Building Lillistone's First Mate

[Ross Lillistone]

Lovely boat. Does that lashing around mast really work well as a partner? Even though he is using Amsteel/Dyneema/etc., which is low-stretch, I still wonder if one could cinch it tightly enough to do the job for an extended period on larger masts. I loved the solid gate arrangement, this lashing method has me intrigued.

Yes, it does work fine, and the load on the lashing is not high. The mast partner does its job as normal - the lashing simply holds the mast forward into the partner, and only has to overcome the aft pull from the mainsheet, as well as any inertia from pitching. The lashing around the mast does not need to be tight, and I did not use Spectra/Dyneema etc - it is simply a piece of 6mm Dacron double-braid.

There is nothing to stop you using a mast gate - this is just another option.

Ross Lillistone

[cracked lid]

My downhaul arrangement -


A single block with a becket and a fiddle block give me a 4-1 purchase. The line is led down through a hole in the mast partner to a turning block on the bulkhead (which has a backing backing plate of 1/2" ply).

The line is then led aft along the centerboard case to a cam cleat located below the center thwart.

Easy to reach and adjust and stays out of the way.

For the halyard I'm currently using the method Michael Storer suggest fo rthe goat island skiff. I originally had a blog, but the block as a little long, so I made a sheave using some wood and grommet.

This is the system when reefed. It works, but I think a halyard hook will be better. I'm also planning on making a mast cleat for the halyard line rather than cleating it to the belaying pin in the mast partner. This should make rigging a bit simpler and faster.

[cracked lid]

Sailed with my dad is 3'-4' steep breaking waves and 5-20kt gusty winds. There were only a few boats out in the rough conditions, and the 2 keel boats we saw weren't even trying to sail. The boat handled great. It did pound some heading directly into the chop. The bend of the river was such that where we were sailing one tack was about parallel to the waves and the other was perpendicular. Sailing upriver meant rolling or pounding, depending on the tack. Sailing downwind we got to do a little surfing. My dad's commented that he was surprised by how unnoticeable the wave action was. The stern would rise, we'd surf a little and then flatten out. No drama at all. He also commented on how light the helm was. I don't like the halyard set-up as the yard can twist enough to make raising the sail the last 6 inches about impossible. I've made up a halyard hook and just need to get it welded, painted and leathered. This may well be my last sail of the season, depending on weather for the next few weeks. I was able to get enough time in to figure out some things to do this winter to make it better. Near the top of the list are some oarlock risers as the low free board makes another inch or 2 a necessity in the kind of chop I've been going out in.

[cracked lid]

For Christmas, my wife made a bag for me to carry the rudder and tiller into so that they are easy to transport as I remove them for trailering and storage.

[capefox]

You're married to a keeper!

[PeterSibley]

Now there's a good idea !

[cracked lid]

The boat definitely planes. With the centerboard up running downwind in smallish whitecaps I was riding over the tops of waves in about 10-11 knots of wind. With the roughness of the water and not having slid the boom forward I had to use the rudder to keep the boat running straight, as the center of effort was off to the side. I dropped the board, which also dropped the boat off the plane for the most part. During periods of stronger wind, I'm estimating about 13-15 knots, it would still plane. The difference in speed when it jumped on a plane was very noticeable, from running just slightly slower than the swell and surfing some down the faces, to easily outpacing the swell and the ride smoothing considerably. I didn't have a way to measure speed, but considering I did a 5 mile run in 45 minutes, my guess is a jump in speed from 4-5 knots to 7-8 while planing. Next time I'll move the boom forward and see if I can keep it running straight downwind with weight positioning.

[capefox]

How's the paint job holding up? Still looks good in the pics.

[cracked lid]

It's been rubbed off on a couple edges where things have rubbed, but I can touch it up super easy when the season is over.

[Smashing Transom]

Hi,
Not sure if this thread is still active or if Cracked Lid is still around but I am considering attempting a First Mate and was wondering if someone could provide an estimate of hours required.
Thanks

[chris_sv]

Well I am just installing the final hardware on a First Mate which has taken me 2 years but there is a lot of idle time. It has been a greatly enjoyable project though. It really is hard to say how long it would take you in straight hours. I never kept a log other than coats of paint and major costs etc. Everyone works differently and to different standards. There is plenty of room for short cuts and just as many for over doing things. I made cleats and blocks and did a bird’s mouth mast but you can buy some of those. I also started with all the loose components like the spars, rudder, center board and case, mast partner etc to get the feel before filling the garage up with a hull.

Ross's notes, advice and plans are all you need. His web site along with this one also has some great inspiration and ideas from his other boats. It is not a difficult build if you’re half handy.

My advice would be ultimately not to worry about it, just enjoy the journey.

Chris

[Smashing Transom]

Well I am just installing the final hardware on a First Mate which has taken me 2 years but there is a lot of idle time. It has been a greatly enjoyable project though. It really is hard to say how long it would take you in straight hours. I never kept a log other than coats of paint and major costs etc. Everyone works differently and to different standards. There is plenty of room for short cuts and just as many for over doing things. I made cleats and blocks and did a bird’s mouth mast but you can buy some of those. I also started with all the loose components like the spars, rudder, center board and case, mast partner etc to get the feel before filling the garage up with a hull.

Ross's notes, advice and plans are all you need. His web site along with this one also has some great inspiration and ideas from his other boats. It is not a difficult build if you’re half handy.

My advice would be ultimately not to worry about it, just enjoy the journey.

Chris

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the info. I have really wanted to build a boat for quite a while but have two small kids and I'm self employed so I'm concerned about the time requirements. Don't want to just create another dust holder!
Appreciate your comments and wisdom. Have you posted any pic of your work?
Regards,
Gene

[cracked lid]

Hi,
Not sure if this thread is still active or if Cracked Lid is still around but I am considering attempting a First Mate and was wondering if someone could provide an estimate of hours required.
Thanks

I did keep a log of my time. Just over 500 hours over 15 months. It was my first build, I did not try and work fast, and I did it mostly with hand tools. I worked slowly and deliberately with slow hardener when I Did epoxy work, spending probably twice as long as someone who was experienced with it. The additional time spent making spars, cleats, and the sail, was a decent amount. I also made stuff that I wanted, that wasn't in the plans, such as the tiller extension, the coaming (which took a lot of time because of the complex angles, curves, and trying to get it to look right to my eye), belaying pins, the rubrails on both the hull and the cockpit, the attractive handle on the centerboard rod, you get the idea. An experienced builder with a good selection of power tools who is focused on function only could probably do it in 1/2 the time.

[chris_sv]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the info. I have really wanted to build a boat for quite a while but have two small kids and I'm self employed so I'm concerned about the time requirements. Don't want to just create another dust holder!
Appreciate your comments and wisdom. Have you posted any pic of your work?
Regards,
Gene

Hey Gene,

I thought about posting a blog but never go to it unfortunately even though I'm in IT. Computers are a nail bag to me. I also have 4 boys and thought one at least would get involved but too much surfing and skating to be had. Hopefully they'll sail. I do recommend doing it though if you have always wanted to. Great straight forward boat to build and sure beats TV. I followed Cracked Lid's posts every day with great interest as I was not too far behind him and it sure helped. Big thank you to you Cracked Lid for that and a great build as well. You guys unfortunately have a real winter to contend with and it's on its way so you better get cracking. Ours is all but done. I think the garage got down to 15 deg C one night! Real nasty.

[Smashing Transom]

I did keep a log of my time. Just over 500 hours over 15 months. It was my first build, I did not try and work fast, and I did it mostly with hand tools. I worked slowly and deliberately with slow hardener when I Did epoxy work, spending probably twice as long as someone who was experienced with it. The additional time spent making spars, cleats, and the sail, was a decent amount. I also made stuff that I wanted, that wasn't in the plans, such as the tiller extension, the coaming (which took a lot of time because of the complex angles, curves, and trying to get it to look right to my eye), belaying pins, the rubrails on both the hull and the cockpit, the attractive handle on the centerboard rod, you get the idea. An experienced builder with a good selection of power tools who is focused on function only could probably do it in 1/2 the time.

Hi,
Thanks for the info. Your time was worth it. Beautiful boat.
Regards,
Gene

[Smashing Transom]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the info. Love the colour! Beautiful!.
Regards,
Gene.

Hey Gene,

I thought about posting a blog but never go to it unfortunately even though I'm in IT. Computers are a nail bag to me. I also have 4 boys and thought one at least would get involved but too much surfing and skating to be had. Hopefully they'll sail. I do recommend doing it though if you have always wanted to. Great straight forward boat to build and sure beats TV. I followed Cracked Lid's posts every day with great interest as I was not too far behind him and it sure helped. Big thank you to you Cracked Lid for that and a great build as well. You guys unfortunately have a real winter to contend with and it's on its way so you better get cracking. Ours is all but done. I think the garage got down to 15 deg C one night! Real nasty.

[cracked lid]

Finally got a chance to try out the tiller tamer I made a month ago. It's adjustable from full-lock to unnoticeable by turning the wing nut. This will make rowing into the dock a lot easier as well as keeping them helm over while heaving to and going forward to make adjustments. The line runs through the center hole in the aft cleats. I lashed it to the tiller because this way it isn't permanent if I want to make further adjustments. I notched out the wood for the eye of the bolt to sit in. I tried it first without the leather strip, but it wouldn't fully bind without it.

[wildthyme]

Followed this thread with great interest and appreciation. It has been helpful as I tinker with my Phoenix lll. This last post, about the tiller tamer, for some reason, the pictures do not appear. Wondering if you would repost them.

[cracked lid]

Followed this thread with great interest and appreciation. It has been helpful as I tinker with my Phoenix lll. This last post, about the tiller tamer, for some reason, the pictures do not appear. Wondering if you would repost them.

You can see it here: http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/16/chest/nov/index.htm#.WMtJaqLavIU

[Mark O.]

Wonderful boat! Have you sailed or rowed her with two adults? Wondering how she balances with 200 lbs (me) rowing and another 150 lbs. in the aft seat. No motor weight. Thank-you.

[WI-Tom]

I've rowed a Phoenix III (lapstrake version of this boat) with two adults aboard. It's definitely a trade-off to have so much weight in the back seat--it's noticeably nicer to row with a single person aboard. But it's still good for rowing with two, and you get a better centerboard layout by giving up the forward rowing station to balance a passenger aft. The biggest problem is the tiller is on the centerline, which can cause your passenger to sit slightly off-center, which is a bit of an annoyance.

Tom