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Thread: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

  1. #101
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Trigger locks are hardly a simplistic cure. If used correctly, they severely cut down on accidental shootings. How exactly is that simplistic. No, they won't eliminate gun violence (good luck with that) but it would prevent a hell of a lot of accidents.
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  2. #102
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Mandatory firearms safety training in second grade.

    Mandatory single-shot .22 rifle training in third grade.

    Mandatory single-shot shotgun (.410) in fourth grade.

    Mandatory pump-action shotgun, and bolt and lever action rifle, in fifth grade.

    Mandatory handgun, revolver and semi-automatic, in sixth grade.

    Each county to have at least one 1,000 meter rifle range, and at least one 50 meter pistol range, free for public use at least three days a week, staffed by retired military shooting instructors.

    Military ammo available (5.56 and 7.62 rifle, 9 mm and .45 pistol) available free to citizens at those ranges, but it must be shot at the range, not taken elsewhere.

    You see (or maybe you don't) I think the primary cause of the "gun violence" problem is ignorance. I think that too many people think that firearms are magic wands, for good and evil. I want to change that ignorance.
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  3. #103
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    OK, so people will tout the founders as being brilliant is supposedly giving a right to bear arms YAY, but apparently these same people don't give them much credit in the creation of the govt...


    HELLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Our govt is set up so as to prevent the risk of running into a totalitarian dictator!!!! Comparing us to Cambodia? HOLY STUPID!!!!!! Ya, we are so at risk of a coup!!! And comparing a president to Hitler??? Ya, like a US president has any real power!


    I hate unrealistic comparrisons meant to instil some stupid reactionary fear. Pol Pot is not going to take over America kids! Hell, think about it. What size group would you need to bring about a coup on our govt??? reality folks, it's not really that bad a place to live

    Does anyone really think for one second that in the next 4 years Obama will somehow covert all power onto the president and become a dictator? ummm... errrrr, he can't get congress to do much of anything, but ya.... he will become the next hitler. Good golly!
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  4. #104
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by tizziec View Post
    Trigger locks are hardly a simplistic cure. If used correctly, they severely cut down on accidental shootings. How exactly is that simplistic. No, they won't eliminate gun violence (good luck with that) but it would prevent a hell of a lot of accidents.
    Actually, they cause accidents, because if the firearm is loaded and you try to put a trigger lock on the firearm, you are likely to discharge the firearm by pressing the lock against the trigger. Or when you remove it, likewise.

    I don't know if the trigger lock was invented by someone who really did not understand firearms, or someone who was actually trying to create more accidental discharges.

    Use some other kind of lock.
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

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  5. #105
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    Mandatory firearms safety training in second grade.

    Mandatory single-shot .22 rifle training in third grade.

    Mandatory single-shot shotgun (.410) in fourth grade.

    Mandatory pump-action shotgun, and bolt and lever action rifle, in fifth grade.

    Mandatory handgun, revolver and semi-automatic, in sixth grade.

    Each county to have at least one 1,000 meter rifle range, and at least one 50 meter pistol range, free for public use at least three days a week, staffed by retired military shooting instructors.

    Military ammo available (5.56 and 7.62 rifle, 9 mm and .45 pistol) available free to citizens at those ranges, but it must be shot at the range, not taken elsewhere.

    You see (or maybe you don't) I think the primary cause of the "gun violence" problem is ignorance. I think that too many people think that firearms are magic wands, for good and evil. I want to change that ignorance.

    God help me!!!! Since the age of, well any age, every kid I know has taken what can be shot, thrown or catapulted and put a cross hair on my arse and gone for it! I can't tell ya how many damn nerf darts has bounced off my butt cheeks! Ya, give them guns that shoot bullets!


    GAWDS even flashllights get aimed at me!

    Oh and ya, teaching KIDS always ends well... No boy has every used something in a way that ended with nutting himself or bottle rocket burns in precarious places
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  6. #106
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    Actually, they cause accidents, because if the firearm is loaded and you try to put a trigger lock on the firearm, you are likely to discharge the firearm by pressing the lock against the trigger. Or when you remove it, likewise.

    I don't know if the trigger lock was invented by someone who really did not understand firearms, or someone who was actually trying to create more accidental discharges.

    Use some other kind of lock.

    Ya, I did mention if used CORRECTLY... storing a loaded fire arm, with or without a trigger lock, would be using it INcorrectly!

    It was apparently invented by someone who was aware of basic firearm safety. Hell, in my house I was not allowed to put my stinking BB gun away till it was checked empty by an adult. If it wasn't empty when they checked, I lost privelages to use it
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  7. #107
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by ccmanuals View Post
    Was thinking. How about a law that requires that all gun manufacturers and or resellers must include some kind of a locking device when they sell a gun? Maybe even require the manufacturer to include it in the packaging. If these devices are plentiful and available wouldn't owners be more inclined to use them?

    We hear of so many tragic accidents in the home were kids get ahold of guns and shoot themselves or someone else.

    We have laws that say that automobiles must have seat belts and airbags. Isn't this the same kind of safety thing we could legislate?
    Some manufacturers have already done that. I have an S&W revolver and a Taurus revolver with built in locks. You can't tell the lock is there. It requires a small hex like key to operate. I don't use the locks, I lock the entire weapon up in a secure box.

  8. #108
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Smart guns, they're here just not fully developed, but it won't help with all the wacko rightwing fascists running around with older guns demanding the second amendment be interpreted the way they want or else.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrleft8 View Post
    Are you a convicted felon Rod?
    "Are you a convicted felon Rod?" --Mrleft8.

    Just curious--what was the purpose of this question? I don't see any discussion in this thread justifying such a comment.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by tizziec View Post
    God help me!!!! Since the age of, well any age, every kid I know has taken what can be shot, thrown or catapulted and put a cross hair on my arse and gone for it! I can't tell ya how many damn nerf darts has bounced off my butt cheeks! Ya, give them guns that shoot bullets!


    GAWDS even flashllights get aimed at me!

    Oh and ya, teaching KIDS always ends well... No boy has every used something in a way that ended with nutting himself or bottle rocket burns in precarious places
    The goal (well, one of the goals) is to make firearms boring by the time they're teenagers and become crazy. "Go practice your pistol." "Oh, Dad, do I have to?"
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

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  11. #111
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by tizziec View Post
    Ya, I did mention if used CORRECTLY... storing a loaded fire arm, with or without a trigger lock, would be using it INcorrectly!

    It was apparently invented by someone who was aware of basic firearm safety. Hell, in my house I was not allowed to put my stinking BB gun away till it was checked empty by an adult. If it wasn't empty when they checked, I lost privelages to use it
    That's the accident that causes the discharge. You think it's empty, and BANG!

    The trigger lock doesn't know if the gun is loaded or not.
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    As we play right into their hands, the financial sector still goes unregulated. The biggest threat to your way of life wasn't bin laden and isn't a nut with a gun....it's a young immoral banker in a suit. Right around the block is a 300k house foreclosed from under a pre school teacher and FedEx driver who couldn't make a downpayment. Is that smoke I smell??? Hand me my fiddle.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Coose View Post
    Quick pool on the guy who is holding the firefighters hostage.

    Is he holding them hostage with a:
    Hair Dryer
    utility knife
    a gun
    a poodle
    On the other hand, this coward picked firefighters to lure into his trap specificly because he knew they would not be armed.

    SUWANEE, Ga. (AP) — Police say a man who held firefighters hostage for hours in a suburban Atlanta home was heavily armed with a half-dozen guns, and told the firefighters that he targeted them so he wouldn't be shot.
    Ratus ratus bilgeous snipeous!

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    The goal (well, one of the goals) is to make firearms boring by the time they're teenagers and become crazy. "Go practice your pistol." "Oh, Dad, do I have to?"
    that is EXACTLY what I did... it works
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    That's the accident that causes the discharge. You think it's empty, and BANG!

    The trigger lock doesn't know if the gun is loaded or not.
    What idiot puts their gun away loaded, or cleans it or locks it without properly checking it? If you can't handle that much, then frankly you should be allowed tohave agun. RESPONSIBILITY!!!!


    A gun doesn't know if a person is an idiot or not either, but it doesn't stop it from becoming a killing machine does it.

    A trigger lock keeps kids free from harm, relatively at least. My uncle hada gun in his sick drawer. as kids we took it out to look at everytime he went out. It was stored empty, open and with a big old pad lock through it. Had he not done that, hell yes it's likely my cuz nd I would have killed each other... we were dumb kids.
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  16. #116
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    The goal (well, one of the goals) is to make firearms boring by the time they're teenagers and become crazy. "Go practice your pistol." "Oh, Dad, do I have to?"
    hmmm I have yet to find the boy who EVER finds things that go BOOM boring! Girls... a bit different story, but just how much gun practice would it take to make a BOY bored with it??????? Hell, Iam lucky if I get out of the way when the grown men I know find a tin of black powder and start the home made fireworks! Same crap they did as kids... big booms always give them the giggles
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by tizziec View Post
    hmmm I have yet to find the boy who EVER finds things that go BOOM boring! Girls... a bit different story, but just how much gun practice would it take to make a BOY bored with it??????? Hell, Iam lucky if I get out of the way when the grown men I know find a tin of black powder and start the home made fireworks! Same crap they did as kids... big booms always give them the giggles
    believe me... it worked... two boys and a girl

    my oldest son had to come to me in his late twenties to show him how to load the rifle his wife bought him
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    believe me... it worked... two boys and a girl

    my oldest son had to come to me in his late twenties to show him how to load the rifle his wife bought him
    I hope you told him to sell it, that's embarrassing.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogdog View Post
    I hope you told him to sell it, that's embarrassing.
    he just didn't have any interest in rifles... as was my plan. I guess it shows that he is Colorado's top pic for writing gun laws though There is nothing wrong with being ignorant of one thing or another... until the ignorant attempt to rule by their ignorance... we have lots of that these days. "Once the bullets in the magazine/clip are used up, no one will be able to buy more magazines/clips with bullets in them"
    (it lookks like the ignorant leading the stupid to me)
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    So Phillip, you'd be good with me writing firearm legislation then?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    There is nothing wrong with being ignorant of one thing or another... until the ignorant attempt to rule by their ignorance... we have lots of that these days...
    (it lookks like the ignorant leading the stupid to me)
    That's certainly correct, but I don't see the the NRA-ILA and their membership changing, do you?

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    Mandatory firearms safety training in second grade.

    Mandatory single-shot .22 rifle training in third grade.

    Mandatory single-shot shotgun (.410) in fourth grade.

    Mandatory pump-action shotgun, and bolt and lever action rifle, in fifth grade.

    Mandatory handgun, revolver and semi-automatic, in sixth grade.

    Each county to have at least one 1,000 meter rifle range, and at least one 50 meter pistol range, free for public use at least three days a week, staffed by retired military shooting instructors.

    Military ammo available (5.56 and 7.62 rifle, 9 mm and .45 pistol) available free to citizens at those ranges, but it must be shot at the range, not taken elsewhere.

    You see (or maybe you don't) I think the primary cause of the "gun violence" problem is ignorance. I think that too many people think that firearms are magic wands, for good and evil. I want to change that ignorance.
    Surely you jest! Approximately half of the population of the U.S. has no interest in firearms and a large portion of that half takes a moral stance against them and you're gonna require them to take part in firearms training and force them to pay for your participation in the 'past time' through their tax dollars. That's your solution? Further your suggestion does nothing to restrict access to firearms from criminals or the mentally ill. Give me a break. . .
    Last edited by Paul Pless; 04-11-2013 at 04:52 PM.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    I was taught to shoot, taught firearms safety, the lot.

    As a 13 year old, I still played with the WWII Enfield that a houseguest who lived with us for a couple of years kept in his closet. I am damned lucky that I didn't have any tragic accidents.

    My own boys are no smarter in that respect than I am; so when my youngest got old enough to "explore" a bit, I got rid of my Dad's old rifle, and an 1822 pattern cavalry sabre I'd bought. I knew that they'd disregard my rules, just as I'd done at their age.

    Had I a place for locked storage at the time, it might have been different.
    "The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible." - Oscar Wilde

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    Good question. I'm not expecting a coherent answer.

    Jeff C
    me either, dude's a troll plain and simple, only interested in slinging invective. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by RodSBT View Post
    ...
    I guess others here just aren't trust worthy or understand consequences?
    I prefer to think of it as being just a bit more entrepreneurial, and less docile.

    If everybody always followed the rules, you'd feel no need to keep a gun for self defence, would you Rod?
    "The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible." - Oscar Wilde

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by RodSBT View Post
    My folks had firearms around the house and I learned from an early age I was not to mess with them unless they( parent) were around and under their control, and followed that rule to a T.
    I guess others here just aren't trust worthy or understand consequences?
    It would be nice if all children were born with the same potential for learning and/or following instructions, but unfortunately it's not true. Obviously there are some parents who have more relaxed view regarding their children's security.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by RodSBT View Post
    My folks had firearms around the house and I learned from an early age I was not to mess with them unless they( parent) were around and under their control, and followed that rule to a T.
    I guess others here just aren't trust worthy or understand consequences?
    As a child, I unfortunately learned from consequences. Taking someone's word for it has never been in my wiring (Youngest syndrome??) Thankful the only guns I was near had padlocks through them.

    Granted I learned quick from consequences, and thankfully they were never of the tragic kind...

    My sis was the "I'll listen and take your word for it", I was... I will find out for myself and if I get railed I will learn from that.. And ya, I know, it's a wonder I survived myself (then again, I am of the genetic make up of my mother who still has a piece of a 22 in her arm from lining them up on the street and seeing what happens when you hit them with a hammer. Safety standards were a tad different in the 40s)
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Surely you jest! Approximately half of the population of the U.S. has no interest in firearms and a large portion of that half takes a moral stance against them and you're gonna require them to take part in firearms training and force them to pay for your participation in the 'past time' through their tax dollars. That's your solution? Further your suggestion does nothing to restrict access to firearms from criminals or the mentally ill. Give me a break. . .
    it's not a moral stance if it's based on ignorance, is it? Do you prefer that the ignorance be nurtured until the 'vote' can do what you want it to do? If we want to save people from accidents, why not educate them... ? If 'one' life can be saved, wouldn't it be worth it?

    If parents opt out of teaching their child about guns in general, could we require an extensive course on guns in order to operate one anywhere except on private property? To be paid by the people who opted out in the first place?

    What about the people shaking the insurance threat? Don't you think the insurance world would want the gun courses?
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    This thread sounds like gun people are going off of the edge. I need to get my background checked ! No big government ? or no government at all ? Extreme vocal gun nuts on TV shows are beginning to sound wackos who shoot people......
    How many shootings, nationally, so far this year ? Never ending debates......meanwhile, over in Chicago, people are falling like flies....and near here, the local city, Saginaw Mi, is very high on the number of killings in recent years, nationally, per capita...
    Luckily I don't live in the city...

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Surely you jest! Approximately half of the population of the U.S. has no interest in firearms and a large portion of that half takes a moral stance against them and you're gonna require them to take part in firearms training and force them to pay for your participation in the 'past time' through their tax dollars. That's your solution? Further your suggestion does nothing to restrict access to firearms from criminals or the mentally ill. Give me a break. . .
    No jest. I want us to return to the militia. Everybody learns, everybody serves. You don't have to stay.
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    No jest. I want us to return to the militia. Everybody learns, everybody serves. You don't have to stay.
    No, no.. I, too, want everyone to serve.. but think 'peace corp'.. No guns, no killing. 17th century thinking _has_ to go. We need to help, not kill, each other.

    peace
    bobby

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    No, no.. I, too, want everyone to serve.. but think 'peace corp'.. No guns, no killing. 17th century thinking _has_ to go. We need to help, not kill, each other.

    peace
    bobby
    I want them to learn how to handle firearms safely. I want them to understand in a kinetic fashion what happens when the gun goes "bang". I would like (but not require) that capable teachers (if not their parents) take them into the field for hunting. The program I outlined doesn't produce snipers, put trophies on the shelf, or meat on the table.

    I also want them to learn how to use a fire extinguisher, and to perform first aid and CPR.

    I hope all of their lives are such that they never have to use any of those skills -- firearms, fire extinguishment, first aid -- to save lives or homes. But I want them capable of doing so. Self-esteem comes from accomplishment, not from praise. "I did this." "I can do this."

    They can serve in the militia or the military or the peace corps or VISTA or the old folk's home. Where ever they serve, they may need those skills.

    There is more to life than dialing 911.
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    I want them to learn how to handle firearms safely. I want them to understand in a kinetic fashion what happens when the gun goes "bang". I would like (but not require) that capable teachers (if not their parents) take them into the field for hunting. The program I outlined doesn't produce snipers, put trophies on the shelf, or meat on the table.

    I also want them to learn how to use a fire extinguisher, and to perform first aid and CPR.

    I hope all of their lives are such that they never have to use any of those skills -- firearms, fire extinguishment, first aid -- to save lives or homes. But I want them capable of doing so. Self-esteem comes from accomplishment, not from praise. "I did this." "I can do this."

    They can serve in the militia or the military or the peace corps or VISTA or the old folk's home. Where ever they serve, they may need those skills.

    There is more to life than dialing 911.
    I'm afraid you would need to reverse the current 'wisdom' of vilifying guns and anyone who owns them. I took my (then)10 year old granddaughter into a gun shop to purchace something and to show her off to friends there... as she walked in the door and looked around, she said, "They shouldn't let little children come in here"
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Because it is in the BoR, which is in the constitution, the fed govt has every right to regulate and to over ride the states on their laws (and you can thank the not so slick anti-feds for that)

    Obviously we need SOMETHING done in this country. With such a horrible record with people and guns, we are seriously doing something WRONG.

    I would think everyone would want to fix it, but so few solutions come from the "gimme my guns" side that all we are left with is the "get rid of the guns side". One side is left with the burden of bringing SOMETHING to the table. Just sayin
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by tizziec View Post
    Because it is in the BoR, which is in the constitution, the fed govt has every right to regulate and to over ride the states on their laws (and you can thank the not so slick anti-feds for that)

    Obviously we need SOMETHING done in this country. With such a horrible record with people and guns, we are seriously doing something WRONG.

    I would think everyone would want to fix it, but so few solutions come from the "gimme my guns" side that all we are left with is the "get rid of the guns side". One side is left with the burden of bringing SOMETHING to the table. Just sayin
    I don't think anything is particularly obvious... there are more drownings and car crash death and so on... I don't see an hysterical movement to have those things banned. I think this is just political footbal.,. just keeping score and no more
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  36. #136
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    ..."I don't think anything is particularly obvious"...Phillip Allen

    Bingo! I knew it all along! Priceless!

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    There is more to life than dialing 911.
    Yes, first aid.. resuscitation of non breathing people, splinting a broken limb, stopping the flow of blood.. Lots of possibilities.. but killing? NFW. The 'we need guns to be safe' guys are BSC.

    There is no rational reason in the U.S. of A. to even begin to consider that 'firearm training' of the masses is a good, never mind necessary idea - your status as 'elder hoplophile', not withstanding.

    Now, if you _really_ believe self defense is a good & necessary skill, let's talk Tai-Chi for all students - from the age of 6, on. I'd love to see my taxes pay for that! But don't even think about using my taxes to pay for familiarity with tools expressly designed for killing.

    Meanwhile, do you really think that those of us unafraid to walk with out firearm 'protection' are wont to cry out to 911 as our main (or even common) solution? Heck, I've been lambasted by conservatives (gun loving christians to boot) for helping injured people instead of 'calling the experts'. You really don't understand. Many of us who find no need for guns are perhaps more self reliant (& likely more volunteering of aid to others) than those who feel the need for security.

    "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" & "The more you know, the less you need" come to mind.

    Get rid of the gun. Learn how to give a helping hand, in _all_ circumstances.

    After all, It's hard to offer a helping hand - when it's holding a gun.

    peace
    bobby

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    I don't think anything is particularly obvious... there are more drownings and car crash death and so on... I don't see an hysterical movement to have those things banned. I think this is just political footbal.,. just keeping score and no more
    Well, as far as I know, to drive you must prove you CAN before geting a license, and prove you know rules applied to it, and get a background check., Cars are constantly being updated with safety guyidelines (hhmm I had to have seatbelts put into my 56 ford and my 62 falcon)

    As far as Iknow, all towns DO have building codes that apply to backyard pools and ponds that exist for the safety of the whole. If you live near beaches you know people are very often up in arms about laws and regulations to reduce off hours drowning in the ocean.

    it's not the people looking to make it safe that are acting politically, or are politically intentioned (they may be reacting to tragedy though) but those standing their groud, refusing to accept that there is a "greater good" and refusing any step towards maintaining the safety of others that tend to keep it political.

    Never get so caught up in personal liberty that you forget the greater good. In thee slaughterhouse cases, the opposition to the public slaughterhouse were ready to give up hygiene to live in utter disgust, just to protect their personal liberties, while hoping to force everyone else to live in their disgust, get sick, and die as well.

    people once had the personal liberty of disposing of human waste however they chose, but that thankfully, that ended shortly after it was discovered that such practices were the source of cholera in public water.

    If people want so badly to keep their guns, they should be showing they are also willing to accept the responsibility they have to those around them and HELPING to find a solution and accepting safety measures intended on protecting the community.

    I swear, it's like dealing with a child! We all give out children things that we expect them to be responsible with, and I would guess i am not the only parent that takes things away when the child is NOT responsible with them. I don't allow my child to others at risk with her toys, why should i accept it of my neighbor?
    Row, row, row your boat ...

  39. #139
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    No jest. I want us to return to the militia. Everybody learns, everybody serves. You don't have to stay.
    A return to the militia? What Utopian period in American history are we talking about here? And there's never been anything approaching universal participation in militias. Further, there's never been a long term well organized militia in the United States. Sure militias have been raised and trained prior to the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812 and the Civil War, but between each of those wars and after the Civil War, militia movements in any organized sense always collapsed. I think we can both agree that the modern militia movements bare no similarities with the organized militias of the Nineteenth Century. . .
    Last edited by Paul Pless; 04-12-2013 at 06:15 AM.
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  40. #140
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    At this point I'd almost be willing to settle for not going backwards anymore than we already have. Among other notorious distinctions, Florida's Agriculture and consumer affairs secretary brags about having some of the most lax gun laws in the country.

    And, if it weren't for moments of sanity from the state supreme court, when you consider some of the past attempts of our legislators, it would be much worse.

    This article pretty well sums up the holes in our laws that could stand to be revised.

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...ts-say/1267397

    And something the article doesn't mention is that same paper carries around 200 ads daily in the sporting goods category. Of those, roughly 1/3 to 1/2 of them are bicycles, golf and fishing gear and peripherals for guns like holsters and cabinets. The other 100 items are ammo and firearms. Now, I haven't checked today but on average, one or two sellers state in their ads that they will require a concealed carry permit(witch requires a background check) and the rest are pretty much open to whoever want's them. Don't take my word for it though:

    http://secure.adpay.com/searchresult...3&catid=IFS164

    You don't have to be an expert with firearms to know something is seriously amiss here in Florida. And the sad part is that ALEC/NRA brags about this being a model state for the direction they'd like to see the country go in.
    Ask your doctor if medical advice from an ad on television is right for you.

  41. #141
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    I don't think anything is particularly obvious... there are more drownings and car crash death and so on... I don't see an hysterical movement to have those things banned. I think this is just political footbal.,. just keeping score and no more
    You actually believe there are more drowning deaths per year than gun deaths?

    Regarding your comparison to cars: do you understand the concept of utility? What about cost versus benefit? And nobody's trying to ban guns, we're trying to reduce accidental and intentional deaths from firearms through regulation of their ownership and use, just as we have done with cars over the last century. . .

    You make a lot of accusations that those you disagree with are spreading fear and ignorance, perhaps you should take a closer look at your own postings.
    Last edited by Paul Pless; 04-12-2013 at 07:18 AM.
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  42. #142
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Phillip doesn't actually believe in the sense of having a reason to think something true. He believes in the sense of being able to say whatever. It's freedom carried past reality.

  43. #143
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    You actually believe there are more drowning deaths per year than gun deaths?

    Regarding your comparison to cars: do you understand the concept of utility? What about cost versus benefit? And nobody's trying to ban guns, we're trying to reduce accidental and intentional deaths from firearms through regulation of their ownership and use, just as we have done with cars over the last century. . .

    You make a lot of accusations that those you disagree with are spreading fear and ignorance, perhaps you should take a closer look at your own postings.
    Paul, are you saying that I make 'a lot' more accusations of fear than, say, Elf? (who repeats the claim of fear with every single post)... and the collective total of nay-sayers who, daily, claim that the 'other' side uses fear to drive the ignorant? It is their collective, repeat5ed, deliberate lie I am responding to... FEAR (she says, fer gosh sakes)

    Bear in mind that the NEA has the present cod-lock on education... BTW
    Last edited by Phillip Allen; 04-12-2013 at 07:51 AM.
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  44. #144
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Spin and deflection, is that all you got old man?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  45. #145
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    repeating, Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    Paul, are you saying that I make 'a lot' more accusations of fear than, say, Elf? (who repeats the claim of fear with every single post)... and the collective total of nay-sayers who, daily, claim that the 'other' side uses fear to drive the ignorant? It is their collective, repeat5ed, deliberate lie I am responding to... FEAR (she says, fer gosh sakes)

    Bear in mind that the NEA has the present cod-lock on education... BTW
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  46. #146
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    So Phillip, how many drowning deaths per year? How many of children in the home compared to in home child gun deaths? And what do you think of the converging trends where, if they continue, firearms deaths will surpass auto deaths sometime in 2015?

    Or did you mean by " . . . there are more drownings and car crash death . . . " [#144] that drowning deaths PLUS car crash deaths was more than firearms deaths?

  47. #147
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    repeating, Paul
    So that is all you've got. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  48. #148
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    The NEA has a "Cod-lock" on education?.....
    Wow..... Next they'll be telling people that they have a right to think for themselves..... Better get the ACLU and the SPLC on this issue right away.....
    Never trust a man with a clean workshop.

  49. #149
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    very old info... 4 times as many drownings (suicide certainly is not to be counted of course)... BF uses it to tweek his numbers

    additionally there are no child guns... the phrase is a simple emotional appeal to the simple minded

    as far as convergence... I insist you qit rid of the 'construction' of suicide... anyone supporting pro-choice can certainly affirm the choice of some to commit suicide and not steal political advantage from their bodies to advance an unrelated agenda

    I believe over half of 'deaths by gun' are personal choices of the deceased
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  50. #150
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Phillip.... You're a decent law abiding citizen...... Why do you oppose background checks?
    Never trust a man with a clean workshop.

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