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Thread: A celebration of small schooners

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Cimba





    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    The Cimba book I read did not have pictures, I read the description of the downwind sail buut never understood it until 2 minutes ago. Must have been a chafe nightmare, but nice to have. What would one call it "Coursaker" "gallanteacher".

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    this Cowhorn is one of my favorite boats of all time for pretty.
    Penelope , built in st Thomas, she was lightly rigged for racing in the islands.
    wrecked in a hurricane 2 years ago . Gawd what a handsome hunk of ketch in front of her!
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 03-18-2017 at 12:05 PM.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    and, what's your opinion of Bolger's Saint Valery?

    I've never seen the boat or sailed her, so I know nothing. But Phil B., Susanne, and Dan Segal wrote about her in WoodenBoat #157.

    I admire the rig in general, the simplicity is appealing. Her mast tabernacles appear huge for some reason. I don't know if the "moose shoulders" in the sheer forward are intentional, that shape is seen in some French fishing vessels. But I would have run a batten and cut those humps out of there, giving her a more delicate sheer. Dan reports that at anything closer than about 45 degrees off the wind, the main will stall even though the fore keeps pulling.......this may be an argument for an overlapping foresail, as was seen in America, Toadstool, and Iren's fusion schooner........

    Dan also reports that she will sail herself for long periods on almost any point of sail!! That is just one of the benefits of the split rig, and that coupled with her shallow draft make the boat an attractive cruiser. The lack of on deck shelter limits her use longer term, but for weekends or summer weeks, she would be great.
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Another Ted Brewer schooner, Grand Banks 28.

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    If you can, possibly, hitch a ride on a Schooner boat like Edson B. Shock's "Lucky Star", John Alden's "Wanderlure II" or Starling Burgess's "Rose of Sharon" to name a few, hopefully you will, be lucky enough to have a schooner wind to take you to a new level of enjoyment under sail. Then, perhaps, you may also be able to go out on a schooner that is under thirty feet in length and be able to experieince, first hand, the difference between the long and the short of it. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting.
    Jay

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    St. Valery was modelled after the French luggers, so the resemblance to them is intentional. However, Devlin did not build her strictly to Bolger's drawings, he changed and raised the sheer by a bit to make the cabin structure completely "raised deck" and to give a bit of rail all around the deck edge.
    The original drawings show a better looking boat, the sheer is not quite so high sided, and is more pleasing, at least to my eye.

    Bob
    ----

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    I've never seen the boat or sailed her, so I know nothing. But Phil B., Susanne, and Dan Segal wrote about her in WoodenBoat #157.

    I admire the rig in general, the simplicity is appealing. Her mast tabernacles appear huge for some reason. I don't know if the "moose shoulders" in the sheer forward are intentional, that shape is seen in some French fishing vessels. But I would have run a batten and cut those humps out of there, giving her a more delicate sheer. Dan reports that at anything closer than about 45 degrees off the wind, the main will stall even though the fore keeps pulling.......this may be an argument for an overlapping foresail, as was seen in America, Toadstool, and Iren's fusion schooner........

    Dan also reports that she will sail herself for long periods on almost any point of sail!! That is just one of the benefits of the split rig, and that coupled with her shallow draft make the boat an attractive cruiser. The lack of on deck shelter limits her use longer term, but for weekends or summer weeks, she would be great.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Phil Bolger, looked so much like Nathanial Herreshoff that when he dressed in Herreshoff's style of clothing he could pass off as a clone of NGH. He did design some very beautiful boats that were built by traditional methods of construction. When he began to create some of his more famous plywood boats, some of which were an insult to the eye of the sailor, he did something that many of his affectionados are unaware of, he was laffing up his sleeve at certain forms of modern design, modern materials and those who advocate their use. And that gentlemen is the truth!
    Even so, I see him as a genious.
    Jay

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    A couple more small schooners, I snapped these pics in Mystic last summer. I believe these are both Ralph Stanley boats. Lots of friendship sloop traits. They look like an awful lot of fun.







    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Here's the other one.

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Of the two I like Equinox more. She's jauntier and her lower freeboard is more appealing to me. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    The Cimba book I read did not have pictures, I read the description of the downwind sail buut never understood it until 2 minutes ago. Must have been a chafe nightmare, but nice to have. What would one call it "Coursaker" "gallanteacher".
    Can you tell us the title of that book, Gareth. I wouldn't mind fooling around with a sail like that.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Quote Originally Posted by outofthenorm View Post
    Can you tell us the title of that book, Gareth. I wouldn't mind fooling around with a sail like that.
    It was a borrowed book and the person I borrowed it from is no longer with us. I looked on Amazon and I am sure it was this http://www.amazon.com/Saga-Cimba-Ric...keywords=cimba I cannot recall the book giving a good description, which is why I appreciated the picture.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    post #47 seems to be a little Tancook whaler. With those sharp ends they are quite small boats for their length.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Quote Originally Posted by Thad View Post
    post #47 seems to be a little Tancook whaler. With those sharp ends they are quite small boats for their length.
    Same boat as post #33
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  17. #52
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Tether



    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    another pretty small schooner
    does anybody recognize her?

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    another pretty small schooner
    does anybody recognize her?

    She's a Susan but a bit different......
    ___________________________________
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  20. #55
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    One comment as to the design of the Tancook Whaler is that, while the boats were and are quite popular, they do offer some advantages and disadvantages in practicality by nature of their design. They first came into vogue at the turn of the last century as local fishing craft on the East Coast and Nova Scotia.
    All manner of sizes of this design have been made since their first inception. I remember one being built here in California, when I was in grammar school that was nearly sixty feet in length on deck and built of steel. They are pretty to the eye and smart sailors in light to moderate airs but, unless loaded down with fish, cargo or added outside ballast they can become notably tender when the wind pipes up. This is due to their lack of stability of hull form. In fact, a Tancook Whaler needs to be reefed sooner than many normal vessels of their size and displacement do as a result of the steep deadrise, slab sided characteristics of their sections. The canoe stern is a plus which provides reserve buoyancy while also, effectively, creating a longer waterline than would a transom stern. Although most boats of this design are rigged as schooners, I would suspect that they would be more practical and easier to manage if rigged as ketches. The boats while very attractive and classic in appearance, are not as efficient under sail as they should or could be, the main reason being the need for heavy ballasting to compensate for the slack bilge design which also creates annoying changes in helm balance as they heel excessively in a seaway.
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 06-03-2014 at 07:06 PM.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Those two Tancook whalers (#33 and #47) appear to be the very same boat. Change the hull color and add a new set of sails.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Can't find my Jersey Lily photos but I see she's for sale again in asia somewhere




    http://leemarine.com/boats_for_sale....cate=&de=90729

    sails really well ,that one.

    42 ft ? yeah right... don't you just love broker speak.

    I see you found her, Paul.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Lots of nice schooners on this thread but no pics of my favorite small schooner - Ralph Stanley's Dorothy Elizabeth:




  25. #60
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Wasn't she up for sale not too long ago?
    Steve

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  26. #61
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    The larger Tancook Whaler:






  27. #62
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Peter Van Dine designed (and subsequently built and sold) a pair of schooner rigged Tancook Whaler's starting in 1972-73. They were offered at 25'6" LOA or 35'4". The picture below is of the smaller version. These were production glass boats. Her waterline length is 20', beam 6'4", draft 2'10", sail area 301 sq. ft., Displacement 3660 pounds with 1600 pounds of ballast. As mentioned by Jay above, the danger of heavily ballasted open boats cannot be overemphasized....They Sink!

    Peter Van Dine made more than 2. however there was only one of the 35's made. I saw it on the chesapeake a few years ago and she was gorgeous.
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  28. #63
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    The Vernon Langille is of wood; if memory serves, she was built by the Apprenticeshop, not sure of the date.



  29. #64
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    I do not believe small schooners don't work. Some small ones are finished off to resemble small trading schooners. Not generally successful. But a small two masted boat with everything properly proportioned works just fine. Nobody makes that claim about ketches unless they are just prejudiced against boats with more than one mast. I have sailed couple of small Atkin's schooners once each, and Bill Gardens Toadstool once in light winds, ( I also sailed along side a number of times, that was a slippery little boat). I sailed a bit on a near sister of the legendary Cimba.
    Whimbrel could almost be considered a small schooner. The forward mast is taller, so she is referred to as a ketch, but the mizzen is actually very slightly larger than the main. This rig and these proportions are really very good for a cruising boat.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    another small one..



    and..



    .

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    and another one

    chappelle sharpie schooner

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    and another one

    chappelle sharpie schooner

    Actually I think that is one of Thomas Claphams designs

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Schooner Munteyn Top

    From Boatbuilding, page 56, Plate 2. Lines of a 36-Foot Modified Sharpie

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: A celebration of small schooners

    I changed the name of this thread at PP's request

  35. #70
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    Default Re: A celebration of small schooners



    Is a Schooner a short handed dipping lug? Do they generate the same/ more or less power?

    I guess with the aft boom you can get more sail area out without sheeting angle considerations for a heavier boat.

    The old timers remark that dipping lugs lifted the boat out the water a bit and held them with great affection. Anything similar with schooners with a split plan?

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