Where are you located? The owner of the Yawldory is old enough that she is always glad to have a crew. I think if you sail her, you'll be convinced.
    Roger Long

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Just a reminder, if you want sail & oar, the boat must be capable of being rowed by the average crew.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Roger, my concern about the Yawldory has always been that with a rig with six spars that have to be individually set up and adjusted, three halliards, four snotters, a couple of tack downhauls, and four sheets to tend including the doubled pair for the jib, you always need crew. I've no doubt the owner of the first YD is glad to have a crew. That is not even remotely a shorthander's boat as she's set up. Nor is she handy to strike for rowing. I think that lovely hull deserves some other rig options to make her more of an actual sail & oar cruiser for those who want to do more than afternoon daysailing with a whole bunch of crew.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Thorne - I'm not really necessarily looking for a true sail & oar design, though I certainly wouldn't count one out. I'm really interested in a daysailer or overnight sailboat with workboat heritage or design cues. I'm not overly interested in rowing great distances, more looking at oars as a way to maneuver in close or as needed power if unexpectedly becalmed.

    James - while I'll most likely always have crew, the ability to singlehand the boat is a safety function in my eyes, just in case crew becomes disabled. The ability to go for a solo sail would be an added benefit to a rig easily managed by one.

    Roger - points noted. Samantha and I hope to be home in PA within the next few months. My family are all Pennsylvania bound, but Sam's family is in Newtown, CT (yeah) and North Hampton, NH. We travel to visit them quite often. I'd love the opportunity to crew on a Yawldory. I'm not counting out the Quoddy though.

    Or the Hampton, Noman's Land, Eastport or Crotch Island Pinkys, an Ebihen, Tern, Newfoundland Trap Skiff...

    This is fun, eh?

    Thanks for the continued advice.

    R

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    I think that lovely hull deserves some other rig options to make her more of an actual sail & oar cruiser for those who want to do more than afternoon daysailing with a whole bunch of crew.
    Absolutely! It is the hull that makes her what she is. Even with crew, I've sometimes wished we'd gone with standing lugs. It would be easy to build a standing lug rig using the same masts. I wish there was money to try it.

    Any low, two masted rig would work wonderfully on this hull.

    It was quite a revelation to have a gust hit her and, instead of heeling over, thinking about it, and then speeding up like almost every other boat I've ever sailed, she just went faster.
    Roger Long

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    I like all the boats that have been suggested. I would be thinking very carefully about the intended use. Dry sailing off a trailer?? A little cruising or a lot of cruising,,,mainly day-sailing ???? single-handing or with crew??? how big a towing package??
    For a dry sailing boat I'd probably not choose traditional timber clinker, not disastrous certainly but not ideal when there are alternatives. .....I think I'd use traditional strip ( I prefer using real wood over ply). In this day and age...because we can...I'd want enough flotation to assist with an emergency so the boat and crew can self rescue.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Yawldory is a pretty boat. Add an unstayed easy-to-strike cruising rig and she'd be a real contender for a two man trip north to Alaska. She's 22' LOA ... what's her beam and overall hull weight? I looked at the website but don't see those details.

    Your 18 footer is interesting, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    An 18ft Ebihen in either strip or clinker would be a great boat. Even if outboards are not your thing, it has one of the best set ups for an outboard,and with the misainer rig she looks peachy too, definately a favorite. Lots of built in bouyancy too, trad looks, modern design advantages,its a good package.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Long View Post

    Where are you located? The owner of the Yawldory is old enough that she is always glad to have a crew. I think if you sail her, you'll be convinced.
    That really looks like a beautiful design. When you say 'sails like a witch', I'm curious what that translates to in practical terms? 10 knots in 15-20 knot winds? or any info along that line? Being rather light, I imagine there is not much wetted area, and even less when you are moving.

    Glad to see it being sold as an 18' production boat, even if it is plastic from china What is the retail price on it?

    thanks,

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Gilberj - the boat will mostly be on a trailer and when sailed will be in the water for a week at most. Mostly daysailed, but there is the potential for the occasional weeklong camp-cruise. Minimalist is ok here, but a small cuddy would be nice. I have a big Suburban and towed a 22' 1975 Airstream Argosy 6000 miles this past October, so heavy towing is just fine. I think timber lap strake is up to those conditions, but I haven't ruled out traditional strip. Or carvel for that matter. I have a strong preference for real wood, mechanical fasteners, and frames, as opposed to plywood, glue, and ply bulkheads. I just can't find much on strip construction that doesn't use epoxy. Any leads would be appreciated.

    Skaraborgcraft - I think the Ebihen 16 and 18 are fantastic designs. I'm ok with an outboard setup like Vivier has on these boats. It isn't my preference to ever use it, but the option is nice. It would allow me to putt around on the local river sans sailing rig. I think the 18 would need some redrawing to build traditionally. These boats have a lot going for them, and they were tops on my list for quite some time. Lately though, I've really had an interest in building a North American type. I still may shoot off a note to Mr. Vivier. Does anyone know of a 16 or 18 having been built traditionally? I'd also like to know a bit more about their sailing characteristics.

    Can anyone from the PNW comment on the Crotch Island Pinky Grace B or the Tad Robers ketch Tern? Anyone have thoughts on the sailing characteristics of Duck Trap's Newfoundland Trap Skiff?

    R
    Last edited by RyanGillnet; 07-20-2013 at 11:26 AM.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    I believe the first Ebihen 16 was built in strip. A UK builder was building the 18 in strip. She is quite burdsome, i dont believe anything would have to be changed on the lines. I believe sheathed cedar has been done and a hull in Iroko with no sheathing, but i think laminated ring frames were used. You still get to keep the good looks with a water-ballast system for easier trailing, though i dont think your "burb" would notice it there anyway. Ebihens practicality really stood out for me. I will post the trad build link if i come across it.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    I'd appreciate any link to a trad built Ebihen. Looking at Vivier's drawing for the 15/16, he state "A traditional version (carvel planked over stem bentframes) of Ebihen 16 is also available." Very encouraging. Even the strip/epoxy built examples show ribs and look extremely traditional.


    The 18 really looks like a boat intend for modern 'assembly'. CNC plywood kits, lots of epoxy, lots of plywood boxes and bulkheads instead of traditional frames... it's a great design, but different in so many ways from the 15/16. While the size and arrangement seem just right for what I'm looking for, I think there would be quite a bit of work to convert to traditional clinker or carvel construction.


    R
    Last edited by RyanGillnet; 07-22-2013 at 10:33 AM.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    This is my favourite Ebihen rig,



    Apparently Vivier can supply plans for trad carvel......so.....no excuses!

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    http://www.tavywoodenboats.co.uk/ebihen_15/

    It was a strip build. Photos of construction process.

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    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    I'm partial to the lug yawl as well. The Ebihen has an awful lot going for it. I still have a bias towards an eastern U.S. historic type (not a bias against European designs mind you!), so I'm still researching. But boy, it really is an attractive and practical boat, eh?


    R

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    Bristol Bay, Alaska; Central Pennsylvania
    Posts
    85

    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    http://www.tavywoodenboats.co.uk/ebihen_15/

    It was a strip build. Photos of construction process.
    Excellent link! Thank you!

    R

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bristol Bay, Alaska; Central Pennsylvania
    Posts
    85

    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    As I'm researching various designs and going through notes that I started 5 years ago, I'm impressed by the qualities of the yawl rig. The PNW sail-and-oars guys make strong arguments for it with regards to its use in open expedition boats. Paging through Chapelle tonight, I'm struck my the the almost complete absence of the yawl rig on workboats. ASSC makes almost no mention of it. As a commercial fisherman, I view a clean, open deck as necessary for safely and efficiently working gear, especially nets. A yawl would provide this in a way that a ketch just cannot by placing the mizzen on the stern. Combined with its advantages in sailing and maneuvering, I'm curious why the yawl wasn't adopted for two-masted workboats. Any thoughts, gang?

    R

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,919

    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    The yawl was most certainly adapted for the two masted workboats of Scotland. That's where the lug yawl comes from.

    Different boats for different fisheries, perhaps? One real issue when adopting a workboat type for recreational purposes is to make sure you're not needlessly retaining features that were purpose driven for a specific working task, yet are cumbersome, awkward or unhandy outside of their specific, yet now obsolete function. i.e. a traditional Banks Dory that is jerky and unstable and has too much windage without those few hundred pounds of codfish aboard.

    The modern lug yawl rig has benefitted markedly from modern technology such as computer-lofted Dacron sails and low-stretch halliards, making the new incarnation one of the best performing of the simple, unstayed rigs.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    25,333

    Default Re: First Build - Traditional Clinker or Carvel

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Long View Post
    Absolutely! It is the hull that makes her what she is. Even with crew, I've sometimes wished we'd gone with standing lugs. It would be easy to build a standing lug rig using the same masts. I wish there was money to try it.

    Any low, two masted rig would work wonderfully on this hull.

    It was quite a revelation to have a gust hit her and, instead of heeling over, thinking about it, and then speeding up like almost every other boat I've ever sailed, she just went faster.
    I'd love to see a yawldory with balanced lugs.

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