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Thread: Help ID model sailing ship

  1. #1
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    Default Help ID model sailing ship

    Thanx for looking. Any info would be appreciated.










  2. #2
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    The flags are Danish and the rig looks late 17th early 18th century to me.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    Might be this one:



    Dronning Juliane Marie there is a model of her in a museum in Copenhagen, I learned this from Google.
    Yachting, the only sport where you get to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber and carpenter

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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    It looks like a kit model started by some one who knew what he was doing and finished by someone else without any plans. The rig is appalling and the structure of the rails of the head are all wrong.
    This gives you an idea of what they should look like.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    As Nick said, it was obviously a kit model that was started by somebody who at least was following some plan, albeit crudely, and then "rigged," to use the term loosely, by somebody who had no idea whatsoever about what they were doing. (Probably a young boy who had a lot of fun doing it!) You may wish to post this inquiry in the Model Ship World forum. http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/index.php People frequently do post such queries there and those guys usually can instantly tell one what the model is, what company made the kit and when.

    Although flying an 18th Century Danish naval ensign, the model appears quite similar to GŲtheborg, a sailing replica of an 18th century Swedish East Indiaman. It is the world's largest operational wooden sailing vessel. The original sank off Gothenburg, Sweden on 12 September 1745 while approaching its home harbour after returning from her third voyage to China.

    It appears the figureheads on both the Gotheberg and your model depict the "Gotheberg Lion," the symbol of the city.



    The stern galleries and ornamentation also appear similar.





    Obviously, Gotheborg was/is a heavily armed merchant vessel, not a naval vessel, per se. It is possible, however, that a kit manufacturer used the Gotheborg lines to produce a "generic" or otherwise inaccurate man-o-war of similar vintage, or intended to depict Gotheborg, but added the guns on the weather deck... or the replica vessel built recently omitted them. Such differences in details aren't at all uncomon in models or replica ships. As far as kit models go, at least until very recently, they are notoriously inaccurate. Everybody's seen kits promising "accurate models" of Colunbus' Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria, yet we know there is absolutely no historical record that could support any accurate model of these ships. It wasn't uncommon for a kit manufacturer to simply change the name and flag on a kit and sell it as an entirely different ship. It is possible the Gotheborg lines were used to portray a Danish naval vessel of similar vintage, or simply a "decorative" model that didn't portray any particular ship, but just looked like one. All of this is conjecture, though. Check in the Model Ship World forum and you'll probably get a response from somebody who has built the same kit!
    Last edited by Bob Cleek; 12-05-2012 at 01:12 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    Chances are it is highly bashed and poorly rigged version of Billing`s Norske Lowe



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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    Quote Originally Posted by outofthenorm View Post
    Chances are it is highly bashed and poorly rigged version of Billing`s Norske Lowe
    I concur! Good Call.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    You guys are great! I knew I could count on ya.
    I'll agree the rigging is tattered. I think she sailed off the edge of the earth (counter top) . There is evidence of mish mash repairs.

    I did not post all the photos but this shot looks like that last shot in outofthenorm's


    I'll do some googling but I am still interested in anything you have on the Norske Lowe or other thoughts.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    Interesting. It looks like the model in question has a misplaced lateen mizzen. The good model of the Norske Lowe has a spanker. But the model below shows the lateen, as do a couple of others in a Google search. I suspect that's correct, although it's not impossible that she was changed from one to the other in the course of her life.

    TXdoug - If you're going to fix it, please start by removing all the rigging and those top masts, which are on backwards.



  10. #10
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    Thanx Woxbox, I think I'll pass on the restore. I doubt I could rig the Catalina 22 that I crewed on in Jr. High. Heck if it took more than a couple of days it would be cheaper to order this one.
    http://nauticaleast.com/T196
    She is missing at least a dozen sails, masts on backerds and most of the paint. Then the rigging, no wonder she had a crew of 667 men.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    It looks like a kit model started by some one who knew what he was doing and finished by someone else without any plans. The rig is appalling and the structure of the rails of the head are all wrong.
    This gives you an idea of what they should look like.
    I failed to look closely at the pic. Apparently it depicts a battle scene. Any background?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    Quote Originally Posted by TXdoug View Post
    Thanx Woxbox, I think I'll pass on the restore. I doubt I could rig the Catalina 22 that I crewed on in Jr. High. Heck if it took more than a couple of days it would be cheaper to order this one.
    http://nauticaleast.com/T196
    She is missing at least a dozen sails, masts on backerds and most of the paint. Then the rigging, no wonder she had a crew of 667 men.
    I you were to re do the model you would also want to strip off the front ends of the wales were they run onto the gammon knee and refit them correctly. Then you will have to create the rails and frames of the head. Like this

    Quote Originally Posted by TXdoug View Post
    I failed to look closely at the pic. Apparently it depicts a battle scene. Any background?
    The image is
    Willem van de Velde The Elder


    ( Leiden 1611 - 1693 London )

    The unsuccesful attack of the English on a fleet of Dutch merchantmen at Bergen (Norway), 12 August 1665
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    Thanx for the link. cool

    I noticed that the brass nameplate on the models available are "Norske Love 1643 "
    Yet the history lists 1765 Nyolm Shipyard. It appears that 9 or 10 boats shared the name and I don't have a clear understanding of the duration of each.

    If I were to have a nameplate made, would it be more appropriate to go with the 1643 that came with the model or 1765, the more likely correct version.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    Now I'm realizing just how slow my brain has become. I was in Copenhagen a few years ago and took a photo of a stunning model of the Norske Love -- done in ivory. I made an ID this boat game of it - here's the link to the thread.



    So yes, there were several ships by this name. This was the first one, built in 1634.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    Her name should correctly be spelled Norske LÝve. Ý and o are two different letters in Danish.

    It means the Lion of Norway. The crowned lion figurehead is a symbol of Norway which was then under Danish rule. There were several warships by that name just as TXdoug and Woxbox mention but I do not either remember how many nor when each one was built and sunk or broken up.

    There are some serious doubts concerning the accuracy of some details of the model on Woxbox's picture. Apparently it was made by a skilled Dutch modelmaker but as he did not have the ship in front of him all the time some very Dutch looking details crept into it. Details that historicians doubt would be found on a Danish ship.
    Last edited by heimlaga; 12-10-2012 at 07:40 AM.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    Thanx again to all the WBFers for the responses.

    I left out my motives in the OP. The model belongs to a good customer. Recently purchased at auction. These nice people are always generous to us working folk over the holidays. My plan was to gift a small nameplate and some history.


    The Ivory Model is clearly a different boat. This makes me wonder if it would be more accurate to use the 1735 date instead of the 1643 of 1634 that went out with the model as sold.

    heimlaga, I will be sure that the engraver knows how the spelling should look. I have no Idea how to make the o/ letter on my American keyboard.
    Norm spelled it Lowe, would that be correct American translation?

    Cheers
    doug

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    To use the Ý symbol, you can select and copy it directly from this post, then paste it into a document. Another way - in MS Word, go to the "Insert" tab, then go to the symbol menu to find the Ý character and insert it from there.

    Cheers,

    David

    Quote Originally Posted by TXdoug View Post

    heimlaga, I will be sure that the engraver knows how the spelling should look. I have no Idea how to make the o/ letter on my American keyboard.
    Norm spelled it Lowe, would that be correct American translation?

    Cheers
    doug

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    More facts extracted from various Danish internet sites:

    The life span of the six mayor warships that went by the name Norske LÝve
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Help ID model sailing ship

    The Billings model depicts the fifth Norske LÝve which was built at the Nyholmen royal shipyard to design by master shipbuilder Knud Nielsen Benstrup. She was launched in 1735 and passed sea trials in 1737. She proved to be an unusually good sailer for her time so three more sister ships were built to the same drawings. She was never enganged in battle and was broken up in 1764.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

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