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Thread: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

  1. #1
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    Default The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Maybe I am too euphoric about my new design but I think it is really something special. A small open solo canoe made of one sheet of 4mm okume plywood.

    I have already designed and built another one sheet canoe (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...noe&highlight=) I am very fond of. I use it regularly and one time even made a trip covering a distance of 30km. I was thinking for a canoe made of one sheet it is almost the best design possible and there is no room for improvement.

    But now almost by accident I came up with this new one. As a long time project I am working on the concept of a collapsible hard shell 15’ canoe covered by a thin PVC skin. It’s my take on the folded plywood technique as for example used for B&B Yacht Designs’ Moccasin Canoe or Mark Pettingill’s Sweet Dream Canoe.
    When I tried to find a clever layout for the panels I detected a perfect arrangement for a small version of this design using only one plywood sheet.



    After building several paper models and a 1:10 scale wooden model (by now a common practice in my design process) and comparing a 3D computer model with the one of the older design I can tell that the new one is superior in almost every aspect.







    In the relevant speed range it has less resistance, it is more stable and should be an easier build because of the simple panel layout. At least in my opinion it is an adequate small solo canoe in it’s own right in spite of the restrictions of the one sheet concept and quite handsome too.

    Building a collapsible version of the new one sheet design will be a perfect test of my considerations before I continue working on the 15’ canoe.

    In my area the only available okume plywood sheet is slightly longer (250x122cm) than the “standard” sheet (244x122cm) so my build will be longer by at 2.4% compared to the standard version.



    Length: 367cm (12’)
    Beam: 71cm (28”)
    Waterline Length: 359cm (11’ 9”)
    Waterline Beam: 61cm (24”)
    Design Displacement: 100kg (222 lbs)
    Draft: 12.2cm (4 “)
    Wetted Area: 1.75m^2
    Surface Area: 2.97m^2
    Approx. Bare Boat Weight: 12kg
    Prismatic Coeff. : 0.54
    Block Coeff.: 0.38
    Bow/Stern Hight: 37cm (14 ”)
    Midship Depth: 25.4cm (10”)
    Last edited by flo-mo; 01-20-2013 at 05:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Amazing!!

    Is there enough ply left for butt blocks? How exactly do the pieces go together? I mean I can see where each part goes, but in what order do you connect them?

    John

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Congratulations

    I myself am fascinated to simplify boat building this way.

    For such a small boat, I would prefer to have a transom. This would provide a more easily driven boat.
    Also, I would choose a trapezoidal bottom. It would be a stronger and more stable boat.
    The attached link shows more about what I mean.

    js

    http://www.sassdesign.net/Design%20o...%20rowboat.pdf

  4. #4
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    I am impressed.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Nice! - that's the first one sheeter I feel tempted to build. not that I need or even want a canoe, but just because of the brag factor

  6. #6
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    I adore this little boat! AND I just happen to have one sheet of 4mm okoume plywood on hand. Will you please publish the offsets? (I must say, it is noble of you to publish your work gratis on the internet.)

  7. #7
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Flo Mo,

    I think you`ve done it!

    I don`t see how anybody could get better usage out of ONE SHEET of plywood and still maintain an attractive and useable shape, she really is a little beauty!

    Thanks for taking the time to share it, are you going to build it full-size?


    Greetings from a VERY icey (freezing rain) Germany,

    Alan

  8. #8
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    What you have come up with is very similar to a design called "Sweet Dream". The designer, Marc Pettingill, has written a how-to book explaining his method.
    "Building Sweet Dream", 1996, Tiller Publishing, ISBN 1888671-03-3
    Of course Pentingill uses two sheets of ply so his nestings are not so cramped and there is plenty of excess to make other necessary parts.
    If you use 4mm plywood the most difficult part is making the bends necessary to form the stem sections without breakage.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyahoga Chuck View Post
    What you have come up with is very similar to a design called "Sweet Dream". The designer, Marc Pettingill, has written a how-to book explaining his method.
    "Building Sweet Dream", 1996, Tiller Publishing, ISBN 1888671-03-3
    Of course Pentingill uses two sheets of ply so his nestings are not so cramped and there is plenty of excess to make other necessary parts.
    If you use 4mm plywood the most difficult part is making the bends necessary to form the stem sections without breakage.
    I guess you didn't take the time to read the OP?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Amazing! When time allows I would like to build one of your designs.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    FloMo, your designs continue to amaze, impress, and delight me. Thank you.
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

    Grieving love unsaid. | Tomorrow will fail someday. | Tell them today, OK?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    An other so cool canoe! I like your Little Guide, but your flywood could be my first build, if your tell us the offsets.

    Your cutting ply by knife methode is already tested building a rabbit home

    Greets Cello

  13. #13
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    fascinating, I'll be making one of these after my current build. One? I could be making four of them, the cost would not be a limiting factor.
    If at first you fail, you need to expand your sample size.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    I guess you didn't take the time to read the OP?
    I missed that.
    But I did read Pettingill's book and the technique is not a slam dunk even when efforts are made to get around the obvious obsticles like breakage. Trying to massage short radius bends into $70 a sheet plywood is not one of my favorite pastimes. I did it with 3 mm but would be afraid to try it with 4mm.
    I think Pettingill's technique has gone the way of "tortured plywood" which was an ingenius method also but too complicated for the average builder.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Flo-Mo,
    For those of us who build your little boats, how would you like to be credited as the designer? Simply as Flo-mo, or as Stefan ______ of Vienna?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    I'm just going to voice my hope for offsets or a PDF file too. I think you do amazing things both in design and nesting. It is remarkable how the two seem to positively influence each other- a really cool take on form following function. As always, thanks for sharing with us.
    "A man builds the best of himself into a boat- builds many of the memories of his ancestors." -Steinbeck

  17. #17
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Please show us what is possible with a 5 x 10-foot sheet of plywood.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit View Post
    Please show us what is possible with a 5 x 10-foot sheet of plywood.
    Same boat, 25% larger in linear dimensions. So (doing figures in my head, assuming angles stay the same) -->

    Length: 367cm (12) --> 15'
    Beam: 71cm (28) --> 35"
    Waterline Length: 359cm (11 9) --> 11' 8"
    Waterline Beam: 61cm (24) --> 30"
    Design Displacement: 100kg (222 lbs)
    Draft: 12.2cm (4 ) -->6.25"
    Wetted Area: 1.75m^2
    Surface Area: 2.97m^2
    Approx. Bare Boat Weight: 12kg
    Prismatic Coeff. : 0.54
    Block Coeff.: 0.38
    Bow/Stern Hight: 37cm (14 ) --> 18"
    Midship Depth: 25.4cm (10) --> 12.5"

    I'm not sure 4mm would be appropriate for the larger craft.
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

    Grieving love unsaid. | Tomorrow will fail someday. | Tell them today, OK?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    I'm not sure 4mm would be appropriate for the larger craft.
    One of the limitations on his style of constuction is the maximum thickness of ply that can be used and still create those hard bends near the stems. The next size up is 6mm. Six mm Okoume is five veneers and rather unyealding to short radius bends.
    Last edited by Cuyahoga Chuck; 04-13-2013 at 01:05 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Thank you all for your comments especially Cuyahoga Chuck for his critical annotations.

    I was so elated about my design that I could not resist to start a thread. It would have been wiser to build a prototype before presenting the design.
    So the answers to your questions and the statements regarding possible concerns were more profound and not just assumptions.

    Nonetheless I will try to do my best:

    Hesp:
    Is there enough ply left for butt blocks? How exactly do the pieces go together? I mean I can see where each part goes, but in what order do you connect them?

    Butt blocks are the easiest way to join the panels but you will need extra plywood. I would prefer glass reinforced butt joints. They are more work but I like the clean look.

    Either way the pieces would go together in the following order:

    First these joints are made with the panels lying flat which should not be too difficult.

    For the remaining joint it is necessary to bend the panels. With the flexibility of the 4mm plywood alignment with a butt block should be easy.
    It will be tricky to achieve a proper glass reinforced butt joint but I think it should be doable.

    After succeeding in making the joints you have the two halves of the hull which to some extent are already pre-bent. Then you can connect the halves and also close the gap along the chine by stitching them together or connect them with duct tape as I would prefer to do.

    Difficult to describe - hopefully easier to do.

    ThorBue:
    Nice! - that's the first one sheeter I feel tempted to build. not that I need or even want a canoe, but just because of the brag factor
    I have to confess that the brag factor is part of what's driving me to make threads about my designs.

    Rob Hazard:
    Will you please publish the offsets?

    Canoe:

    Thanks for taking the time to share it, are you going to build it full-size?
    Soon I will start to build the boat but as I mentioned before I plan to make it collapsible and will use 0.5mm PVC pond liner for the skin. It’s an experiment and although I think it should work fine the proof will be in the build.
    Assembly will be different compared to a stitch and glue version but the process of cutting the panels is the same. The hull shape should also be identical for either build.

    Rob Hazard:
    Flo-Mo,
    For those of us who build your little boats, how would you like to be credited as the designer? Simply as Flo-mo, or as Stefan ______ of Vienna?
    That's not so important but Flo-Mo is ok. I think I am a little paranoid about the internet and do not want to show my full name but you can contact me via PM if you wish to.

    spirit
    Please show us what is possible with a 5 x 10-foot sheet of plywood
    Thank you Htom for answering and converting the numbers.

    Please mind the given numbers are for the one sheet boat made of the sheet I am going to use. Its dimensions are 250x122cm (8’ 2 3/8“x4’) so it is longer by 6cm (2 3/8”) respectively the “standard” version of the boat is shorter by 2.4%.

    Using a 5’x10’ sheet means the boat will be 25% larger as Htom already mentioned. The thickness of the plywood should still be 4mm exactly for the reasons stated by Cuyahoga Chuck.

    If you have a look at the B&B Yacht Designs website you will see there are Moccasin designs in various sizes. They all use 4mm plywood with the largest one over 15 feet length. As far as I understand for this design they use a second layer of 4mm plywood to double most of the bottom making it very stiff and strong. This is possible because the bottom panel is made of one piece that gets bent into a shallow U-shape in the process of assembly.

    For various reasons I choose to use a V-shaped bottom.

    At the chine the structure is reasonable strong. The softest/weakest area of the bottom panel will be amidships where the span between the chine for the 4’x8’ version is at a maximum of 28.5cm. I think even without reinforcement (glassing) it will be strong enough to resist oil-canning.

    For the 5’x10’ version the span is 35.6cm while the thickness of the plywood stays the same at 4mm. I think it will be absolutely necessary to glass the bottom inside and outside with at least 6oz. glass.

    Aside from that for a 5’x10’ version everything else should be more or less the same as for the 4’x8’ version.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Flo-Mo,
    You have some very interesting designs. I have a few sheets of 3mm okume that were intended for a Stillwater Dusk, but may wind up as your one sheet wonder.

    I mention Stillwater because you may not be aware of them and seem to have an interest in persuading plywood. They have come up with a few very nice tortured plywood designs that have a lot more contour than any other TP designs that I've seen.

    I built a Dusk for my wife because it is very light (28lb.) and she can easily lift it onto the car and carry it. It is fast for its size. The bright 'shear streak' on the boat in the picture is a 3" wide doubler of 3mm ply. Between the curvature, doubler and the 3oz glass sheathing, it is quite rigid for a 3mm thickness.
    sbduskend-2.GIF

  22. #22
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    MN DAve, those Stillwater designs are interesting indeed. Do you have any photos of your build?

    Here are renderings of the 5'x10' and 4'x8' one sheeters side by side:




  23. #23
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?


  24. #24
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Wow, that larger sheet makes a BIG difference!
    "A man builds the best of himself into a boat- builds many of the memories of his ancestors." -Steinbeck

  25. #25
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Quote Originally Posted by 457277 View Post
    Congratulations

    I myself am fascinated to simplify boat building this way.

    For such a small boat, I would prefer to have a transom. This would provide a more easily driven boat.
    Also, I would choose a trapezoidal bottom. It would be a stronger and more stable boat.
    The attached link shows more about what I mean.

    js

    http://www.sassdesign.net/Design%20o...%20rowboat.pdf
    WoW! 457 very nice design.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    If the design "grows" so well with the 10 x 5 sheet, does it also shrink well? If you were to use a quarter sheet, 4 x 2 the size when assembled would be 6' long and you would have a very nice outrigger float in your hands. Decked over of course. Two of these either side of the 10 x 5 version and you would have the makings of a very nice lightweight trimaran that uses only 1 large sheet and 1/2 a standard sheet for the hulls! The more for strengthening and decking. Perhaps just one float to make a super paddling proa.

    A question on cutting out. If a japanese saw is used to cut the straight lines with miminal waste, how do you cut the curves? Very thin jigsaw blade or stanley knife?

    Brian

  27. #27
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Brian, a good Japanese saw will cut all the gentle curves in this design. The R15 curves could be cut with a number of bites and finished off with a file. Not as elegant as the flo-mo use of a knife but certainly achievable. What an interesting idea for building a trimaran !

    Cheers - John

  28. #28
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    This is wonderful new outrigger canoe by Solway Dory that shows what might be possible. More about their new boat and building it here http://www.facebook.com/pages/Solway...172422?fref=ts



    Brian

  29. #29
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    FloMo, thanks for describing the sequence. The first boat I designed and built (a long, long time ago) used flat sheets with a vee cut out to produce shape. What I found was that the transition from angled hull to round was "difficult" and produced a stress point. However, you do seem to have put this transition point where the hull side is starting to flatten out.

    Potomac. Yes 10x5 does produce bigger and maybe more useable boat, but a 10x5 sheet is over 50% bigger than a 8x4 sheet and costs twice as much (assuming you move up from 4mm to 5mm which I'd have to if using my local supplier [the boat would be 60% heavier]). Even so, at 120 -- Bargain!

    John

  30. #30
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    Looks like a great little canoe, I've got some materials from the local produce store and should be able to knock it out in a week or two by the looks of it.

    I'll start a build log when I'm ready and let you know how it goes.

    Great design, thankyou very much flo-mo!

    - boingk

  31. #31
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    flo mo

    you really are a genius

    Dylan

  32. #32
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    Default

    I found this forum as someone had linked to this design. Has anyone tried building one yet?

    Looks like a candidate for my first build.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    If you are looking for some insight there is a how-to book, "Building Sweet Dream" by Pettingill which uses a similar approach to build several ultralight canoes. But they do require two sheets of plywood.

  34. #34
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    Default

    Thanks. I'll have a look for that one.

    I've read plenty on the build method but never seen a one sheet canoe of this size or simplicity before. That's why it appeals.

    Most of what I've been considering use at least 2 if not 3 sheets and have a number of planks each side. Seems like this design has less to screw up during the build but still manages not to look like a pointy ended coffin once finished!!!

  35. #35
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    Default Re: The Ultimate One Sheet Boat?

    The book would be a good time killer while you wait. In the end no one on the water will know if your boat contains one sheet or two.
    Last edited by Cuyahoga Chuck; 04-13-2013 at 08:52 PM.

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