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Thread: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

  1. #71
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    there are a lot of folks here who seem to be ignoring of how our legal system works...but that doesn't stop them from saying (hopefully unintended) falsehoods anyway
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
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  2. #72
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Dave Wright -- it depends. Mostly on when and where (state) and where (store) the original purchase was. The original sale might have been recorded in a firearms dealer's bound book, and would remain there, eventually ending up in BATFE's this - is - not - a - firearms - registration - database made from old bound books, required to be turned over to them on end of business of the dealer. Long enough ago, it might not have been federally licensed dealership, no bound book, no state records. If it has a serial number, it was recorded, those came along after bound books were everywhere.
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  3. #73
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    I suppose that Phillip's riff about the legal system [#92] harkens back to his bit about innocent till proven guilty [#73]. Many people know the constitutional difference between a criminal charge and a perfectly normal question for employment or lisencing purposes whether one has been convicted of a crime. When faced with a criminal charge one has the right to remain silent. When in the course of an employment or lisence application one is asked a question of public record, one withholds the truth at one's own risk.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    i refuse to believe its accidental, it just has to be on purpose. . .
    sorta lilke the serial numbers on weed eaters
    there are a lot of folks here who seem to be ignoring of how our legal system works...but that doesn't stop them from saying (hopefully unintended) falsehoods anyway
    I wish I could tell..

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  5. #75
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    When a person gets a permit or license to drive, they take a test proving they understand 1. how to do it, 2. that they know and understand user laws.

    At least in NJ, to use a commercial nail gun (and other tools) you have to take a quickie test to prove you understand user safety guidelines and how to use the thing.


    Why do we do this? Simple... you are dealing with objects, if used incorrectly, become dangerous to others in society.


    Now, according to the list of things one must do to obtain a permit for a gun, at least in my state, there is nothing but administrative paperwork to fill out, and fees to pay. Nowhere in the list of about 9 things to do, is there anything about proving you even understand that if loaded, and trigger pulled, bullet might just come out of the barrel.


    I don't personally understand why we are OK with passing a test to drive a car, but come up to opposition when it comes to passing a test to use a weapon???

    Some states will put breath locks on cars so that drunk people can't drive them. Eh... makes some sense right???

    Putting a lock on a trigger? OH HELL NO! Forget the hope of ever putting a breath lock on one (which given my own personal experience having seen people sit around chuggin beers and shooting at whatever they can find might not be such a bad idea)

    A gun, if respected and used correctly, is not inherently dangerous, though one misstep, and someone can die, be mamed, be screwed for life. So why is it we do not make sure people DO prove they know how to respect and use a gun properly before giving them passage to ownership? Sure, people still drive like a$$hats and ignore the rules of the road, but just think what it would be like if they had no reason to ever even KNOW the rules of the road! Are we to assume EVERYONE who gets a gun hunts, and gets their safety lesson there?
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  6. #76
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Putting a lock on a trigger violates the first and third rule of firearm safety. This is a specific complaint about this kind of lock; I think that firearms should be locked up, just not with trigger locks. I think that kind of lock invites an unintentional discharge from a firearm that is unknowingly loaded, both in attaching and removing the trigger lock.

    I urge you to advocate cable locks or chamber locks instead of trigger locks. (There are other, larger, more expensive locks that I also approve of.)

    "Trigger locks, NO!", indeed, but that is not disapproval of locking up firearms.
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  7. #77
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    trigger locks amount to a simplistic cure for a complicated problem
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by phillip allen View Post
    trigger locks amount to a simplistic non-cure for a complicated problem
    ftfy
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  9. #79
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Was thinking. How about a law that requires that all gun manufacturers and or resellers must include some kind of a locking device when they sell a gun? Maybe even require the manufacturer to include it in the packaging. If these devices are plentiful and available wouldn't owners be more inclined to use them?

    We hear of so many tragic accidents in the home were kids get ahold of guns and shoot themselves or someone else.

    We have laws that say that automobiles must have seat belts and airbags. Isn't this the same kind of safety thing we could legislate?
    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  10. #80
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by ccmanuals View Post
    Was thinking. How about a law that requires that all gun manufacturers and or resellers must include some kind of a locking device when they sell a gun? Maybe even require the manufacturer to include it in the packaging. If these devices are plentiful and available wouldn't owners be more inclined to use them?

    We hear of so many tragic accidents in the home were kids get ahold of guns and shoot themselves or someone else.

    We have laws that say that automobiles must have seat belts and airbags. Isn't this the same kind of safety thing we could legislate?
    The last two Marlin rifles I bought came with cable locks, not sure if it is already a law or not but the industry is already doing this, has been for several years. Not going to solve anything.
    Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business.
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  11. #81
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Don't you know, background checks was the first thing the Nazis did in 1933?

  12. #82
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by switters View Post
    The last two Marlin rifles I bought came with cable locks, not sure if it is already a law or not but the industry is already doing this, has been for several years. Not going to solve anything.
    Looks like just a few states have this law. Unless it's universal it would not be very effective.

    http://www.lawserver.com/maps/gun-sa...gger-lock-laws
    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  13. #83
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boater14 View Post
    Don't you know, background checks was the first thing the Nazis did in 1933?
    What's your point?
    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  14. #84
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boater14 View Post
    Don't you know, background checks was the first thing the Nazis did in 1933?
    Wow, 3 pages before the inevitable Nazi reference. What took you so long?
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    trigger locks amount to a simplistic cure for a complicated problem
    so what's your suggestions to addressing the gun violence problems in America? you shout everything down with some accusatory leftist bs, or whine about how Milo once **** on your 'gun safety' thread nine frikking years ago, but never a suggestion, ever. Are we to assume that you're content with the state of gun violence in America?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    so what's your suggestions to addressing the gun violence problems in America? you shout everything down with some accusatory leftist bs, or whine about how Milo once **** on your 'gun safety' thread nine frikking years ago, but never a suggestion, ever. Are we to assume that you're content with the state of gun violence in America?
    Good question. I'm not expecting a coherent answer.

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Trigger locks are hardly a simplistic cure. If used correctly, they severely cut down on accidental shootings. How exactly is that simplistic. No, they won't eliminate gun violence (good luck with that) but it would prevent a hell of a lot of accidents.
    Row, row, row your boat ...

  18. #88
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Mandatory firearms safety training in second grade.

    Mandatory single-shot .22 rifle training in third grade.

    Mandatory single-shot shotgun (.410) in fourth grade.

    Mandatory pump-action shotgun, and bolt and lever action rifle, in fifth grade.

    Mandatory handgun, revolver and semi-automatic, in sixth grade.

    Each county to have at least one 1,000 meter rifle range, and at least one 50 meter pistol range, free for public use at least three days a week, staffed by retired military shooting instructors.

    Military ammo available (5.56 and 7.62 rifle, 9 mm and .45 pistol) available free to citizens at those ranges, but it must be shot at the range, not taken elsewhere.

    You see (or maybe you don't) I think the primary cause of the "gun violence" problem is ignorance. I think that too many people think that firearms are magic wands, for good and evil. I want to change that ignorance.
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

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  19. #89
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    OK, so people will tout the founders as being brilliant is supposedly giving a right to bear arms YAY, but apparently these same people don't give them much credit in the creation of the govt...


    HELLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Our govt is set up so as to prevent the risk of running into a totalitarian dictator!!!! Comparing us to Cambodia? HOLY STUPID!!!!!! Ya, we are so at risk of a coup!!! And comparing a president to Hitler??? Ya, like a US president has any real power!


    I hate unrealistic comparrisons meant to instil some stupid reactionary fear. Pol Pot is not going to take over America kids! Hell, think about it. What size group would you need to bring about a coup on our govt??? reality folks, it's not really that bad a place to live

    Does anyone really think for one second that in the next 4 years Obama will somehow covert all power onto the president and become a dictator? ummm... errrrr, he can't get congress to do much of anything, but ya.... he will become the next hitler. Good golly!
    Row, row, row your boat ...

  20. #90
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by tizziec View Post
    Trigger locks are hardly a simplistic cure. If used correctly, they severely cut down on accidental shootings. How exactly is that simplistic. No, they won't eliminate gun violence (good luck with that) but it would prevent a hell of a lot of accidents.
    Actually, they cause accidents, because if the firearm is loaded and you try to put a trigger lock on the firearm, you are likely to discharge the firearm by pressing the lock against the trigger. Or when you remove it, likewise.

    I don't know if the trigger lock was invented by someone who really did not understand firearms, or someone who was actually trying to create more accidental discharges.

    Use some other kind of lock.
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

    Grieving love unsaid. | Tomorrow will fail someday. | Tell them today, OK?

  21. #91
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    Mandatory firearms safety training in second grade.

    Mandatory single-shot .22 rifle training in third grade.

    Mandatory single-shot shotgun (.410) in fourth grade.

    Mandatory pump-action shotgun, and bolt and lever action rifle, in fifth grade.

    Mandatory handgun, revolver and semi-automatic, in sixth grade.

    Each county to have at least one 1,000 meter rifle range, and at least one 50 meter pistol range, free for public use at least three days a week, staffed by retired military shooting instructors.

    Military ammo available (5.56 and 7.62 rifle, 9 mm and .45 pistol) available free to citizens at those ranges, but it must be shot at the range, not taken elsewhere.

    You see (or maybe you don't) I think the primary cause of the "gun violence" problem is ignorance. I think that too many people think that firearms are magic wands, for good and evil. I want to change that ignorance.

    God help me!!!! Since the age of, well any age, every kid I know has taken what can be shot, thrown or catapulted and put a cross hair on my arse and gone for it! I can't tell ya how many damn nerf darts has bounced off my butt cheeks! Ya, give them guns that shoot bullets!


    GAWDS even flashllights get aimed at me!

    Oh and ya, teaching KIDS always ends well... No boy has every used something in a way that ended with nutting himself or bottle rocket burns in precarious places
    Row, row, row your boat ...

  22. #92
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    Actually, they cause accidents, because if the firearm is loaded and you try to put a trigger lock on the firearm, you are likely to discharge the firearm by pressing the lock against the trigger. Or when you remove it, likewise.

    I don't know if the trigger lock was invented by someone who really did not understand firearms, or someone who was actually trying to create more accidental discharges.

    Use some other kind of lock.

    Ya, I did mention if used CORRECTLY... storing a loaded fire arm, with or without a trigger lock, would be using it INcorrectly!

    It was apparently invented by someone who was aware of basic firearm safety. Hell, in my house I was not allowed to put my stinking BB gun away till it was checked empty by an adult. If it wasn't empty when they checked, I lost privelages to use it
    Row, row, row your boat ...

  23. #93
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by ccmanuals View Post
    Was thinking. How about a law that requires that all gun manufacturers and or resellers must include some kind of a locking device when they sell a gun? Maybe even require the manufacturer to include it in the packaging. If these devices are plentiful and available wouldn't owners be more inclined to use them?

    We hear of so many tragic accidents in the home were kids get ahold of guns and shoot themselves or someone else.

    We have laws that say that automobiles must have seat belts and airbags. Isn't this the same kind of safety thing we could legislate?
    Some manufacturers have already done that. I have an S&W revolver and a Taurus revolver with built in locks. You can't tell the lock is there. It requires a small hex like key to operate. I don't use the locks, I lock the entire weapon up in a secure box.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Smart guns, they're here just not fully developed, but it won't help with all the wacko rightwing fascists running around with older guns demanding the second amendment be interpreted the way they want or else.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrleft8 View Post
    Are you a convicted felon Rod?
    "Are you a convicted felon Rod?" --Mrleft8.

    Just curious--what was the purpose of this question? I don't see any discussion in this thread justifying such a comment.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by tizziec View Post
    God help me!!!! Since the age of, well any age, every kid I know has taken what can be shot, thrown or catapulted and put a cross hair on my arse and gone for it! I can't tell ya how many damn nerf darts has bounced off my butt cheeks! Ya, give them guns that shoot bullets!


    GAWDS even flashllights get aimed at me!

    Oh and ya, teaching KIDS always ends well... No boy has every used something in a way that ended with nutting himself or bottle rocket burns in precarious places
    The goal (well, one of the goals) is to make firearms boring by the time they're teenagers and become crazy. "Go practice your pistol." "Oh, Dad, do I have to?"
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

    Grieving love unsaid. | Tomorrow will fail someday. | Tell them today, OK?

  27. #97
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by tizziec View Post
    Ya, I did mention if used CORRECTLY... storing a loaded fire arm, with or without a trigger lock, would be using it INcorrectly!

    It was apparently invented by someone who was aware of basic firearm safety. Hell, in my house I was not allowed to put my stinking BB gun away till it was checked empty by an adult. If it wasn't empty when they checked, I lost privelages to use it
    That's the accident that causes the discharge. You think it's empty, and BANG!

    The trigger lock doesn't know if the gun is loaded or not.
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

    Grieving love unsaid. | Tomorrow will fail someday. | Tell them today, OK?

  28. #98
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    As we play right into their hands, the financial sector still goes unregulated. The biggest threat to your way of life wasn't bin laden and isn't a nut with a gun....it's a young immoral banker in a suit. Right around the block is a 300k house foreclosed from under a pre school teacher and FedEx driver who couldn't make a downpayment. Is that smoke I smell??? Hand me my fiddle.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Coose View Post
    Quick pool on the guy who is holding the firefighters hostage.

    Is he holding them hostage with a:
    Hair Dryer
    utility knife
    a gun
    a poodle
    On the other hand, this coward picked firefighters to lure into his trap specificly because he knew they would not be armed.

    SUWANEE, Ga. (AP) — Police say a man who held firefighters hostage for hours in a suburban Atlanta home was heavily armed with a half-dozen guns, and told the firefighters that he targeted them so he wouldn't be shot.
    Ratus ratus bilgeous snipeous!

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  30. #100
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    The goal (well, one of the goals) is to make firearms boring by the time they're teenagers and become crazy. "Go practice your pistol." "Oh, Dad, do I have to?"
    that is EXACTLY what I did... it works
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    That's the accident that causes the discharge. You think it's empty, and BANG!

    The trigger lock doesn't know if the gun is loaded or not.
    What idiot puts their gun away loaded, or cleans it or locks it without properly checking it? If you can't handle that much, then frankly you should be allowed tohave agun. RESPONSIBILITY!!!!


    A gun doesn't know if a person is an idiot or not either, but it doesn't stop it from becoming a killing machine does it.

    A trigger lock keeps kids free from harm, relatively at least. My uncle hada gun in his sick drawer. as kids we took it out to look at everytime he went out. It was stored empty, open and with a big old pad lock through it. Had he not done that, hell yes it's likely my cuz nd I would have killed each other... we were dumb kids.
    Row, row, row your boat ...

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    The goal (well, one of the goals) is to make firearms boring by the time they're teenagers and become crazy. "Go practice your pistol." "Oh, Dad, do I have to?"
    hmmm I have yet to find the boy who EVER finds things that go BOOM boring! Girls... a bit different story, but just how much gun practice would it take to make a BOY bored with it??????? Hell, Iam lucky if I get out of the way when the grown men I know find a tin of black powder and start the home made fireworks! Same crap they did as kids... big booms always give them the giggles
    Row, row, row your boat ...

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by tizziec View Post
    hmmm I have yet to find the boy who EVER finds things that go BOOM boring! Girls... a bit different story, but just how much gun practice would it take to make a BOY bored with it??????? Hell, Iam lucky if I get out of the way when the grown men I know find a tin of black powder and start the home made fireworks! Same crap they did as kids... big booms always give them the giggles
    believe me... it worked... two boys and a girl

    my oldest son had to come to me in his late twenties to show him how to load the rifle his wife bought him
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Allen View Post
    believe me... it worked... two boys and a girl

    my oldest son had to come to me in his late twenties to show him how to load the rifle his wife bought him
    I hope you told him to sell it, that's embarrassing.

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    Default Re: So, what's wrong with universal background checks for gun buyers?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogdog View Post
    I hope you told him to sell it, that's embarrassing.
    he just didn't have any interest in rifles... as was my plan. I guess it shows that he is Colorado's top pic for writing gun laws though There is nothing wrong with being ignorant of one thing or another... until the ignorant attempt to rule by their ignorance... we have lots of that these days. "Once the bullets in the magazine/clip are used up, no one will be able to buy more magazines/clips with bullets in them"
    (it lookks like the ignorant leading the stupid to me)
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

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