Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 38

Thread: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

  1. #1

    Default Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    I have been looking around for a Whitehall plan. In my opinion they are the most beautiful of all wooden rowing craft. If you have any suggested reading please propose that as well. It has to be lapstrake. I want to build it traditional or glued lapstrake. I know traditional will weigh a fair amount more. Will be used solely for rowing as I know some designs have sail.

    I appreciate anyone pointing me in the right direction or suggesting some models. I am building a new house and will have my boat shop in april. I want to start studying plans, methods and build a model in the meantime.

    I was going to attempt the Redwing 18 for my next build but some of the forum people might have unintentionally changed my course. I kept hearing two things in these "proposed build" threads. Firstly; be realistic about what your intended use is. In my case I was dreaming of the family of four spending whole days on that mini camp cruiser (we already have a fiberglass boat for that. Secondly and more influentially was "build what you love and you will love what you build". These whitewalls are the boats that make my heart race.

    So the request is simple. Send me your whitehall ideas. Thanks and I look forward to seeing your suggestions. Boat will kept on a trailer.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Salt Spring Island, BC
    Posts
    7,894

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    It's all right here. They really are beautiful, and I think glue lap ply is definitely the way to go.

    http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Sear...ic+small+craft

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Padanaram, MA USA
    Posts
    9,965

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Another good source is Ben Fuller's book, 87 Boat Designs Available from Our hosts.
    Plans available from Mystic Seaport.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,753

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    I don't think it is technically a Whitehall but I feel that attraction about Oughtred's Acorn.
    Last edited by davebrown; 12-15-2012 at 09:06 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Galveston Bay
    Posts
    968

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    +1 on John Gardner's book. Another option is this one, also available from our sponsor.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Glasgow Scotland
    Posts
    433

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    John Gardners book is a good read, and I agree with you on the whitehalls, nice boat although one or two of the wherries look as good, lines for both in Johns book to compare?? The Acorn in its various lengths is a also a lovely boat, however I am biased as we have built two of Iains Acorns in the past.
    Happiness is a Trawler conversion in a warm part of the Globe!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    47°04' 45'' N 8°26' 05'' E
    Posts
    792

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    You might also like some of the wherry/skiff types as well as they have "similar" form and looks. Walt Simmons of Duck Trap has a variety of plans. Here's the summary chart:



    Links to these boats on this Wherries page. He has also published a book on the topic.

    The 19' Newfoundland Trap Skiff:






    14' Duck Trap Wherry:




    a 12' Rhodes Wherry:

    "Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors". African Proverb

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    northern neck of virginia
    Posts
    1,039

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Weekender, You and I are on the same path. I've been wanting to start a whitehall type project for some time now. Without committing to any one particular plan, I decided to do a lot of homework/research. I've read everybook I could get my hands on from Chappelle, to Oughtrid, Culler, Hill, Brooks, museum collections, and, of course, done advanced searches here on the forum. Without a doubt, John Gardner's chapters on the origin of the whitehall and his 17' pulling boat are the definative works on the whitehall. You must read this.

    I had wanted to build in glued ply lapstrake for several different reasons. But the more I think about it, I'm not so sure. I didn't initially even want a true whitehall (now that I know what that means). But not wanting to reinvent the wheel I've come to the conclusion that nothing else will do. I've lofted Gardner's version and I like what I see.

    Thinking ahead to the nuts and bolts of the actual build, I'm not so keen on handling 17' long scarfed up pieces of thin flimsy plywood by myself. And then, after it's all planked up, having to add all those frames to the inside just to accomodate the thwart risers and such. And a "real" whitehall has boxed frame ends.

    I hate sanding, so a strip build is out of the question. The method Gardner describes of building upright starting with the 2nd plank down, carvel planking to the keel sure does make a lot of sense. But dogonit, I wanted a lapstrake rowboat. I don't want to 'glass over, or seal the plywood with 'pox. I know that my boat isn't going to live in a garage. One guy on here said his okume boat rotted in 10 yrs. I haven't priced the plywood or bought any epoxy lately. But I am not ruling out trad wh. cedar over oak, either. Now, how to set all those rivets by myself.......

    And just to give credit where credit is due, there are a lot of great looking "whitehalls" out there. The Hvalsoe 16 is not to be overlooked. Dave Gentry's SOF shenandoah whitehall is another. The only thing worse than not enough choices is too many!
    Last edited by Eddiebou; 12-16-2012 at 08:21 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    4,077

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    There are Whitehalls and whitehall shaped boats. True whitehalls are characterized by frames square to keel that are beveled, with floor timbers crossing the backbone to hold things together. But what we are talking about is the shape: relatively plumb stem, relatively vertical wine glass stern with a rising rabbet cut into deadwood and a straight rockerless keel. The wherry like Walt Simmons use a box stern. The OP is looking for a pure rowing type. Mystic's Bailey whitehall at 16'9" x 3'7" is certainly high on the list. It was built with a very early sliding seat incorporated into the interior. Perhaps the best of the type that I have rowed is DONOGHUE which was restored by Bob Baker and is in the collection at Mystic: 17'11" x 3'4". Bob's plans are now with Mystic. The Boston Ship chandlers model as drawn by Howard Chapelle at 16'9" x 4'5" is also a great choice. One question is number of rowers. If it will mostly be a single rower, 16' or so is pretty much max for best speed.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  10. #10

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Wow thanks so much. Eddie it's like you are reading my mind. I want soooooo bad just to build it traditional. Just like Hvalsoe builds his boats. There will be two rowers. I need to look into that Chapelle model I have not seen those lines yet. I will be ordering some books today. Keep the ideas coming.

    There are so many pretty boats out there. The chester yawl from CLC boats is nice but it does not meet enough of my needs. It needs to be lapstrake. But the Chester Yawl is a nice looking boat. If I was looking to build stitch and glue it would be my choice.
    http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/r...-boat-kit.html

  11. #11

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Also to the point some of the other posts made about similar boats... Yes I am drawn to the design of the Duck trap Wherrys, Lapstrake double enders and Hvalsoe's 16. However I fear that these boats "can" be rowed. I have never sailed and even though I would like to try I am not going to spend 2yrs building something that is not suited for my real use. It will be me by myself or me with wife and two kids on a lake or the rivers.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    northern neck of virginia
    Posts
    1,039

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Well, I don't particularly want to build traditionally, but it might just make more sense. My last 2 boats were solid wood carvel and I wanted to do something else. I want something I can put in the water on a whim and go. I don't want to have to caulk and putty, etc. I might want to leave it out in the weather for periods of time. I don't mean leaving it to fill up with leaves and rain over the winter, but certainly weeks will go by during the season when she'll be on her own, out in the summer sun and rain. I'll want to leave her in the saltwater for a week or more at a time.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,922

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Good for you, Weekender! You're doing it the right way, getting the boat that makes your heart sing!

    If you have a chance to go someplace like the CWB in Seattle and try out some Whitehalls and Wherries and the Hvalsoe and such before you start building one, I betcha you'll be able to really nail it down for what you prefer.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    24,449

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Weekender View Post
    It will be me by myself or me with wife and two kids on a lake or the rivers.
    This design isn't exactly the Whitehall shape and construction as described by Ben Fuller but it's glued-lapstrake, fast, light for the length, and versatile, especially for the uses you describe: http://www.brooksboatsdesigns.com/Br...peregrine.html
    “Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of those rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs."

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Eagan, Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    11,202

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    No one has mentioned Alaska yet; not really a Whitehall -- http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/build.htm
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

    Grieving love unsaid. | Tomorrow will fail someday. | Tell them today, OK?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    4,077

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    OP is interested in a rowing Whitehall. Alaska is much more boat than needed. For rowing mostly solo the 14 to 16 foot standard whitehalls are about right. I lean to the longer.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Shubenacadie NS
    Posts
    5,253

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    John Gardner's book Building classic small craft has all you need. Table of offsets, some construction drawings and descriptions. My brother and I have been talking about that lately and I just looked it up in my copy of the book. He's got two chapters, one is a history of the whitehall, the other is a building chapter with the offsets etc. I'd take a look at it. I'm sure you could build from that book if you have a modicum of experience. I Hope Andrew decides to go ahead with it. I think the plans in the book are for a 17 foot version of it.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Eagan, Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    11,202

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    OP is interested in a rowing Whitehall. Alaska is much more boat than needed. For rowing mostly solo the 14 to 16 foot standard whitehalls are about right. I lean to the longer.
    I was agreeing until he said wife and two kids along.
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

    Grieving love unsaid. | Tomorrow will fail someday. | Tell them today, OK?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Yeah I hear you. That is why I always look to a wider boat for more room with the kids. The alaska is a nice boat. But not sure if it really grabs me with the looks. i want more than anything a "big" whitehalll built in lapstrake. I will find it eventually but I have ordered gardeners book and will keep looking. Part of me wonders how many options I would truly have if I knew how to sail. that newoundland trap skiff from duckworks is beautiful but it seems it may be a folly if I moved in that directions without sailing experience. But these sail/oar designs to me seam like a compromise and I am not looking for that (although the hvalsoe 16 may be the prettiest boat built/desinged). I want to build what I want. The problem is finding the right design...

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    4,077

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    While Bob Baker used to take his wife and two kids in Donoghue, it might be a little tittlish for most. The Boston Shipchandlers 16 foot lapstrake Whitehall is rock solid. It can be rowed from several places so you can trim her out with passengers or row her as a pair. The 14 footers are pretty crowded with 4.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  21. #21

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    I am talking about little kids. probably 4 and 2 by launching.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    24,449

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    “Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of those rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs."

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    464

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    By the time the kids are big enough to crowd the boat just hand the Whitehall off to them and you and the wife can buddy boat along in your new sail & oar...
    Last edited by Autonomous; 12-16-2012 at 05:35 PM.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    4,077

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    If people have access to the recent Bray/Fuller/ Vermiya editon of Mystic's Watercraft, there is a great photo of the Baker family in Donoghue, kids fore and aft, Pete and Bob on the oars. But I think for real young ones you need a whitehall with the traditional U shaped stern sheets so that an adult could hang out there along with the small people. Besides the one in Chapelle, another could candidate would be Azulykit a 15 footer collected by Bob who drew plans for same, said plans are also in the Mystic collection.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,753

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    The Duck Trap Wherry is an estimated 120 hour build!

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,922

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    That is an awfully optimistic estimate. I would bid closer to 300 hours with a professional grade finish.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,753

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    I would bid 9000 hours. I have to account for removing a board that I have glued to my forehead, and getting stitches after stepping on rakes that people leave in my boatshop. I spent an hour this afternoon looking for a chainsaw. How do you lose a chainsaw? I have, and did (it was stored under a Belsaw Planer, which is stored under a big tarp that only blows off when it is really windy). After I found the chainsaw, I opened my main toolbox (I have three or four, which means, like the Chinese man with two watches who never knows what time it is, that I never know which box anything is in, and in fact whatever I am looking for, like the chainsaw, is seldom ever in a box), and observed that someone had filled the toolbox up with water. Probably $300 worth of fasteners and handtools, all soaking for who knows how long in water. That ate up two hours, maybe more, and involved trying to unrust a whole bunch of shiny stuff. After I threw almost everything away, my just-turned-three- year- old swore on a coffee table book of Western Trains and Railways that it wasn't him. "Me don't know," he said. "Maybe Mom did it. Can I have beer?" So 9000 hours is realistic.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    801

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by davebrown View Post
    I would bid 9000 hours. I have to account for removing a board that I have glued to my forehead, and getting stitches after stepping on rakes that people leave in my boatshop. I spent an hour this afternoon looking for a chainsaw. How do you lose a chainsaw? I have, and did (it was stored under a Belsaw Planer, which is stored under a big tarp that only blows off when it is really windy). After I found the chainsaw, I opened my main toolbox (I have three or four, which means, like the Chinese man with two watches who never knows what time it is, that I never know which box anything is in, and in fact whatever I am looking for, like the chainsaw, is seldom ever in a box), and observed that someone had filled the toolbox up with water. Probably $300 worth of fasteners and handtools, all soaking for who knows how long in water. That ate up two hours, maybe more, and involved trying to unrust a whole bunch of shiny stuff. After I threw almost everything away, my just-turned-three- year- old swore on a coffee table book of Western Trains and Railways that it wasn't him. "Me don't know," he said. "Maybe Mom did it. Can I have beer?" So 9000 hours is realistic.
    Thank you, Dave. That made my whole night.
    "A man builds the best of himself into a boat- builds many of the memories of his ancestors." -Steinbeck

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,753

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Have you ever seen a German Shephard running at full gallop down the street under a big planer tarp?

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Shoreline, Washington
    Posts
    2,398

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Weekender View Post
    Also to the point some of the other posts made about similar boats... Yes I am drawn to the design of the Duck trap Wherrys, Lapstrake double enders and Hvalsoe's 16. However I fear that these boats "can" be rowed. I have never sailed and even though I would like to try I am not going to spend 2yrs building something that is not suited for my real use. It will be me by myself or me with wife and two kids on a lake or the rivers.
    Hear ya. But I gotta say, I love rowing that 16. Do you want a super slim greyhound to go out in with the wife and kids? Maybe so. But maybe there is something to be said for a wider stance and a little more form stability. Another way of asking, what feels most comfortable. Ben pulled up some interesting numbers. You can see that some of the whitehall models are quite narrow.

    The only blood and guts authentic Whitehall I've seen in person was carvel plank, heavy, complex, with an oak backbone, and was a perpetual leaker. It made no sense for a casual user. On the other hand I have seen a Shew and Burnhan 'Whitehall', rather lightly, and it seemed to me delicately built. I believe there are regional distinctions between the the Boston and New York types as well. As Ben said, there are whitehalls and there are whitehalls. It is a name sometimes carelessly bandied about, so do your homework.

    Best of luck particularly if you go tradtional. Round bottom will put a premium on your skill and materials. It could be a beautiful thing.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Eric,
    Thanks for replying. I have found also that the name whitehall gets used loosley. When Ben gave those beam numbers I instantly thought "maybe I am barking up the wrong tree". Your 16 has been at the top of my list for so long. It is funny bc my requested needs list of a lapstrake whitehall boat that is big enough for 2 small kids kind of knocks me out of true whitehall contention. It brings me right back to your 16. I want to attempt something traditional that will last the test of time and challenge me. I will email you and get the plans ordered.

    As I noted previously I have not sailed before so forgive me butchering things here. But I really liked the idea of the "spirit" rig. It seemed to give more room and also seemed for a novice it would be easier to learn on that. Your new plan show a "lug" rig I think which from all accounts handles better. Again I have no idea what I am talking about when it comes to sailing so forgive me. Even without the sailing option (which is nice too have some dual use and flexibilty for the future) your boat is wide enough for it to be used comfortably as a pure rowing craft.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Weekender; 12-17-2012 at 02:37 PM.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,922

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    I am happy to testify that Eric's HV16 rows superbly. It definitely rows easier than Rowan. I could totally see someone getting one and using it mostly just for rowing.

    But if the sailing bug gets you later, you'll be set up well for that too.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Albany, NY
    Posts
    1,794

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    If you want to go strictly traditional, I have a very detailed set of pen and ink drawings for this one that I built years ago. It's the Boston Ship Chandlers boat from "American Small Sailing Craft". The lines and offsets are very accurate.

    http://www.cruisingonstrider.us/Whitehall.htm





    The drawings are in my storage unit in Portland and I am cruising so I would have to have someone dig them out for you.
    Roger Long

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lindstrom, MN
    Posts
    3,150

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    There are 11 whitehall plans available from Mystic on this page:
    http://library.mysticseaport.org/col...mkind=research

    The Bailey plans are nicely detailed. The Donoghue does not seem to be one of the plans.

    There are some pics of the Bailey here:
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...tic-collection

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    4,077

    Default Re: Change of Heart... Looking for Whitehall Plans

    Roger, really great drawing of the Boston Shipchandlers. It can be built without centerboard. In thinking about this the OP can live without the Whitehall plumb stem the 16' ducktrap will be an easier build especially in glued lap. The champagne glass stern will plank up much easier than the wine glass, without having to backout or otherwise carve planks to shape. The wherry stern is also an easier build than the deadwood/ rabbet stern of the Whitehall.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •