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Thread: History of the planing dinghy

  1. #36
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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Now, with the wind east in Long Island Sound, and blowing a single-reef breeze, it does not take long to kick up a sea, especially with an ebb tide. At least it did not that day, and soon the TARANTELLA commenced to race, lifted and borne on the crest of a wave, she should shoot forward with incredible speed. We settled away on the peak halyards and made, in effect, a leg-of-mutton sail from the mainsail. This made a very easy rig, and one particularly adapted for off-wind sailing.

    And now, whilst we are flying along, with the waves lifting and breaking high under the after tie-beam, let us overhaul another of the alleged failings of the catamaran, to wit: their tendency to turn over endwise or pitchpole. Now, the center of effort of the sails of the TARANTELLA is 14 '6" above the waterline. With the wind abaft of beam, the tendency to bury the bows of the hull is quite obvious. This desire to bury forward is corrected, in a measure, first by having more than an ordinarily large jib, which, on account of its inclined position, lifts strongly that part of the boat. Then the midship link, at which point is imparted most of the press of the sails upon the leeward boat, is so placed in relation to the displacement of the hulls that the downward push (to which the force of the wind on the sails is resolved) presses more toward the stern, so the leeward boat always keeps in good fore-and-aft trim. The trouble then lies only in the lifting of the stern of the windward hull. Of course, if you lift the stern of the boat, and thus make the bow bury itself, the effect is just the same, and just as unpleasant as when the bow sinks for want of buoyancy with the trim of the stern where it should be.

    Building the catamaran high in the bows cannot remedy this fault in the least degree; the only thing to be done is to take care of the stern, and the bow will take care of itself. Having stationary ballast will keep the stern down, but this is against my principles. I want to have everything about the boat as light as can possibly be; so when the stern of the TARANTELLA looks light, my companion sits on it, and says it is one of the best seats on the whole boat. It is almost always dry, and one gets there a real sense of the speed with which she tears along.
    NG Herreshoff 1877

    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/...aran/index.htm


    Sounds like a planing dinghy to me.
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    NG Herreshoff 1877 http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/...aran/index.htm Sounds like a planing dinghy to me.
    Here we get into the knotty problem of what constitutes planing. I don't think the narrow hulls of the catamaran are planing, because shapes that produce little lift are as fast or faster than those that are flatter. It seems to me that the hull's lift is part of what makes it planing, and of course, the effectively longer waterline as the water breaks cleanly from the transom. By most standards, it isn't planing until the boat reaches 2.4 X the square root of the waterline length in knots, so there are plenty of designs that will exceed hull speed but not plane. I'm not sure what to call what catamarans do other than going fast. There doesn't seem to be a transition point, whereas a planing boat suddenly needs less power to keep going than it needed to get out of the hole.

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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I had thought that pirogues were quite narrow canoes made for paddeling or poling, more like the Essex punts that Dylan champions. The Norfolk punts were always beamier, and as the new one pictured sailing indicates, often considerably beamier due to their dual purpose - gunning in season and a general workboat at other times.
    So, are we talking about a flat-bottomed, single-chined gunning skiff in both cases? Flat-bottomed, doubtle-ended boats, according to Greenhill, go back at least 2,000 years in northern Europe and had reached a high level of development by the 5th century AD. The shape was simple and useful, and could be adapted to many tasks. Unlike more complex shapes, they strike me as capable of developing some lift, though the sterns needed to be modified so that they could plane with a person aboard.

  4. #39

    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    I agree, catamaran hulls don't plane

    If you have an hour or two spare you might like to read this thread

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/hyd...ing-45248.html

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com

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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard of Woods Designs View Post
    I agree, catamaran hulls don't plane

    If you have an hour or two spare you might like to read this thread

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/hyd...ing-45248.html

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
    That's quite informative. You can certainly get into difficulties with simple definitions, because in shallow water, hulls can develop a lot of lift well below planing speed. Lazauskas's definition, "Planing is a state where a vessel's weight is supported more by hydrodynamic forces than by buoyancy," leaves out the fact that the express canal boats of the 1830s used hyrdrodynamic bearing to travel at 10 knots while being towed by horse.

    Some pretty good history here:

    http://www.ma.hw.ac.uk/solitons/HIST...ANAL_BOATS.pdf

    A BRIEF HISTORY OF EXPRESS CANAL BOATS Around 1830, when the canal passage boat services were well established, a proprietor of such a service in Scotland had an amazing experience. He was William Houston, who became the acknowledged expert in what was a “ leading edge ” technology of the day. The source of his future prosperity occurred by accident, when his horse took fright whilst towing an empty boat, and bolted. He decided to hang on, expecting the resistance of the boat to quickly tire the horse. Imagine his alarm when the boat rose up onto its bow wave and shot off along the canal at high speed. John Scott Russell, in his account given to the Edinburgh Royal Society, described how “ Mr Houston had the tact to perceive the mercantile advantage ” . He also described Houston ’ s astonishment when he observed “ that the foaming stern surge, which used to devastate the banks, had ceased ” . It was this unexpected drop in the boat ’ s resistance that allowed the horse to continue so far. At 10 mph, return day trips over the 8 miles from Paisley to Glasgow became very popular. By 1835, his accounts showed 323,290 passenger trips in one year. The “ Illustrated History of British Canals ” by Charles Hadfield shows a tenfold increase in these five years with the number of boat trips tripled to 12 a day each way. Hadfield quotes the typical speed as 10 m.p.h, regularly maintained, at fares no higher than those for the previous 4 m.p.h. service. It was a wonder of the times. So how did they do that? The difficulties encountered by others who endeavoured to copy Houston ’ s success led to the appointment of the young scientific prodigy, John Scott Russell, to investigate. At least 4 experimental boats were built and tested, and their details recorded in “ Mr Russell ’ s Researches in Hydrodynamics ” , a paper read to the society in 1837, and published in 1840 (Transactions of the Edinburgh Royal Society XIV, pp47-109) with 62 pages of text plus illustrations
    The boats were, if I recall correctly, about 60' long, so they were traveling close to hull speed but having the power needed to push them dramatically reduced by the lift they were getting.

    I personally think the definition of planing should focus on lift, and the ability to experience dramatically lower drag while exceeding hulls speed, but in the past, Nick as informed me that until you get to 2.4 X the square root of the waterline length in knots, you're not planing. This isn't how sailors generally use the term. To most sailors you talk to, once the boat gets over the bow wave and exceeds hull speed, they think they are planing even if they are only going 2 X etc. Thus, Snipe sailors and Lightning sailors are convinced their boats plane, while if memory serves, Nick thinks their hull shape would make them incapable of planing.

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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    By the way, for comparison, here's an example of what most boats were like at the time, the 1924 Olympic monotype (in Paris that summer.)






    Heavy, stable, big rig, not much chance of exceeding hull speed.

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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    So, are we talking about a flat-bottomed, single-chined gunning skiff in both cases? Flat-bottomed, doubtle-ended boats, according to Greenhill, go back at least 2,000 years in northern Europe and had reached a high level of development by the 5th century AD. The shape was simple and useful, and could be adapted to many tasks. Unlike more complex shapes, they strike me as capable of developing some lift, though the sterns needed to be modified so that they could plane with a person aboard.
    This is the narrower Essex gun punt that Dylan builds and films from. Much narrower than the working Norfolk punt.

    There are a lot of flat bottomed double ended boats in the English tradition. The include the crudely built Somerset levels turf boat, Parrett and Wachet flatners, Fleet trows, et all. They are documented in The Chatham Directory. The only one developed into a fast racing boat were the Norfolk punt.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post

    I personally think the definition of planing should focus on lift, and the ability to experience dramatically lower drag while exceeding hulls speed, but in the past, Nick as informed me that until you get to 2.4 X the square root of the waterline length in knots, you're not planing. This isn't how sailors generally use the term. To most sailors you talk to, once the boat gets over the bow wave and exceeds hull speed, they think they are planing even if they are only going 2 X etc. Thus, Snipe sailors and Lightning sailors are convinced their boats plane, while if memory serves, Nick thinks their hull shape would make them incapable of planing.
    Yes, when you look at Uffa's boats you will see that the buttocks are practically straight aft. The Snipe and Lightning, as well as the French mono-type, the 14 foot class and Sorceress all have fuller buttocks. This would make them squat aft as the convex curves lower the pressure and pull the stern down. You also need wide waterlines aft, which is why the sailing canoes tend towards circular plan form sterns. Otherwise you lose area from the surface that experiences the dynamic pressure that replaces the buoyancy forces.
    Modern planing motor boats illustrate the optimum solution. The bottom is as wide at the transom as it is amidships, and the buttocks are ruler straight, or possibly even hooked. Unfortunately that has a lot of wetted surface drag at lower speeds. The National Twelve sailors trim the boats down by the bow in light airs to lift the stern out of the water in order to reduce wetted surface.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  8. #43
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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    These buttock lines look pretty straight to me, and of course, the type evolved after this boat was drawn:



    Of course, the deflection angle matters as well as how straight the buttocks are. American planing boats tended to focus on the former. Here's Ted Geary's 1928 design for the Flattie, now called the Geary 18.



    When these catch a gust, they shoot forward instead of digging a hole. They are really sharp-bowed scows, with the stem well above the waterline.

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    ^ Not as straight as the Redwing or Rocket buttocks and rebate line. The curve is of a different character.
    I agree that boats with flat bottom and the chine as low as that need to keep the bow well out of the water. If the stem/chine is immersed the water has to change direction at an angled edge to go under the bottom, causing turbulence and drag.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    By the way, this is a a photograph of the plans for a Nat Herreshoff design that started this controversy. It's a 13 1/2 foot spitsail boat from April, 1900, that I thought looked like a planing dinghy and Nick thinks could never plane. It has a bit more rocker than most planing boats and is shallow and flat for more of its length than the deep-chested Uffa Fox type. Please pardon the quality of reproduction. I believe it was designed to race with Woods Hole spritsail boats, and probably made everything else obsolete.


  11. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    ^ Not as straight as the Redwing or Rocket buttocks and rebate line. The curve is of a different character.
    I agree that boats with flat bottom and the chine as low as that need to keep the bow well out of the water. If the stem/chine is immersed the water has to change direction at an angled edge to go under the bottom, causing turbulence and drag.
    Now, the deflection angle on that hull is not what any American designer of the 1930s would have used for a fast boat. It's so deeply Veed, they would have thought it would lack lift. Nor would an English designer have used as much rocker as Geary, but I've sailed on and against Geary 18s, and they certainly leap ahead when a gust hits while they're headed down wind. It's particularly noticeable if they are racing next to a non-planing boat like a Blanchard Junior Knockabout.

    I think one of the reasons Geary lifted the bow so high on the flattie was that these boats need to be heeled going to windward, and he designed it so that the waterlines are pretty straight when the boat is heeled, so it doesn't develop weather helm.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    By the way, this is a a photograph of the plans for a Nat Herreshoff design that started this controversy. It's a 13 1/2 foot spitsail boat from April, 1900, that I thought looked like a planing dinghy and Nick thinks could never plane. It has a bit more rocker than most planing boats and is shallow and flat for more of its length than the deep-chested Uffa Fox type. Please pardon the quality of reproduction. I believe it was designed to race with Woods Hole spritsail boats, and probably made everything else obsolete.

    Almost pot bellied . The deepest sections are so far aft. It is not really even a semi displacement hull form.
    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Now, the deflection angle on that hull is not what any American designer of the 1930s would have used for a fast boat. It's so deeply Veed, they would have thought it would lack lift.
    I mentioned at the start of this thread that our waters are lumper than yours, so the deeper vees give a softer ride and allow the boat to part their way rather than slam and stop.
    Think of the Ray Hunt deep vee and Don Levi deeper vee forms.

    I think one of the reasons Geary lifted the bow so high on the flattie was that these boats need to be heeled going to windward, and he designed it so that the waterlines are pretty straight when the boat is heeled, so it doesn't develop weather helm.
    I can see how that would work, especially if the heel is enough to create a slender hull with lower wetted surface area.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Almost pot bellied . The deepest sections are so far aft. It is not really even a semi displacement hull form.
    I mentioned at the start of this thread that our waters are lumper than yours, so the deeper vees give a softer ride and allow the boat to part their way rather than slam and stop.
    Think of the Ray Hunt deep vee and Don Levi deeper vee forms.


    I can see how that would work, especially if the heel is enough to create a slender hull with lower wetted surface area.
    Yes, it's quite amusing to see sailors used to modern dinghies sailing Geary 18s flat and falling behind those heeled at an outlandish angle. I prefer the V bottomed type, which becomes inefficient as it heels beyond the optimum angle, to the flat-bottomed type, which flips when it heels beyond the optimum angle, but that's just me.

    I wonder if on boats like the Redwing the laps of the clinker construction may have worked like the planing strakes on one of Ray Hunt's deep-vee designs. In the U.S., lapstrake is rare on racing boats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Almost pot bellied . The deepest sections are so far aft. It is not really even a semi displacement hull form.
    Scow shapes haven't changed much, so the boat in the video in the opening post would be shaped very much like this 1926 scow.


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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I expect that there was a different development history in the UK, the USA, and Oz. In the UK fast boats had to be designed to handle lumpy water, hence the softer bows and higher chines and deadrise on chine boats. US waters are more sheltered, the East Coast being in the lee of the big weather, so vintage American forms have lower chines to the bow or are practically flat (arc) bottomed.

    The NZ Patiki's that are mentioned in the thread were developed around the turn of the century specifically for the harbour at Napier. It was sheltered and flat water with a regular good breeze from an optimal angle. I don't know the specifics of the dates , but these boats regularly planed and raced each other doing it. Its not a one off event in extreme conditions.
    Anyway, there was a very infamous earthquake here at Napier in ... 1934? I think , which destroyed the town and took the harbour. Just took it.
    So the patiki fleet then tried sailing in the open ocean but weren't up to it and quickly developed problems. The fleet went off different ways around the country, I've seen mention of a couple up here. They were very lightly built for the methods of the day.
    Patiki means flat or flatfish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Yes, it's quite amusing to see sailors used to modern dinghies sailing Geary 18s flat and falling behind those heeled at an outlandish angle. I prefer the V bottomed type, which becomes inefficient as it heels beyond the optimum angle, to the flat-bottomed type, which flips when it heels beyond the optimum angle, but that's just me.

    I wonder if on boats like the Redwing the laps of the clinker construction may have worked like the planing strakes on one of Ray Hunt's deep-vee designs. In the U.S., lapstrake is rare on racing boats.
    Yes and No, they are not as prominent but they will help shed the film of water running up the sides, however a spray rail on a motor boat is big enough to act like a chine. There was some research using a model tank that determined the direction of flow on a planing bottom. They then added the rails so that they were perpendicular to the flow (or as close as they could get) with the effect that wetted surface was minimised, and air was drawn down to lubricate the surface.
    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Scow shapes haven't changed much, so the boat in the video in the opening post would be shaped very much like this 1926 scow.

    How flat are those scows sailed? When going down wind, how do they trim, level or stern down?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    The NZ Patiki's that are mentioned in the thread were developed around the turn of the century specifically for the harbour at Napier. It was sheltered and flat water with a regular good breeze from an optimal angle. I don't know the specifics of the dates , but these boats regularly planed and raced each other doing it. Its not a one off event in extreme conditions.
    Anyway, there was a very infamous earthquake here at Napier in ... 1934? I think , which destroyed the town and took the harbour. Just took it.
    So the patiki fleet then tried sailing in the open ocean but weren't up to it and quickly developed problems. The fleet went off different ways around the country, I've seen mention of a couple up here. They were very lightly built for the methods of the day.
    Patiki means flat or flatfish.
    I believe this is a patiki, but I'm not sure which one, or what date.

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sai...t-26105-3.html

    I really need to get a copy of Fast, Light Boats. These were very scow like, but much more lightly built than the inland lake scows.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    For reference, here's a 1901 American scow design.


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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    The NZ Patiki's that are mentioned in the thread were developed around the turn of the century specifically for the harbour at Napier. It was sheltered and flat water with a regular good breeze from an optimal angle. I don't know the specifics of the dates , but these boats regularly planed and raced each other doing it. Its not a one off event in extreme conditions.

    Anyway, there was a very infamous earthquake here at Napier in ... 1934? I think , which destroyed the town and took the harbour. Just took it.
    So the patiki fleet then tried sailing in the open ocean but weren't up to it and quickly developed problems. The fleet went off different ways around the country, I've seen mention of a couple up here. They were very lightly built for the methods of the day.

    Patiki means flat or flatfish.
    The Napier earthquake took place in 1931, and much of the former inner harbour became dry land. Here's a famous photo that shows the proportions of the class, which was the result of the Parnell Sailing Club of Auckland asking the Logan Brothers firm to design "an economical centreboarder suitable for younger sailors" in 1898. "In response, they produced an 18 ft. 6 in. clinker-built boat that the club called a "Patiki" from the Mori word used for various kinds of flatfish. "



    Described as a "restricted half-rater," with three-man crews, the class attracted attention with some very fast fleet racing and soon was transplanted to the inner harbour at Napier, where conditions were ideal.

    Copied here is a post from boatdesign.net by Gary Baigent of Auckland, http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sai...t-26105-2.html, about the class (my notes in italics):

    two fast NZ classics


    These two New Zealand classic designs of the mid to late 1890's were all very fast boats, so fast that the Logan designed Sunbeam, a very early separate bulb keel yacht, was ostracized by the local fleets because it was a class killer so the boat was sold to Australia, where it was far more appreciated. The 27 foot Napier centreboard Patikis were also rocketships.

    Mixed fleet racing on the Manukau (Harbour, south Auckland) was competitive and although a number of privately owned Patikis were launched to beat Maka Maili, then Ngaroma, few succeeded. Patikis were considered freakish but no other design could beat them and crowds would gather at race days to make side bets.

    Patiki enthusiast A.H. McCarthy once sailed his Bob Farquhar designed 27 foot Sayonara over a measured five miles when it was timed to cover the distance in 10 minutes 58 seconds. He was adamant that in squalls Sayonara touched 40 miles per hour a speed so great that audiences just shook their heads. McCarthy claimed the shorter and less speedy Ngaroma averaged 30 miles per hour over three miles on the Manukau. Although these claims seem excessive, even today, there was no doubt that these lightweight flatfish were exceptionally fast and decades ahead of their time. They readily planed on their after sections, something that was not generally accepted worldwide until the 1930s when Northern Hemisphere writers came to terms with the then, radically new planing International 12s and 14s from Uffa Fox who was the first to cleverly exploit dinghy rules.



    This photo of Patikis with one being lifted from the water shows just how light the hulls were.




    This is a larger Patiki than those raced in the original class, such as the one pictured below.



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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    This has become a fantastic thread!! Pleeeease preserve it!

    Rick

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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Turns out the Napier earthquake was in 1931. Apparently the Patikis started moving the rudder inboard in 1906, so the design above, with both and outboard rudder and two inboard rudders, was probably built before 1906 and modified after that.
    Last edited by johnw; 05-26-2013 at 01:15 AM. Reason: typo in the date.

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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Chip, the 1898 18-footer was not the famous sort of patiki. The famous ones were the 27 footers like the one in post 52 and the second picture in your post.

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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Napier earthquake is very famous. It was 1931.

    Rick

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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Here are two more photos from Anderson's Fast Light Boats with captions.


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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Yes and No, they are not as prominent but they will help shed the film of water running up the sides, however a spray rail on a motor boat is big enough to act like a chine. There was some research using a model tank that determined the direction of flow on a planing bottom. They then added the rails so that they were perpendicular to the flow (or as close as they could get) with the effect that wetted surface was minimised, and air was drawn down to lubricate the surface.


    How flat are those scows sailed? When going down wind, how do they trim, level or stern down?
    They trim like this:



    Pretty much as flat as they can sail them when reaching in a strong breeze. They don't move the weight aft, the crew stays in pretty much the same position as they do to windward. However, to windward they heel the boats, at least in light winds. As the speed picks up, they start to worry less about reducing wetted surface and waterline beam.

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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    When planing and flying merge:



    Rick

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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    This will give a better feeling for how they sail the boats to windward in a moderate breeze. It's from Melges Media, so it should be a crack crew.


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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    This will give you a feeling for the shape of a C scow:
    http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3511



    http://www.melges.com/boat.php?p=pages/boats/C-scow

    I'm afraid you'll find them a bit "pot-bellied," but they seem to potter around a race course slightly quicker than a Flying Dutchman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    They trim like this:



    Pretty much as flat as they can sail them when reaching in a strong breeze. They don't move the weight aft, the crew stays in pretty much the same position as they do to windward. However, to windward they heel the boats, at least in light winds. As the speed picks up, they start to worry less about reducing wetted surface and waterline beam.
    Looking at where the bow wave leaves the hull she trims bow up stern down when flat out, with a lot of the bow clear of the water. I wonder whether moving the crew weight would make much difference considering the lightship/live ballast weight ratio. With the shape of the hull that is the attitude they will need to adopt to plane, the question being does suction aft and hence drag cause the change in trim.
    This is what I referred to with the 12's using crew weight to control wetted surface area for the differing wind conditions.


    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  30. #65
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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    When planing and flying merge:


    Rick
    The historic 18s were quite a bit more sedate, but spectacular.



    My question is, when did these become planing boats? Were they from the first races in 1892, or did a revolutionary boat (or series of boats) break through?

  31. #66
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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Looking at where the bow wave leaves the hull she trims bow up stern down when flat out, with a lot of the bow clear of the water. I wonder whether moving the crew weight would make much difference considering the lightship/live ballast weight ratio. With the shape of the hull that is the attitude they will need to adopt to plane, the question being does suction aft and hence drag cause the change in trim.
    This is what I referred to with the 12's using crew weight to control wetted surface area for the differing wind conditions.


    I think it's lift forward rather than suction aft that raises the bow of the scows. They are quite a bit flatter forward than the Fox type of planing boat, as are most American boats designed to be fast before Fox's influence reached these shores.

    Yes, I've sailed on boats that needed the crew forward going to weather and aft to get on a plane. I've also sailed with crews who wanted to move aft on a Geary 18, and I had to explain that wasn't necessary.

    Most sailors around here don't actually know how to distribute their weight on a scow, because most junior programs don't use them.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    The historic 18s were quite a bit more sedate, but spectacular.
    Oh, don't say that too loudly down at the Sydney Flying Squadron! They would hate being described as sedate!

    There's a fleet of about 10 traditional 18s that sail in Sydney every Saturday through summer. It's not too difficult to get a ride but you have to be prepared to be bruised and abused! For those not so inclined, the Squadron also runs a ferry that for the grand sum of $2 takes passengers out onto the race course and follows the race. It's probably the best way to watch Sydney Harbour sailing - highly recommended for any visitors to Sydney!

    Rick

  33. #68
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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Oh, don't say that too loudly down at the Sydney Flying Squadron! They would hate being described as sedate!

    There's a fleet of about 10 traditional 18s that sail in Sydney every Saturday through summer. It's not too difficult to get a ride but you have to be prepared to be bruised and abused! For those not so inclined, the Squadron also runs a ferry that for the grand sum of $2 takes passengers out onto the race course and follows the race. It's probably the best way to watch Sydney Harbour sailing - highly recommended for any visitors to Sydney!

    Rick
    Perhaps that's not the proper insult? I'll bet they swim less often than the crews of the newer boats, and never touch 30 knots.

    I think it's great that they're reviving the historic types. But I'm still wondering, when did they start to plane?

  34. #69
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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy



    That looks very much like Sunbeam to me Chips, and I've never heard of her being called a Patiki before, in fact I wouldn't. She was about 42 ft Logan bros fin keel boat of circa 1900 or so.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: History of the planing dinghy

    Given the success of the scow hull form, why did table racing never catch on?


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